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What do you think ruined the game?

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10 hours ago, Yood said:

Communication, or lack thereof.

...GamersFirst...

 

10 hours ago, Yood said:

for new players, who are interested in GTA-esque free roam fun times. Alas, APB is not as similar to GTA as people who have never played it expect, and they find out there are barely any open world activities with over 10 minutes of content to them, and the only one that does is faction limited and nothing but a grind for cash.

APB: All Point Bulletin was being made at the same time as GTA 4. While APB may not have much interactivity in the open world, GTA 4 didn't have a online multiplayer mode and was intended to be single player as was all previous GTA games. APB was trying to capitalise on that. So we can't compare APB to GTA 5/online

 

Even then, you can't compare the APB to GTA 4 because the resources both developments had were starkly different. APB:All Point Bulletin wasn't even a finished product upon release.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

what do i think kills the game? repeated threads like this focusing on what we just covered in one of many different threads

This is just the forum. I'm sure many people's don't first impression of a game come from the forums, It may be a factor later on but this isn't a review on the steam store page.

 

 

 

APB was always a project that was too big for it's developer teams from the beginning, and the has left a trail of woe behind it ever since. Former Real Time World executive Colin McDonald described APB as "the silly person child of everything we've been striving towards"!

 

Gamersfirst took a great concept and milked the game's players as cash cow for all that they were worth.

I would be elated to have the name Gamersfirst dropped from Little Orbit. I am passionate about a lot of things to do with APB, but Gamersfirst was a f-cking mockery and a constant insult in both the name and quality of service provided!

Edited by VickyFox
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2 hours ago, SillyBear said:

Cheaters, really simple.

x-d

that's why every game is ruined

 

baseless hackusations are way more annoying than the actual hackers one ever encounters

plus, new players just learn to call everything that kills them either p2w or hacker.

 

but why would i argue with you xd

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The engine upgrade ruined APB. Once focus was put on the upgrade and away from updates, the game started to die. The upgrade should have been given less attention, or  at least not diverted away regular staff.
 

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20 minutes ago, VickyFox said:

...GamersFirst...

i mean, i do remember their monthly blog updates (from jotun). were nice times.

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

The engine upgrade ruined APB. Once focus was put on the upgrade and away from updates, the game started to die. The upgrade should have been given less attention, or  at least not diverted away regular staff.

worse even, they didn't actually work on the eu for pc much/at all basically (according to LO)

Edited by neophobia

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1 minute ago, neophobia said:

worse even, they didn't actually work on the eu for pc much/at all basically (according to LO)

then... what were they doing?

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1 minute ago, neophobia said:

i mean, i do remember their monthly blog updates. were nice times.

There was next to no interaction with the community, customer support was hardly better, I question if the suggestions or bug reports were ever read.

Communication is the form of interaction to convey a message from 1 entity to another, A blog post is indeed communication but it feels like a really (if not the most) shallow form of communication they could of done.

 

Just a monthly update written as a statement and throw onto the internet without a care for who reads it or what their thoughts are on it.

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4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

then... what were they doing?

sorry, i was wrong. lmao, and i was so sure of it.

On 11/21/2018 at 5:48 AM, MattScott said:

Reloaded had already done a lot of work on this upgrade before the consoles were released, however since the music editor was never included with console, it was also missing from the PC Unreal 3.5 code base. Additionally, there are also ~40 external libraries that needed to be upgraded.

i remembered it exactly the other way around, also posted by matt. but... no.

1 minute ago, VickyFox said:

There was next to no interaction with the community, customer support was hardly better, I question if the suggestions or bug reports were ever read.

Communication is the form of interaction to convey a message from 1 entity to another, A blog post is indeed communication but it feels like a really (if not the most) shallow form of communication they could of done.

 

Just a monthly update written as a statement and throw onto the internet without a care for who reads it or what their thoughts are on it.

eh, i think they were somewhat engaging with the community. i mean in the early days they also casually chatted at times. (hopefully also doing their jobs :^))

i think some even were in the irc channels?

 

and ye, i believe there was a statement that was similar to LOs regarding suggestions

 

bug reports were actually addressed and fixed. i've reported a clipping error once, was fixed a month after.

they also addressed some of the "not so lazy map fixes" or whatever it was called. but yeah, those days were over way too quickly.

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32 minutes ago, poochyena said:

The engine upgrade ruined APB. Once focus was put on the upgrade and away from updates, the game started to die. The upgrade should have been given less attention, or  at least not diverted away regular staff.
 

the engine upgrade was required for regular content updates, or at least that’s what we were told by g1

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You're all wrong.

 

RTW ruined APB before LO or G1 even got their hands on it. If anything G1 did a lot to improve the game from the terrible foundation that RTW left.

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I think the customization concept of APB is great but the shooter aspect is pretty horrid.

 

The shooter aspect of the game is harmed by how poorly the game runs even on present day computers built nearly a decade after the games release.

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I'm pretty new to the game so i don't know much about everything that happened - but i think what could have contributed to the game dying is all the older people have been doing the exact same game-loop for years now, and once you hit max rank - with max roles, and all the achievements there's no real insentive to keep playing besides being better than other people, most people probably hit a wall in-game of either trying to be better than 1-2 other people you're with/up against, or being better than yourself - in the game-loop you've been playing for years, that doesn't sound fun whatsoever...

My idea to fix the boring-ness for old players would be
- New mission loops/changeable mission loops that could work like the seasons in RIOT so that missions are constantly changing and there's usually something new to do in mission districts
- Adding new contacts / raising the rank cap so that people can actually achieve 299 (I just realized earlier that we have a list up to 299 but max rank is 255) i'm sure a lot of people would join back just to attempt to get the highest rank again and see what's new from there.
- Once the engine update is done, possibly going back and looking into hitboxes - no idea why they are giant rectangles that cover places not even the body is/could be (Possibly due to the customization, but even games with customization have better hitboxes) as well as adding different anchor points for the hitbox, so that you can hit headshots - foot shots - torso shots, that way you have to think strategically about where you want to hit someone, instead of "FUGGIT DOOOD I SEE A GUY MEDUSA SPRAY!!!!"
 

Edited by Authorize

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Server stability.

Im a 24/7 TDM freak so as long as a game has players and runs smoothly i don't care about much else.

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Cheaters drove me away from this game on PC. No, there aren't as many cheaters as some people make it out to seem. But for me, it created this whole atmosphere and paranoia around the game that made it way less enjoyable. Some cheaters were blatant as hell and hid nothing, and still lasted weeks without being booted to new accounts. And then there's the people you might have suspected to be closet cheaters. Closet cheaters definitely exist, and it's this fact combined with the lack of moderation on even the most blatant cheaters that really put a damper on this game for me.

 

I finally had to step away when I realized how unhealthy it was to constantly feel this paranoia about the community.

 

"Are they that good? Was that a super lucky kill? Was it my fault for being in a bad spot, making a bad decision? Or are they bullshoot? Ok they're definitely bullshoot! Wait last match they were untouchable and now I got the jump on them.. did they toggle off? They've got to be cheating, there's no way they could have hit those shots from that distance! If that blatant guy is still running around then there's no way this closet will get banned!"

 

All these awful thoughts and crap that just weren't healthy to constantly have running through my head while playing. I wouldn't take it to district chat or whispers, but it was all still there affecting me behind the screen. Enough to the point where I switched to exclusively PS4 just for the peace of mind it gave me, being on a platform that would be immensely harder to cheat on. If I got killed in a fishy way on PS4, I was able to write it off as luck or something just because of the different mindset I had in regards to cheating possibility. It may not make a lot of sense, but if it works for me then I can't really complain.

 

Now, the game's problems are what keep me from playing. Hoping the console update is worth the wait. Not sure why I typed all this. I guess boredom on a sick day away from work.

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20 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

I really wonder where this comes from. Loved that time and somehow it ended up as a collective dark time of APB?

Tried to do some digging but sadly old blog and patchnotes seem to have been lost due to takeover and stuff.

 

On reddit I found two possible time stamps about introduction of threat segregation:

Source

 

As for the end it's luckily one of the first available patch notes

Source

 

Let's ignore the usual seasonal swings and that the gold rush event pushed it's peak in August 2013 I still fail to see the genocide of the playerbase.

In fact it looks like it started to go downhill from threat segregation removal? Am I missing sth. what am I missing?

 

~image~

 

Exactly. I don't think threat segregation hurt APB at all. Which is why it's so funny when people use it to keep being Gold in Bronze Districts.

 

If you look after it ended, that's when APB started to hemorrhage players.... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... It's almost like the community was one of the biggest sources of player loss.

 

40f.png 

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Miscommunication - the single biggest killer of APB in every iteration of its life. RTW dropped the ball hard when it came to managing development of the game. The studio failed to effectively talk between teams and released a poorly designed mess. Not to mention seemingly lost player feedback along the way. EA didn't exactly help either with backstabbing them and counting on the game to fail. 

 

Then you come around to the G1 release. Lots of talking early on, but they'd stay eerily quiet on some troubling issues. Such as guns costing $60 out of the gate. Plus intentionally limiting everything possible (hi gun leases only for F2P!) to force cash shop sales. Not to mention them focusing almost solely on having their team work on cash shop updates. Seemingly not permitting them to work on desperately needed fixes/content/etc for the core game.

 

Plus people like [you know which old community manager] & crew deciding they want full control over everything. Banning people at random, slaughtering the old SPCT program. Of which, yes, actual work was done. People like me would be in there daily checking everything under the damn sun and debating things with the developers. Then outright ignoring people and the lies players started being able to call from the start (anyone remember those "retired" guns?). Lying to us about the engine upgrade, and how it was actually intended for consoles. Etc! 

 

I could go on like that for ages.. point is people and their bullshoot are what led us here. You can argue about the details all ya want, but a repeated collapse of communication with a touch of looking out for ones self at the cost of everything else did the game in. 

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On 4/29/2019 at 3:01 PM, poochyena said:

The engine upgrade ruined APB. Once focus was put on the upgrade and away from updates, the game started to die. The upgrade should have been given less attention, or  at least not diverted away regular staff.
 

how can a engine upgrade ruin APB when people want to play next generation rather than old outdated and laggy game play?

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5 hours ago, Genobee said:

Miscommunication - the single biggest killer of APB in every iteration of its life.
[...]

I could go on like that for ages.. point is people and their bullshoot are what led us here. You can argue about the details all ya want, but a repeated collapse of communication with a touch of looking out for ones self at the cost of everything else did the game in. 

I agree with all of that.
A good blog from one of RTW original dev: https://lukehalliwell.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/where-realtime-worlds-went-wrong/

I personally left APB:Reloaded under G1 management because of poor execution / lack of meaningful changes.

Edited by Talla

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3 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

how can a engine upgrade ruin APB when people want to play next generation rather than old outdated and laggy game play?

It ruined the game because they didn't have the resources to pull it off, meaning they had to divert manpower away from producing new content and creating patches to the EU.

 

What's worse is that the EU still hasn't been released, they bit off more than they could chew and as a result the whole game suffered.

 

If the EU is ever released it'll probably be final nail in APB's coffin anyway, it's bound to buggy/unpolished which will probably lead to what's left of the playerbase abandoning ship.

 

 

However there is no single factor that brought this game to it's knees but rather a whole combination of things including the time wasted on the console ports, the toxic playerbase, inadequate anti-cheat measures, lack of moderation, being taken over by an inexperienced company who didn't really understand the game, the fact that it got off to a shaky start in the first place, all the money wasted during initial development, etc.

 

All things considered it's a minor miracle that it's lasted this long.

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That would be a lack of an engine upgrade and a broken promise to milk since that refers to G1.

The way they worded it sounds to  suggest the current engine upgrade being finished upon by Little Orbit and the SPCT is ruining APB

since i do not know which they are referring to  ( some do refer to the current work being done) ..... i  asked how *shrugs*

only that person can answer what they mean for certain.

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beside the obvious cheaters,

 

we have

- common internet trolls as SPCT like CookiePuss: totally not a troll 

- BXNNXD: asking to be banned but never gets it

- Nymphi--DoubleDee (G1WhiteKnight - lol i didnt know u could change ur name but i could be wrong) : this one isnt a normal internet troll, its a GREAT internet troll.

- and last but not least, @MattScott unbanning cheaters instead of banning them(some even brag about getting free premium for cheating). oh yea, we gotta love this CEO.

 

more pactical reasons for failure: No development team, all games will eventually get boring which is why regular content updates are a must. There are worst games doing alot better than APB, because they still continue to get regular updates and changes.

I would suggest putting the mythical "Engine Upgrade" on the back burner and making sure the community get constant updates on a fixed schedule no matter how trivial.

 

I personally would like to see:

- Cosmetic Updates every 2-4 weeks, yes cosmetic items are very important to apb.

- Weapon Balance Updates every month, perhaps with 1 major nerf and 1 major upgrade to 2 random weapons. why? some players just stick to 1 weapon and never and i mean never ever change it. give them a reason to change that OCA or Ntec.

- New District to play, not new modes, not new mission types. I want a new super fun map to play on with no game breaking camping points.

 

5127218-7847497500-47931.jpg

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2 hours ago, NyanPowa said:

I would suggest putting the mythical "Engine Upgrade" on the back burner

 

Yea, cause they loosing people, 12hrs for nothing, then we got another delay god knows how long, Ya know i hate to be a banana, but wtf is going on in that back room????

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On 4/29/2019 at 6:39 PM, neophobia said:

pointless hackusations and p2w accusations (partially due to some items being p2w in the past xd)

lack of content/updates last years

plain milking

Fairly certain the p2w-claims originate from Steam, just browse through the reviews there it's claimed p2w in like 60% of those and in pretty much every negative one.

One of the reasons why i'd absolutely love the ability to forward timed JMB guns.

 

Slightly off-topic but still a part of it: Just the other day i was teamed with a brand new bronze, guy gets ran over with a car by the opp and first thing he says in district chat is "p2w"... not hard to guess where he got that bollocks from...

Edited by Sniperturtle

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