Old or new spawn system discussion thread

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

Which was better, the old or newer system, or a revamp?

Or what would you improve on the current/old system?

 

What does the community want/think of it.

[xmm0 1]

dont spawn people 400m away from the point if there are like 20sec left.

dont spawn enemies right behind / infront of people.

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

2 minutes ago, xmm0 said:

dont spawn people 400m away from the point if there are like 20sec left.

dont spawn enemies right behind / infront of people.

It feels like a walking simulator when you spawn 200m+, even worse when you spawn somewhere and you cannot find any cover nearby and your just a sitting duck for a guy camping on top of a roof.

[weissraider 21]

The Spawn system needs to get a revamp. And they have to do something with that Mobile Spawner. (when you shoot an Enemy Car "with mobile spawn" they should disallow to spawn in it for a short time.

 

[Spheri 66]

I think both spawn systems were flawed, but I think I've already adapted to the new one. The old one was extremely annoying as you could have unlucky spawns but the new one still has this issue from time to time. The car spawner issue has mainly been solved so if I had to choose between the two I'd say the newer one just because I've already adapted to it.

I wouldn't mind a revamp though, but I have no idea how to fix it.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Spherii

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

Just now, Spherii said:

I think both spawn systems were flawed, but I think I've already adapted to the new one. The old one was extremely annoying as you could have unlucky spawns but the new one still has this issue from time to time. The car spawner issue has mainly been solved so if I had to choose between the two I'd say the newer one just because I've already adapted to it.

 

I still would like to see the range on car spawner that counts as enemy nearby to increase. Overall, the rest is OK just the distance spawning is really troublesome as you spend roughly 30-60s to get to a location if not by car but then they see you coming.

[Cr0 328]

[removed stuff I was wrong about]

 

About double the amount of spawn points would be nice.

 

Car spawners help.

 

As a side note, when you spawn into fightclub after just arriving to the district, you should get to select the same spawn point as if you just died and not the same entry spawn points every time, beause you'll spawn there no matter how close any enemies are.

Edited May 30, 2018 by SilverCrow
I was wrong about some stuff.

[CookiePuss 5378]

As long as everyone continues to use the same system as everyone else... Im down for whatever. 

 

Change it  dont change it... its whatever. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by CookiePuss

[LaQuandra 91]

I voted for the "newer" system because picking your spawn is still better than not being able to pick it. I did not vote for revamp because I am unsure what the "revamp" would be. The most annoying thing about the "new" system is you might only get spawns to the south of your objective for example. I understand that the other team has to spawn as well and we don't want our opposition spawning right next to us. 

 

What are the suggestions to fix it? If we have more spawns and they are not blocked we will end up spawning next each other and I am sure that will lead to even more complaints.

[LilyV3 323]

the old? you mean the one where you could puhs a group to spawn open on the crossroads and easily snipe them from roofs?

 

the new one is mostly good except with not being able to give players choices AROUND the missions objective. if it gets that it would be quite fine.

[Regenance 59]

I miss the old one, but it's need to be revmaped, there are too many holes in the current system.

[Dragonshaman 34]

The earliest version of the spawn system still works better than the current one. I don't know which spawn system you mean by "old", but they changed the spawn system 3 times.

The very first spawn system would sometimes spawn you 400 meters away, but only sometimes. And mainly in Waterfront.

After that they changed the spawn system so you spawn at a certain location near the objective, but you'd just constantly get spawn pushed without being able to do anything about it.

Then they introduced car spawners and they worked like shit. Absolutely horrible. People could spawn wherever they wanted to using car spawners, even on the objective as long as it was on a little elevation.

Then they changed it again to stop people from spawning ON the objective, and they added a range of enemies nearby causing you to be unable to spawn there, but sometimes enemies still spawn right in their car when you're 5 meters away from them.

I'd rather go with the very first spawn system and get that once in a blue moon 400m+ spawn than to get constant cancer from people spawning wherever the hell they want to, throwing all tactics out of the window at the same time.

[Kempington 295]

I think the problem is thst the spawn system cannot take into account the geometry of the map at all, it just finds what spawn points are closest to the objective and puts them up as available, as well as some less preferred ones.

 

From what I recall, the spawn point it defaults to uses the same algorithm as the old system, except now you can choose if you want it or another one.

 

It needs to be reworked to accommodate more options or "smarter" ones at least. I'm pretty sure it's not possible for it to take into account the geometry of the surroundings and possible routes to the objective from the spawn point, but maybe something else to improve its selection it gives you? 

 

I think one spawn point option should be the nearest car spawner location to the objective that's a minimum of 200m away.

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

I think the new spawn system is probably an improvement over the old one. Being able to choose your spawn also gives you the ability to tell which direction you'll be approaching the objective from before you spawn. It's useful for planning. That being said there some major improvements I would like to see:

• Introduce more spawn points, especially some which don't follow the strict rules about having to spawn on a road. Currently there are many areas (Southern Financial and Eastern Waterfront in particular) where roads are simply not laid out to support the 110m ideal distance. I'd love to see the ability to spawn on dirt roads or in alley-ways to ensure that there's always a spawn point an appropriate distance away. If nothing else, it would also cut down on instances where you spawn on a road only for an enemy vehicle to rock up instantly.
• Attempt to put the opposing teams on opposite sides when it comes to spawning. Obviously we don't want entirely predictable spawns, but it is a bit silly when you can spawn at a 90 degree angle to an enemy on the same road.
• Be far more strict when it comes to spawning players at map boundaries. Right now the system does not handle it very well, which is why you see players spawn behind each other in these areas. When it comes to map boundaries, the game will simply have to place teams at opposite ends.
• Attempt to rotate player spawns during missions so that even if a mission objective is highly asymmetrical, both teams will have equal shares of poor spawn points. Many missions are determind by which team has easier access to a highway for example.
• Possibly dial back the vehicle mod Mobile Spawn Point. I'd like to see the distance in which enemies can block the spawner be increased, as well as a radius around an objective in which they don't function. Mobile Spawn Point is currently very easy to use, but incredibly dangerous to ignore. (This is part of a wider issue to do with vehicles however).
• Add the ability to que up spawn points via priority in case your preferred one becomes blocked or a previously blocked one becomes available.
• Perhaps consider revamping Fight Club spawning entirely. Right now it is far too easy to run into an enemy spawn point and be completely overwhelmed instantly. From my memory Asylum worked better when you couldn't choose your spawns.

These are just some of the aspects of the spawn system that need improving right now.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Lord Cashpoint

[Bornstellar 108]

I believe the root of the problem is with the standard spawning system. The fact that you can spawn 130m+ from a mission objective is just ridiculous when you're pressed against time. It can turn a landslide victory for a 5 minute mission phase into a 10 second win for the other side. It's frustrating to say the least.

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

Some very solid idea's and thoughts in this thread, thank you so far guys.

[Keshi 436]

spawning 250m from the obj is not cool... revamp plz

[sundere 25]

the old spawn system was easy to predict, making advantage once you predict the enemy spawn, that combine (on that time) with the scout and jump shot, for new players was so unfair and they dropoff.

[vsb 6171]

frankly i don’t think any system revamp is going to be perfect unless someone goes through and manually approves each spawn point, there’s just too many variables for an automatic pass through to work imo

 

im aware this would be a herculean task but in the end it would probably leave us with the best results

 

on a side note i’d like to see the same thing down with objectives and drop off points

[LaQuandra 91]

22 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

frankly i don’t think any system revamp is going to be perfect unless someone goes through and manually approves each spawn point, there’s just too many variables for an automatic pass through to work imo

 

im aware this would be a herculean task but in the end it would probably leave us with the best results

 

on a side note i’d like to see the same thing down with objectives and drop off points

 

I agree, but like you said, by the time they finish that it would be 2025. I am assuming the "new" system just uses the old random spawn points but you're allowed to chose the random point you want. Obviously the game's TTK and mechanics were very different in RTW APB, which is why we have the points/objectives where we do. 

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, LaQuandra said:

 

I agree, but like you said, by the time they finish that it would be 2025. I am assuming the "new" system just uses the old random spawn points but you're allowed to chose the random point you want. Obviously the game's TTK and mechanics were very different in RTW APB, which is why we have the points/objectives where we do. 

a shortcut cheese method would be to simply double the available spawn points, i remember when they removed the faction restrictions on the old system it felt like night and day

[trismatic 2]

5 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

the new one is mostly good except with not being able to give players choices AROUND the missions objective. if it gets that it would be quite fine.

 

This would be stupid. The spawns shouldn't reward you by effectively teleporting you into a good position to flank your opponents. That's something you should do by yourself. Spawns should be somehow located on the opposite 180 degs of the mission objective.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

I think the new spawn system is probably an improvement over the old one. Being able to choose your spawn also gives you the ability to tell which direction you'll be approaching the objective from before you spawn. It's useful for planning. That being said there some major improvements I would like to see:

• Introduce more spawn points, especially some which don't follow the strict rules about having to spawn on a road. Currently there are many areas (Southern Financial and Eastern Waterfront in particular) where roads are simply not laid out to support the 110m ideal distance. I'd love to see the ability to spawn on dirt roads or in alley-ways to ensure that there's always a spawn point an appropriate distance away. If nothing else, it would also cut down on instances where you spawn on a road only for an enemy vehicle to rock up instantly.
• Attempt to put the opposing teams on opposite sides when it comes to spawning. Obviously we don't want entirely predictable spawns, but it is a bit silly when you can spawn at a 90 degree angle to an enemy on the same road.
• Be far more strict when it comes to spawning players at map boundaries. Right now the system does not handle it very well, which is why you see players spawn behind each other in these areas. When it comes to map boundaries, the game will simply have to place teams at opposite ends.
• Attempt to rotate player spawns during missions so that even if a mission objective is highly asymmetrical, both teams will have equal shares of poor spawn points. Many missions are determind by which team has easier access to a highway for example.
• Possibly dial back the vehicle mod Mobile Spawn Point. I'd like to see the distance in which enemies can block the spawner be increased, as well as a radius around an objective in which they don't function. Mobile Spawn Point is currently very easy to use, but incredibly dangerous to ignore. (This is part of a wider issue to do with vehicles however).
• Add the ability to que up spawn points via priority in case your preferred one becomes blocked or a previously blocked one becomes available.
• Perhaps consider revamping Fight Club spawning entirely. Right now it is far too easy to run into an enemy spawn point and be completely overwhelmed instantly. From my memory Asylum worked better when you couldn't choose your spawns.

These are just some of the aspects of the spawn system that need improving right now.

 

I agree with this post.

 

Granted, I haven't played in three years so my current knowledge about the car spawner mod is a bit old, however I never liked the aspect that if your enemy team has it, you have to have it as well. It's too powerful to ignore. It shouldn't give an obvious edge but be something that gives an unique way to be tactical. I remember disliking the fact that you can spawn into a moving car. Sometimes you might end up scoring a kill at the previous objective (which should be rewarded by that person reaching the next objective slower), yet the person spawned in a car in front of you driving towards the point. Needless to say, this should never happen.

Edited May 30, 2018 by trismatic

[Nessie 81]

The spawn system definitely needs a rewamp. I don't find car spawner that flawed, instead I find extremely bad how you can predict the position of the opponents based on which spawnpoints are active. I honestly think this is an issue, the spawn system shouldn't even give fixed points, it should just put you back in game at a random position nearby (lets say within 100m) where you last died.

[Revoluzzer 274]

6 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

the new one is mostly good except with not being able to give players choices AROUND the missions objective. if it gets that it would be quite fine.

Spawning "around" mission objectives doesn't work - both teams would be able to spawn in the same locations then.

Nevertheless spawns should somewhat be distributed 180° around the objectives for each team.

 

6 hours ago, Kempington said:

I think the problem is thst the spawn system cannot take into account the geometry of the map at all, it just finds what spawn points are closest to the objective and puts them up as available, as well as some less preferred ones.

[...]

It needs to be reworked to accommodate more options or "smarter" ones at least. I'm pretty sure it's not possible for it to take into account the geometry of the surroundings and possible routes to the objective from the spawn point, but maybe something else to improve its selection it gives you?

Ideally spawns would be manually placed and an algorithm merely figures out which team currently "owns" which spawns.  As elsewhere mentioned in this thread going through the maps manually to select decent spawn locations is a monumental task, but then again there are dozens of players who know the maps inside out and could rapidly provide a list of decent spawns.

 

As for the algorithm, I believe it work somewhat like a meta-gamemode, which allows each team to "capture" spawn points by occupying an area and keeping enemies out of it. Generally this is already how the current system works (i.e. spawns become available near teammates and unavailable near enemies), but sometimes the available spawns can not accommodate for all variables and then the system falls apart entirely. Again, hand-crafted spawns and a slightly more "interactive" ruleset might alleviate these issues.

[LilyV3 323]

16 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

Spawning "around" mission objectives doesn't work - both teams would be able to spawn in the same locations then.

Nevertheless spawns should somewhat be distributed 180° around the objectives for each team.

 

Ideally spawns would be manually placed and an algorithm merely figures out which team currently "owns" which spawns.  As elsewhere mentioned in this thread going through the maps manually to select decent spawn locations is a monumental task, but then again there are dozens of players who know the maps inside out and could rapidly provide a list of decent spawns.

 

As for the algorithm, I believe it work somewhat like a meta-gamemode, which allows each team to "capture" spawn points by occupying an area and keeping enemies out of it. Generally this is already how the current system works (i.e. spawns become available near teammates and unavailable near enemies), but sometimes the available spawns can not accommodate for all variables and then the system falls apart entirely. Again, hand-crafted spawns and a slightly more "interactive" ruleset might alleviate these issues.

 

both teams are already spawning at the same location if spawns grant them randomly the same ones (or if they have a carspawner there) you can see this when you killed someone an died shortly after him and one of your possible spawns turn red shortly before you spawn. that happens because he has a spawn selected before you thats at the enarly same spot making your spawn suddenly unavailable.

 

Manually chosen spawns, would be neat, but then we need a better map, like the ones we had for halloween. Also they could still cause the same issues when an someone else chooses it shortly before you.

 

@trismatioc, the spawns currently work very randomly and if you are lucky you could still spawn in the flank anyways, So why would it suddenly be rewarding? It's not more or less rewarding than the current dice roll does. But it opens up tactical choices.