LilyRain

Thanks, Little Orbeet!

Very true

The 2nd Corona-wave will destroy the World's economy.

Kindly quote where I said make LTLs as powerful as lethal weapons, you can't and won't.

I have already said this before in a parallel LTL-thread and I'll say it again Less than Lethal doesn't mean more time to neutralize targets, more time to equip nor does it mean inaccuracy-nonsense like the TG-8's. I'd like you to get tazed in real-life then walk away from it like it was nothing then speak about what "should" and shouldn't be. The only thing that is faster than a Tazer is a shot to the head (which don't exist in APB, but half-bricks and other things do that in its place). ---------------------------------------------------------------- And speaking of "thinking", whatever you are thinking will never be right when your numbers are wrong or outright refraining from referring to weapon-stats. It truly is that simple. Perhaps your lack of knowledge in weapon stats is the reason why you were arrested so much and developed LTL-phobia.

I wouldn't call the fastest primary LTL (CCG) requiring 1.05 seconds to stun against a 0.6s to kill OCA "at a perfect place" and most people won't either. It is time to use numbers before making further conclusive-comments.

That situation is another reason why LO should've nerfed percs rather than the PIG. Not only PIG+perc remains the same, but hiding behind cover easily allows for the 2nd perc to be thrown, completely negating the stamina-nerf on the PIG. Most of the time the 2nd perc won't be needed, but it is still an option that increases the margin of error, making the cheese even more cheesy. LTL was KINDA okay against OCA if the Enforcer was skilled (new players won't know how to make it work), now it is borderline out of reach with OCA's unnecessary buff. Up to 0.6 seconds time-to-kill is just insane. The rewards don't cut it either, considering the OCA will win most of the time.. and re-arresting freed-players that didn't die or respawn gives nothing. No score, no nothing. The current weapon balance changes are incomplete. LO must either roll them back or further compensate elsewhere by buffing LTL as a whole (and percs would still deserve a nerf then). We are experienced. We played APB for years, therefore it was second-nature to us. The current state is just rage-driven and further nerfs what was massively-nerfed years ago. This is not the way. But it is okay for LO to roll-back the OCA-nerfs that were deemed too much and rolled back? Why was RSA heavily nerfed too? The patch makes zero sense & the news page that explains the changes shows incompetence when it comes to weapon balancing.

Right on the mark. High-tier players never complain about LTL. Let us be real, those tactics are much more demanding than OCA and ATAC.

Yeah, it is very clear who is "butthurt" Get your facts straight next time before thinking you can contribute to balancing the game. Half-bricks don't need to travel far, not by a long shot.... They are NOT an 8-ball reskin like a lot of people seem to believe. They are fundamentally different. It amuses me that you don't know this since the most popular APB-streamer, Kempington, kills 3 opponents in his stream-intro with half-bricks. You see this EVERY time he goes live.. Is this difficult to verify? Might wanna refrain from using your current terminologies in the forums ("smooth brain") and actually see things for yourself. But then again, we both know that you are well-aware that you have no facts to back yourself up with. For your information: Anyone who called the old-PIG "overpowered" instantly became a meme. Refrain from doing so in the future, for your own sake.

"Brick" is a car modification... "Half-bricks" are the ones to be thrown, learn the difference. And no.. the one that needs to "travel a long distance" is the 8-ball. Half-bricks don't need to travel far at all. I am not upset at all, you simply did not read anything in this thread.. Our stance is to have percussion grenades nerfed, not the PIG. That was the right thing to do and would've actually naturally fixed PIG+perc (plus other cheesy combinations such as perc+aces and perc+OCA). The current change failed to nerf PIG+perc, it nerfed LTL but not the cheesy combo that actually should go away. And the PIG was not "overpowered".

It still doesn't "change" what you have said.. You said the PIG is a gimmick, which is not.. it is a tazer.. this is its job I laughed in half-bricks, which are the REAL gimmick.. They aren't a secondary nor a primary either. They CAN KILL with 1 throw, something PIG never did. Don't downplay the role of the PIG as a "gimmick" when clearly more out-of-place gimmicks exist. Merged. He is trolling in a new-account to see APB decline further. Just a bunch of people who don't want to see this game be a fraction better

So you were saying PIG 1 shots, but now you are saying it requires percs.. okay Don't keep bouncing back and forth please.

Laughs in Half-Bricks... And no, PIG didn't stun in 1 shot. A "tazer" is also not a gimmick.. that is what it does..

Only if LTL gets buffed to where it should be.

That's another problem, it wasn't nerfed at all. It is still easy and cheap to do They confessed they wanted to keep the strategy of perc+PIG remain the same "This should preserver the strategy..." They should've nerfed percs rather than the PIG. That would've actually changed everything

Interesting. Very interesting.. What makes you so sure? Who is leaking information to you from LO/SPCT?

It is okay for LTL to be weaker than lethal weapons & that should be case, since Criminals have no access to them (or else re-skins as stolen-police weapons or whatever might be a necessary inclusion). The problem is that this is being used as an excuse to over-nerf LTL, which were already nerfed beyond existence by G1. There is no "risk/reward" when going against the currently buffed OCA (0.67s to kill and potentially 0.6s with cj3) with a weapon that stuns in 1.05.. This isn't risk, this is throwing the match. The gap need not be this large by any measure. The time needed for arrested-Criminals to respawn can and should be reduced as well. It is very doable.

The reason why LTL is nerfed to the ground is the flawed-understanding of the term "less than lethal". Less than Lethal means the weapon is less likely to kill than lethal weapons, period. It doesn't mean they are slower in neutralizing targets, less accurate or take longer to equip and fire. If anything Tazers are the fastest way to neutralize any target (headshots excluded, which don't exist in APB anyway). While LTL is kept weaker than Lethal weapons to prevent injustice to Criminal-characters (and that's fine), the gap need not be this ridiculously huge. It is naturally this huge because the gaps between Lethal-weapons themselves are huge as well. Weapon Balancing in this game currently puts a lot of emphasis on loadout-choices to the point where even perfect-plays without missing a shot or skipping a beat won't be enough despite the opponent actually missing a shot or two. It is simply wrong for a shooter to have player-skill be less than weapon-choice, no matter how you look at it. I really wish this would change even if by a little bit or APB won't be going anywhere. --------------------------------------------- - Gentle reminder that the OCA's ttk is no longer 0.7s, it is 0.672 without any cooling jacket at all, which would be a rare-sight. People at least run cooling jacket 2 and most would run cooling jacket 3 considering this weapon got a massive-buff, crouch-accuracy-buff as well (0.64s and 0.6s time-to-kills respectively). - DMR with Heavy-Barrel 3 becomes an LTL-sniper, it takes roughly the same time to stun as the NL9. That alone tells how slow the NL9 currently is. - Adding to the list of Cons, re-arresting a freed-Criminal without them dying again DOES NOT COUNT. Meaning it negates the slightly ever so small extra rewards as well as mission-score every now and then. There is also no blitzkrieg-equivalent for successive arrests, but mowing down people with an Euryale is pretty much Guaranteed MVP of the match. --------------------------------------------- CCG With the weapon's fire-rate being 0.15s, that's the increment-value that will translate to time-to-stun if the required number of shots is modified. Setting CCG to 6 shots would bring time-to-stun down to 0.75. That's STAR-grade time in CQC and still miles away from submachine-guns and shotguns. 7 shots is 0.9s time-to-stun and would still be injust to player skill, 6 is the better choice. CCG's fire-rate must be buffed slightly as well to bring it down to a workable 0.72 seconds (so that it won't be as fast as n-tec, carbine, tas20, etc) (0.15 → 0.144). While at it, bring STAR, Condor and the like's ttks down a bit to 0.71 or 0.715, they need not be that far behind n-tec and FAR considering they recover slow. - The weapon's equip time of 1 full-second is also ridiculous and can guarantee death. Bring it down to 0.8s like everything else. TG-8 It indeed is inaccurate with its bloom-mechanic that should not exist. 1 Second to stun is fine as the weapon is comparable to the FBW. Still a disadvantage against Colby .45 at arrest-range but it is fine. - The weapon for some reason is set to equip at a ridiculously-high time of 0.6s. Bring it down to FBW's time of 0.35s as it is comparable to that weapon. NL-9 2 shots are good for this weapon indeed. Reduce its fire interval as well (0.78s → 0.72s). But to compensate, reduce its range from 50 meters to 18m as the weapon should be a shotgun, not a sniper or a long-range dart-shooter (like who thought this was a good idea? Cops don't arrest at 50 meters) (or 15m for max damage if the weapon is given a trending-damage rather than have the slug vanish from existence at max range). - Bring the Equip time from 0.9s down to 0.8 like other shotguns. PIG A tazer should have immense stopping-power, but it shouldn't extend beyond what is reasonable. Buff the weapon's stamina damage back up to 950, but reduce its range from 9m to 6m. - Although it is a secondary. Giving it its power back is okay and good reason to have its equip-time remain at 0.6 seconds. O-PGL CD With progression in mind for incoming-players, the weapon is awarded at max cop-rank (level 15) and is nothing but a fun-item. Even though it is inferior in damage to the lethal-PGL, its blast-radius compensates, therefore it is fine as is. - The weapon equips exactly as fast as O-PGL 79R (1.3s), therefore no need to change its equip time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Afterwards, we can move forward to reducing gaps between Lethal-weapons themselves for a more fair experience. There will always be meta, but meta need not be that much ridiculously far ahead. Also nerf percussion grenades

That's exactly as to why you aren't capable of comprehending the situation nor remotely able to speak when it comes to weapon balancing. Criminals would only need to have their own weapons if and only if LTL is ever made overpowered, which is not the case. It is very clear that you are jealous of LTLs. Jealousy, anger and personal-feelings don't belong in Weapon Balancing, period. It seems you were living under a rock... Gentle reminder that Kempington (which you have a crush on) is the man who was defending the Improved Rifling 3 changes a while back. Those changes were reverted simply because they were too much & poorly thought through... what do you have to say about that? Anyone who takes SPCTs as some sort of Bible should not be listened to.

Precisely, which are superior to Less Than Lethals in EVERY way. The nerf was uncalled for and nobody was able to justify it. The same can be said towards the OCA-buff and RSA-nerf. Nothing about this Weapon Balance patch was remotely proper. Rather than spam the forums with "stupid" and "I am sane", perhaps do what SPCTs couldn't do and actually provide proper justification to the changes? P.S: Your quote also shows that you English-comprehension is not good enough for a forum discussion. But in response to your question: Criminals do not need a weaker-option than what they currently have. The non-LTL arsenal already blows LTL out of the water.

The teamplay argument is as false as abusing corners. Anything would triumph with those, that's how APB is. A coordinated team with lethal weapons would also wreck a coordinated team with LTL. Criminals had and still have better options than the PIG, it was never overpowered nor needed a fix.

Just avoid 1 versus 1s and gang on people, eh? As if those who will now main the buffed-OCA won't gang on people either. Flawed logic

Actually, the FBW gets to shoot twice before the PIG is equipped.. FBW wins this. OCA with cj3 now kills in 0.6. You are 'OCA', you should know what you can do. That's exactly what needs to be fixed here, Percussion Grenades. Imagine failing that much and getting arrested. Up your game. lol, when will you refrain from showing your lack of knowledge?

I am glad you posted this quote. Do you find it difficult to land a Percussion Grenade...? That is another problem with this change. Not only it fails to achieve the claimed-purpose... and not on top of that it failed by not compensating for the indirect-nerfs.. It was also centered around Silvers and Bronzes. Gold players throw grenades perfectly for much longer distances. Some can half-brick up to 100m. Some do it more than that, Kempington managed that on stream as well. Golds would never mess up a Percussion Grenade within 9 meters, which is the field-of-play when using PIG+perc. Hell even Silvers won't, the current radius is still easy to land. This change catered to low-tier players. Weapon Balancing should NEVER be centered on the sub-average level.

False, the idea behind the nerf was to make PIG+perc more difficult, which is not the case at all. And no.. 0.9s is not useful for more players. That is a flat out lie.