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Bronze district should be ashamed of itself, and why in god's name is LO doing nothing about it?

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wow i’m late on this one

 

not gonna read the thread since i assume its is a rehash of decade old arguments 

 

heres mine: dethreating will exist until threat is less exploitable and it’s difficult/impossible to intentionally get opped against lower threats/new players - whether this means phasing, deleting threat levels, hyperstrict GMs, whatever, is up to little orbit to decide

 

 

Edited by Glaciers
typo

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The new player experience in this game is just all around terrible. The tutorial isn't very good and things take too long to unlock, and are unclear in how you unlock them. 

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13 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

 This has been an obvious problem for years now, long before LO took over, and yet to this day nothing is done about it. Its depressing really.

 

 

5 hours ago, Mitne said:

Wow, you just discovered what everybody know for years, Cooky.

Please read more carefully.

2 hours ago, Bishada8800 said:

GREEN is the beginner / low threat district

No one plays in Green or Gold districts. Surely you are aware of this.  Bronze is the only place beginners play. Silver is non beginners. This is the reality.

1 hour ago, UnawarePolarBear said:

On Jericho, people are having to de-threat just to play Financial :). Maybe when the population is fixed (if they'd just prioritize that ol' engine upgrade) it wouldn't be too bad.

Again, as has been stated silver is only this empty because so many players would rather dethreat and stomp than play where they belong.

12 minutes ago, Sayori said:

You say it's full of vets but you claim you have played only with fbw to make it fair.

To make it fair for new players. No vet should ever go HAM in bronze district... ever.

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4 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

 

 

To make it fair for new players. No vet should ever go HAM in bronze district... ever.

Dude, you said it's full of vets with legendaries(as if it means anything) and shit, volcano spam. So why exactly you go with fbw to make it fair? Sounds like contradiction.

And those vets whom you refer to, that go "ham", they play against other vets. They are literally silvers and "fake golds". They can't f...ing play in their own district.

Oh, noes, wait.  I can hear "There are not enough golds to play in gold" excuse.  Sure thing, lets go roflstomp the silvers! And where the silvers go? That's right - they go to bronze.

I'm all in for newbie district though...except that those players will have to wait 30 minutes to get a mission.  Must be exciting.

 

All we can do is wait for engine update(lul) and cross-district matchmaking. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sayori said:

Dude, you said it's full of vets with legendaries(as if it means anything) and shit, volcano spam. So why exactly you go with fbw to make it fair? Sounds like contradiction.

As was made perfectly clear, this was about the new player experience. I have no interest in taking candy from babies. This is the difference between me and dethreaters.

 

3 minutes ago, Sayori said:

 

They can't f...ing play in their own district.

As was explained, there are two types of districts in APB at this point. Bronze is where beginners go. Silver should be for non beginners. Color has lost all meaning when it comes to districts. Im not sure how much more clear I can make that.

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1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Please read more carefully.

I think everyone in the thread is just stunned you post this now, Nothing really changed.

I'm sorry this has become personal for you as you're friends now feel deterred but what did you think the previous complaints from new players were for? Just some red herring, they're incompetent or maybe it was just some sort of meme?

 

It is a valid complaint that has been made repeatedly for year and multiple suggestions have been made include a hard threat level restricts to districts.

...I'm confused what the purpose of this thread if for, the 1 SPCT member is going to get the attention of Little Orbit more than the 500 or so other complaints from new players? 

 

 

Honestly I'm not trying to come across hostile or antagonistic right now but you're trying to shame people who do this consciously, completely under their own volition, with full knowledge and understanding of what they're doing.

Are you seriously trying to shame those that are shameless into stopping? You know we're on the internet right, telling someone to stop on the internet is going to have the opposite affect and they're going to mock you.

 

 

The issue of dethreaters in Bronze district stomping on new players needs a solution from Little Orbit.

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Just now, VickyFox said:

...I'm confused what the purpose of this FORUM is for

There, fixed it for you.

1 minute ago, VickyFox said:

The issue of dethreaters in Bronze district stomping on new players needs a solution from Little Orbit.

^this^

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2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

There, fixed it for you.

Are you trolling right now?

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2 minutes ago, VickyFox said:

Are you trolling right now?

Honestly sometimes its hard for even me to tell, but no.

 

Sometimes I don't know what the forums are for either... since feedback doesn't always seem to be heard.

 

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Just now, CookiePuss said:

Honestly sometimes its hard for even me to tell, but no.

 

Sometimes I don't know what the forums are for either... since feedback doesn't always seem to be heard.

 

I'm pretty sure a Thread is an individual topic of a Forum/Sub Forum.

You really don't make it easy tell what should be considered seriously or to be taken as a joke at times. 

 

 

Personally I'd suggest to Little Orbit would be to do a complete review of the threat system, something in it surely can be improved to give a more average ranking to make dethreating more harder.

Also threat segregation should be removed, players and mix with other threats but give an incentive for players to stick to their threats with a 50% reward penalty for being in a district 1 threat lower and 80% for being in a district 3 threats lower.

 

Now to some new comers and cynical people this would be a redundant move to let players move go to what ever district they want, The reasoning behind this is to allow districts times to acclimatise and to return under their own terms rather than using force and giving reason for players to try and circumnavigate the threat system.

 

I am also very much an advocate that new players should get a mix of players including harder opponents now and then to become a better player.

 

There have been a lot of suggestions to give GM more responsibility to kick / move players form districts for being too high of a threat and rank.

Honestly I think this would be a waste of GM's time when they could be giving advice and support to those new players if the game itself could try and encourage players to stick to their respective threat districts.

 

 

I could post this to the Suggestions and Ideas forum but honestly I feel jaded that my suggestion would just not be read by Little Orbit and it'll slowly go down the list of pages and forgotten.

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"There aren't enough golds to play in gold district" 

 

I was there waiting when they locked it. I was part of that little group of peeps some years ago, who wanted to bring people into gold by joining the districts and waiting. I can use that as an excuse tbh. Regardless, ideally only the top 10% of current golds should actually be gold. Problem is with this pop we are looking at like 20 people in that case. Perhaps a new threat level above gold would be nice, but that will only be a nice change if we have more players. Hopefully after phasing and threat being reworked, harder measures will be taken against de-threaters as well.

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This has been going on forever, people are there for multiple reasons and according to me their reasons for being there are not valid.

 

If streamsnipin justifies a ban why do we even allow this?

Edited by Mozie
Im not talking about the people who should play there ;);)

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28 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

"There aren't enough golds to play in gold district" 

 

I was there waiting when they locked it. I was part of that little group of peeps some years ago, who wanted to bring people into gold by joining the districts and waiting. I can use that as an excuse tbh. Regardless, ideally only the top 10% of current golds should actually be gold. Problem is with this pop we are looking at like 20 people in that case. Perhaps a new threat level above gold would be nice, but that will only be a nice change if we have more players. Hopefully after phasing and threat being reworked, harder measures will be taken against de-threaters as well.

surely gold (rank) is just a number. Why not just put the number up? This would instantly reduce the amount of golds. This may also encourage people who have just turned silver to strive for gold again but the number of people who actually achieve it will be less so it will be a prestigious position to be in. 

Also for the dethreating issue. If the amount of threat lost is slowed down to a nominal amount, it will take much much longer to dethreat and so in turn will probably make it less likely to happen.

 

I think the best solution is to prevent people being able to have account wide shit hot guns so that you cant simply make a new character and instantly have the best guns again. Also if you have a character that is over say threat 50, if you reroll a character you are not allowed back to the low level districts at all with your new guy as you will have at least enough experience to know how to play so there is no need for you to be able to go back to stomp on noobs.

 

Also remove the threat level icons for districts that are more than bronze. So there are Bronze for new players and the rest for better than new. Once you reach rank 50 no more access account wide for you to bronze as you now have the experience to play a higher tier game.

 

People need to take more pride in their achievements in APB. People who dethreat need to be perma banned.

Edited by Seedy
i need to read my post before i press post!

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15 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

tl;dr   APB has no place for new players because neither the player base nor LO will let them have one.

This is something I agree with. Both parties are to blame here for this issue. It has been proven time after time that the community must be babysat in order for the community to behave a certain way. If there are no repercussions for not behaving correctly, then the community exploits this and continues to behave poorly until someone is made an example of.

 

Is dethreating bad? Yes, we can all agree that dethreating is one of the major issues plaguing this game, but it is not the main issue that should be focused on. Fixing dethreating is as simple as district phasing and/or eliminating visual threat levels. The main issue is the community's prolonged toxicity and LO doing almost nothing about it. I play this game maybe once or twice a week and I still see the same individuals in dchat spouting racist and homophobic messages at a rapid pace. Sure I could just /ignore them, but that doesn't solve the issue here and it does not create a welcoming environment for those new players that you supposedly want to retain. My friends and myself don't play APB as much as we used to solely because of toxicity and how it's encouraged here. There are plenty of other games that are more welcoming than APB.

 

In my opinion, the dethreating issue would be dealt with quickly through active GMs and punishing toxicity as a whole. I know some dethreaters do what they do because bronze is less toxic than the silver districts. If the community as a whole was more welcoming, people would not feel the need to dethreat.

 

LO needs to make an example out of those repeat toxic offenders. I have reported a few through tickets and they have yet to be responded to. I can already guess the response I am going to receive and the lack of punishment that is going to occur due to chat logs being 1-2 weeks away.

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59 minutes ago, VickyFox said:

You really don't make it easy tell what should be considered seriously or to be taken as a joke at times.

That's fair. Im trying to do better.

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The very start of this cycle takes place in Silver, having to face Golds that don't know the thing called "missing shots". You know, the brains average accuracy is down right terrible yet we have people that rarely miss shots and pull off perfectly precise tracking. It really makes you think how screwed everything is when GMs and devs miss the most balantly obvious shit. Players in Silver are either forced to quit the game or dethreat to rofl stomp on players in Bronze, usually the ones that decide to dethreat instead of quitting, are often those that like degrading other people.

Edited by Glubbable

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I have also been saying for years the priority should be fixing this problem because this is why we aren't getting any higher player base! A lot of people here complain only about dethreters, yes i agree they are the worst and i really hate them but they are not the only problem here. If golds would play on gold districts a lot of the players that are now playing in bronze would play in silver.

 

When RIOT was revealed i knew right away this isn't going to bring any bigger player base and i was right. When you are already reading complains on the forums from veteran players how unfair is it playing solo vs 4 player teams how can you expect a new player will enjoy it.

 

It's clear dethreters are not getting punished for what they are doing that's why they keep doing it over and over again . I wonder if anybody ever is banned for anything else than cheating. You can literally see players using custom shaders and streaming, griefing missions, team killing and kicking players...but hey if all this players would be banned the game would probably die by now so is this why they are allowed to do everything what they want?

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11 hours ago, Ketog said:

 

K/D is never a good way to judge a player's performence tho, if two esports player kill each other over and over they will have a KD of 1 , but it i's the same story if two new players face each other, even tho they have the same KD, they will have a huge difference in terms of skill.

exactly why i dont know what to do.

1 hour ago, Seedy said:

Also if you have a character that is over say threat 50, if you reroll a character you are not allowed back to the low level districts at all with your new guy as you will have at least enough experience to know how to play so there is no need for you to be able to go back to stomp on noobs.

agreed. this would be a change for the better without destroying apb

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1 hour ago, Seedy said:

surely gold (rank) is just a number. Why not just put the number up? This would instantly reduce the amount of golds.

 

That wouldn't help with much at the moment due to the lack of population. You can't just raise the requirements and then somehow that would fix match-making, there won't be enough opposition for the higher-tier players. 

1 hour ago, Seedy said:

This may also encourage people who have just turned silver to strive for gold again but the number of people who actually achieve it will be less so it will be a prestigious position to be in. 

There will be two different reactions.

1. Players will 'tryhard' to get back to Gold. We'll need an active ELO system that removes ELO from inactive players constantly or on a daily base. (which might tax the servers more)

2. Players will then just play for fun and no one will get better as there will be no reason to face the top players. 

 

If you want people to STRIVE for something you need to make Gold something you want to play in. It's like just playing competitive match-making on CS and then thinking "hmm maybe I could get better by playing FaceIt/ESEA". With the top tier of those platforms players compete for cash prizes, so people strive to be really good at the game. If there was a bonus for being Gold and playing in a Gold district eg. Joker Tickets (now that there are actual permanent weapons), bonus contact standing, bonus APB$, weapon trials selectors, skin selectors maybe players would want to be Gold.

 

As I've said before about Bronze districts/Silvers(Piss Golds) in Bronze:

 

On 6/12/2019 at 4:32 PM, iRawwwN said:

If you do not understand the 'essence of the game' after 200hrs maybe a TPS/MMO game isn't for you. It's not even that detailed compared to many other MMOs on the market. Yeah, of course having a lower ping is an advantage, that's why games try have many server locations; to provide the best playing experience. If you willingly play a game with more than 250ms that's your own problem. 

I understand you want to play with friends but your friends and yourself should not be playing against newbies.

 

No one with more than 200hrs should be versing sub 25hrs players. You might not have ping or 'reflexes' as advantages, but with APB being a Third-Person-Shooter you have the element of surprise. You don't always need to have better aim, better locations/strategies can work out in your favour too. Not to mention many of the weapons that a higher ranked/more experienced player would have.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by iRawwwN

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3 hours ago, Sayori said:

Dude, you said it's full of vets with legendaries(as if it means anything) and shit, volcano spam. So why exactly you go with fbw to make it fair? Sounds like contradiction.

And those vets whom you refer to, that go "ham", they play against other vets. They are literally silvers and "fake golds". They can't f...ing play in their own district.

Oh, noes, wait.  I can hear "There are not enough golds to play in gold" excuse.  Sure thing, lets go roflstomp the silvers! And where the silvers go? That's right - they go to bronze.

I'm all in for newbie district though...except that those players will have to wait 30 minutes to get a mission.  Must be exciting.

 

All we can do is wait for engine update(lul) and cross-district matchmaking. 

 

Wtf am I reading 

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3 things I still don`t understand:

1. As OP said, why LO don`t take any actions against dethreat.

2. Why LO thinks that new players can learn the game by playing (getting fcked-up every mission) with vets?

3. Why vets play in bronze district? How they find it entertaining? I really can`t understand that.

 

My suggestions:

1. Do not allow accounts to enter bronze district if they have x amount hours of gameplay.

2. Once account reached gold, he can`t join bronze district ever again. But account can still dethreat to silver, bronze rank. 

 

I believe second option is better. Because if vet decides to create new account, he can`t perform too well, he must play as typical silver. 

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i don't really have anything to contribute relevant to the op, but here's something that i've been confused about for a long time:

 

what is the actual mental process that promotes dethreating / playing against babies? it's not fun. most of the time it may as well be the equivalent of playing a bot match, just an unproductive point-and-click waste of time.

 

i feel like apb's district & matchmaking system is inherently flawed because of people like this though. as it stands, it's as if in csgo everyone below LE was matched together, and everyone above LE was matched together. the people playing genuinely on the high end of the low bucket only face a perpetual meat-grinder, don't actually get any better while playing, rank up and then quickly get kicked back down. the district threat system is a neat idea, maybe it would work if apb had 3x the number of threats (and the playerbase to match), but in its current state with the current population is showing plain well its problems.

Edited by Uru!
a word

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2 minutes ago, Uru! said:

i don't really have anything to contribute relevant to the op, but here's something that i've been confused about for a long time:

 

what is the actual mental process that promotes dethreating / playing against babies? it's not fun. most of the time it may as well be the equivalent of playing a bot match, just an unproductive point-and-click waste of time.

 

i feel like apb's district & matchmaking system is inherently flawed because of people like this though. as it stands, it's as if in csgo everyone below LE was matched together, and everyone above LE was matched together. the people playing genuinely on the high end of the low bucket only face a perpetual meat-grinder, don't actually get any better while playing, rank up and then quickly get kicked back down. the district threat system is a neat idea, maybe it would work if apb had 3x the number of threats, but in its current state with the current population is showing plain well its problems.

Same, when last time did you have fun against bots in cs? Personally then I was 12

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1 hour ago, Glubbable said:

Players in Silver choose to rofl stomp on players in Bronze.

fixed it for ya

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7 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

fixed it for ya

Or they are forced to quit. Thank you for misquoting me.

Edited by Glubbable

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