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Musul Man

Game is not balanced (Pro enforcer)

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There are things that must be fixed, that were never a good idea to begin with. Creating a big gap between Enforcers and Criminals, being beneficial only to enforcers. Like this game was planned to help enforcers from the start.

 

So far I have two aspects of the game that seem very unbalanced to me:

 

1- The non lethal weapons. Some are one shot stuns, others just stun faster than normal guns kill. Sometimes they even bug and end up killing you anyways. Overall no criminal is happy that these exist, mainly because we have nothing similar. IMHO it was a bad idea to add these, and now a fix will be difficult to find.

 

2- The cars. Some of the top tier police cars and vans have way more HP, weight and push than their criminal counterparts. That is about it. Of course the criminals can get these cars as well but not the same way. It's either with joker points or events like referral. And in most cases they can't be customized.

 

Does someone else agree on these points?

 

 

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What ltl is a one shot stun exactly? What ltl has a higher tts vs any other weapons ttk? Just asking, not trying to provoke, because i seem to have been using all the wrong ltl on my enf...

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1 hour ago, Musul Man said:

There are things that must be fixed, that were never a good idea to begin with. Creating a big gap between Enforcers and Criminals, being beneficial only to enforcers. Like this game was planned to help enforcers from the start.

 

So far I have two aspects of the game that seem very unbalanced to me:

 

1- The non lethal weapons. Some are one shot stuns, others just stun faster than normal guns kill. Sometimes they even bug and end up killing you anyways. Overall no criminal is happy that these exist, mainly because we have nothing similar. IMHO it was a bad idea to add these, and now a fix will be difficult to find.

 

2- The cars. Some of the top tier police cars and vans have way more HP, weight and push than their criminal counterparts. That is about it. Of course the criminals can get these cars as well but not the same way. It's either with joker points or events like referral. And in most cases they can't be customized.

 

Does someone else agree on these points?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, SelttikS said:

What ltl is a one shot stun exactly? What ltl has a higher tts vs any other weapons ttk? Just asking, not trying to provoke, because i seem to have been using all the wrong ltl on my enf...

 

This. People are actually willing to have discussions on these forums- but when you approach without facts and data to back your claims, you will quickly lose their attention.

 

The truth is, there is no single LTL gun that 1 shot stuns (grenade excluded). There are fast combinations, but the fastest LTL stun comes at the highest risk.

 

The counter option for crims is the ability to generate loads of cash through ram-raiding, which enforcers can only bank on if they both witness and come out of it victorious. The ability to initiate ram-raids is criminal exclusive, and in many cases preferred over unlocking LTL.

 

As for the cars, can you provide examples?

Edited by BuggedOut
correction

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oh man not this again

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With regards to LTL, as a crim, I disagree. Nothing is a 1-shot stun [Unless the grenade does], however certain combinations (pig/perc, CSG/scout + perc etc..) can seem to stun quickly. the CCG can stun faster than say an ntec, however the weapons are worse overall; very little range, requires very good aim, else a good criminal can turn around and killl them. Furthermore, LTL weaponry does do health damage as well as stamina damage, so they don't "bug", the enemy was just too damaged to be stunned before killed. I'm personally fine with the fact they exist, and I think if criminals had a counterpart it'd neither make sense, nor be played much. Overall, yes they can be annoying to face, esp. if a whole team uses LTL, as it makes it tough to beat them as easily.

With regards to the cars, it's rare that the HP of a top-tier car makes a difference, maybe a couple more ALIG shots, or a few more bullets after the compulsery 2 concussion grenades. Yes it'd be nice to make them the same, however it wouldn't fit the themes of each faction imo (Criminals use what they can get their hands on, enforcers have government support and funding, and so have better equipment.  Yes, ignoring Armas/JT, each faction are limited to their own cars which is comopletely fair.

 

The only thing I personally think needs to be changed with regard to what was mentioned, is that the Seiyo/Pioneer vehicles have legitimate balance issues: The pioneer can be shot from 1 window to the opposite side, whereas the Seiyo is so tall that the passengers are limited to their own side. This can cause a huge disparity in a gun fight in which enforcers have a much easier time shooting their opponents.

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Why are Less than Lethal so..."powerful", if may I ask. Using less than lethal is rather difficult, unless you go scummy combos like Perc and that secondary ltl that does a huge amount of stamina damage(if you actually hit)

 

Additionally, ltl can't even be modded. If they were capable of being modded, things would have looked differently...

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1. Please, try to make a cop and run LTL for a full session or two, and see if your opinion differs.

 

2. Get a Vegas, arguably the best car in the game and it's unlocked pretty early from a tier 3 contact.

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Dear OP.


Make an enforcer character, grab LTL and go play a mission. You will hate your life and the world.

Stabba is fucking hard to play, since most guns out TTK you, and when stars align and you somehow get the stun, sometimes you can't even get the arrest.


Enough with these upset silver threads, stupid complaining that has no grounds being truthful.

Edited by Luminesca
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I hope this is a joke thread.

 

1. LTL is  a straight up downgrade to actual weapons.

 

2. The vehicles between factions are pretty much the same. Not to mention cross faction and 'uni-faction?' vehicles.

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i don't agree with each one of your points , and i would like to say why , but it's almost midnight 😩 , maybe tommorow .

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Would like to ask all the people that have "issues" with ltl one serious question. Do you feel the way you do because you feel insulted being stun/arrested?

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35 minutes ago, Luminesca said:

Dear OP.


Make an enforcer character, grab LTL and go play a mission. You will hate your life and the world.

Stabba is fucking hard to play, since most guns out TTK you, and when stars align and you somehow get the stun, sometimes you can't even get the arrest.


Enough with these upset silver threads, stupid complaining that has no grounds being truthful.

Exactly what crossed my mind. But if i was the one saying it any mod would find an excuse for another cheap warning.

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as everyone pointed out....

 

i know better than that so make an enf and have at it.... you'l see LTL is difficult to get arrests with and all around is a downgrade compared to normal weapons

 

and no cars are not op for enf and not crim you didnt level your contacts enough for the cars mods etc

 

and the non cross faction still have some that are on the other side to be bought on armas and boxes

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1 hour ago, BuggedOut said:

The truth is, there is no single LTL weapon that 1 shot stuns. There are fast combinations, but the fastest LTL stun comes at the highest risk. 

Actually, the Stun grenade can 1 shot if the explosion in right on the target.

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4 minutes ago, ItzSpicy said:

Actually, the Stun grenade can 1 shot if the explosion in right on the target.

 

You're right I was inferring guns- edited.

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2 hours ago, Musul Man said:

There are things that must be fixed, that were never a good idea to begin with. Creating a big gap between Enforcers and Criminals, being beneficial only to enforcers. 

2

My dude... do what I do, swap back and forth between playing a crim and an enforcer and play both sides, then you lose out on nothing.  Once you realize how darn hard it is to get arrests as an enforcer, you'll see it's not really that imbalanced, there's just some pro LTL players.  By way of comparison, I was slammed by a tag team of crims using volcanos yesterday, and I don't think LTL could even compete with that.

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I use mainly crim, but I strongly disagree.

LTL is weak against any sort of teamwork, yes you stun the guy, but then you have to get rid of all his teammates in the area before he gets up again, the time to stun is also longer than other weapons (compared to OCA / ATAC / NTEC / STAR).

 

And regarding the vehicles, I think each excels at something, nothing overpowered in terms of faction, but even then, they are not faction specific, there are the rewarded vehicles when you rank up, and you can also buy them from Armas.

 

On a different perspective, maybe a more positive one, I think criminals can use an extra gun category or so to make up for the LTL, to add more fun, not to "balance it".

Edited by Necromancer66

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2 hours ago, BuggedOut said:

 

 

This. People are actually willing to have discussions on these forums- but when you approach without facts and data to back your claims, you will quickly lose their attention.

 

The truth is, there is no single LTL gun that 1 shot stuns (grenade excluded). There are fast combinations, but the fastest LTL stun comes at the highest risk.

 

The counter option for crims is the ability to generate loads of cash through ram-raiding, which enforcers can only bank on if they both witness and come out of it victorious. The ability to initiate ram-raids is criminal exclusive, and in many cases preferred over unlocking LTL.

 

As for the cars, can you provide examples?

Pioneer vs Espacio.

 

But other than that, yeah... Pretty much right there.

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LTL Weapons:

I don't think there is anything wrong with the LTL guns. Compared to the normal lethal weapons, they are straight downgrades because they not only stun slower in general, but they also mainly deal a completely different type of damage that does not synergize with the rest of your team unless they also use LTL. This, coupled with the fact that someone actually has to reach you in order to arrest you makes it unreliable and risky. LTL weapons have to stun people before they can be arrested, and while you're completely vulnerable during the stun, any situation where you get stunned would have instead been death if the enforcer was using a lethal weapon. And don't forget that if they fail to arrest, people coming out of stun are immune to stamina damage for a few seconds.

 

There are a few advantages with LTL weapons but I don't think they are unfair, considering the difficulties with LTL. There is currently no way to mitigate LTL damage (stamina damage), unlike green mods like Clotting Agent for health damage. This typically means that enforcers have a fairly generous timeframe to accumulate stamina damage on criminals, but this is the same as someone running without a Clotting Agent mod versus lethal weapons. Being downed and arrested means a higher overall respawn time for criminals (although they can be unarrested in that time, which is another risk for enforcers) but this is offset by the additional time needed for enforcers to perform that arrest. I would say that a stamina equivalent of Clotting Agent should be added to give criminals a similar option for improving stamina regeneration.

 

Vehicles:

I don't think the claim that vehicles are Enforcer-favoring is completely unfounded. In my opinion, the Pioneer is generally more useful than the Espacio because of its better weight and pushing capability. But that's pretty much the only clear preference that comes to mind. The Espacio itself has higher speed and acceleration (for reverse as well) so it is just a tradeoff, and they both have the same health. It's not even actually exclusive anymore because of Nomad.

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Just remove it from the game. Seriously. Just do it.

 

1. It's hard as shit-balls to do anyway. It's not even fun.

2. Crims can't stand it because it takes forever (not actually) to respawn. There might even be an argument in there about them causing Mission imbalances. I don't know. Don't really care, either.

 

Point is: It's not a very fun component in general. At best, it's a Troll component. I mean, yeah, I get it--cops, arrests--yeah yeah. It looks better on paper than it actually works.

 

I wouldn't hate it if they just removed it. I don't think anyone would miss it. Just get rid of it and end all this crap altogether once and for all.

 

Okay, sure. Crims still get to ram-raid. But that's been nerfed to hell and back. No one does it except that one guy who thinks it's so much fun.

 

Enforcers still get the sick lights and sirens. It's a fair trade if you ask me.

Edited by Zascha
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13 minutes ago, Shozonu said:

 I would say that a stamina equivalent of Clotting Agent should be added to give criminals a similar option for improving stamina regeneration.

Wasn't that a thing way back when but it got implemented for all characters instead of being an equipable mod? Think the idea was that it was so needed vs ltl that it was made perm for everyone. But yeah I would be glad if it went back to that instead. Everyone has lower stamina so arrests are easier.

 

Energizer! That's what it was. Took some google fu to find that.

 

Edited by SelttikS

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Please do not make a habbit of giving new players like this that dont know wtf they are talking about any consideration like g1 mistakenly did and actually listen to the players that do know wtf they are talking about and have been here for years. Thx in advance lil orbit

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5 minutes ago, Percocet said:

Please do not make a habbit of giving new players like this that dont know wtf they are talking about any consideration like g1 mistakenly did and actually listen to the players that do know wtf they are talking about and have been here for years. Thx in advance lil orbit

^this

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