LilyRain

OCA Nano's bloom does NOT increase, at all. Ping and fps fluctuations affect BOTH weapons.. I'm interested in seeing how you calculated or tested that, because that is simply not true.

Based on MattScott's explanation of Phasing: That would be a no. Phasing in itself is a technique to help better matchmake the community as a whole rather than fetch opponents from the same district. Witnessing a Criminal is already specifically between the Enforcer and the Criminal. Witnessing is NOT a randomly-selected opponent and therefore doesn't fall under the umbrella of matchmaking and phasing.

More like it is quite a frequently raged-on topic. What was the tangible conclusion/proof from all of those topics and 'discussions' that deemed O-PGL unfair? If those complaints didn't "come out of nowhere", you surely can put those on the table as you yourself requested, rather than just avoid it in such manner... You said you were "annoyed by one-word or one-line posts and wanna see a real discussion about it because there's definitely the need of talking about it". Yet there is no tangible discussion here. The thread opener was nothing but a dot ".", and your opener was: - find what I believe in outside this thread - I asked people - I saw people play it well The same can be said about a lot of weapons. Where is the specific discussion/evidence that specifically calls for removing, nerfing or overhauling O-PGL? Except the only difference being the way they travel. You either throw/launch a grenade or send a rocket. Ultimately explosives are defined by the end-result, that is an explosion that deals health and hard damage over radii defined by stats. You said it yourself, O-PGL's blast radius isn't as good as EOL's. More so taking an extra mile to say "doesnt allow anything tbh". That is an indirect-confession that O-PGL is not a problem. You imply that you are okay with Rocket Launchers as they are, which is highly-interesting because OSMAW can also kill in 1 explosion just the O-PGL and can deliver that kill substantially faster.. Quite the contradiction there... Again, you are overstressing on your annoyance and calling teammates stupid because they're not playing the game the way YOU want it to be played, quite unhealthy. Perhaps THEY want to O-PGL, why should YOUR preference be pushed forward when you are presenting zero-evidence of O-PGL being unfair? Or better yet a workable new state? I say this because you're telling me you can deal with people cooking grenades, but you can't deal with friendly-O-PGLs that you are always aware of their exact position and distance in meters, via their names that appear above their heads THROUGH walls... That's incredibly hard to believe.. More interestingly, you imply that you want gameplay to be faster because your current play-solution is to just wait it out.. On its own this implies wanting a fuse-timer buff. I already asked if you were sure that you wanted an O-PGL buff and that is yet to be answered. Your plan in this very thread states nerfing "ammo capacity from from 4 (12) to 4 (8)".. You clearly proposed keeping the magazine capacity at 4 grenades which according to you leads to 20 seconds of bottleneck waiting at a door. Why is that a problem now on the second page? It is evident through your posts, "annoying" and "stupid" that your goal is to take hit back at O-PGLers for some self-relief. You didn't really think something so simple through. You don't have to get it right 100% by the 2nd-decimal-point but you should at least be able to tell something. Those who can provide numbers and stat-suggestions will have the highest chances of being heard (which is still not very high knowing how things work here). The best you can ever get without having the courage to deal with numbers is a random public playtest. We had many of those before and they were always a mess. Please, no more. This is beyond agreeing and disagreeing on 1 particular thing. The big picture says that there are more than 1 state of weapon balance that CAN be consistent throughout. A "balance" has 2 arms. Nerfing O-PGL just for the sake of nerfing it without doing anything else makes things less consistent than what they currently are, especially when you don't even know where you want the weapon to be nor the general place of weapons in APB as a whole.

Yes, I've seen that thread & it brings attention to the importance of qualitatively-quantifying numbers in polls than just take them at face-value like Presidential Elections. 60 to 42 when most votes are based on pure-annoyance isn't a great nor alarming ratio. If you want to make some serious change, go back to the root of the problem: Explosives in APB. O-PGL is simply a grenade-launcher, the annoyance around it is not so different from grenades themselves, which also receive quite some hate both in and out of FightClub as well. Grenades also factually happen to be more practical, dangerous and annoying than O-PGL & already received nerfs prior to this thread. If you'd like to edit O-PGL, you must also edit all explosives in the game (good thing health and hard damages are separate so no immediate need to revisit vehicle balancing). Keep in mind that the general time-to-kill in this game is relatively high for a shooter-game, which is the very reason why corner-camping is much easier to do in APB compared to other games and guarantees kills 9/10 of the time (it is even easier now with the questionable x2 heal rate medspray received). Explosives are usually what cleans those cowardly Corner Campers. Nerf Explosives without compensating and you'll make their lives once again even easier. I'm sure people will dislike this fact if such thing happens and it becomes the new reality. You'll dream of going back & threads to roll back will again surface but this time including explosives. Properly editing explosives requires base weapons to settle in first, which are still being modified up & down to this date, else you'd only be looking at a cheap-fix that will last so long players would lose hope (we had many of those and we don't need more, e.g HVR's damage dependence on reticle bloom [♪♫ßΣ this with passion], questionable consumables, etc..) The latest attempt which is still open is made by SPCT @Frosi here: ↑ with this, I'm not ending the discussion. I'd like to see more of it but I posted that thread just in case if you believe you have a sufficient plan or an idea of where O-PGL should be in APB, you get to catch up by voting your stat-adjustments on Frosi's sheet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now addressing your intention of wanting to "see a real discussion" about this topic, truth be told, knowing the problem is 80% of the solution. With sentences like: "Still think theres something wrong with this weapon that could be made better to make it a little less annoying" "It's just annoying af getting stalled or stupidly killed because of said reasons" I'd like to know what lies beyond "annoying" exists to the point where O-PGL & grenades are not fair in the current state of balance in APB? Because "annoying" alone isn't sufficient to produce satisfactory results. We have already seen what happens to gameplay when balancing happens just to accommodate for annoyance, nothing but less options and even more repetitive gameplay where only few things ever work in a serious match. Weapon Balancing aims to deliver FAIRNESS. If you can prove that O-PGL or explosives are not fair then it is only natural for a substantial, focused-change to be warranted without overhauling everything. "Annoying" and "stupid" are not enough.

Again with the "you don't play Asylum" and scenarios that only happen to those who are yet to learn the most basic fundamentals of this game... I played enough Asylum to do things like this: Now, why wasn't an O-PGLer MVP or teamkilled me enough to prevent me from being MVP myself, with literally the WEAKEST setup in the game against the crowded Asylum? Real people show real examples and results, my friend.. And you dare talk low of APBDB, the website that is literally managed by LO & SPCT-member "Speed" to deliver actual game stats that you won't find reliably anywhere else? That already tells enough.. Perhaps it is time for you to start learning how the game and this place works to better contribute towards APB's future, rather than 'omg, please remove O-PGL from Asylum because we had a 4v2 game and O-PGLer got mad and teamkilled us'.... Grow up, would you? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Just another rage-driven pls remove/nerf thread, add it to the pile.

Speak for yourself Speak for yourself Nonsense.. players push over the O-PGL grenade that was shot to the floor and attack the O-PGL User before it even explodes... again, it needs 5 full seconds to explode, which is longer than attacking someone who's cooking their grenade. Not sure where you're bringing all that false, hypothetical talk from. 3 keywords: O-PGL, distance, spam I am sorry, but these 3 simply don't mix.... But O-PGL is a grenade launcher, what are you even on about? The meaningful radius is the max damage radius, which happens to be the smallest of all grenades, right at 200cm.... Concussions have wider radius AND detonate faster.. I highly recommend making use of APBDB to further familiarize yourself to give meaningful suggestions. Spewing false information, scenarios that don't even happen and obscene-language that doesn't belong in this forum to seek nerfs out of pure-PvP-rage will never serve you any good nor to the game. Better luck with your future posts, I hope to see more quality in them.

A test-environment like that would be very nice to have indeed. The best thing we currently have is a built-in calculator on APBDB: https://apbdb.com/build/Weapon_LMG_SHAW556_Slot3_Armas/?mods=FnMod_Weapon_MicroRockets Of course, you already know that Micro Rockets on Shaw won't do anything (you said it as an example) so there are no effects to SHAW's stats in the link. Knowing how the game is currently and how to calculate things from such links (e.g effective initial accuracy, current bloom after X many shots, etc...) is the definitive way to arrive at conclusions that you can trust without a playtest. Not that playtests are bad, quite the opposite. It is just that playtests require time to setup. Long-story made a bit shorter, playtests without a reasonable direction and remotely fair numbers on paper are simply a time-sink, because many tests on the same thing must happen in order to reach a new good state (trial and error). These happened even on Live Servers in dedicated Districts A and B. Changes were either too much, too little or on a stat that was completely meaningless on said weapon. There was no end-vision nor direction at all + minimal to no compensation on adjacent stats on the same & other weapons around it (like when LO nerfed the equip time on the SNR Snubnose from 0.1 to 0.5s, they buffed its damage to compensate on a later patch, not the same one....).

The wind-up mechanic was introduced and got added to some devastating-weapons in order to make their devastation less prompt (a cheap fix but it is what they went with) - OSMAW can one-shot just like O-PGL, but its max damage radius is higher and the rocket's travel speed is 47.5m/s (206.5% as fast as the fastest car in the game). The windup mechanic prevents it from being abused as much as it was years ago. It was truly a FEARSOME primary weapon (and those days were also more fun). - Nfas True-Ogre... without the windup, it would kill in 0.4 seconds, making it the King of CQC. - The EOL series: You have the Deep Impact, Kickback and The Hammer, they have fuse timers of 2.5s, 2s and 1.5s respectively (substantially faster than your average grenade fuse-timer of 4 seconds). These weapons having a wind-up time kinda makes things even [their only problem is having a super-strict magazine capacity, exception being the Deep Impact. Deep Impact can't kill without reloading or using a secondary/grenade]. I personally think having too many wind-up timers aren't healthy for the game, but if you're going in that route, the 5-seconds fuse-timer on the O-PGL must go down or you'd just be committing the same mistake LO did. That mistake being changing 1 variable in a game where weapons have an entire page of stats to change and expecting that to be sufficient.

2 meter effective max damage range is already way behind Concussion grenades. Low Yields and percussions do exactly 2m after they got their range nerfed. 1 meter max explosion range after a 5 second warning will simply kill the weapon. If you're going with this then the fuse-timer on the O-PGL must be decreased to compensate. O-PGL has a Fire Interval of 1.750 seconds (1.628 with cooling jacket 3), a difference of 0.122s on a substantially high time makes it spammy? Please elaborate. Say that towards things like the recently rebuffed-OCA. SHAW, ALIG and HVR movements vary way beyond just movement speeds. they're not exactly the same. While the sprint speed of O-PGL isn't isn't as slow as SHAW/ALIG, it compensates through having a sprint delay, the same delay HVR has. Interestingly enough, HoHoHo-PGL DOESN'T have the sprint-delay O-PGL has... HoHoHo-PGL was buffed a while ago for xmas and for that very reason LO didn't allow it to be used in Mission Districts. Are you REALLY sure you want O-PGL to not have the sprint-delay or even function as HoHoHo-PGL? Because you'd be doing the opposite of what you are trying to do... you would've ended up buffing O-PGL. Having 26% less sprint speed at that point won't matter, especially in Asylum where the user can just resupply it and shoot next to a Vending Machine.

- Blitzkrieg 4 gives a score of 2,150, how do you not get MVP after such an insanely massive boost in score..? - Yeah, tracking for 0.585 seconds only. (without any cooling jacket even). If you can't do that then you can't track with anything in APB as other weapons require substantially more tracking time. - Meanwhile, O-PGL grenades require 5 full seconds to detonate. - Mindfulness goes both ways and extend to much more than just O-PGL (everyone carries 2 grenades on average you know). Rather than calling idiot this lmao ignorant idiot that, perhaps be the smart one and refrain from escorting O-PGLers down every single hallway of Asylum?

You'd then give up reliability (accuracy). Nano WITH marksmanning is still less accurate than FBW

Speaking of MVP in Asylum, wait till someone crouches with AMG-556 'Euryale', and shoots to obtain Blitzkrieg 4... MVP guaranteed on the spot, can just auto-pilot till the match ends. Being MVP in Asylum isn't sufficient to make such a change, but I'd vouch for removing that Joker Vending Machine right outside that Kitchen room

It is still open, my dear~

You would cheat in a game that you love? Don't let your frustration cloud your judgement

I can work with that, lol Pretty polished page, that's a job well done

Unless there is an end-vision of how APB should play as a game, Weapon Balancing will always be aimless with no definitive right/wrong answers as changing one thing also affects things that weren't even touched. - Hey, meta weapons are too powerful, nerf them down to fall in line with other weapons in the game. - Nah nah my boii, don't be like that. Meta weapons are at a good place. Buff the underperforming weapons instead. - Ayyyy, some weapons right here are my ancient religious relics! Don't touch their 'identity' that was a thing since they were meant to be Pay2Advantage from Joker Boxes.. don't touch their niche and no other weapon should even be a rice-grain closer to them. I don't care if the game dies because of this, just don't touch my religious artifacts. Find another way (if you can). - I have no plans to improve as a player so let my RNG-aspect stay. - I like Mickey Mouse and Disney so I want APB to be 10% realistic max, more nonsensical-shiz. - Why are we half-Supermen with Clotting Agent 3? Some punishment is in order for running around in the open like that, APB is too darn tanky... NO, Phok U!! APB must stay like this as dying out in the open is no fun (???) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There will always be variance and inconsistency in balancing as a whole since there is no clear defined goal.. We will continue to have weapons that melt (OCA, gg), weapons that work mediocrely everywhere and meme-weapons that work once in a blue-moon.. (which obviously didn't work and will never work) The closest thing we got to that definition is the phrase "our established baseline" as seen here: 1 » Where exactly is this "baseline"? Is it safe to assume it being around the currently buffed-OCA? Or is it around the previous, signature ttk value of 0.7s? 2 » How thicc is this baseline? Meaning what must the variance/gap in weapons be like? Are we looking at ~0.1 ttk difference between every 2 adjacent weapons? Perhaps 0.05s like a more proper shooter? Should the gaps become smaller to emphasize more on player-performance? Or must it remain large so we continue to have a Rock-Paper-Scissors game? (As of now, it seems to be the latter but this can change) 3 » Do you want APB to be less tanky, more tanky or remain the same in general? (I firmly believe APB is just a BIT too tanky to appeal to people outside the current population as a lot of people go what the ♣♦♠♥ when 85ing someone is not enough. Even famous APB players and Streamers are often too famous for this & it happens too frequently even though they know weapon-stats by heart). 4 » Do you want less bloom and more recoil for more interactivity, or do you want to do half the work while watching the game play the other half for you? (as of now, it is the latter) 5 » Are Consumables going to be overhauled? Or will they continue to have this strong-potent arcadey presence that is powerful enough to be considered in any balancing attempt? (As of now, the latest medspray x2 healing buff suggests they'll be too potent but this can change [and I hope it does, it was just too far from adequate, sorry]) 6 » A lot of Players on this Earth are fond of sniping yet HVR's bloom-damage reliance is yet to be revisited (which will be a problem since APB 2.1 is currently set to market immediately upon launch as seen on the Roadmap Post by MattScott). HVR isn't some futuristic charge-laser rifle you know.. Would you revert HVR completely till further notice? Would you tone its damage down a bit? Time to make a move, this is taking too long for its own good (and no, this doesn't need the new engine). 7 » What about Rev-timers on Rocket-Launchers and things like the nfas-True Ogre? Do you think they are too long, fine as is or too short? Perhaps they shouldn't exist at all & the weapons need to be adjusted accordingly for more fluid gameplay? 8 » Should car-gameplay be tweaked at all? Perhaps 25% damage from leaving a car at max speed? Perhaps less/more tanky cars in general? Perhaps smaller/bigger explosion radius? Perhaps slower repair times? Should car mods be tweaked as well? etc. 9 » Should weapon equip times make more sense depending on weapon-size? Or should they stay as a sub-layer of cheap balancing? And more.. I'd like to see some official statement from LO as this "established baseline" is still a secret to this day.

Approved because #LTLMasterRace Amen

Very true Now that I think about it, having this mod on hard-damage guns would be something as the downside only nerfs health-damage due to APB's logic...

Indeed. Those who got banned earned their bans one way or another.

Even if LO got the cash to go back to EAC.. What effect might that have on the already semi-broken Community? 1 » We had BattlEye 2 » We had EAC 3 » Now we have BattlEye again after MattScott being optimistic to the community about it getting better & that it can serve APB better than before. 4 » After the assurances above, going back to EAC again? Yes, EAC is objectively better than BattlEye but sadly the masses don't care. 'if EAC is indeed better and you apparently have the cash, why did you revert to BattlEye?!' You'll pay hefty prices to get EAC back in order to unleash the 2nd form of the meme.

It is nice to hear there is momentum flowing after the problematic year that is 2020. Unless LO is cornered with no other option, please do delay marketing as MattScott answered the same problem in the same paragraph: MattScott already expressed that 2.1 going Live on its own isn't enough. Please consider bumping up "New player experience" to 2nd priority BARE MINIMUM.

It has been previously shown that most players dislike and won't bother spending their daily-average APB gametime around OCA-meta, yet the latest changes brought back the buffed OCA without adequate buffs accross the board to compensate.. This uncalled for experiment resulted yet again in a decline in players that is not limited to Jericho and nothing is being done to finish or temporarily/permanently undo this unfinished transition towards the new "established baseline" of weapon balance as stated in 11/25's patch. Hopefully not but if APB dies, we can all remember that APB's death was an intentional inside-job.