[GAME] Removal of car spawner and remote detonator

[Dopefish]

Back in 2015, the developers asked the community if there were any game mods they thought could be removed or improved on:

[Q&A Feedback] Game Mods, you feel can be removed or improved upon

 

I made a follow-up topic on it which has some additional discussion in it:

[Q&A Feedback Follow-up] Game Mods, you feel can be removed

 

An overwhelming consensus were for the removal of car spawners and remote detonators, with the arguments that they were detrimental for gameplay and the game would be better without them. It has been three years since then, so it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts on it today.

[CommandantSteele]

I rarely encounter detonators, even against the most scummiest/tryhard players. I have frequent run-ins with car spawning, but with the incredibly long cooldown presented I'm not being overwhelmed by them nor do I feel like I'm overwhelming people with them like I was before. Even then, I have a huge stack of satchel charges and I can just drop one on the offending vehicle and leave. I'm hoping one of these days to catch someone just as they spawn in the vehicle.

 

So, no, I think they're fine. 

[iPlumbum]

As above, my encounters with Remote Detonator is a rarity, athough it is fun to have it equipped and watch the rage flow. Regardless of using it or not but that just displays how its not a good mod.

 

Car spawning removal would make for more interesting missions and team load outs would become more viable with other car mods in its place. I think this could only happen though if the missions got balanced a bit better as with the current missions some of them are a pain and you're spawning closer than you would be.

 

Remove both, whats the worst that could happen. 

[cyral]

i see remote detonators pretty damn regularly in the bronze districts.....most people above R195 use em to block OBJs....and get an easy kill when their opp try and do the obj while not knowing what the char...equipment is...the detonators are a severely unfair advantage over low ranks who are just starting the game...

[MoeEveryWeek]

1 hour ago, cyral said:

i see remote detonators pretty damn regularly in the bronze districts.....most people above R195 use em to block OBJs....and get an easy kill when their opp try and do the obj while not knowing what the char...equipment is...the detonators are a severely unfair advantage over low ranks who are just starting the game...

Thats why you click on their name in the leaderboard and look at their mods

[M4Ni4C]

Car Spawner could be removed if LO fixes the spawn system in general.

 

Remote Detonator could need a contraction. A consumable jammer that blocks such stuff as Remote Detonator, Radar Jammer, Radar Tower, Spotter, Satchel Charges and Boom Boxes.

[CommandantSteele]

2 minutes ago, M4N!4C said:

Car Spawner could be removed if LO fixes the spawn system in general.

 

Remote Detonator could need a contraction. A consumable jammer that blocks such stuff as Remote Detonator, Radar Jammer, Radar Tower, Spotter, Satchel Charges and Boom Boxes.

Not gonna lie such a device would need to have a severe drawback if it blocked THAT much. Something like reduced health similar to fragile. Or the potato movement speed of Kevlar 3 due to carrying all the jammer equipment.

[itsExo]

Both of these should be removed, including the Mobile Radar Tower.

 

Vehicles should be used for transport, nothing else really.

[Fortune Runner]

car spawner = not being 200 to 300 away spawning from objective with no chance to finish it in time

 

remore detonator = grenade the dang thing you have them for a reason... plus lately bronzes are carrying osmaw and opgl around anyways

 

in conclusion - they were added to give more content , change balance to be more variable and all around more to do

 

removing anything would take away from gameplay and make it boring....

tutorial gives grenades so meh  not hard to blow it up

[Nite]

Do people still have issue with Mobile Spawn Point even with its long as heck cooldown? Would you really rather go back to being at the complete mercy of the spawn system by having them remove it?

[YumiSakura]

car spawn > spawn system

 

as for remote det, it's not hard to avoid if you are aware "pressed tab" that the enemy is using it.

[LilyV3]

True issues with carspawn:

 

too vital over other mods.

makes people use high health vehicles (causing vehicle imbalance)

not working properly about distances.

still broken spawn system

 

What the game needs is that car spanwer works properly only 120m away from mission objectives.

What the game needs is proper spawns AROUND objectives. sometimes you can choose 5 spawns but they are all from the same direction but just further away (and those at locations not at the edge of the map). This was one of the spawn imbalances why people wanted car spawns, so they can choose where to spawn.

 

Once this is fixed, car spawn could get some tweaks but before this happens it slves more issues than it causes.

 

btw here is a superold pic abotu the issues as it still i rpesent.

 

 

this is the typical spawn odderings (white circles and the yellow fileld ones.) the missions.  Three of them are absoltely unenecessary. Instead the game should offer us the green locations.

 

but way too often we get similar scenarios like aboce where we can simply choose between 120m, 150m and 300m, And this shouldnt happen at all.

[RevoFire]

I'd rather keep it, car spawners help both sides and I blow up enemy car spawners. It adds a tactical advantage. Remote detonators do the same, they piss me off when used in an pleasant fellow way, but generally I learn to live with it. I wouldn't ask for it to be removed as I like it as an option even if I don't use it.

[Ashley]

I feel like the Remote Detonator is relatively balanced in that if you know it's there (which you can check as soon as you get opp), it's not too difficult to play around it, and once they use it, their vehicle is obviously no longer available. Vehicles are a big asset in this game and the choice of blowing it up on purpose for potential short-term gain vs the longer-term disadvantage of not having a vehicle is balance enough IMO. You can always proactively detonate a Remote Det vehicle that's being used defensively, or use cover/distance to avoid an offensive one.

 

Mobile Spawner also has the disadvantage of showing up on the map/radar, meaning that an aware enemy will know exactly where you're spawning and be ready for you. Coupled with the delay between car spawns and the "sidegrade" balance of losing the ability to use any of the other blue mods, it's fine as it is.

 

My only addition to the two would be that the Radar Jammer modification should, like suggested above, disable Mobile Spawners in the vicinity (which would generally already be disabled by mere proximity anyway), and prevent Remote Detonator from activating if near the enemy player and/or prevent the vehicle from receiving the detonation request if near the vehicle itself.

[magik]

8 hours ago, M4N!4C said:

Car Spawner could be removed if LO fixes the spawn system in general.

I'm okay with this, but need to fix spawn system.

Remote Detonator could need a contraction. A consumable jammer that blocks such stuff as Remote Detonator, Radar Jammer, Radar Tower, Spotter, Satchel Charges and Boom Boxes.

Already have this.

 

8 hours ago, itsExo said:

Both of these should be removed, including the Mobile Radar Tower.

The problem with just removing things, is that they're designed to work in the gameplay, and with the accommodations as well as set back to each mod.

Vehicles should be used for transport, nothing else really.

What about the mobile supply unit? That's the real OG blue mod.

 

7 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

car spawner = not being 200 to 300 away spawning from objective with no chance to finish it in time

Precisely why the spawn system needs to be fixed.

remote detonator = grenade the dang thing you have them for a reason... plus lately bronzes are carrying osmaw and opgl around anyways

 

in conclusion - they were added to give more content , change balance to be more variable and all around more to do

 

removing anything would take away from gameplay and make it boring....

tutorial gives grenades so meh  not hard to blow it up

 

4 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

True issues with carspawn:

 

too vital over other mods.

makes people use high health vehicles (causing vehicle imbalance)

not working properly about distances.

still broken spawn system

 

What the game needs is that car spanwer works properly only 120m away from mission objectives.

What the game needs is proper spawns AROUND objectives. sometimes you can choose 5 spawns but they are all from the same direction but just further away (and those at locations not at the edge of the map). This was one of the spawn imbalances why people wanted car spawns, so they can choose where to spawn.

 

Once this is fixed, car spawn could get some tweaks but before this happens it slves more issues than it causes.

 

btw here is a superold pic abotu the issues as it still i rpesent.

 

 

this is the typical spawn odderings (white circles and the yellow fileld ones.) the missions.  Three of them are absoltely unenecessary. Instead the game should offer us the green locations.

 

but way too often we get similar scenarios like aboce where we can simply choose between 120m, 150m and 300m, And this shouldnt happen at all.

Looking at your map, your enemies have 3 car spawns next to the obj, while you guys don't have any, and my guess that the system is also giving them the spawns on the East side of the objectives.

This is why a rework should be in place for them. (making the timer longer hurts the players because they have to use the garbage spawns)

6 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I feel like the Remote Detonator is relatively balanced in that if you know it's there (which you can check as soon as you get opp), it's not too difficult to play around it, and once they use it, their vehicle is obviously no longer available. Vehicles are a big asset in this game and the choice of blowing it up on purpose for potential short-term gain vs the longer-term disadvantage of not having a vehicle is balance enough IMO. You can always proactively detonate a Remote Det vehicle that's being used defensively, or use cover/distance to avoid an offensive one.

 

Mobile Spawner also has the disadvantage of showing up on the map/radar, meaning that an aware enemy will know exactly where you're spawning and be ready for you. Coupled with the delay between car spawns and the "sidegrade" balance of losing the ability to use any of the other blue mods, it's fine as it is.

 

My only addition to the two would be that the Radar Jammer modification should, like suggested above, disable Mobile Spawners in the vicinity (which would generally already be disabled by mere proximity anyway), and prevent Remote Detonator from activating if near the enemy player and/or prevent the vehicle from receiving the detonation request if near the vehicle itself.

I like this suggestion.

 

[LilyV3]

in this missions we had the carspawns there earlier, and they blew it up and palced theirs there. But that doesn't matters, spawns should never be like this this is the core issues the spawn sytsem had, choose of 5 where all 5 are on the same side with 3 being worse than the others.  Both teams hsould have a true chocie of spawning AROUND the system.

 

Sure this system we have now is a bit better than the old one where you could force spawns so opps only spaned on the street getting sniped, but it still has issues because in man instances we just get "fake choices". 

[Excalibur!]

Sadly, is too late.

 

Balancing spawns all over will be a pain, and it wont allways be 100% fair. With car spawn you set yourself a spawn that worths. Is not op because a single conc (or two for tankier cars) remove the spawn.

Detonators are kinda strong, but they are easy to avoid.

 

Concl: we should keep them.

Probably best mods they could add to the game that were not part of the original idea.

Edited May 30, 2018 by LuzExtinguido

[Dopefish]

19 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

remore detonator = grenade the dang thing you have them for a reason... plus lately bronzes are carrying osmaw and opgl around anyways

It takes longer time to throw a single grenade, than it takes to jump out of a vehicle and remote detonate it, not to mention that grenades doesn't do much against the heavier vehicles.

 

12 hours ago, Ashley said:

I feel like the Remote Detonator is relatively balanced in that if you know it's there (which you can check as soon as you get opp), it's not too difficult to play around it, and once they use it, their vehicle is obviously no longer available. Vehicles are a big asset in this game and the choice of blowing it up on purpose for potential short-term gain vs the longer-term disadvantage of not having a vehicle is balance enough IMO. You can always proactively detonate a Remote Det vehicle that's being used defensively, or use cover/distance to avoid an offensive one.

 

Mobile Spawner also has the disadvantage of showing up on the map/radar, meaning that an aware enemy will know exactly where you're spawning and be ready for you. Coupled with the delay between car spawns and the "sidegrade" balance of losing the ability to use any of the other blue mods, it's fine as it is.

 

My only addition to the two would be that the Radar Jammer modification should, like suggested above, disable Mobile Spawners in the vicinity (which would generally already be disabled by mere proximity anyway), and prevent Remote Detonator from activating if near the enemy player and/or prevent the vehicle from receiving the detonation request if near the vehicle itself.

Nice to see you back Ashley!

 

You don't always have the time to check the scoreboard, and look through every weapon and mod that the opposition has during the mission, not to mention that they could switch them out at any time. My issue with it, is that there are several occasions where it's impossible to dodge a 12m death radius that has little to no telegraphing. Not to mention that suiciding with it gives a quick respawn, while the killed enemy will have to sit through the longer respawn time.

 

The biggest reason you mention the lack of vehicle as a disadvantage is due to how big of an impact the mobile spawner have on missions. It's currently the dominant mod for vehicles, and not using it would put you at an disadvantage. When was the last time you saw anyone use Extra Cargo Capacity, Mobile Supply Unit, or Mobile Radar Tower instead? Seeing it on the radar when you get close enough, doesn't really let you know where the enemy will spawn (only where they might), and that's if you even manage to get close enough to see it to begin with.

 

I like the idea of bringing more utility to Radar Jammer, but not as a required counter-measure to the imbalance of the other mods. Consider that this is a mod you currently unlock after rank 195, so it will be inaccessible to alot of players. 

[Fortune Runner]

two starter regular ol frag grenades work just fine on any car bomb blocking the objective like what was mentioned

and if you're dumb enough to stand out in the open i doubt they'll car bomb since most would just run you over for being noobish

no matter if its financial or waterfront if you're in the open you pretty much deserve to die anyways regardless of  what weapon is used

[Wigglebottom]

When they added car spawners to the game they completely destroy the balance in missions because players can literally spawn on the objectives with car spawners. As far as i remember they added them so we would have more spawns to choose from, i do like the idea but it sure does need some changes. I also wouldn't mind if it would get removed. And if they don't remove the remote detonator from the game, they could at least give it a 2 minutes cooldown

Edited May 30, 2018 by Wigglebottom

[Ashley]

9 hours ago, Dopefish said:

You don't always have the time to check the scoreboard, and look through every weapon and mod that the opposition has during the mission, not to mention that they could switch them out at any time.

I always seem to have time to do so personally, and having the forethought to check the opposition's loadout before and throughout the mission is another aspect of metagaming in APB that adds some depth and heightens the skill ceiling. There are few games where you get such an insight into your opposition's intentions and capabilities as in APB through the scoreboard.

 

9 hours ago, Dopefish said:

My issue with it, is that there are several occasions where it's impossible to dodge a 12m death radius that has little to no telegraphing. Not to mention that suiciding with it gives a quick respawn, while the killed enemy will have to sit through the longer respawn time.

The modification would be useless if it was too easy to never be inconvenienced by it. The purpose of it is to either act as a deterrent to approaching the vehicle or to attempt to eliminate something (like an enemy or their vehicle) through its explosion. Dying to a well-timed Remote Detonator explosion is something I consider no different from dying to a weapon or grenade, and I don't see why some get so frustrated by it and don't get as annoyed when they die to a well-placed Concussion grenade on their vehicle or other means.

 

Also, suicides give demerits and enough of them will have you removed from the mission. Obviously, a slightly reduced score may not be a real deterrent to many players, but there is an upper limit to how many times they can suicide detonate before it kicks them from the game. If you can avoid death once or twice in a suicide rush, which is hardly impossible, that's a big disincentive to them doing it again.

 

9 hours ago, Dopefish said:

When was the last time you saw anyone use Extra Cargo Capacity, Mobile Supply Unit, or Mobile Radar Tower instead?

I agree that Extra Cargo is a mostly useless modification that should be rethought in terms of PVP, as it's only useful for ramraiders. Mobile Supply Unit has been overshadowed by the prevalence of ammo supply consumables, which is a shame. It could be reworked to resupply quicker than any other means, or potentially remove the ability to resupply grenades from anywhere except Mobile Supply and ammo vendors to cut down on grenade spam and incentivise the use of MSU.

 

Mobile Radar Tower, however, is in my opinion by far the strongest vehicle modification in the game, similar to how Spotter is by far the strongest character modification (far overshadowing Remote Detonator, by the way). You may not feel this way but Mobile Radar and Spotter are huge factors in how many times my teammates and I get accused of wallhacks or cheats in general. Knowing the exact position of your enemy is a force multiplier that makes missions way easier than a potential extra kill or two from Remote Detonator does.

 

Mobile Spawner is definitely a big boon if at least one vehicle on your team has it, but it very quickly hits diminishing returns after that one vehicle. The team is much better served with Radar Towers outnumbering Spawners than vice versa.

 

9 hours ago, Dopefish said:

Nice to see you back Ashley!

And, thanks! I never really left, though it's nice to see a new administration that can hopefully right some wrongs and put the game on a good track.

[Lord Cashpoint]

I wouldn't remove Mobile Spawn Unit, but I would like to see it made easier both to disable the mod on a vehicle, increasing the range in which players can block it, and also add a radius around the objective where it will not function. It's a useful asset, but too often does a situation like this occur:

• A Vegas equipped with Mobile Spawn Unit with two enemies in comes streaming past
• One enemy jumps out and starts a fight with you
• You kill the enemy
• The Vegas drives around the corner and the enemy simply spawns in it

Obviously this isn't the situation every time, but it does sum up exactly what I don't like about the mod, simply that it's too easy to deploy given how vital a tool it is. A Pioneer on a highway with a spawner is a massive threat to your team, and takes up far more of your time to destroy it then it does to put it there.

 

I full-heartedly agree with Ashely as well, in that Mobile Radar Tower is probably even worse in terms of balancing. As it stands currently, a radar tower car is invisible on the radar until you trigger it, instantly giving away your position. I would love to see some kind of counterplay to the mod, especially given that it's easy to place the car in such a location that the only way to destroy it is to enter its radius. Perhaps we could resurrect that old myth that sprinting puts you on the radar and make it so that not sprinting keeps you off a radar tower.

 

Additionally, a character mod (Not satchels) which disables vehicle based mods would be fantastic.

[weissraider]

I personal think that Car Spawner is a great tactical aspect of the game by now. But i hate it.

They need to nerf it more. Disallow spawning in a Moving Car. Disallow spawning in a Car that recently got hit by other teams bullet. Increase Spawn Cooldown even more. Reduce Car Health by %.

 

[vsb]

id like to see the siren fixed on detonator, it doesnt give you the full 2 seconds of warning before detonation at point blank range

 

it also kind of frustrates me thats is physically impossible to escape the explosion radius of several vehicles if you are at point blank range det activation, but thats a minor pet peeve

Edited May 31, 2018 by BXNNXD

[Thial]

Wasn't car spawner added to the game to compensate for the poor spawn system in the first place ? If the spawn system gets fixed I see no reason for car spawners to still exist in the game. There's nothing more annoying than a pioneer with a single guy driving around you 20 meters away and his entire team spawns in the car or people simply abusing the mod by for example putting car spawners on the objectives. Not to mention people constantly respawning with hvrs on the overpass and such because you have no way of destroying those pioneers other than driving 200 meters away from the objective to get on the damn ramp and avoid getting killed while climbing up a scaffolding and hopefully wiping out entire enemy team which is camping there so you can destroy a single car which will be back anyway the next time they respawn. Just remove the damn thing once and for all.