DISCUSSION: Weapon balance changes to LIVE and IR3 on the Fang

[Hexerin 1142]

Hunting Sight 3 on the Fang would outright kill the gun. Literally all you need to do is reduce it to Improved Rifling 1, that's it. The entire community has been telling you this since you originally purchased the game over a year ago, how the fuck is this even a discussion?

[Lign 361]

6 hours ago, GhosT said:

 

What a way to nerf those two into the abyss.

 

Can't we just revert shotguns and slightly buff the shredder?

Pre-LO shotguns were the most balanced weapon category.

Imagine nerfing oca and going back to pre-LO shotties. Seems fair. 

[Ketog 1032]

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Hunting Sight 3 on the Fang would outright kill the gun. Literally all you need to do is reduce it to Improved Rifling 1, that's it. The entire community has been telling you this since you originally purchased the game over a year ago, how the fuck is this even a discussion?

13 hours ago, Flaws said:

Won't replacing IR3 with HS3 on Fang render the standard RFP superior due to less accuracy loss while hipfiring in CQC? Thought about replacing it with like IR1 or 2 instead? I agree that it's bad design to give it IR3 but it also shouldn't have to necessarily fall out of relevancy like most nerfed weapons do in APB when the next best thing suddenly outshines them.

That's the point, Fang is supposed to be a variant, not an upgrade.

 

It has a scope > made for longer range fights > aimed shots.

 

It totally fits with the gun, and brings back fang to where it's supposed to be.

I totally understand your frustration, but any kind of range mod on RFP, will make it a straight upgrade to the normal RFP and break game balance. (unless a new range mod with another downside gets into the game?)

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ketog

[SKay 207]

45 minutes ago, Ketog said:

That's the point, Fang is supposed to be a variant, not an upgrade.

 

It has a scope > made for longer range fights > aimed shots.

 

It totally fits with the gun, and brings back fang to where it's supposed to be.

I totally understand your frustration, but any kind of range mod on RFP, will make it a straight upgrade to the normal RFP (unless a new range mod with another downside gets into the game?), which breaks balance.

 

Almost like Ketog is enlightened. Or maybe he actually understands that ARMAS guns are variant guns.

IR1 is an insult to anyone who bought it. HS3 at least justifies the weapon's existence.

[Saxtus 497]

12 hours ago, MattScott said:

If all of that wasn't bad enough, this gun is only available behind a paywall, which makes it purely pay to win. We have been making a strong effort to balance the P2W aspects of the game, and unfortunately the Fang is one of those outliers that needs to be addressed.

 

For the record, I really hate changing a gun that people have paid for, even though I recognize we have already been forced to do this. Just know that we take it seriously.

Is it going both ways? For example, are you planning to boost Norsemen?

[vsb 6174]

43 minutes ago, Saxtus said:

Is it going both ways? For example, are you planning to boost Norsemen?

nah obir qs is clearly way more of a problem than the 20 guns that no one uses except for memes

[Nitronik 348]

What is the point?


The gun is going to be horribly inaccurate in CQC with none of the damage & drop off leniency it needs to poke people at a distance

I think the RFP has been overnerfed, and I'm not sure Hunting Sight fits the Fang at all. If anything, why not try Reflex Sight instead? For a CQC gun with such a nasty movement modifier, forgoing its somewhat decent MM for better hipfire would be a tradeoff that is both functional and interesting .

 

Merged.

 

1 hour ago, SKay said:

IR1 is an insult to anyone who bought it. HS3 at least justifies the weapon's existence.

I fail to see how. It still is a balance problem since it's a performance boost.

HS3 imo doesn't fit well due to its range + hipfire accuracy, see above

Edited October 1, 2019 by Nitronik

[Snubnose 644]

I haven't thought about the exact numbers, and I know this sounds weird or extreme at first but it might work so bare with me...

how about Hunting Sight 1/2/3, Improved Rifling 1/2 and Heavy Barrel 1/2/3

I think with the right mix this could maybe work out, and I know what you're thinking - "HOLY COW, A SECONDARY WITH 3 MODS?! THIS MUST BE OP!"
but I'll stop you right there... it's not OP if the mods are (partly) poor choices!
As you can see from the posts before this, HS is more of a downgrade to the RFP, and so will HB be to a certain degree. (see below)

 

pros:

• improved accuracy thanks to HS and HB, but shouldn't be too much of an impact because that's what RFP is good at already.
• slightly more range thanks to IR.

cons:

• weak hipfire accuracy thanks to HS.
• slightly more shots needed to kill / higher time to kill thanks to HB.

you could go HS1, IR1 and HB1 to make like a "soft" version of this gun, or go all in with HS3, IR2 and HB 2/3 to really force it into a marksmanmode kind of playstyle and pretty much eliminate hipfiring.
but overall I think IR3 is kinda overkill even with the downsides of HS and HB.







do people still know heavy barrel exists?

[TheMessiah 430]

[Guest]

Can't wait for the shotguns turn. 

Good work LO.

[vsb 6174]

1 hour ago, Snubnose said:

I haven't thought about the exact numbers, and I know this sounds weird or extreme at first but it might work so bare with me...

how about Hunting Sight 1/2/3, Improved Rifling 1/2 and Heavy Barrel 1/2/3

I think with the right mix this could maybe work out, and I know what you're thinking - "HOLY COW, A SECONDARY WITH 3 MODS?! THIS MUST BE OP!"
but I'll stop you right there... it's not OP if the mods are (partly) poor choices!
As you can see from the posts before this, HS is more of a downgrade to the RFP, and so will HB be to a certain degree. (see below)

 

pros:

• improved accuracy thanks to HS and HB, but shouldn't be too much of an impact because that's what RFP is good at already.
• slightly more range thanks to IR.

cons:

• weak hipfire accuracy thanks to HS.
• slightly more shots needed to kill / higher time to kill thanks to HB.

you could go HS1, IR1 and HB1 to make like a "soft" version of this gun, or go all in with HS3, IR2 and HB 2/3 to really force it into a marksmanmode kind of playstyle and pretty much eliminate hipfiring.
but overall I think IR3 is kinda overkill even with the downsides of HS and HB.







do people still know heavy barrel exists?

i dont think the game itself is built to handle secondaries with multiple mods, i seem to remember g1 saying something about that before

 

edit: but the fr0g series exists so idk, maybe it was just secondaries with open slots?

Edited October 1, 2019 by Solamente

[Nickolai 206]

14 hours ago, Flaws said:

Won't replacing IR3 with HS3 on Fang render the standard RFP superior due to less accuracy loss while hipfiring in CQC? Thought about replacing it with like IR1 or 2 instead? I agree that it's bad design to give it IR3 but it also shouldn't have to necessarily fall out of relevancy like most nerfed weapons do in APB when the next best thing suddenly outshines them.

 

[GhosT 1301]

6 hours ago, Lign said:

Imagine nerfing oca and going back to pre-LO shotties. Seems fair. 

 

It does!

 

G1s OCA buff was unnecessary and it was a fair competitor to pre lo shotguns.

[Milim 32]

HI, Fang owner here. Just delete the Fang variant and call it a day.

 

V/R 

 

zeal

[SkittyM 287]

4 hours ago, Snubnose said:

I haven't thought about the exact numbers, and I know this sounds weird or extreme at first but it might work so bare with me...

how about Hunting Sight 1/2/3, Improved Rifling 1/2 and Heavy Barrel 1/2/3

I think with the right mix this could maybe work out, and I know what you're thinking - "HOLY COW, A SECONDARY WITH 3 MODS?! THIS MUST BE OP!"
but I'll stop you right there... it's not OP if the mods are (partly) poor choices!
As you can see from the posts before this, HS is more of a downgrade to the RFP, and so will HB be to a certain degree. (see below)

 

pros:

• improved accuracy thanks to HS and HB, but shouldn't be too much of an impact because that's what RFP is good at already.
• slightly more range thanks to IR.

cons:

• weak hipfire accuracy thanks to HS.
• slightly more shots needed to kill / higher time to kill thanks to HB.

you could go HS1, IR1 and HB1 to make like a "soft" version of this gun, or go all in with HS3, IR2 and HB 2/3 to really force it into a marksmanmode kind of playstyle and pretty much eliminate hipfiring.
but overall I think IR3 is kinda overkill even with the downsides of HS and HB.







do people still know heavy barrel exists?

There's already a version with heavy barrel 1 on it, not sure why you want to combine a bunch of them since secondaries only have one mod normally.

3 hours ago, Solamente said:

i dont think the game itself is built to handle secondaries with multiple mods, i seem to remember g1 saying something about that before

 

edit: but the fr0g series exists so idk, maybe it was just secondaries with open slots?

That was to do with open slot weapons since the UI simply can not support it.  You can otherwise put up to 3 mods on any pistol just like normal, just has to be done under the hood.

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

keep the IR 3... jusr reduce the range below 40m (counting ir3) 

 

joker pistol is fine itsmin damage range is too far... maybe reducing the total damage of the 3 round burst by a small percent can help with the range being too far also.

[Farbon Ciber 65]

18 hours ago, MattScott said:

 

 

OCA-EW 626 (And varieties):

Fire interval from 0.092 to 0.098 seconds,

Accuracy Recovery from 5.675 to 5.25

 

 

 

 

again, rather than weaken the game play of an existing weapon that has been in the game for many years......please focus on fixing truly horrible weapons that no one plays

 

As I have stated many times, you have neutered three weapons that I have purchased with actual cash

 

I just don't understand why we risk upsetting players 

[thelinux 51]

I'm glad to see Yolo and RFP changes going live, although I have my doubts how you'll get along with the CQC tweaking which you just initiated.

As to the RFP, despite having paid for it I think we all agree that IR3 as it is now simply has no place on the RFP, even with the changed base model. You suggested HS3, which I fully understand, but don't entirely approve of. It does improve MMS accuracy (which I'm not sure it needs to have improved), but it definitely needs hip-firing accuracy too so that's a downside. I'd personally prefer the RFP with no mods at all over HS3, or over any mod of the type. Cooling jacket wouldn't make sense due to the weapon firing bursts, and I couldn't think of any other red mod which could make sense on it. The mag cap / reload time ration is flawless too, so blue mods are out for me too on this one.

 

Hence I'd say we're left with the purple ones. Tagger is an 'okay' option, making the weapon a bit more special but not much more useful. Mobility sling would be handy in MMS mode, but slows down equip time, which is vital when it comes to secondaries, the latter being the reason why I'd recommend 3-Point-Sling 2 or 3 for the RFP, giving it a neat advantage with no downsides. Just like it was done with the FR0G 'Kokoe'.

[SkittyM 287]

35 minutes ago, Farbon Ciber said:

again, rather than weaken the game play of an existing weapon that has been in the game for many years......please focus on fixing truly horrible weapons that no one plays

 

As I have stated many times, you have neutered three weapons that I have purchased with actual cash

 

I just don't understand why we risk upsetting players 

You must not have noticed that Reloaded gave the OCA an actual buff that nobody asked for.  Resulting in it becoming the sole close quarters meta.  It's nerf is needed as many people have asked for it.

[Lign 361]

5 hours ago, GhosT said:

 

It does!

 

G1s OCA buff was unnecessary and it was a fair competitor to pre lo shotguns.

oh really? So, you wanna say the gun that is almost immortal at the corners and doesn't force you to track the enemy with 100% uptime is not stronger than oca? It's disgusting that some ppl think shotguns are undertuned. I'm not maining them but I still perform much better with jg than with something that requires always track the enemy. So stupid that sometimes I can kill the entire team from the corner without losing more than half hp because it's hard to hit me when I'm cornerpopping

Edited October 1, 2019 by Lign

[Trivirium 62]

21 hours ago, Flaws said:

Won't replacing IR3 with HS3 on Fang render the standard RFP superior due to less accuracy loss while hipfiring in CQC? Thought about replacing it with like IR1 or 2 instead? I agree that it's bad design to give it IR3 but it also shouldn't have to necessarily fall out of relevancy like most nerfed weapons do in APB when the next best thing suddenly outshines them.

I second this hard. I've paid for a gun that has a longer range than the standard RFP. If I wanted a RFP with the same range as the rest I would've never bought it in the first place.

I know this may sound cheesy but they did it for the Norseman series even though they're not legendary weapons, but could it be a special case with the fang? We could have a custom modification, Something to up the range by a small amount while in marksmanship mode? 

Something small but unique for the case.

I just ultimately don't want to be here feeling like I've spent my money on another dud gun. I agree it's broken as it is, but it's purpose was range, not accuracy. Please see to that.

EDIT: Rather than making another post to be leik "I don't think we should delete it". I'm just gonna add that people need to remember that the Fang is apart of a set of modified RFPs, like it's not just the one and if you deleting one the other two are just kinda there. The Talon, Comanche and Fang are all unique enough to have their own place, but rightfully so not at 65m+

I'm a firm believer of "If you're deleting content then you're not fixing it, but instead are ignoring it." and it's a super lazy practice that G1 started with the Showstopper and a lot of other guns that were Nekrova only, and I really don't want to see another round of weapons just vanish as if it was never happening.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Trivirium

[LilyV3 323]

15 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

the act suffers the same hitreg issues as the star, so i doubt it. "aims 6 shots right on and misses" "bullets appear outside of reticule" wtf

Never notioced this happening but the crosshai was just always too big at range to reliably hit anything. And that is even on the GM. But after the change I am definately going to try it again. always liked the GM a lot visual wise.

[moxxichixx 148]

How about, don't make new armas weapon without having an idea of how powerful it is. Can we just get back to what is important here....engine update/servers?

[Nagletz 219]

My suggestion is kinda unfair (and violent) to pay players, BUT how about to delete the Fang from the game totally and compensate it in G1C to anyone who bought it?

[CookiePuss 5382]

7 minutes ago, Nagletz said:

My suggestion is kinda unfair (and violent) to pay players, BUT how about to delete the Fang from the game totally and compensate it in G1C to anyone who bought it?

That's a lot more work than changing a mod or adjusting a stat.