LilyRain

Thanks, that would be interesting if it was the case. Thanks for confirmation OP's list of changes. And I agree with your disagreement. You are showing that Fang with HS3 has drawbacks compared to IR3-Fang (which is true, HS3 is the lesser of both evils). Fang will surely not be the same at hip-firing, even worse because a mini-OBIR isn't really meant to be hipfired. I was arguing in favor for pure-RFP. RFP is ultimately losing Marksman Modifier because of HS3-Fang's existence. Players WHO OWN FANG (those who don't might as well not even bother) will have to make a choice on a non-meta-secondary between having slightly better hipfire or better accuracy down range, because it is a secondary and thus doesn't exactly allow attaching/removing modifications. It is just evident that while IR3-Fang shouldn't have existed, HS3-Fang shouldn't either despite being less bad overall. I Agree with the general sentiment but there is still high conservatism that trumps the expected benefits. If the Devs truly only have 5 hours a week, why make multiple iterations (the first being a revert with IR3→HS3 then nerfing the marksman modifier) when you can get a really good rough estimate the first time? Why would it be a problem if for example RFP was 5-7% as good as Colby .45 (whether better or worse, it is still about the same)? Like if RFP becomes substantially faster than Colby .45 or some guy thinks it is somehow worth trying to make RFP as fast as OCA/PMG then sure, that's insane (won't be as insane as that OCA ttk buff months ago, if that was fine to attempt, why this much hesitation on buffing needy weapons?). But neither of these are happening. In fact, the coming RFP is for a fact going to be weaker than the state it is being reverted to. It would be better to spend the 5 Dev-hour-time buffing some other needy weapons/vehicles or outright spending them on future game-features. Please be a BIT more brave when making changes. So far APB isn't really changing. Actually stats define everything. If OBIR didn't have its massive range (which is a stat) it would instantly become a mid-tier if not low-tier weapon. Being able to capitalize on cover is a property most if not all weapons can make use of because APB is a 3rd-person game, it doesn't count as a point for OBIR. In fact, that is why weapons like JG/CSG if close enough (or can get in a car/epinephrine to get close) are quite formidable. They can capitalize on cover but they don't really need cover. JG is CJ2-OCA speed while CSG is pure OCA speed, while not even having to track the target for the entire duration.

But how? The marksmanship modifier is getting nerfed while the fire interval, burst interval, per shot modifier, shot modifier cap, recovery delay, recovery per second and run/walk modifiers remain untouched. How does that make RFP more accurate? Is some information ommitted/forgotten to be listed? But that's exactly the core concern. Making accuracy and bloom ultimately better adds a lot of usability and enjoyment. It just happens that such a thing is the core function of Hunting Sight, making Fang again substantially better to use compared to regular RFP. There is just no escaping the drawbacks of a prime Tier 3 Mod on this weapon. Either Fang is great and regular-RFP sucks, both suck (current Live iteration) or both broken above-meta weapons (won't happen with this much conservatism on changes). Why is LO specifically against placing a Tier 1 Mod or even a Fang-shaped Tagger on RFP-'Fang'? What are they hoping for, for people to fall into the trap of buying a sub-meta weapon? I know, 'don't tell us what to do' but the situation calls for it. LO should focus its income on their future-revampment of Premium as well as more cosmetics, etc. They should stop rigging the game to oversell weapons. A good game never involves gameplay into monetization. G1 did that, many other games failed at it, LO should move over from it. This doesn't even need testing. A 30 meters weapon that needs 1 full-second to kill at perfect execution doesn't have what it takes to be meta even if it is made Little-Orbital-Satellite-levels of beam accuracy. There are weapons that kill faster with reliable accuracy while also featuring substantially more range.

Thank you for going through the hassle of recording some footage for this endeavor, much appreciated. I was hoping balancing efforts would attempt to make APB better in more ways than just to make it more functional (or revert it to functional again in RFP's case). RFP being reverted is unquestionably better than the current butchered 1.5 seconds ttk version 'just because Fang was pocket OBIR & it simply pisses me off, please nerf, thx'. But my concerns arise from Fang REMAINING vastly superior to RFP (which sucks for APB) and the fact that the current efforts clearly attempt at sanctioning its superiority. The predicament lies at the higher-edge-range as RFP is going to be a ~30 meters weapon, with a slightly less harsh damage falloff, supplemented with the reverted damage output (higher). Therefore, comparing RFP and RFP Fang when marksmanning at 13 meters unfortunately shows nothing, this range is quite easy for RFP and many other weapons. Please grab a fellow SPCT and have them be sacrificed, Dark Souls style. Compare the two weapons first at full-rate-of-fire at 25m, 30m, 35m, etc. Repeat without marksman, then compare both benchmarks to Colby .45 under the same conditions.

Thanks for pushing out another balance-patch rather quickly but this one in particular isn't exactly an improvement: RFP's problem is that the 'Fang' variant was vastly superior to standard RFP. You have decided to go with the lesser-evil that is HS3 compared to IR3. However, not dealing with the actual problem (Tier 3 mod) will make it seem like you are squeezing the situation to further favor Fang with HS3 (when in reality you are trying to prevent HS3 Fang from becoming a literal laser). You have SUBSTANTIALLY DECREASED the benefit of marksmanship modifier, which naturally makes HS3-Fang less problematic but it also makes regular RFP suffer because of it. Fang now having better accuracy and increased health damage will help it retain some power over the further increased minimum damage range... This part appears to be deliberately in favor of HS3. It isn't like hipfiring RFP within 30 meters will compete with Colby .45 and yes, it is fair to bring Colby .45 to the discussion because that weapon was touched literally previously to this so it should've been considered/remembered here, more so to how closely related half of the stats on it to RFP: both weapons have the exact same accuracy of 20cm at 10m radius, the same shot modifier cap of 1.5, roughly the same per shot modifier but .45 actually recovers faster. Problem is that the walk modifier on RFP is HIGHER than .45.... literally the only point in favor of RFP is the fact that it has the potential to kill more than 1 target without reloading. Why not just... KILL the Tier 3 Mod and replace it with Hunting Sight ONE, then make the overall changes less harsh?

By "enough" I meant the literal bare-minimum to differentiate Enforcers from Criminals. I didn't mean great or epic, which where your post comes in & I very much agree with. LTL is indeed underpowered more than necessary (those guys legit nerfed LTL and buffed OCA's ttk on the same patch) & so is the arrest-timer on Criminals. Some easy-tweaks can be made to make the overall experience better for both factions alike. Making arrested criminals respawn faster & LTL a bit stronger but still slower than other weapons in their respective categories, would solve most issues instantly. LTL-based missions? Or at least a bonus for winning particular missions with LTL? Sign me up. Damn, that's a neat idea actually. ---------------------------------------- You speak the truth. A lot of people are pushing for APB to become Team-Blue vs Team-Red, which is kinda bad on all fronts. What do they expect, for APB to compete with 5v5 shooters on the market? LO indeed wants to take in players from other communities but their efforts were in the wrong place. They tried going the BattleRoyale route with RIOT and battlepasses, totally falling on their faces.. Their best shot is to enhance what APB actually has, then push towards making APB more GTA-like (except good luck making PvE content atm. Can still have huge PvP-based heists or Enforcer-vs-Criminal warzones). The sheer amount of playerbase GTA has is outright insane it would be almost impossible to not capitalize on that. Even a small-fraction of GTA's playerbase is enough to quadruple APB's.

Crims can steal and ramraid, cops can return stolen goods and arrest. They DID make enough distinction.

Interesting superpower. Would be very effective in feeling better about things. But I know someone who used to go by the nickname R♥t♠rdium, an expert in all matters regarding the brain. I highly recommend seeking his analysis. I assure you that you won't be disappointed with what he will conclude.

Much appreciated

This is why LO doesn't listen to you. You have proven consistently that you don't check the facts (or blatantly lie).

weEGGly maintenance!

2 weeks? Sounds like plenty of Eggcitement! Thanks for the eggceptional service~

That's a lot of eggsagerations in there. When will this event eggspire btw?

I know some people whom were really good Golds at 12-17 fps without cheats, on Laptops. High fps on APB doesn't do much, there is no precise aim requirements. Only a hitbox + hitscan bullets. No headshots, no arm shots, no body nor leg-shots, nothing. I have done wonders myself at 60fps and garbage latency. This is APB, if you can either press F or hold left-mouse-button on certain weapons, you can be Gold. -------------------------- Yes, throwing a Trainee onto a full-fledged match is questionable but using those who can't differentiate between green and red names isn't a healthy metric. Those people are just existing without care. Unlikely even a good tutorial would help them. They'll proceed to exist as R255 Bronzes, might as well let them play from the start.

I am not. He wouldn't be complaining if he got Gold-teammates. It is either those or there is no match at all. Matchmaking did the best possible, nothing wrong with it.

How about "HEXERIN, MAN UP AND FIX YOUR SKILLS. IT'S PATHETIC THAT YOU'RE R255 YET BE SILVER IN THIS GAME THIS LONG"? Like seriously, don't talk down on your Bronze and Trainee teammates when you're not so special yourself.

Rather, Med Spray and Epinephrine should become equippables that requires left-click to work (just like Blowtorch). This will effectively place active weapons out of use till they are re-equipped, making the consumables not comically broken when used in an active fight. Also for Epinephrine: +50% Sprint Speed → +20%. +20% Run Speed → +7%.

Except again, in the second clip, Socks didn't utilize the weapon's mod. That wasn't "RNG", that was simply 'smash left mouse button to win' on a weapon that isn't designed that way. Plus, not even jg would 2 shot at that distance so its "overdamage" wouldn't make the situation better. Time to kill in that situation is the same for both. Socks again kept himself at 14 meters, didn't MOVE IN and kept shooting by the stairs just because he wanted to go up after the kill. If this continues I'd assume he's faking clips to make the weapon look bad. Some shotguns most certainly do reward better aim. CSG (and its reskin the Tas-20) surely do as they combine better damage over distance with HALF the spread of JG. Fun fact: If Socks was using CSG in the first clip, the target would've still been alive as Sock's aim was way off. CSG is simply more accurate meaning less damage from 'side pellettes'. What is even more important is the current design philosophy behind APB when it comes to weapons. Within every class (close, mid, far), weapons are distributed to excel in certain roles while still retaining power in the same class. Thumper and JG are tuned to be deadlier in CQC as well as faster, your only objective is to get close in a game that also happens to have made Epinephrine THE MOST BROKEN yellow consumable of them ALL. Thumper has a very fast killing potential that can only rivaled by things such as LMGs. Plus, its effective range was given Improved Rifling 3 by default due to its mod being red. If you make Thumper's pellets as good as CSG's it would become the new king of shotguns with absolutely no competitor. This isn't going to happen unless APB's philosophy gets removed or a major weapon balance change happens.

It already is. It is a manual nfas with added accuracy as well as further accuracy with a built-in mod. There are way too many shotguns in the game to make a unique one. Perhaps do you have an original idea to propose for Thumper or any future shotgun? Plus, your first clip shows 5 shots where not a single one was aimed on target. Not.. a... single.. one. Watch it yourself at x0.25 speed. You got a 1.2s ttk in a situation where any other weapon that doesn't feature splash damage wouldn't have got you that. If you call rewarding shitty-aim "shit" then a core point in this entire thread is fulfilled. You're already getting rewarded for bad aim, APB for a fact doesn't need shotgun ray-scaling back.

No problem, quality is more than enough There is a recurring, fundamental gameplay mistake in all of these clips that stem from improper distance gauging. You are playing the weapon like a carbine, not like an nfas as well as prioritizing defense when offense is the play & vice versa, you also only ever use Thumper's ability at like 25+ meters on the 4th clip (0:25→0:41). That range is too far it is even outside PMG's effective range (PMG would take 1.05s to kill there assuming no shots miss). Actually getting +75 assist on that was majestic. First clip (0:00 → 0.02): You were approaching the target but instead of converging in further (or at least maintain distance), you WENT BACK. You have an innate tendency of falling back outside effective range and that is a core problem (you are subconsciously trying to maintain 15+ meters as if you are rubberbanding). Shotguns aren't meant to retreat, they either push forward or hold corners. Additionally, if you play the clip at x0.25 speed, you have fired 6 times but the last shot was made after the target was dead, so we're looking at 5 shots. ONLY 1 of them was aimed right. The first shot was completely too far left, the second was way over the target's head, the third was also too far left, the 4th was actually good but you already retreated at that point, the fifth was below a jumping target and also too far right. Second clip (0:03 → 0:13): Same problems but in a different location. You started an engagement to a far target and stayed by your door for possible cover, problem is that there was no objective behind you to defend as you're not playing a mission. The right play for a here was to wait. That's right, wait as the target was relatively coming in your direction which would've allowed you to either meet them point blank or to capitalize on their behind if they went to the upper-stairs or adjacent room. Regardless, target retreated to the hallway, you decided to chase BUT your chase was ineffective. Rather than running towards the hallway, you ran straight out while looking at the target, you innately again maintained distance. You went in just a tad bit closer while missing shots, finally made it to the wall by the right. Rather than dropping shots while peeking out and back in as you had cover-advantage, you RETREATED AGAIN while completely exposing yourself as well as missing another shot before landing one prior to dying. Third clip (0:14 - 0:16): Much better engagement location but you didn't move in still, actually tapped 'S' a bit, missed one of the shots and completely did not use Thumper's mod. It would've made the difference there. Fourth clip (0:25→0:41): Simply too far. had cover and didn't use a low-yield grenade at all despite them having the ability to explode a bit faster. Again, not even SMGs are at their prime there. Last clip (0:41 → end): Prioritized defense when offense was the play. You witnessed the Target dropping down with a pistol and instead of moving in as you HAVE the ttk advantage, you decided to prioritize grabbing the objective circle, followed by staying back incase you 'needed' cover (and you actually did take cover behind the wall to the left). You have finally moved in for the kill as your teammate distracted the target. You're just playing it wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But what you want to have the Balancers do is clear, it is something a part of the community vouched for myself included and it seems the Balancers didn't want it. That would be to make things just a bit less arcadey and just a tad bit more realistic. Nobody wants full-realism but they used that excuse to make the game the COMPLETE opposite, too damn role-centric. This would make every weapon dangerous in more than 1 category (CQC weapons would do well in both CQC and a bit of lower-mid-range, mid-range can extend a bit further or get less harsh damage drop over distance. additional possible changes would be to reduce wind up timers on nfas true ogre and osmaw, or completely get rid of wind timers if the game proves to be too fast for them. Perfect concussion grenades would 1-shot again unless flak jacket is equipped but of course Clotting Agent 3 was too beloved for them it was out of the question, etc.). Sadly, they chose against it and wanted the nonsense of "weapon identities", further making weapons role-centric. The game has way too many weapons for its own good thanks to Joker Mystery Boxes. Little Orbit succeeded in making ARMAS weapons more accessible and killing off Joker Boxes but they are yet to even dare to make the move of .... effectively deleting some redundant weapons by making them reskins of other dominant ones in their respective categories. LO didn't even buff unique ones yet (Thumper doesn't qualify, it is a different take at nfas). If such a thing happens, APB would become a more logical game, making the way you are playing now fine (if you stop missing). Till then (which is highly, almost certainly unlikely), you must play the game the way it is currently designed by paying closer attention to your actual distance to opponents. This is APB, a game of choice and distances so improve your distance gauging.

I already have. One doesn't simply get a killstreak with a "useless" class of weapons and I've done it with the one that is considered low on that class. Your claim is FACTUALLY far from reality. If you have this much time to blame shotguns, work on your abilities, you might've gotten somewhere by now.

But why? The sun should light upon us every now and then. Moreover, couldn't this permanent nighttime setting wait till the known issue is addressed?

What really needs to happen is a filter where those who have no clue to what they are suggesting (such as yourself) to not be allowed to speak.

Says the guy who claimed ALL shotguns are useless. Your words carry zero value. ------------------------- That image shows PvE teammed up with Springhour, which you lot don't even compare to their level. Go ahead, call them "low skilled", doesn't make it true. ------------- Say what you will to make yourselves feel less pathetic, it won't change the reality of the situation that you guys aren't even remotely relevant nor qualified to speak correctly in any game balancing thread.

"Done talking with you." → appears back instantly. The mark of a Troll. I'm sorry but you don't make the rules. 1 count that is worth twice the score, simply because LTL is an uphill battle and more rightfully so. You don't even know how to read scoreboards. If you understand fragile is a bad mod then you should understand the feat. Doing well with a bad mod is a good thing in itself, not the opposite like you have claimed. Not really hard to understand but apparently all you can do is bark Silver this Silver that like the dog you are with zero substantiation. You try to downplay others because you can't rise up yourself, simply pathetic. And because you tried to downplay the list of opponents by saying "In the pic you showed there's no good criminal".... for your information, I did also MVP missions against some of the best players using LTL and fragile as well. I recorded parts of the match in slighly low bitrate for economical purposes but the scoreboard can be made sense of: This is the last piece of undeniable proof. I hope you learned something today but that's doubtful. I have better things to do. "Done talking with you"

I see your knowledge is still lacking in almost every way there is. - 1 arrest = 2 kills, so your math is simply wrong. That's effectively 31 to 15. - You speak as if fragile is an advantage when it isn't. If you are a true gold, you'd get out of your clotting agent 3 comfort zone, which you can't. Perhaps you're the one who should quit, you use easy-mode setups and you're still not relevant, lmfao. Try talking to me again in 100 years.