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OCrazyGuyO

Tips on breaking the ntec

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N-TEC-5 and N-TEC-Scope

We have been seeing the N-TEC 5 being used more than we would like. We are slightly decreasing the spraying accuracy to help make room for other assault rifles.

Shot Modifier Cap: 2.0 -> 2.1

 

So, it seems that developer of this game are really dedicated to break the ntec but they seem don't know how to do it, so here I am giving some suggestions on how to break the ntec

 

Ntec have always been there even before you buff the Shot modifier Cap in the first weapon balance, so no matter how you change the modifier cap, ppl are still gonna use it because ppl are going for short bursts and tap fire and they would rarely reach the max spraying bloom.

 

Here are some options to break the ntec:

1. Nerf the walk modifier - so it's accuracy break to shit once u try to move while firing

2. Nerf the recovery delay and recovery per second - so you can't tap fire that thing as fast as now

3. Nerf the range - make it 40m just like the atac so ppl will throw it into the trash bin immediately

4. Nerf the ttk - I guess I don't need to explain this?

 

Pick anyone of the nerf listed above and if you want to be sure that no one ever use the ntec again, use all of them.  😄

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"ThE NtEC wAs PerFeCtLy BalAncEd"

- Blokes who've mained the N-TEC for a decade and therefore cannot possibly be objective.

 

I haven't played much it since the batch of changes before that one, mind.

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People still don't understand that nerfing the n-tec doesn't do anything and just leaves a mid-range/all around AR vacuum left in its place. Even the devs don't realise that.

Edited by NotZombieBiscuit
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Alright so, the N-tec is a tough one, its the most played weapon in the game and any changes to it will come with backlash, whether that's from the people that play the N-tec religiously or those that are tired of seeing no other AR's that are in the game being used. 

 

While I was personally very happy with how the AR diversity played out during the 2.4 Modifier Cap N-tec era I can agree that it could've seemed like it was too much of a nerf because it basically eliminated any sort of kill potential in full auto beyond 10m, however, this gave a lot of breathing room to other AR's that were better in CQC but came with the tradeoff of being worse at those longer distances or not having as much multi-kill potential due to a lower mag size, sometimes both. During this time, you would see a lot of N-tecs, ATAC's and FAR's with the occasional STAR thrown in aswell which was quite a refreshing thing to see and made the gameplay feel a lot less 'samey'.

 

1 hour ago, OCrazyGuyO said:

ppl are going for short bursts and tap fire and they would rarely reach the max spraying bloom.

 

This is an extremely good point and is exactly why I personally feel like even the 2.4 Modifier cap wasn't as bad as people made it out to be, it wasn't useless in CQC but rather required more skill and a different approach that wasn't holding mouse 1 anywhere within 15-20 meters. The N-tec was still extremely good and was still the most used AR in the game but players often felt a little too stubborn to adapt to the new best way to play CQC with the N-tec. 

 

When the N-tec got a 50% revert to its initial nerf back a month ago (Modifier Cap 2.4 > 2.0) it once again became the clear choice to use which made other AR's became obsolete again. I am not going to ignore the fact that the FAR had a minor nerf to its max bloom which combined with the N-tec buff made them once again come a lot closer to what they used to be or the fact that for some reason all AR's had their jumping accuracy nerfed when some of them were meant to be better at CQC compared to the N-tec which is designed to be the Mid range AR, therefore having a worse jumping accuracy made sense. Both of those things definitely play a part but I personally think neither the FAR nerf or N-tec buff should've happened.

 

One more thing to note is that weapon balance will never be final, things are never going to be perfectly balanced and that's why its an ongoing effort, however, in this situation, there is not a lot of room for any buffs to the STAR / FAR to make them viable compared to the N-tec without making them feel like too similar to the N-tec itself. I've personally brainstormed a bunch of ideas and couldn't come up with more than a hand full of minor things that wouldn't change the entire feel of the gun or made them too close to be like any of the other AR's. If you have any ideas there please quote me and throw them my way. (Brainstorming is always a good thing!)

 

No one is trying to destroy your favorite gun in the game but sometimes buffs and nerfs need to happen to give more guns in the game some breathing room, APB has so many guns in the game but only a small amount of them sees regular use, diversity is a good thing and sometimes that comes through nerfs to things that overshadow other weapons just to give those weapons a little more breathing room to exist.

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you guys really need to balance around the ntec instead of nerfing it.

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3 minutes ago, Motorola said:

you guys really need to balance around the ntec instead of nerfing it.

Na dude. Don't you want the gameplay for the majority of players to only be CQC or long range unless you open up your wallet?

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10 hours ago, Frosi said:

One more thing to note is that weapon balance will never be final, things are never going to be perfectly balanced and that's why its an ongoing effort, however, in this situation, there is not a lot of room for any buffs to the STAR / FAR to make them viable compared to the N-tec without making them feel like too similar to the N-tec itself. I've personally brainstormed a bunch of ideas and couldn't come up with more than a hand full of minor things that wouldn't change the entire feel of the gun or made them too close to be like any of the other AR's. If you have any ideas there please quote me and throw them my way. (Brainstorming is always a good thing!)

 Short answer: Just do it as below....

 

My question: WHy use the far if I have the ntec  is better in everyway for its role, a precise assual rifles for medium range?

Why increasing the bloom and adding  less precision to the Far while having the weird mechanical horizontal recoil  inherited from the star?

Dont get me wrong, the jumpshotting nerf for FAR it was a good one, but the other changes around for some other weapons too I am speechless.

 

9 hours ago, Motorola said:

you guys really need to balance around the ntec instead of nerfing it.

Agreed...

4 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

 

 

weird patootie thread 

Agreed, but I hope LO will not touch or adding it  "Nerf the walk modifier - so it's accuracy break to shit once u try to move while firing" for other weapons.

 

The actual Ursus has my total disgust for it.

 

LO shall focus a little too for previos Old (un)balanced patchs such as for shotgun... just there killed 3/4 weapons without a reason.

 

Edited by PingOVER9000

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On 10/20/2020 at 3:24 PM, Frosi said:

This is an extremely good point and is exactly why I personally feel like even the 2.4 Modifier cap wasn't as bad as people made it out to be, it wasn't useless in CQC but rather required more skill and a different approach that wasn't holding mouse 1 anywhere within 15-20 meters. The N-tec was still extremely good and was still the most used AR in the game but players often felt a little too stubborn to adapt to the new best way to play CQC with the N-tec.

This ^ , so much.

When the n-tec got the 2.4 modifier cap, I just adapted and started burst firing at the right ranges. 3x3 shots still killed people really fast if you do it right. I was perfectly fine with it.

Then they buffed it and honestly, that wasn't needed as it was putting it back towards the full spray style play which is what made it too strong to begin with, which I guess is reflected in this very slight increase from 2.0 to 2.1, which sounds like it will hardly be noticable, but I'd have to test to see of course.

IMO... could have stuck with 2.4. N-tec mains whined because their favourite easy weapon was changed, but it was honestly too good and they know it if they're being honest.

Edited by Cr0
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I don't use NTEC much, but I feel sorry for it, it was perfectly fine, and any other weapon must be well balanced as NTEC is.

Also, as far as I remember, year ago, on Q&A stream, Matt said about NTEC that "they will just try something" or so. What happened, Matt?

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22 hours ago, Frosi said:

No one is trying to destroy your favorite gun in the game but sometimes buffs and nerfs need to happen to give more guns in the game some breathing room, APB has so many guns in the game but only a small amount of them sees regular use, diversity is a good thing and sometimes that comes through nerfs to things that overshadow other weapons just to give those weapons a little more breathing room to exist.

Then maybe try making some of the useless niche guns useful instead of repeatedly targeting one simply because "we are seeing it getting too much use" .. make alternatives tempting instead of gambling whether or not long term players walk away over the latest iteration of worse and worse feeling standard guns. One gun might be more in-line with competitors on the micro scale, but the game as a whole may grow to feel terribly sluggish as each standard gun goes on to get its own bolt timer, accuracy takeup, or switch speed time nerf - or something to that effect. (just for HOPES that people discard them in favor of alternatives) It's a good thing they didn't give the fbw a shot interval nerf - or give the 45 a reload speed nerf in hopes that people start using harbringers and snubs. But thats sort of what they're doing with the ntec right now. It doesn't make me want to use an alternate rifle as much as it makes me want to play an alternate game.

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14 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

My question: WHy use the far if I have the ntec  is better in everyway for its role, a precise assual rifles for medium range?

That is exactly the issue I was describing in my post, since the N-tec was buffed to 2.0 Modifier cap from 2.4 there is no more reason to use the FAR.

 

1 hour ago, iMiss said:

Then maybe try making some of the useless niche guns useful instead of repeatedly targeting one simply because "we are seeing it getting too much use"

Thats why balancing weapons is a community effort, we are the ones playing the guns (or in some cases not playing them) and realizing their varying strengths and weaknesses, we are the ones that should voice our opinions on what is too strong, too weak or in the perfect place. LO is listening to the community a lot, especially in regards to weapons so any opinion, any feedback and any voice will certainly be acknowledged. 

 

One thing I am commonly seeing right now is the fact that people share their discontent about something when a patch happens that doesn't address it rather than sharing said discontent after having experienced it enough to have a set opinion about it. A good example here is the OCA being too strong or the PMG being too weak which has seen a huge surge in feedback after the patch notes for todays patch went up and people noticed that they aren't being addressed.

 

The sooner opinions and feedback come in the sooner LO can react and makes changes accordingly, this Weapon balance process will continue and WE, the community are the ones that can help shape it.

Edited by Frosi
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2.4 ntec moved it to the same strength in cqc as other mid-long range weapons such as obeya or star. You weren’t able anymore just to pick small angle from the corner and minttk the guy pushing you. Some ppl realized and started switching to other meta weapons such as oscar and carbine in that situation others started whining to bring back old ntec.

 

Ntec is meant to be only a mid range weapon with extremely strong tapping. Making it strong in cqc in a 3rd person shooter is not a good way to balance it.

 

Now, we are again sitting in the same position where you stay with ntec and sometimes switch to oca if a place you’re currently playing in is hard cqc

Edited by Lign
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4 hours ago, Frosi said:

That is exactly the issue I was describing in my post, since the N-tec was buffed to 2.0 Modifier cap from 2.4 there is no more reason to use the FAR.

because the FAR was nerfed too

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On 10/20/2020 at 2:35 PM, NotZombieBiscuit said:

People still don't understand that nerfing the n-tec doesn't do anything and just leaves a mid-range/all around AR vacuum left in its place. Even the devs don't realise that.

 

And it seems like you fail to realize that the N-TEC 5 greatly outperforms any competitors. Bringing it back into line doesn't mean that some other gun will replace it.

You just see more useage in others because there is now more variety, and because a lot of people automatically assume that "nerf" means "ruined".

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49 minutes ago, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA said:

because the FAR was nerfed too

I did also mention that in my post but the minor far nerf to its bloom is nothing compared to the massive N-tec buff.

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7 hours ago, GhosT said:

 

And it seems like you fail to realize that the N-TEC 5 greatly outperforms any competitors. Bringing it back into line doesn't mean that some other gun will replace it.

You just see more useage in others because there is now more variety, and because a lot of people automatically assume that "nerf" means "ruined".

It isn't about how it performs. It is about the N-tec being the only easily accessible all around AR besides the STAR. Every other gun in that category requires your wallet, 'joker boxes', or farming tickets.

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8 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

It isn't about how it performs. It is about the N-tec being the only easily accessible all around AR besides the STAR. Every other gun in that category requires your wallet, 'joker boxes', or farming tickets.

 

Ouch, joker boxes aren't even a thing anymore and all armas guns are available for free now, including legendaries.

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8 minutes ago, GhosT said:

 

Ouch, joker boxes aren't even a thing anymore and all armas guns are available for free now, including legendaries.

What even are ' ' ?

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On 10/21/2020 at 4:19 PM, Frosi said:

That is exactly the issue I was describing in my post, since the N-tec was buffed to 2.0 Modifier cap from 2.4 there is no more reason to use the FAR.

No, the issue is buffing the ntec and meanwhile nerfing the far .... no logic no sense

 

At this point one sane person for comparing, he should have expected a buff to the Far too for comparing the Ntec buff, not instead a more nerf to its accuracy/ TTK

 

Same speech for the other AR too, I understood  all the thought was around to remove the ntec from indisputable throne of AR while still being good and having a fair competition with other weapons same role, but what I see until now it's a fail, FAR is a example, it become worse than before 🤣.

 

Then again, Ursus precision nerf while moving in markmanship mode is an another bullspit.

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Im pretty sure you want them to revert the n-tec nerfs, you just dont know it yet xd

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1 hour ago, Mozie said:

Im pretty sure you want them to revert the n-tec nerfs, you just dont know it yet xd

Nah... I am just a little upset for these  weapons balance patches,  still disgusted from shotgun one and seem I lost any hope...

 

Of course no one will replay  about it or better just half ignore the fact going trough a way without count the stink let at the bottom or the corner of it...

 

Then I mean, LO make money from Armas and legendaries etc.. what's the point having 8/9 on 10 weapon so useless or utter spit compared to the same around 10 competitive ones, FOCUS to  buff them in a way to make them compared to them, a PROFiT for all, you LO and players

Edited by PingOVER9000

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On 10/21/2020 at 10:19 AM, Frosi said:

That is exactly the issue I was describing in my post, since the N-tec was buffed to 2.0 Modifier cap from 2.4 there is no more reason to use the FAR.

well you also changed the far also.... you guys couldve left the far how it was before the balance patch and then leave the ntec at 2.0 and both would be good guns... i was using the FAR and Ntec before the changes but making the far way more inaccurate isnt gonna make me want to use it no matter how much you try to nerf the ntec's accuracy to compensate.

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On 10/22/2020 at 7:31 AM, GhosT said:

 

Ouch, joker boxes aren't even a thing anymore and all armas guns are available for free now, including legendaries.

Oh ya you're right. You just buy joker tickets with your wallet instead. Therefore you're still buying the weapons with you wallet unless you're grinding away for the tickets (which has already been a thing). Just like how you either bought joker boxes before or saved up your in-game money to buy a legendary off the market place. OUCH.... lol. That argument is flawed and it is a terrible way to justify it. It being other ARs are "easily accessible". So in the end as ZombieBiscuit said, the Ntec and Star are still the most accessible AR's as much as they were before as they are now.

 

Balancing should very much be around the ntec and not nerfing the ntec into the other weapons ranges. Just look at a majority of the AR's that have come out and were absolute garbage and still are pretty underwhelming. The only two notable ones are the Far and Aces Rifle for being good. They balanced the Far around the ntec and it was actually and still is a viable weapon. There was nothing wrong with the ntec prior to its changes back when RP was doing "balancing". Pre usual its a classic case of poor test location *cough* baylan *cough* and skewed testing/responses. God forbid a weapon in the game feels good and rewarding for using it well.

 

Also even if nerfing doesn't always entail something being gutted it still is NOT a way to balance things. Just because you're bringing the ntec in line with other ARs doesn't mean its not a nerf. It very much is a nerf. There is a difference between adjustments and nerfs. The amount of nerfs the ntec has received is much more than an adjustment. Where as the Obir having an adjustment such as having a bolt timer. Like I said above with skewed testing/responses people will continue to cry about the ntec because well it might as well be the "hip" thing to do. X person destroyed me so it must still be broken yada yada.

Edited by RespectThis

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