Can ex-cheaters really go legit?

[TheJellyGoo]

7 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

no no, i was diagnosed with a severe lack of brain cells years ago

 

i fear it may be terminal tbh

Oh... but don't worry if it's like this - Ignorance is bliss - Glad I could be of service 

Edited April 27, 2019 by TheJellyGoo

[UubeNubeh DaWog]

13 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

who knew we had so many accomplished psychologists within the apb community :^)

Im not sure you need a psychological degree to know that usually people take actions based on their past experiences and sometimes future goals to make themselves happy or to reduce the most amount of harm done to them.

[yood]

unfortunately. YES .

[NotTheEnforcer]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:08 AM, TheJellyGoo said:

 

Seeing as you proclaim that the damages you did while cheating for half a year amount to less than a dollar show how wrong your own perception on the topic is.

While you are just one cheater you are part of a collective problem that causes exponential more damage.

 

Not to forget the ruined time of the players that you have met over half a year (hard to put a prize on that). Unless you say they don't matter?

Given this time I am really reaching far since that can hardly be called criminal rather just a case of egoistical pleasant fellow. Pardon. Educated egoistical pleasant fellow. Cheers.

 

That part. That part is what irks me that you don't know what you're talking about. You say *MY* perception is off, yet you refuse to counter it with any sort of value. Any POTENTIAL (if any) damages I caused were extremely minimal in the grand scheme. The fact that you think cheaters are such a huge issue shows how completely skewed your perception is. Cheaters are visible in APB because theres less than 1000 players in the fucking game, meaning you have an exponentially higher chance of encountering here than say, Battlefield 4.

 

And let me state here that I was counting the time of other players as part of the potential damages. Their time has extremely little value to begin with considering theyre using it on video games. This isn't their job, it isn't their livelihood. I wasnt impacting their lives or forcing them to do things that bring about a negative affect to their lives. 

The whole rant of yours alone shows that you have zero grasp of the concept of industry and business. All this shit about the industry "growing old enough to consider cheating a crime". The game industry is over 40 years old already. Cheating is a crime in countries where cultural lack of education about cheating persists (see: China).

 

Also, Cheat Developers != Cheat Users. Cheat Developers have a much more noticeable impact (obviously) than the user. Either learn how the fucking industry works or don't participate in the argument at all, as you have provided absolutely nothing of value. 

 

ILL REMIND YOU THAT I HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT, YOU HAVE NOT.

[UubeNubeh DaWog]

12 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Any POTENTIAL (if any) damages I caused were extremely minimal in the grand scheme.

How do you know this? What kind of data is accessible to you as a cheater to know how much damage you cause?

12 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Cheaters are visible in APB because theres less than 1000 players in the fucking game, meaning you have an exponentially higher chance of encountering here than say, Battlefield 4.

It may be true to have a higher chance of encountering a cheater however that doesnt mean they are not visable in any other game.

 

https://mashable.com/article/csgo-record-vac-bans/

https://www.dexerto.com/apex-legends/how-many-apex-legends-cheaters-have-been-banned-so-far-436774

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/03/cheat-makers-say-theyre-cleaning-up-in-apex-legends/

 

12 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Their time has extremely little value to begin with considering theyre using it on video games. This isn't their job, it isn't their livelihood. I wasnt impacting their lives or forcing them to do things that bring about a negative affect to their lives. 

Another thing you don't explicitly know. You dont know how other people respond to cheating behavior because you cant see beyond their character. Gaming might not be peoples livelihoods, however people play games for entertainment in their free time. Do you think some people would be ok if their entertainment in their free time was interrupted by someone continually cheating?

 

12 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

The whole rant of yours alone shows that you have zero grasp of the concept of industry and business. All this shit about the industry "growing old enough to consider cheating a crime". The game industry is over 40 years old already. Cheating is a crime in countries where cultural lack of education about cheating persists (see: China).

 

What does the gaming industry being 40 years have to do with anything? Have we reached peak gaming industry? Has everything that can be done been done already?

 

Cheating "persists" in every country. Does Korea lack cultrual education also?

https://dotesports.com/overwatch/news/south-korean-law-to-punish-boosters-passes-in-the-national-assembly

https://www.fraghero.com/korean-government-makes-cheating-videogames-actual-crime/

 

12 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Also, Cheat Developers != Cheat Users. Cheat Developers have a much more noticeable impact (obviously) than the user. Either learn how the fucking industry works or don't participate in the argument at all, as you have provided absolutely nothing of value.

If there were no cheat users, cheat developers would be worthless.

 

12 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

ILL REMIND YOU THAT I HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT, YOU HAVE NOT.

What does this mean?

Are you saying you cant understand what harm cheat users cause unless you cheat yourself?

Are you saying that you have knowledge about other people you can only know if you cheat?

 

Based on what you've said so far, if individual cheaters caused almost no harm, then why ban them at all?

Edited April 29, 2019 by UubeNubeh DaWog

[vsb]

3 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Any POTENTIAL (if any) damages I caused were extremely minimal in the grand scheme.

but literally anything is minimal in the "grand scheme"

 

 

[TheJellyGoo]

12 hours ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

-zip-

Summed it up pretty good. Nothing more to add. I'm through with it.

15 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

[...]

Their time has extremely little value to begin with considering theyre using it on video games. This isn't their job, it isn't their livelihood. I wasnt impacting their lives or forcing them to do things that bring about a negative affect to their lives. 

 

[...]

You're not worth any more of my time.

[NotTheEnforcer]

6 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Summed it up pretty good. Nothing more to add. I'm through with it.

You're not worth any more of my time.

Im surprised you used any of your time at all considering what a worthless perspective you have on the issue anyway. Like a flat-earther trying to debate a geologic process.

 

Merged.

 

19 hours ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

What does this mean?

Are you saying you cant understand what harm cheat users cause unless you cheat yourself?

Are you saying that you have knowledge about other people you can only know if you cheat?

That's exactly what I mean. Think about it. You, as a legitimate player who has not cheated, are only experiencing or have experienced ONE side of the argument. You can only see the effects from ONE side.

I however, have experienced both sides. I have been the affected, and I have been the one affecting others. I experienced both sides of the argument. This argument does not have equal grounds, unless you have experienced both sides then you do not know the overall affects. You cant understand the full extent of what is happening unless you've experienced the full extent of the argument. Simple enough?

 

Honestly, is that not the first rule of debating? You need to understand all the perspectives in order to debate anything properly, otherwise you bring nothing of value.

Quote

Based on what you've said so far, if individual cheaters caused almost no harm, then why ban them at all?

Again, you only have one perspective so you fail to take into account WHERE exactly the harm is. Cheaters harm the community far more than the harm the industry. You could argue that harming the community harms the industry, and you'd be somewhat-right. But only to a small extent. Think of the industry as an apple orchard, and the apples as the community. The apple orchard suffers from blight (cheaters). The orchard has 1000 trees and 10 trees are affected by the blight. This harms all the apples on those trees that experience the blight. And yes, this does affect the orchard's business, but again, minimally. You can cut down those blighted trees and replant new ones, but the blight will always return one way or another at some point

 

The portion of the community affected by those cheaters is small compared to the rest of the community. However, they tend to be extremely vocal, as evidenced by a certain someone claiming it should be a crime. 

 

But then again, if everyone is so interested in what harm has come from cheaters financially, why not just ask the person who would know that information instead of whining and arguing on the forums about it with other people and then jumping out of the argument when you realize you have nothing to contribute except your opinion that has no informational basis?

 

Merged.

 

18 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

but literally anything is minimal in the "grand scheme"

 

 

Exactly. If I had decided not to cheat, the game would still be in the same place as it is today. My impact did not change the course of this game or this community in any significant way. Why people fail to see that, I don't know.

[vsb]

6 minutes ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Exactly. If I had decided not to cheat, the game would still be in the same place as it is today. My impact did not change the course of this game or this community in any significant way. Why people fail to see that, I don't know.

you've decided to ignore (or just aren't smart enough to understand) the actual point of my post - that your perceived minimal personal impact does not absolve/justify your actions

 

we have no idea if the game would truly be in same place it is today, because we have no idea how many people you affected are how much you affected them

 

24 minutes ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

That's exactly what I mean. Think about it. You, as a legitimate player who has not cheated, are only experiencing or have experienced ONE side of the argument. You can only see the effects from ONE side.

I however, have experienced both sides. I have been the affected, and I have been the one affecting others. I experienced both sides of the argument. This argument does not have equal grounds, unless you have experienced both sides then you do not know the overall affects. You cant understand the full extent of what is happening unless you've experienced the full extent of the argument. Simple enough?

 

Honestly, is that not the first rule of debating? You need to understand all the perspectives in order to debate anything properly, otherwise you bring nothing of value.

there aren't two sides to this argument unless you truly think that someone who has quit the game because of cheaters has the same thoughts/opinions as someone who still plays, similarly i know for a fact your opinions on cheating arent shared by all cheaters (hint: i disagree)

 

there are numerous stances on cheating all fueled by different perspectives, if everyone understood everything there would be no point in debating

 

i think there's a logical fallacy here as (for example) you don't need to murder someone to understand the effects murder has on other people, thats a ridiculous statement 

 

49 minutes ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Think of the industry as an apple orchard, and the apples as the community. The apple orchard suffers from blight (cheaters). The orchard has 1000 trees and 10 trees are affected by the blight. This harms all the apples on those trees that experience the blight. And yes, this does affect the orchard's business, but again, minimally. You can cut down those blighted trees and replant new ones, but the blight will always return one way or another at some point

this analogy sucks

 

57 minutes ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Again, you only have one perspective so you fail to take into account WHERE exactly the harm is. Cheaters harm the community far more than the harm the industry. You could argue that harming the community harms the industry, and you'd be somewhat-right. But only to a small extent.

the community is the industry, let's not pretend that companies would invest hundreds of millions of dollars into digital products if no one was buying them

 

1 hour ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

The portion of the community affected by those cheaters is small compared to the rest of the community. However, they tend to be extremely vocal, as evidenced by a certain someone claiming it should be a crime. 

source - https://resources.irdeto.com/irdeto-global-gaming-survey

 

more than 50% doesn't seem small or "minimal"

 

1 hour ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

But then again, if everyone is so interested in what harm has come from cheaters financially, why not just ask the person who would know that information 

are you implying that you would know that information? i hope not

 

because while its doubtful that there's anyone with complete knowledge of financial damage caused by cheaters, only someone with access to an actual company's metrics would be able to give any concrete info on this topic and even then likely only for that specific company

 

1 hour ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

nothing to contribute except your opinion that has no informational basis?

being a cheater doesnt magically give you knowledge of the effects your actions have any more than being legit magically gives you knowledge of why cheaters cheat in the first place

 

you seem to think that your opinion is fact despite admitting to not experiencing all perspectives related to cheating and its effects

[UubeNubeh DaWog]

14 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

That's exactly what I mean. Think about it. You, as a legitimate player who has not cheated, are only experiencing or have experienced ONE side of the argument. You can only see the effects from ONE side.

I however, have experienced both sides. I have been the affected, and I have been the one affecting others. I experienced both sides of the argument. This argument does not have equal grounds, unless you have experienced both sides then you do not know the overall affects. You cant understand the full extent of what is happening unless you've experienced the full extent of the argument. Simple enough?

For the sake of the argument lets say i have experienced both sides and i still hold the same positions, because you still have to substantiate your opinions and claims

 

Now can you translate what you've said into any of the questions i've laid out before? Im looking forward to seeing the differences between two people who have had the same experiences but came to different conclusions.

 

14 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

Honestly, is that not the first rule of debating? You need to understand all the perspectives in order to debate anything properly, otherwise you bring nothing of value.

Again, you only have one perspective so you fail to take into account WHERE exactly the harm is. Cheaters harm the community far more than the harm the industry. You could argue that harming the community harms the industry, and you'd be somewhat-right. But only to a small extent.

The whole point of "debating" is having the most logically sound argument, its not always a competition of who can remember the most correct answers. It is possible to use good logical reasoning to reach a sound conclusion regardless of when you know the relevant information.

When i ask you a question im questioning how sound your argument is. Im not asking you a question about something that is not understood.

 

I was very clear differentiating where the harm can come from. You don't have to cheat to understand the difference between playing a game and gaming as a whole.

 

No one is claiming that cheating is the biggest issue to plague the industry (lets be real some people are), however just because its not taking over 50% of the industry does not mean it causes an acceptable amount of damage.

 

14 hours ago, NotTheEnforcer said:

But then again, if everyone is so interested in what harm has come from cheaters financially, why not just ask the person who would know that information instead of whining and arguing on the forums about it with other people and then jumping out of the argument when you realize you have nothing to contribute except your opinion that has no informational basis?

Because you're begging the question, you have already said that you know that your personal amount of harm dealt is minimal, and yet you will not substantiate as to how you would know this. Its YOUR claim that your time as a cheater had no effect or caused "minimal" damage (community or industry wise). When the cheating industry as a whole (your time included) has been documented to have a large effect on the gaming industry that means that everything (your time included again) adds up and you cant add up with 0's.

Talk about not having an informational basis.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by UubeNubeh DaWog

[lekki]

Simple answer: yes. I was a cheater in CoD1, stopped cheating, don't cheat anymore.
As for the people who have been cheating in APB for years, I don't know what their mindset is. I don't know if they are obsessed and ''under the influence'' of cheats, but cheating for years and years and not get banned is actually not their fault. If they were caught, they would probably think about the time & money invested in the game and not take a chance at cheating knowing they can actually get banned. If not, by all means cheat on. If cheaters can still dominate districts and not get banned, what's the point to stop now? I believe cheating for X number of years just makes you believe everyone else must be using cheats since they have been using them for so long, so why not continue? If by a miracle they get banned they will just say I had a heck of a ride with cheats in this sub 1000 population game, and move on with their lives unaffected. It's way cheaper than doping in professional sports and there is way **** more on the line and they are still doing it. It's the nature of people. Some will try to exploit the system to achieve their goals, and some will work their patootie off to achieve the same goals.
But yes, ex-cheaters can become clean.

Edited April 30, 2019 by lekki
Adding

[ittibitium]

4 hours ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

For the sake of the argument lets say i have experienced both sides and i still hold the same positions, because you still have to substantiate your opinions and claims

 

Now can you translate what you've said into any of the questions i've laid out before? Im looking forward to seeing the differences between two people who have had the same experiences but came to different conclusions.

 

The whole point of "debating" is having the most logically sound argument, its not always a competition of who can remember the most correct answers. It is possible to use good logical reasoning to reach a sound conclusion regardless of when you know the relevant information.

When i ask you a question im questioning how sound your argument is. Im not asking you a question about something that is not understood.

 

I was very clear differentiating where the harm can come from. You don't have to cheat to understand the difference between playing a game and gaming as a whole.

 

No one is claiming that cheating is the biggest issue to plague the industry (lets be real some people are), however just because its not taking over 50% of the industry does not mean it causes an acceptable amount of damage.

 

Because you're begging the question, you have already said that you know that your personal amount of harm dealt is minimal, and yet you will not substantiate as to how you would know this. Its YOUR claim that your time as a cheater had no effect or caused "minimal" damage (community or industry wise). When the cheating industry as a whole (your time included) has been documented to have a large effect on the gaming industry that means that everything (your time included again) adds up and you cant add up with 0's.

Talk about not having an informational basis.

 

love how you tirelessly try to have an logical argument with that dude.

never have I seen such a lack of thorough-thinking & empathy for different perspectives. I wouldn‘t want to waste time with him, glad you are doing it for us, hopefully he is capable of understanding

[RubenFNReal]

I hacked in a game when I was 12 cause I thought it was fun to see a super long kill feed. 

Pretty sure cheaters can stop lol 

[CookiePuss]

I mean, its a known fact that people change.

Some more, some less, but its not up for debate whether or not it happens.

 

How is this thread still active?

[watsoNN]

I only cheated once, she was a b***h though. Never again, reformed cheater here.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Watson_

[Fortune Runner]

8 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I mean, its a known fact that people change.

Some more, some less, but its not up for debate whether or not it happens.

 

How is this thread still active?

^^^^^^ THIS !!!!

btw cookie you forgot to drop the mic after that awesome point

[MrM0dZ]

Well Robert Downey Jr was arrested for drugs and today is a well respected actor and also the Iron Man, so YES people can change

[vsb]

29 minutes ago, MrM0dZ said:

and also the Iron Man

not anymore he's not

:^)

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by BXNNXD
spoiler

[Fortune Runner]

1 hour ago, BXNNXD said:

 

future undefined. possible crossover. cant say more.

[AsgerLund]

16 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I mean, its a known fact that people change.

Some more, some less, but its not up for debate whether or not it happens.

 

How is this thread still active?

It has already been established in this thread, that it takes losing a partner or a child to the claws of death to finally have enough incentive for a cheater to stop cheating. So if you are a cheater and your spouse and children are still well and alive, you will continue to cheat until something horrible with a deadly outcome happens to either of them.

[NyanPowa]

Based on a study by EasyAntiCheat, players who successfully cheat online never ever stop cheating and will consider playing games only if theyre able to cheat.

[vsb]

3 hours ago, NyanPowa said:

Based on a study by EasyAntiCheat, players who successfully cheat online never ever stop cheating and will consider playing games only if theyre able to cheat.

aside from the obvious potential bias, i find this hard to believe

 

would you care to provide a link to this study? i’m genuinely interested in reading it

[NotTheEnforcer]

On 5/1/2019 at 8:20 AM, NyanPowa said:

Based on a study by EasyAntiCheat, players who successfully cheat online never ever stop cheating and will consider playing games only if theyre able to cheat.

Based on a study conducted by a company who makes profits off of this industry, they claim that their target revenue source will never stop producing revenue for them.

 

Seems legit, like an oil company saying that oil is the best energy source.

Edited May 2, 2019 by NotTheEnforcer