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CombatMedic02

APB 2022 Roadmap Discussion

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I'm most surprised that this isn't an announcement about how you are abandoning the IP.  But I guess that will come after struggling with this plan in a year or two.  APB has always been a mess, its the concept that everyone wants.  The solution has always been to build a new APB from scratch.  Maintain the customization options and some of the comic book/anime feel(like the ragdolls and over the top city theme) and just redo everything.  LO has had APB since 2018, add a couple more years for this roadmap stuff to be done and that will be 6 years.  5 of those years could have been spent on this.

 

Ultimately with nothing to show thats playable and done, and starting a new direction now that is basically "we will reshape the turd!" it feels like more of the same.  Wasted time and overpromised updates/plans.  Been like that since RTW.

 

But hey if this roadmap fails you could always consider making an APB mod for Cyberpunk 2077.

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On 1/29/2022 at 6:11 AM, Uke said:

https://www.gamersfirst.com/apb/news/2022/1/29/apb-2022-roadmap

2018: "We have to upgrade the engine to implement some of the features that will fix the game"

2022: "Actually, we just gonna implement them into the old version lol"

 

What am I missing? If you could do that, why didn't you do it from the start?

 

Also, what about the port to UE4. Is it still happening? Was it ever? @MattScott

These are actual quotes from the official blog.

"...we are committed to upgrading APB Reloaded to the Unreal 4 engine."
"...our 2nd team is working on Unreal 4. This will not be a short project, but it has lots of milestones along the way."

 

This "2nd team" has been apparently working on UE4 for over 3 years now, anything to show?

This doesn't appear to have been mentioned in a blog post anywhere which is maybe why it was missed, possibly in one of the streamed Q&As somewhere but the whole UE4 idea was scrapped within a year of it starting.  Nothing of it exists and it was really nothing more than a pipe dream/idea of Matts to begin with.

 

On 1/29/2022 at 7:50 PM, BlatMan said:

Is 1.3 going to be on a newer version of the engine? I thought the current engine didn't have 64 bit support.

1.3 will be the current version of the engine.  What they're gonna be doing is changing out a bunch of internals and upgrading them from 32bit to 64bit. 

 

8 hours ago, Sleuthman said:

So I've got this right, is this about the size of it in a nutshell?

 

omCqhTi.jpg

Your timeline is somewhat wrong, 1.20 started in either 2017 or 2016.  Engine work iirc started in early 2014 or late 2013.  As of i guess this week, nothing is gonna happen with 3.5/2.x as its been put on hold basically indefinitely.

 

 

Frankly one can maybe think of this as a half win, we're not getting the engine but considering the engine was someone elses work to begin with (as in, not exclusively Reloadeds work like a lot of people think it is), this seems like a much more manageable goal.    Kinda hope we see something of it this year.

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8 minutes ago, SkittyM said:

Frankly one can maybe think of this as a half win, we're not getting the engine but considering the engine was someone elses work to begin with (as in, not exclusively Reloadeds work like a lot of people think it is), this seems like a much more manageable goal.    Kinda hope we see something of it this year.

 

I'm by no means an expert in software development or managing projects of this kind, but it does seem remarkable that it has taken this long for a realisation that downscaling objectives was necessary. I do understand from Matt's previous posts that there were a number of methods they believed would be succesful, but I barely believed a full engine upgrade would have been enough at this point, let alone the new set of targets they have listed in the road-map here.

 

Whilst many of those planned changes, such as fixing RTX crashing would be very welcome, it really is only scratching the surface of the problems facing the game currently. The Engine Upgrade was only ever going to be the beginning of a new phase for APB, one where after launch the developers would still have had to work extremely hard to maintain any playerbase.

 

I think the issue here is while these goals may be more managable, for all the former players (supposedly, although I guess I am one by this point) hanging around awaiting news, it will be very difficult to communicate how these new set of changes will make a difference, without being drowned out by the fact that the Engine Upgrade has been cancelled. Regardlless of how this news affects the game long term, it's still a blow to know the update which has been "under development" for over half the game's life has now been permanently shelved.

 

Which for a game whose average Steam player base hovers barely above 200 is hardly very encouraging.

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18 minutes ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

 

I'm by no means an expert in software development or managing projects of this kind, but it does seem remarkable that it has taken this long for a realisation that downscaling objectives was necessary. I do understand from Matt's previous posts that there were a number of methods they believed would be succesful, but I barely believed a full engine upgrade would have been enough at this point, let alone the new set of targets they have listed in the road-map here.

 

Whilst many of those planned changes, such as fixing RTX crashing would be very welcome, it really is only scratching the surface of the problems facing the game currently. The Engine Upgrade was only ever going to be the beginning of a new phase for APB, one where after launch the developers would still have had to work extremely hard to maintain any playerbase.

 

I think the issue here is while these goals may be more managable, for all the former players (supposedly, although I guess I am one by this point) hanging around awaiting news, it will be very difficult to communicate how these new set of changes will make a difference, without being drowned out by the fact that the Engine Upgrade has been cancelled. Regardlless of how this news affects the game long term, it's still a blow to know the update which has been "under development" for over half the game's life has now been permanently shelved.

 

Which for a game whose average Steam player base hovers barely above 200 is hardly very encouraging.

I think a part of why it took so long was cause while a number of us (including LO) were thinking it wouldn't work, we still wanted to see it work.    The only thing i personally know is 3D art stuff and world building so i can only really compare it to wanting to create something and digging yourself into a deep rut of ideas and then having to actually back pedal on a lot of them because they simply do not work.  Though you realize that much later in that process.  Not sure how to really elaborate on it really, my explaining skills are terrible.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND HOWEVER.  This change doesn't mean LO is only focusing on just technical stuff.  It's still too early to tell but from what i'm aware of, their content plans and other game improvement ideas are still on the table...  Somewhere... 

 

The ultimate question though is when does any of this happen.

 

Edited by SkittyM

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11 hours ago, Sleuthman said:

So I've got this right, is this about the size of it in a nutshell?

 

omCqhTi.jpg

Almost it, except when reloaded production had the game, their engine upgrade was absolutely horrible, LO basically restarted doing their own when they aquired apb and saw RP's work

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The experience of the past years makes Matt's words incredulous. All this is sad. It is better to spend the last air, blow through the kingstones and ascend, than to breathe this air, waiting for death at the bottom.

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Should have just went with APB 2 from scratch and ported some of the models into it.

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This company is a definition of failure, false promises and taking on projects they are not capable to complete. They killed the population by putting the game on autopilot and now the population is dead and the engine update is dead as well, you can't make this up. At this point you might as well close up the game since the remaining population will not be able to cover the server costs. If they messed up so hard on this, what can you say for the future projects they are working on. 

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So, we're going to change strategies for 2022:

 

- We will be freezing the 2.2 code base and switching back to development on 1.20.

- We will be versioning the 1.20 code base into a new APB 1.30 code repository.

- We will be upgrading the APB 1.30 code base so we can use modern compilers like Visual Studio 2019 instead of 2012.

- We will be upgrading APB 1.30 to 64-bit by upgrading our libraries to the same versions already in-use in APB 2.2. We already have all the code modifications in APB 2.2 to support these newer libraries.

- We will address the RTX crashes and frame rate hitches that are based on the current 32-bit memory limitations.

 

What this means practically is that rather than chase large engine upgrade that remains out of reach, we can focus on updates that serve our current player base now, so you guys can finally benefit from some of our work.

 

After that, I want to do a series of smaller sprints that can each be released to players:

 

- Back port the cooked package system into 1.30. This will massively improve load times.

- Back port the newer network code from 2.2 which will enable us to continue development on cross world play in 1.30.

- Back port the DirectX 11 renderer (and potentially a DirectX 12 renderer as well).

- Make a pass on fixing bad geometry and collisions that exist in the game today.

- Back port console support for Xbox One, Xbox X, PS4, and PS5 and make minimum changes to the UI

 

Essentially, we've wasted enough time trying to make the leap forward into a code base that has struggled for years. Now, since the code bases are so similar after our efforts in 2021, we will be picking and choosing bits to pull into the current game till we get all of the same features I wanted from 2.2.

So basically is what we want it from the engine in 1st place if u stop and think about it for a sec. and not jumpin into emotional conclusions.The game will be upgraded visually,will be more optimized and new content will be added easier.I mean if some1 told with the engine we gonna also get some big map like financial,some finan/waterfront merge or the game /pop will surpass the /pop of gta v-i mean it wasnt objective.I also have crazy dreams about the game but we must get back to the reality.Anyway who knows-the game may start growin and u never know what the future holds...

Edited by AlienTM

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On 1/29/2022 at 11:32 AM, CombatMedic02 said:

Edited by ComFeyer: the 2022 roadmap can be read here: https://www.gamersfirst.com/apb/news/2022/1/29/apb-2022-roadmap

 


I'm just gutted that until the RTX crashes get fixed I can't jump into the game for more then half an hour these days without crashing to desktop.

 

Hopefully the RTX issues will be fixed sooner rather then later, still holding out hope anyway.

YES maybe i can play again! unplayable since i made this upgrade to my pc

 

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Well if the community wanted the engine upgrade then I don't want it, all the shit you've asked for over the years killed the /pop.

As long as the updates will improve performance why would you be crying? ;);)

 

 

 

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Honestly i want them to support proton and enable battle eye for proton but i wonder why they don't switch to unreal 4 instead those older unreal engines are a pain to work in compare to unreal 4 and ue4 is pretty easy to work on and is a joy to use but there might be a reason why also i am happy they took this decision since knowing from experience from game development and the way it looking for them it would take month and even a full year or two to make this happen i just hope they can fix it if they can't well i hope they open source apb so it doesn't become dead and fans can make servers to keep the game alive am in a another commuity for a old bungie game called Oni and we made a engine upgrade by rebuilding it to add more features and keep that game alive i just hope they can make apb great again and fix the shit gamerfirst did with apb in the last few years   

Edited by PostalDude2001
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On 1/29/2022 at 6:11 AM, Uke said:

https://www.gamersfirst.com/apb/news/2022/1/29/apb-2022-roadmap

2018: "We have to upgrade the engine to implement some of the features that will fix the game"

2022: "Actually, we just gonna implement them into the old version lol"

 

What am I missing? If you could do that, why didn't you do it from the start?

 

<snip>

This was covered briefly in Matt's update, but much of our efforts this year were to integrate the 1.20 and 2.2 code bases. This means we have the capability to add upgrades to 1.20 that we didn't have previously.

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good. not even being sarcastic, this is good. thank you for doing the right thing. like as players who've been around since forever told many times over, stop chasing clouds. the game is good, just make it run a little better and put out content, advertise the game and collaborate with people that make money from youtube, twitch and alike. pay small streamers to play the game and low key bot their streams. win-win, you see? 

 

i support your decision, little orbit people. and i believe many other veterans will also come around.

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This is probably for the better all things considered. Does this mean that you will finally shift focus and fix the weapon balance?

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Buff Cisco, buff ISSR-a, buff Thumper, buff Cobr-a. ty 😉

 

Edit: And give us account bound CBMP "Arrow"

Edited by owzzy

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Can't say I'm shocked or even mildly surprised by this turn of events, LO threw up so many red flags during their first few months with this game that it was only a matter of time.

 

The only thing that really surprises me is that it took LO this long to realise the inevitable, says it all really.

 

Maybe they shoulda stuck to making Barbie games for 5yr olds .

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We will be freezing the 2.2 code base and switching back to development on 1.20

Should have focused on that from the moment you acquired APB. Why bother even porting something over that's so broken in the first place. Efforts should have been made on fixing and upgrading the current game instead.

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Whats this mean for VOIP?  There's a recent game i play that uses VIVOX and think it works great

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5 hours ago, DOUBLEY said:

Whats this mean for VOIP?  There's a recent game i play that uses VIVOX and think it works great

Good question. Vivox was really great at keeping players online as it gave life to Social District.

 

unknown.png

 

But assuming 1.3 succeeds in going Live, I am hopeful for VOIP because 1.3's will supposedly have modern repositories and code libraries. At that point, I don't see why a voice-protocol won't work if LO and Vivox agree to support VOIP for APB.

Edited by LilyRain

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lol. this is hilariously sad. When LO took over, I said these people must be completely insane to buy a dead game like APBR. Then after they posted their direction of the game, I said it's a joke and they are no better than G1. I was downvoted to hell and people told me to STFU because "LO already doing more than G1 ever did" and that "LO will save APB". KEKW. Then over the years sometimes I browse this forum briefly and see the same people are now posting negative comments about APB and LO in general, which makes me lol and smh. Hate to say it but "I told you so". 

 

My gosh that sounds very smug of me. and I do feel very smug. I apologize.

 

Now the EU is finally dead, the question is "what is even the point now?" Seriously, what is even the point of fixing a game no one plays? I see a lot of posters with registration years from 2013-2014, I bet none of you have this game installed atm. I certainly don't, haven't in years, and none of my friends do either.

 

When you maintain a game, you need to have a way to keep the old player base, while attract new players. But what does APBR even have that can keep the old players and get new players in? Literally nothing. I bet a lot of people are going to say "the customization". True, APBR is unique in that aspect. But how many players play for that? Most people just wanna hop on and kill some sh1tz.

 

The game needs a complete rebrand, relaunch, on a new, modern engine that runs well on modern hardware. None of this will happen, so again, what is even the point of fixing something no one uses?

 

TBH, in the years they wasted on trying to port it to new engine, a competent dev team could probably have developed APB 2 from scratch. But I honestly do not believe LO's dev team is competent enough in order to pull that off.

 

On 1/30/2022 at 1:38 PM, Ketog said:

Personally think it's a waste of ressources that they backport all the EU stuff to live.

The current APB we have is a dirty hackjob, and porting modern stuff to it will only break it more than it already is, improved garbage is still garbage in the end, keeping all the efforts in the engine upgrade would mean more wait for us, but a better platfrom to grow APB from with a fresh start.

 

I really don't see a point on trying to maintain the game when it has such a low playerbase, it's just way too late to do that, there's thousands of people that follow APB's developpement and are ready to come back when something big happens, taking this more gradual approach will serve nothing other than give the returning players a feeling of apb being still being half assed.

Hopefully i'm wrong, but i think this is a bad decision, apb is just way too old to be taken back, it's a 12 years old game by now, and it needs more than just maintenance, it needs a fresh modern start which is what the engine upgrade would allow.

 

^ this post is really spot on.

 

On 1/30/2022 at 3:56 PM, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Matt do you regret buying APB yet instead of just continuing on with disney/cartoon games? 

 

You can be honest. This is a safe space.

 

^ I genuinely want to know the answer to this question too.

 

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So, they gonna do something with current version of the game now? ffs rly...

 

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