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TheMessiah

Lets Buff and not Nerf

what do you think?(read the topic first)  

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  1. 1. what do you think?(read the topic first)

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    • I dont like it
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    • I dont care
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Its obvious that the increase of players for this xmas event is not just because of the event-is for the fun gameply with the buffed weapons.So lets buff and not nerf the weapons in live game and i dont mean like the star to have that fire rate like in the event or anything exaggerated like that.Just buff all weapons so the game can be fun to play or make separate finan. and waterf. districts with buffed weapons and the rest to be the same like on normal mission districts(exp,money etc)Idk if gonna be like temporarily event or what but make something fun in this game till release of 2.1(which gonna take months for sure)

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1 hour ago, TheMessiah said:

Its obvious that the increase of players for this xmas event is not just because of the event-is for the fun gameply with the buffed weapons.So lets buff and not nerf the weapons in live game and i dont mean like the star to have that fire rate like in the event or anything exaggerated like that.Just buff all weapons so the game can be fun to play or make separate finan. and waterf. districts with buffed weapons and the rest to be the same like on normal mission districts(exp,money etc)Idk if gonna be like temporarily event or what but make something fun in this game till release of 2.1(which gonna take months for sure)

 

I don't see how that's going to work. They had weapon testing prototype district A and B previously, not like its going to bring players to play there..

 

Events are not really great and you wan't them to create something fun and new? while delaying 2.1?

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This is how power creep comes in. Look how the TTK has gotten lower and lower with time.

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map/mission rebalance is infinitely more important in this game atm, has been since they nerfed the HVR. 

yeh yeh "gotta work on the engine before doing that bro!!!1" but seriously every weapon change after the HVR nerf could be reverted and most people would either not care, or be happier about it. waterfront still has extremely cringe spots that are hell to play in, and financial has a couple of spots that need new entrances. also would be cool to hollow out some buildings, put some drop offs/captures in it, idk some cool new map stuff.

 

Edited by claude
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We've had this topic with the N-TEC, where a lot of people asked to buff all the other guns instead of nerfing that one.

But doing that would sooner or later result in a game where there's a ton of guns, but all play almost the same.

 

Not to mention the immense amount of work and testing this would require, instead of just fixing a small amount of problematic weapons.

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3 hours ago, GhosT said:

Not to mention the immense amount of work and testing this would require, instead of just fixing a small amount of problematic weapons.

considering orbit has already made major to minor changes for 30+ guns, idk if it would really be less work

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3 hours ago, GhosT said:

We've had this topic with the N-TEC, where a lot of people asked to buff all the other guns instead of nerfing that one.

But doing that would sooner or later result in a game where there's a ton of guns, but all play almost the same.

Yeah and how did them not listening go for them? We went from having more options that were viable in the meta to like 2-3 and with each weapon change patch the population dropped more and more and we're now here with people quitting left and right for good (in addition to all the other problems with the game and the engine upgrade progress). There is no way to achieve such balance between so many guns where all of them remain viable and used equally as much. Whats more important is to make the meta more diverse similarly to what it was before LO started fiddling with weapons.

 

We had a decently stable meta that people liked before LO started toying around with it. In their attempts to diversify it more, they made it tons more stale. JG became broken for years and still is, then PMG got buffed and OCA got nerfed so it was nothing but JG/PMG all day, every day on every tryhard every mission for months and months. Then we got an OCA re-buff but we lost the PMG in the process so now its JG/OCA instead. Meanwhile the shotguns have barely been touched since they completely butchered them originally where JG is an absolute monster and CSG feels like a nerf gun.

 

The N-TEC (the one gun that requires most skill in the whole game that is able to compete) got like 300 needless nerfs while other "GGEZ" weapons like OCA/PMG/JG got buffed to the point where you don't need any other weapons at all. The HVR got butchered and is now just broken at range but boring as hell to play. You know, at least it was fun before. OBIR got a huge nerf with the bolt timer on it which only makes the game slower and more boring. RFP got executed mercilessly, head clean off medieval style. That gun is dead in the water.

 

The only good things that have come out of LO's weapon balancing are things like the COBR-A and maybe the Misery which got buffed. All in all, their nerfs have been horrible to the point where they kill a gun and their buffs are meh at best with a couple good ones. Before any other changes happen, they should revert 90% of what they've done first and start from there. And most importantly, stop being so stubborn with reverting weapons. The game is on the brink of dying completely and potentially shutting down for good, they don't have the option to be stubborn and not listen to the right people anymore.

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I dont want to be toxic, But I will not purchase any more weapons, unless the nerfs are reversed. I will not Use any of the weapons that have been nerfed.  I believe that the Drop Off they tweeked, effected all my weapons, and or that the cheaters have a way to either shield themselves or stump my hit regs and drop off distance. 

 Why, cuz i get grey or white hits and the guy dont go down. So either LO nerfed the gun, or the cheater did. 

 Thats why U see me running around with a 38. its the only thing they havent nerfed n i no longer GAF

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To be honest, my main issues with LO's balancing is that they :

A) Do Opposite in-Category Balancing.
Good examples of this are the "Nerf PMG > Buff OCA" "Nerf CSG > Buff JG" and vice versa when the balancing issue lies with only one gun.
 

B) OverNerfing or OverBuffing.
For instance, the RFP getting a triple tweak(?) to its range, Damage and Ammo that effectively dumpstered the weapon.

Blowtorch taking a triple nerf to its Repair rate, Repair ammo and cooldown when the only thing that needed to be done was nerf the repair rate.

The AR97 Misery recoil reduction that pretty much made it a full auto Obeya CR762.

MedSpray toggling double heal rate that effectively allows Kevlar users to gain 500hp per tick.
 

C)Just Outright "Balancing" the wrong thing.
As in, Nerfing the PIG because of its combo ability with percs, when in reality the percs are the problem via the fact that they are part of most of the Sub-TTK combos. (JG Perc, HVR Perc, Pig Perc, etc)

Nerfing the Snubs pullout because of the JG combo when in reality the issue lies with the JG doing ridiculous amounts of damage per pellet to the point where it only needs to hit 8/12 pellets(66%) to cause a reliable 2 shot scenario when every other shotgun needs 80%+ Pellet hit.

 The AAEPD Volcano getting its Vehicle damage nerfed despite the literal name of the weapon being "Anti Armour Explosive Projectile Device" when the base complaint was the Player damage it dealt while also having a reliable 100m airburst with a 7.5m radius (Enough to do 300 damage if you're right at the 7.5m mark).


 

Its to the point where I have to question who is making these balancing decisions at LO and why are they still employed.
Either that or what the hell are the SPCT doing when it comes to testing and providing feedback regarding these "balancing acts".

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1 hour ago, RatedX said:

The AR97 Misery recoil reduction that pretty much made it a full auto Obeya CR762.

I'd agree with the most but that one is not true, imo Obeya with CJ3 is better than any AR97 setup.

Its about the Range... Obeya is always better @ long range where the AR97 is slightly better Close (if modded with CJ3). It's pretty balanced between n-tec and Obeya now...

That's just my opinion 🧐

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5 hours ago, Flaws said:

Yeah and how did them not listening go for them? We went from having more options that were viable in the meta to like 2-3 and with each weapon change patch the population dropped more and more and we're now here with people quitting left and right for good (in addition to all the other problems with the game and the engine upgrade progress). There is no way to achieve such balance between so many guns where all of them remain viable and used equally as much. Whats more important is to make the meta more diverse similarly to what it was before LO started fiddling with weapons.

 

We had a decently stable meta that people liked before LO started toying around with it. In their attempts to diversify it more, they made it tons more stale. JG became broken for years and still is, then PMG got buffed and OCA got nerfed so it was nothing but JG/PMG all day, every day on every tryhard every mission for months and months. Then we got an OCA re-buff but we lost the PMG in the process so now its JG/OCA instead. Meanwhile the shotguns have barely been touched since they completely butchered them originally where JG is an absolute monster and CSG feels like a nerf gun.

 

The N-TEC (the one gun that requires most skill in the whole game that is able to compete) got like 300 needless nerfs while other "GGEZ" weapons like OCA/PMG/JG got buffed to the point where you don't need any other weapons at all. The HVR got butchered and is now just broken at range but boring as hell to play. You know, at least it was fun before. OBIR got a huge nerf with the bolt timer on it which only makes the game slower and more boring. RFP got executed mercilessly, head clean off medieval style. That gun is dead in the water.

 

The only good things that have come out of LO's weapon balancing are things like the COBR-A and maybe the Misery which got buffed. All in all, their nerfs have been horrible to the point where they kill a gun and their buffs are meh at best with a couple good ones. Before any other changes happen, they should revert 90% of what they've done first and start from there. And most importantly, stop being so stubborn with reverting weapons. The game is on the brink of dying completely and potentially shutting down for good, they don't have the option to be stubborn and not listen to the right people anymore.

 

Buffing everything to the level of the N-TEC would be the exact opposite of making the meta more diverse.

 

I do agree that the weapon balance was near perfect before LO did all the balance changes.

 

Shotguns for example were the most balanced class before the LO shotgunning, with maybe the Shredder needing some love, And only a few weapons like the HVR, N-TEC, PMG and some others that needed changes.

Now roll back a little and undo all the unnecesary nerfs G1 did at one point with the introduction of curve mechanics that ruined many weapons like the NCR or FFA 'BullShark'.

That's what should've been done in my opinion, and not slightly touching a few weapons here and there. The AR-97 or R-2 for example received a couple tweaks to "buff" them, but their performance didn't change at all.

 

N-TEC is far from requiring much skill, it's literally just learning the tap fire rythm and you can spam it all day long up to marksman range.

The OCA received yet another unnecessary buff by G1, that I can agree with. However PMG or JG never received any actual buffs. And you do need other guns because they're solely CQC.

The HVR is problematic and probably won't ever be properly balanced as long as the Scout exists.

OBIR bolt timer was well needed for the insane damage output when combined with quickswitching. Though I'd rather adjust its damage values.

RFP is another prime example that received a buff it never needed and made it ridiculously overpowered, especially the Fang, which could've been called pay to win.

 

Still gotta say that APB became more enjoyable to play the way it is right now, I'd rather want pre-LO guns with slight adjustments though.

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1 hour ago, GhosT said:

N-TEC is far from requiring much skill, it's literally just learning the tap fire rythm and you can spam it all day long up to marksman range.

The OCA received yet another unnecessary buff by G1, that I can agree with. However PMG or JG never received any actual buffs. And you do need other guns because they're solely CQC.

The HVR is problematic and probably won't ever be properly balanced as long as the Scout exists.

OBIR bolt timer was well needed for the insane damage output when combined with quickswitching. Though I'd rather adjust its damage values.

RFP is another prime example that received a buff it never needed and made it ridiculously overpowered, especially the Fang, which could've been called pay to win.

 

Still gotta say that APB became more enjoyable to play the way it is right now, I'd rather want pre-LO guns with slight adjustments though.

I don't know if I feel like having the exact same discussion as we did a year ago. I disagree with most of what you've written and I think its the view of a player of lesser skill (nothing wrong with that), especially the N-TEC comment. I lack interest in the game nowadays to argue about these things again, especially considering that LO refuse to listen anyway. The population numbers speak for themselves.

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29 minutes ago, Flaws said:

I don't know if I feel like having the exact same discussion as we did a year ago. I disagree with most of what you've written and I think its the view of a player of lesser skill (nothing wrong with that), especially the N-TEC comment. I lack interest in the game nowadays to argue about these things again, especially considering that LO refuse to listen anyway. The population numbers speak for themselves.

 

I'm definitely not going to start argueing with you, don't worry. It'll get nowhere anyway, considering your questionable view on game health.

It's always funny when people think "lower skill level" is an argument, just shows how selfish someone thinks.

 

Either way, you can trust me on this - LO does listen and there's a bunch of community players sharing their thoughts and playtests upcoming changes, coming from all skill levels, even including "yours".

 

The population numbers go down because there hasn't been a single content update for almost a decade, only a few adjustments and smaller quality-of-life updates here and there like the trading system.

It has little to nothing to do with rebalancing things, maybe a handful of players who had their overperforming crutches taken away.

 

If anything, the fact that the game still has a playable playerbase after all this time just shows how big of a potential APB has.

Edited by GhosT

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First of all, there is no point to participate in any event since forever by now, because the card cheaters are top on each and every one of it more or less.

Edited by Vnight

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16 hours ago, GhosT said:

It's always funny when people think "lower skill level" is an argument, just shows how selfish someone thinks.

 

Either way, you can trust me on this - LO does listen and there's a bunch of community players sharing their thoughts and playtests upcoming changes, coming from all skill levels, even including "yours".

While the "Lower skill" argument might seem elitist, its a true variable when it comes to Weapon balancing.
 

Remember, people higher on the skill curve tend to have a better understanding on how to exploit game mechanics and weapon balance issues.
For instance, the N-tec jumpshooting, while you rarely if at all saw a low-mid gold use it , it was a very common and blatantly busted mechanic that High-golds were using and abusing to effectively make the n-tec extremely viable in CQC.
The old HVR QS mechanic is also a very good example.
 

If you balance a weapon for the highest level of play, it will be balanced for the lowest levels aswell. However, balancing a weapon to appease the lower end of the skill spectrum will turn the weapon into a monster on the hands of a higher skilled player.
 

LO listening to people on the lower end of the skill bracket is quite frankly, scary, in regards to future balancing to say the least.

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8 minutes ago, RatedX said:

While the "Lower skill" argument might seem elitist, its a true variable when it comes to Weapon balancing.
 

Remember, people higher on the skill curve tend to have a better understanding on how to exploit game mechanics and weapon balance issues.
For instance, the N-tec jumpshooting, while you rarely if at all saw a low-mid gold use it , it was a very common and blatantly busted mechanic that High-golds were using and abusing to effectively make the n-tec extremely viable in CQC.
The old HVR QS mechanic is also a very good example.
 

If you balance a weapon for the highest level of play, it will be balanced for the lowest levels aswell. However, balancing a weapon to appease the lower end of the skill spectrum will turn the weapon into a monster on the hands of a higher skilled player.
 

LO listening to people on the lower end of the skill bracket is quite frankly, scary, in regards to future balancing to say the least.

 

True, but there's also high skill players with questionable opinions about balance.

There's been plenty of those that refused to acknowledge that the N-TEC was overperforming and needed changes.

 

Balancing weapons with input from every skill level, data and as many players as possible is the best way to get an even playground.

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There's definitely a balance to strike between community feedback and professional analysis. At this point APB could sure use all the feedback it can get from all skill levels, but it

really it depends on the game design objectives and philosophies. 

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I still don't get what the issue with the N-TEC was. From my perspective it was a popular weapon due to the fact that it was the only free alternative AR available. You can't expect people to use other weapons when they're locked behind a paywall. The joker store was a joke for new players. You had to spend all your time in fightclub, pausing your contact progression. And what were you going to farm fightclub with if you don't have access to other ARs?

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45 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

I still don't get what the issue with the N-TEC was. From my perspective it was a popular weapon due to the fact that it was the only free alternative AR available. You can't expect people to use other weapons when they're locked behind a paywall. The joker store was a joke for new players. You had to spend all your time in fightclub, pausing your contact progression. And what were you going to farm fightclub with if you don't have access to other ARs?

Good players enjoy fun guns that require skill to use at maximum potential. Silvers don't like good players. That is the only problem 😛

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11 minutes ago, Flaws said:

Good players enjoy fun guns that require skill to use at maximum potential. Silvers don't like good players. That is the only problem 😛

good thing silvers are only balancing all the weapons then innit?

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I'm more concerned with bringing back P5/N5 killing sprees.  Game was dead to me when they took this away.  Me and my group haven't played since this was taken away.

 

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5 hours ago, LooneyTooonz said:

I'm more concerned with bringing back P5/N5 killing sprees.  Game was dead to me when they took this away.  Me and my group haven't played since this was taken away.

 

I think stuff like this is a big part of the problem, LO really don't understand the appeal of the game, by trying to sanitise it they are killing it.

 

APB didn't die , it was murdered......

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