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8 hours ago, Lucidy said:
Shotguns were actually fine before. Only reason they didn't work before was because of Server Performance, not the guns themselves.

Very easy fix. Upgrade APB's servers to AWS. If you don't know what AWS is, figure it out.
It's not the servers, it's the netcode. Matt Scott has stated this many times before.
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On 8/9/2018 at 6:45 PM, indi said:

Revert all changes to the game from 2013 onwards and go from there. Gamersfirst really, really fucked the game up over the past few years, and trying to balance around their terrible decisions is unlikely to yield positive results.

I'm radical, you seem radical, c'mon lets do it. Lets go back in time and make every weapon op lets bring back hvr from the past before all the nerfs, it will make things more interesting if every gun will be op then everybody will have a chance, i'm tired of nerfing lets just buff everything to balance things out. Also bring back scout jump shots aswell as old n-tec, oca, pmg, and every other gun and buff the current guns to match them. Buff everything, make it fun again.
 
 
Edited by 23k

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On 8/9/2018 at 7:28 PM, indi said:

There is other things G1 changed beyond just weapon balance. There are mods that were added like Car Detonator, Radar Tower, and Car Spawner that devolves the meta into racing around in max HP Pioneers/Espacios that in my opinion should be straight up removed from the game all together.

Car Surfer and Low Yields (Yes, I am complaining about Low Yields despite me being a frequent abuser of them) are also imbalanced in my opinion, reducing the grenades to 2 or just removing them all together wouldn't have a negative impact on the game. Car Surfer is just a meme tbh.

 
Before anything, I want to say that balance in general should not be a priority as we do not have any consistent way to test these things in the game currently. They should focus on creating a consistent pipeline through the engine upgrade. Then add a shooting range or sandbox for people to see damage numbers and bullet markers/tracers in real time, as well as training dummies.

The way I see it, all of the things you have mentioned are utilities in the game that are currently being treated as weapons more so than utilities. There should be no set of grenades in the game that can kill someone. For example, low yields should only do 300 damage to players, percs and concs are in a fine spot, and frag grenades need to do 45 damage each maintaining a bigger radius than low yields or percs.  Car surfer is a high risk/high reward type deal, so I do not see any issues there. 

When someone is cooking a grenade, the beep needs to be louder and their needs to be a visual cue for other players to see that this person is cooking a grenade. Maybe put a red triangle on the player's location on the mini map when they are cooking the grenade. This will help mitigate issues where 4 players can all throw a low yield at the same time to instantly kill someone; At least you will be able to see it coming. After talking to someone about this, a good idea was brought up to instead remove grenades as an item; Instead make them a 30 second cool down ability. This would add weight to the decision and create a need for more situational awareness. It would also fix the issue of resupplying grenade spam.

Car detonator definitely needs to be nerfed instead of removed. And I know people will disagree, but I think it can be a good utility to have in the game for certain situations. Make the timer shorter to detonation. In turn, increase the cool down, and make it more visually apparent when a car is counting down for detonation. Also make it so that the player has to hold down the detonator for 3+ seconds before it starts the countdown and give a visual/auditory cue that they are pressing this button. This will make someone THINK before they detonate it and give the opposition a chance to cancel the detonator.

However, I agree that radar tower and car spawner need to go. Normal spawning is already a problem in a lot of ways. I couldn't imagine how adding an additional factor to that system would make it any easier to work on. Radar tower is just dumb, basically free wall hacks; Needs to go or have severe penalties for being used.

So in general, the balance changes do not need to be drastic minus a few damage numbers and car detonator. But I think adding more visual and audio cues to the game will definitely help circumvent a lot of inevitable balance problems.

As far as weapon balance is concerned, they should revert changes like you said. I think weapons were in a much better spot back then. Then moving forward, they just need to tweak damage numbers and make sure weapons do not feel randomized.
  Edited by speee

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On 8/9/2018 at 4:16 PM, Lucidy said:

I'll make a list of things that should be how the game is.

Shotguns : Needed more time to balance, live build needs shotgun buffs to be reverted (Showtopper is w/e, all the others need more time before pushed to live build)
IR3: Revert the change no one asked for that crippled every single marksman and many preset modded guns. This was a bad way to change how things were fine beforehand.
Ntec was fine Post-2015 changes.
Carbine was fine Post-2015 changes.
Revert ATAC to the 2014 stats prior to it's buff.
Revert RFP and all its variants to it's stats prior to the buff (Back in 2016 or w/e).
HVR is still kind of annoying but more negligible now, so keep the current version, with possible tweaks in the future.
Misery is fine.
Revert OCA to before it was buffed, literally no reason it should have been buffed in the first place.
Anubis is fine.
Oblivion is fine.
COBRA is really cool and I think it has an interesting place in the meta now.
Everything else I didn't list can stay as the live build.

This is just my two cents on what I think would be the most balanced you could get with all the weapons now, agree to agree or disagree to disagree.

Agreed.
Rushed update to balance, broke APB Reloaded-

RIP IR3</3 useless mod now.

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On 8/9/2018 at 6:28 PM, indi said:

There is other things G1 changed beyond just weapon balance. There are mods that were added like Car Detonator, Radar Tower, and Car Spawner that devolves the meta into racing around in max HP Pioneers/Espacios that in my opinion should be straight up removed from the game all together.

Car Surfer and Low Yields (Yes, I am complaining about Low Yields despite me being a frequent abuser of them) are also imbalanced in my opinion, reducing the grenades to 2 or just removing them all together wouldn't have a negative impact on the game. Car Surfer is just a meme tbh.

 
A lot of us, run flak jacket, so we already have two? So what we should only get one? Where is your logic? Also, NO to your "radical idea". Edited by Kivron
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On 8/9/2018 at 6:55 PM, Triksterism said:

I would rather have the 'new' mods changed rather than removed. Things weren't all sunshine and rainbows before their introduction either. Pioneers were still used heavily (im looking at you Armas Pio) and arguably harder to deal with.

> CAR SPAWNER: Disable the ability to spawn if the vehicle is moving with the possibility to counteract this if you use muffler
> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)
> REMOTE DETONATOR: Give it a longer cooldown and/or make it also increase brick's cooldown.
> BLOW TORCH: Reduced the usage time by half. If used while car surfing or while hanging out of a window, reduce the effectiveness by 25-50%
> LOW YIELDS: Increase their resupply time by 50-100%. Reduce their number to 2 but if you use flak jacket, they dont get their number reduced (2 instead of 1).
> RADAR TOWER: Pretty balanced imo. Keep it as is
> YELLOW MODS: Just make them permanent already
> BOOM BOX: Make this useful by making it an AoE anti-radar tower / anti-car spawner deployable. Or make it a 'decoy' object (makes random gunfire noises).
> MED SPRAY / MOBILE COVER / RESUPPLY BOX (both) / EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR / SATCHEL CHARGE: These all feel pretty balanced as-is. Maybe add a despawn timer to deployables

> VEHICLES: Give different vehicles bonuses/penalties to certain mods.
      Some examples:
                               Mikro gets a range bonus to radar tower but a penalty to car spawner
                               Pioneer gets a bonus to fast fix but a reduced effectiveness penalty to steel plating
                               Kurai gets a bonus to steel plating (mod penalty reduction perhaps) but a penalty to fireproofing


@Nanometic @mynd @Abduct / Devote @indi @Tobii @Dopefish -- Thoughts?
 
Glad, LO isn't hiring you to do the changes. Your ego, on stream is quite evident. @Triksterism You always need to feel relevant.  LOL, it's great seeing the Seinfield crew rekt you and mind. Edited by Kivron
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On 8/10/2018 at 12:18 AM, Kewlin said:

The Misery has literally always been 5-STK, and was totally usable before this buff.

u are the same guy that was saying the PMG is fine and not at all overpowered, 0 credibility.

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Removed few posts because of derailing. Please make sure you stick to the topic.

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On 8/9/2018 at 4:55 PM, Triksterism said:
AR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)
$#@$ NO
That would make it completely useless on car surfing my own car ghost driving it and would only kill me instead

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On 8/10/2018 at 12:55 AM, Triksterism said:
> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)
It's car surfer not Car Stay on the Car For As Long As you can without the mod. (And you already have a natural debuff on accuracy due to high car speed and suspension when you are turning in the car.)
Doesn't need a nerf if you really think its op use it yourself. (imo HL3 is better if you are using weapons you can use out of the window)
car surfer leaves you completely exposed to outside fire.
People think JG is op (its not its a close range powerful weapon) the spread fucks up your 2 shots after 10 meters and it takes 4-5 shots. Again, if you think its OP use it yourself.
People think ATAC is op, its a fucking assault rifle it has high firerate, deal with it that's how guns work in the real world, Again, if you think its OP use it yourself.
No one uses Kevlar Implants because its so shit, that's whats going to happen to all of these guns if you keep fucking moaning. Edited by jimmyneutron69
double post glitch

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8 minutes ago, jimmyneutron69 said:
It's car surfer not Car Stay on the Car For As Long As you can without the mod. (And you already have a natural debuff on accuracy due to high car speed and suspension when you are turning in the car.)
Doesn't need a nerf if you really think its op use it yourself. (imo HL3 is better if you are using weapons you can use out of the window)
car surfer leaves you completely exposed to outside fire.
People think JG is op (its not its a close range powerful weapon) the spread fucks up your 2 shots after 10 meters and it takes 4-5 shots. Again, if you think its OP use it yourself.
People think ATAC is op, its a fucking assault rifle it has high firerate, deal with it that's how guns work in the real world, Again, if you think its OP use it yourself.
No one uses Kevlar Implants because its so shit, that's whats going to happen to all of these guns if you keep fucking moaning.
>defends car surfer
>uses "real world" as a defense later in the same post


...hilarious Edited by CookiePuss

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Here's what I would change if I had the choice.

Car Surfer:

It's a meme mod. Fun to use but will get you killed more often than you actually benefit from it. Against decent players this is a completely useless mod anyway, since you are presenting yourself on a silver platter. Doesn't really have a priority for me when it comes to mod changes.

Radar Tower:

Remove, it's a bad mechanic.

Spotter:

I use the mod all the time, still same logic as with the radar tower. Free wallhack is a dumb mechanic, remove.

Improved Rifling

Change to 5/9/12m 

Make it so the weapon does not do 100% damage when exceeding original maximum range. Basically like the damage drop off system works. Lets say weapon X does 10dmg/hit outside of its effective range. Its damage within its effective range is 20dmg/hit. With IR3 We can go past its effective range by 14m. However instead of giving us the maximum 20dmg/hit (like it works atm) for an extra 12m, we do 15dmg/hit within those 12m.

This would still make IR a mod without a downside, but I don't think it necessarily needs one. We just make the benefits a little less strong. My suggestion is gonna take alot of effort because it has to consider all the different damage curves though, so it's probably not viable.

In essence, I'm saying that instead of extending the range in which a weapon has min TTK, IR should only decrease TTK at range a bit,

Pioneer/Espacio meta

Reduce max hp slightly.

General car strat

Implement a mechanic that prevents you from popping out the car at high speed. Or make it so you can't have full accuracy after doing so. This will slow the game down, but the car rush meta is incredibly boring to play or play against, with the 4 heavy car version being outright frustrating. (This is coming from someone who plays with his chrome osmaw all the time, I can counter this strat pretty reliably but it's still boring).

3PS

Make it so swapping to your secondary takes 36% longer. Disable 3PS for all secondary weapons.

Kevlar

Increase max health gain to 40%
Remove speed debuff
Add 30% weapon swap time
Make marksman mode accuracy gain 20% slower

Fragile

Change gained speed to 25%



There's lots more stuff I would change but I just created these from the top of my head. They are not that thought through, but I still wanted to write them down.
 

Edited by VanilleKeks
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20 hours ago, VanilleKeks said:

Here's what I would change if I had the choice.

Car Surfer:

It's a meme mod. Fun to use but will get you killed more often than you actually benefit from it. Against decent players this is a completely useless mod anyway, since you are presenting yourself on a silver platter. Doesn't really have a priority for me when it comes to mod changes.

Radar Tower:

Remove, it's a bad mechanic.

Spotter:

I use the mod all the time, still same logic as with the radar tower. Free wallhack is a dumb mechanic, remove.

Improved Rifling

Change to 5/9/12m 

Make it so the weapon does not do 100% damage when exceeding original maximum range. Basically like the damage drop off system works. Lets say weapon X does 10dmg/hit outside of its effective range. Its damage within its effective range is 20dmg/hit. With IR3 We can go past its effective range by 14m. However instead of giving us the maximum 20dmg/hit (like it works atm) for an extra 12m, we do 15dmg/hit within those 12m.

This would still make IR a mod without a downside, but I don't think it necessarily needs one. We just make the benefits a little less strong. My suggestion is gonna take alot of effort because it has to consider all the different damage curves though, so it's probably not viable.

In essence, I'm saying that instead of extending the range in which a weapon has min TTK, IR should only decrease TTK at range a bit,

Pioneer/Espacio meta

Reduce max hp slightly.

General car strat

Implement a mechanic that prevents you from popping out the car at high speed. Or make it so you can't have full accuracy after doing so. This will slow the game down, but the car rush meta is incredibly boring to play or play against, with the 4 heavy car version being outright frustrating. (This is coming from someone who plays with his chrome osmaw all the time, I can counter this strat pretty reliably but it's still boring).

3PS

Make it so swapping to your secondary takes 36% longer. Disable 3PS for all secondary weapons.

Kevlar

Increase max health gain to 40%
Remove speed debuff
Add 30% weapon swap time
Make marksman mode accuracy gain 20% slower

Fragile

Change gained speed to 25%



There's lots more stuff I would change but I just created these from the top of my head. They are not that thought through, but I still wanted to write them down.
 

GOD no
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hey member when G1 nerfed concs, buffed all car hp's, and put in 2 car mods that are objectively better than any other mods?




i member

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On 8/19/2018 at 11:35 AM, CookiePuss said:
>defends car surfer
>uses "real world" as a defense later in the same post


...hilarious
You can stay on top of a car in real life.
Edited by jimmyneutron69

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Those cars aren't going 51MPH though like they do in this game, also heavy landings 3 is garbage and valzipram is objectively better in every single way.

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This thread is still a thing huh?
Revert all changes?

The guns were less balanced but yet still far worse and easier to exploit.....
The cars were changed on hp so that they would not be tinfoil..... some were so slow you could not drive uphill  much if at all..... that was a nightmare
New cars  new mods and new guns were added which makes gameplay more versatile and interesting rather than the same boring things
Spawn points were worked on but not completely fixed but they were completely horrible and people were spawn killed repeatedly before (so many quit from that in a pure  hatred and rightfully so)
New clothing has been added over and over which means by what this thread is about to remove that as well....
This thread would also mean no deployable mods anymore....

So what gameplay is left if we do this "radical idea" ???
Sounds  pretty damn boring to me and I am quite certain removing content for any game will make it dull and boring to where the game would die....
I want you to die in my crosshairs not  APB

You guys don't like the changes  for various reasons ? The changes benefited us all.

Edit :  I told it like it is and was down voted for it lol
Only shows the ones on this thread wanting to throw stuff out are noobs who have no clue
I wouldn't ever want to make APB worse intentionally but the ones who are saying remove this or remove that apparently don't care about APB and only want it easier for themselves from selfishness.

Edited by Fortune Runner
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