radical idea

[tennogrineer 71]

3 hours ago, Lucidy said:

Shotguns : Needed more time to balance, live build needs shotgun buffs to be reverted (Showtopper is w/e, all the others need more time before pushed to live build)
IR3: Revert the change no one asked for that crippled every single marksman and many preset modded guns. This was a bad way to change how things were fine beforehand.


 

for these two things:

• yes, shotguns need more time. not all the shotguns, just the hot ones. but they all should have clear value to use. not just "use a csg or else"
• ir hasnt affected marksman weapons as much as people like to exaggerate. they made it way easier to stick to their designed optimal ranges without the manual intervention of having to control firerate for accuracy.

Edited August 10, 2018 by tennogrineer
these forums.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

4 hours ago, Triksterism said:

I would rather have the 'new' mods changed rather than removed. Things weren't all sunshine and rainbows before their introduction either. Pioneers were still used heavily (im looking at you Armas Pio) and arguably harder to deal with.

> CAR SPAWNER: Disable the ability to spawn if the vehicle is moving with the possibility to counteract this if you use muffler
> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)
> REMOTE DETONATOR: Give it a longer cooldown and/or make it also increase brick's cooldown.
> BLOW TORCH: Reduced the usage time by half. If used while car surfing or while hanging out of a window, reduce the effectiveness by 25-50%
> LOW YIELDS: Increase their resupply time by 50-100%. Reduce their number to 2 but if you use flak jacket, they dont get their number reduced (2 instead of 1).
> RADAR TOWER: Pretty balanced imo. Keep it as is
> YELLOW MODS: Just make them permanent already
> BOOM BOX: Make this useful by making it an AoE anti-radar tower / anti-car spawner deployable. Or make it a 'decoy' object (makes random gunfire noises).
> MED SPRAY / MOBILE COVER / RESUPPLY BOX (both) / EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR / SATCHEL CHARGE: These all feel pretty balanced as-is. Maybe add a despawn timer to deployables

> VEHICLES: Give different vehicles bonuses/penalties to certain mods.
      Some examples:
                               Mikro gets a range bonus to radar tower but a penalty to car spawner
                               Pioneer gets a bonus to fast fix but a reduced effectiveness penalty to steel plating
                               Kurai gets a bonus to steel plating (mod penalty reduction perhaps) but a penalty to fireproofing


@Nanometic @mynd @Abduct / Devote @indi @Tobii @Dopefish -- Thoughts?
 

So, Car spawner changes would be great. Car surfer? I think the problem with the mod is not the mod itself, but what weaponry you can use while on top of said vehicle. Not sure how they'd fix that though, so who knows maybe the mod does need a tweak. 

Low yields nerfs seem solid, blow torch adjustments as well. I'd really like to see something similar if not the same to these implemented. Remote det... I honestly don't have the experience using it to give a good analysis on it. 

Radar tower is fine as is I agree, last options were all pretty good too. I really do wish they were perm. I feel like different vehicles getting different bonuses for stuff and penalties would make sense, but some of that is over complicating it. 

[Snubnose 639]

4 hours ago, Triksterism said:

I can't just sit here and read this without having a really strong urge to reply, since some of your suggestions are just unreasonable.


> CAR SPAWNER: Disable the ability to spawn if the vehicle is moving with the possibility to counteract this if you use muffler

moving vehicles aren't really the problem, the problem is the range it's getting blocked by enemies, it's simply just too small and should be expanded (maybe like 80m).

> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)

never had a problem with car surfing people other than running with the item and AV weapons. other than that they have no cover and it's really nothing that bothers, since it's really easy tracking a carsurfing target. I'd be ok if there was a slight accuracy penalty but nothing too serious.

> REMOTE DETONATOR: Give it a longer cooldown and/or make it also increase brick's cooldown.

give it like a 45secs - 1 min cooldown (agreed on that point), but just remove extended explosion radius as a car mod... it's only purpose is to buff detonator. it's hard enough if the detonator car goes off and you have to run out of the huge radius, but meanwhile the enemy can shoot at you while you can't shoot back because you had to run, which leads to certain death.

> BLOW TORCH: Reduced the usage time by half. If used while car surfing or while hanging out of a window, reduce the effectiveness by 25-50%

don't see the reason to reduce blowtorch cooldown more if there's a penalty for using it while carsurfing or hanging out of the window. it's really not that OP or annoying but again - a tool used by people that run with items, wich is another problem that needs to be solved but not by nerfing blowtorch too much.

> LOW YIELDS: Increase their resupply time by 50-100%. Reduce their number to 2 but if you use flak jacket, they dont get their number reduced (2 instead of 1).

pretty much agree on that, even though IMO the whole explosive spam in APB should get reduced... maybe by reducing all grenades to 1 (and give them slightly higher resupply time), or nerfing explosion radius overall.

> RADAR TOWER: Pretty balanced imo. Keep it as is

no. this is the worst. it's a free 2d radar cheat for a certain area (areas, if multiple people use it) with no penalty. also, "just destroy the car" is not a valid point, since this exposes you aswell, and often the car is placed so it's not too easy being destroyed so you're already spotted when you have the opportunity to destroy it... also, enemies will just respawn it after it has been destroyed (if you didn't manage to do the objective by then).

just by the way: had a 2v2 mission on waterfront, enemies were defending and had 2 radar towers placed at the only 2 entry points towards the objective... every other area was easily covered with your own eyes, so there was no point of sneaking around anywhere... and bumrushing wasn't a good option at all since they had the cover and elevated position and were prepared for that. radar tower is just too cheesy.

> YELLOW MODS: Just make them permanent already

agreed.

> BOOM BOX: Make this useful by making it an AoE anti-radar tower / anti-car spawner deployable. Or make it a 'decoy' object (makes random gunfire noises).

agreed.


> MED SPRAY / MOBILE COVER / RESUPPLY BOX (both) / EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR / SATCHEL CHARGE: These all feel pretty balanced as-is. Maybe add a despawn timer to deployables

mobile cover is just stupid... it's instant cover even though you should've died. this needs like a 2 second deploy time.
others are ok I guess...


> VEHICLES: Give different vehicles bonuses/penalties to certain mods.
      Some examples:
                               Mikro gets a range bonus to radar tower but a penalty to car spawner
                               Pioneer gets a bonus to fast fix but a reduced effectiveness penalty to steel plating
                               Kurai gets a bonus to steel plating (mod penalty reduction perhaps) but a penalty to fireproofing

this is a nice idea to bring up the low - mid tier cars to be more useful... I'd love to drive a sentinel if it get's increased steel plating stats.



additionally I'd like to mention SPOTTER

it needs to tell the spotted player that he's been spotted. just like firework launcher does. (even though IMO firework launcher should get it's spotting range reduced, so we have a chance to run away from being spotted). also, reduce time of being spotted... I think it's somewhere around 8-10 seconds right now, reduce it to 5, that's enough for your teammates to notice and doesn't take you out of the game for too long. Edited August 10, 2018 by Snubnose
gotta edit, something went wrong lul

[mynd 120]

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

I feel like different vehicles getting different bonuses for stuff and penalties would make sense, but some of that is over complicating it. 

I don't think the point is to over-complicate, but to some how bring more viability to lesser used cars in interesting ways.  This is the beginning of an idea that could definitely evolve into something more than what's stated here.

I'd honestly like to see all cars have a viability, or at least Cisco tier and up?

Not sure how I feel about Car Surfer.  Maybe the guns you can't hang out windows with would also cause you to fall off said vehicle?  That would fix Alig running for instance, but not ISSR running (that hard damage needs to go).  May be a step in the right direction going that route.  I don't think I like the idea of Car Surfer as an active skill. Edited August 10, 2018 by mynd
grammar

[Triksterism 137]

@Snubnose
 

Quote

> CAR SPAWNER:
moving vehicles aren't really the problem, the problem is the range it's getting blocked by enemies, it's simply just too small and should be expanded (maybe like 80m).

Boom Box!
 

Quote

> CAR SURFER: never had a problem with car surfing people other than running with the item and AV weapons. other than that they have no cover and it's really nothing that bothers, since it's really easy tracking a carsurfing target. I'd be ok if there was a slight accuracy penalty but nothing too serious.

Running is exactly why I proposed what I did. 1 or more guys hanging out the windows with blow torches and one alig or w/e on top
 

Quote

> REMOTE DETONATOR: give it like a 45secs - 1 min cooldown (agreed on that point), but just remove extended explosion radius as a car mod... it's only purpose is to buff detonator. it's hard enough if the detonator car goes off and you have to run out of the huge radius, but meanwhile the enemy can shoot at you while you can't shoot back because you had to run, which leads to certain death.

The explosion radius mod was around before remote det was, but yeah, I agree that they pair well but idk, I think that's fine.
 

Quote

> BLOW TORCH: don't see the reason to reduce blowtorch cooldown more if there's a penalty for using it while carsurfing or hanging out of the window. it's really not that OP or annoying but again - a tool used by people that run with items, wich is another problem that needs to be solved but not by nerfing blowtorch too much.

I think you misunderstood. I dont want to reduce the cooldown, I want to reduce the length of time you can 'use' it.
 

Quote

> LOW YIELDS: pretty much agree on that, even though IMO the whole explosive spam in APB should get reduced... maybe by reducing all grenades to 1 (and give them slightly higher resupply time), or nerfing explosion radius overall.

1 nade max might be a bit much. Definitely agree with the resupply time though (as I stated in my post). The biggest problem I feel is the resupply.
 

Quote

> RADAR TOWER: no. this is the worst. it's a free 2d radar cheat for a certain area (areas, if multiple people use it) with no penalty. also, "just destroy the car" is not a valid point, since this exposes you aswell, and often the car is placed so it's not too easy being destroyed so you're already spotted when you have the opportunity to destroy it... also, enemies will just respawn it after it has been destroyed (if you didn't manage to do the objective by then).

That's why I proposed the boom box change. I feel like that'd be better than exposing yourself to nade it or w/e
 

Quote

additionally I'd like to mention SPOTTER

it needs to tell the spotted player that he's been spotted. just like firework launcher does. (even though IMO firework launcher should get it's spotting range reduced, so we have a chance to run away from being spotted). also, reduce time of being spotted... I think it's somewhere around 8-10 seconds right now, reduce it to 5, that's enough for your teammates to notice and doesn't take you out of the game for too long.

I agree with spotter needing to be noticeable by the people getting spotted.

[Similarities 226]

13 minutes ago, mynd said:

I'd honestly like to see all cars have a viability, or at least Cisco tier and up?

 

The issue with the Cisco that keeps it from being viable isn't even that it dies in a conc, the Coywolf does too, the issue is the car handles like a fucking coke can with a rock in it, it's low to the ground, it should be able to hug corners super hard but it fishtails if you so much as look at it incorrectly.

[Tobii 346]

7 hours ago, Triksterism said:

-snip-
 

> CAR SPAWNER: Disable the ability to spawn if the vehicle is moving with the possibility to counteract this if you use muffler

• This sounds alright, but they just need to fix car spawners in general. Being able to spawn next to a person because the server didn't update quick enough is terrible. Same goes for spawning on top of the objective.

> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)

• I agree with @Nanometic on this one. making it something you would have to activate is a nono.

> REMOTE DETONATOR: Give it a longer cooldown and/or make it also increase brick's cooldown.

• This one I have no idea about. Up the time minimum time after pressing before it blows up? Or just remove the damn thing.

> BLOW TORCH: Reduced the usage time by half. If used while car surfing or while hanging out of a window, reduce the effectiveness by 25-50%

• Reducing the time wouldn't really hurt it. But I feel like the blow torch is fine as is.

> LOW YIELDS: Increase their resupply time by 50-100%. Reduce their number to 2 but if you use flak jacket, they dont get their number reduced (2 instead of 1).

• Just limit to 2 instead of 3.

> RADAR TOWER: Pretty balanced imo. Keep it as is

• I find this one a bit meh. It's hard to balance. I would say something like the car having to be at a standstill for it to be active.
• People being able to just drive around with it to find people is a bit stupid imo.

> YELLOW MODS: Just make them permanent already

• Was thinking the same thing yesterday. there is no reason to have these as consumables. Just make them a yellow slot mod.

> BOOM BOX: Make this useful by making it an AoE anti-radar tower / anti-car spawner deployable. Or make it a 'decoy' object (makes random gunfire noises).

• While in a mission make it play sounds of your currently equipped weapon. While out of missions make it play music.

> MED SPRAY / MOBILE COVER / RESUPPLY BOX (both) / EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR / SATCHEL CHARGE: These all feel pretty balanced as-is. Maybe add a despawn timer to deployables

• Fine as is.

> VEHICLES: Give different vehicles bonuses/penalties to certain mods.

• Feels a bit like unnecessary mechanics. So I won't comment too much on that.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Tobii

[Shini 251]

8 hours ago, Triksterism said:

I would rather have the 'new' mods changed rather than removed. Things weren't all sunshine and rainbows before their introduction either. Pioneers were still used heavily (im looking at you Armas Pio) and arguably harder to deal with.

> CAR SPAWNER: Disable the ability to spawn if the vehicle is moving with the possibility to counteract this if you use muffler
> CAR SURFER: Make this an activation blue mod (we'd need another keybind). Ride on top of vehicles for x seconds (10 sounds good) with a x minute cooldown (1-2 seems right)
> REMOTE DETONATOR: Give it a longer cooldown and/or make it also increase brick's cooldown.
> BLOW TORCH: Reduced the usage time by half. If used while car surfing or while hanging out of a window, reduce the effectiveness by 25-50%
> LOW YIELDS: Increase their resupply time by 50-100%. Reduce their number to 2 but if you use flak jacket, they dont get their number reduced (2 instead of 1).
> RADAR TOWER: Pretty balanced imo. Keep it as is
> YELLOW MODS: Just make them permanent already
> BOOM BOX: Make this useful by making it an AoE anti-radar tower / anti-car spawner deployable. Or make it a 'decoy' object (makes random gunfire noises).
> MED SPRAY / MOBILE COVER / RESUPPLY BOX (both) / EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR / SATCHEL CHARGE: These all feel pretty balanced as-is. Maybe add a despawn timer to deployables

Blue car mods in general should deactivate when the vehicle is moving I think.
Car surfer in itself quite a disadvantage to the user and really only shows its effectiveness against inexperienced players (osmaw scumbags in bronze districts - fix matchmaking/dethreating) and I also think mods like car surfer only really become very powerful due to the type of awful missions we get. Missions in general need an overhaul at this point. All this weapon balancing nice but at some point we should be looking more at missions, spawns and some car mods. So in general, as a mod car surfer I think is fine.
Remote detonator - agree
Blow torch - agree I suppose
Low Yields - imo, I would say the fuse time is more of a problem than the amount, it's really a race against time to push someone with yields
Make consumables permanent- agree to be honest, tired of those damn emails and it's such a disadvantage to new low ranks
Boom box - agree

I personally think these mods should also be changed

High Burn Fuel - Make it a green car mod and make it reduce car health and/or deal reduced explosion damage of some sort. It's slowed the game down so much already with people using it as some sort of mobile shield to just cheese it and car gameplay non stop, I myself am guilty of this to the highest degree.
Radar Jammer - Make this mod do more than it currently does, make it remove spotter and flare gun tags and make it remove tagger
Spotter - Make it show the user they're tagged and reduce the tag time.
Ammo consumable - Greatly make it use more resources to resupply nades

In a general thing, normal player map spawns in APB are so badly designed at the moment it's a joke. Too many times I have spawned right next to the enemy whether it be line of sight or 20-30m away from each other. It's literally call of duty spawns on Macro size.
Back in the day spawns had some logic to it where one team spawns on one side of the objective and you could push a spawn to flip or change the spawn. Now it feels like it's random and its greatly simplified the game for worse.

  Edited August 10, 2018 by Shini

[Puffdragon 131]

Fix the model for the level 3 gas can... I got a radical idea, reskin lvl 2 gas can since the model is obviously broken.

[Painburger 15]

Car Surfer doesn't need a nerf or a new drawback. The fact you're completely exposed is enough of a negative.

[Puffdragon 131]

2 minutes ago, Painburger said:

Car Surfer doesn't need a nerf or a new drawback. The fact you're completely exposed is enough of a negative.

I think most of the above suggested changes are dumb. I think we should build on what we have, and tweak it slowly. I'm not sure why nerfing low yeilds is a good thing, they are already nerfed, that's why we get 3, the blast radius is smaller, but yes they do the same damage. The whole point is that you have to aim with them.

[dett2 64]

Please don't nerf Low-Yields.
I wanna spam it to campers.

[Dopefish 248]

> CAR SPAWNER
- Remove cooldown
- Add 60m range limit to objective
- Increase enemy range limit to 60m
> CAR SURFER
- Disable the mod if a user equips a heavy weapon (can still car surf with secondary)
> REMOTE DETONATOR
- Always detonates after 3s, no matter the range
- Detonation sound triggers immediately, instead of a second later
> BLOW TORCH
- Makes you unable to use it while leaning out of car windows
> LOW YIELDS
- Lower max damage radius from 400cm to 275cm
- Lower radius from 700cm to 400cm
- Increase fuse delay from 3s to 4s
> RADAR TOWER
- No change needed as far as I know. Radar jammer might need a buff instead.
> YELLOW MODS
- Either make them permanent, or purchasable from regular contacts.
> BOOM BOX
- No change at this time.
> MED SPRAY
- Remove the green particle effect (sound is enough)
- Add an quick animation on use (force players to do the equip time for their weapon)
> MOBILE COVER
- No change at this time.
> RESUPPLY BOX (both)
- Remove the ability to resupply grenades
> EPINEPHRINE INJECTOR
- Remove the blue particle effect (sound is enough)
- Add an quick animation on use (force players to do the equip time for their weapon)
> SATCHEL CHARGE
- Increase health damage to 500

> VEHICLES
- I don't have a good suggestion for vehicles at this time, but it's important to keep the game intuitive, and not to make it too complex with unique behavior for each mod per vehicle.

EDIT:

2 hours ago, Puffdragon said:

 I'm not sure why nerfing low yeilds is a good thing, they are already nerfed, that's why we get 3, the blast radius is smaller, but yes they do the same damage. The whole point is that you have to aim with them.

They have the exact same blast radius as frag grenades currently, they explode faster, they travel faster, and do almost the same damage. There's a very low requirement for aiming with them, and they're currently a straight upgrade from frag grenades. That's why they need to be rebalanced. Edited August 10, 2018 by Dopefish

[indi 175]

9 hours ago, Dopefish said:

> CAR SPAWNER
- Remove cooldown
- Add 60m range limit to objective
- Increase enemy range limit to 60m
> CAR SURFER
- Disable the mod if a user equips a heavy weapon (can still car surf with secondary)
> REMOTE DETONATOR
- Always detonates after 3s, no matter the range
- Detonation sound triggers immediately, instead of a second later
> BLOW TORCH
- Makes you unable to use it while leaning out of car windows
 

What about also increasing the timer on Car Spawner, make it more strategic when you use it, versus using it on cool down.

[Dopefish 248]

41 minutes ago, indi said:

What about also increasing the timer on Car Spawner, make it more strategic when you use it, versus using it on cool down.

Would mean that the system would have two separate timers, since you can switch between the spawn points instantly. Don't think it would add much to it, but it's nice to think of alternative ways to balance it, aswell as trying to make it more strategical, as compared to how it is now.

[BlakeEclipse 15]

all of this is really good... i honestly wouldn't even know what to add/remove.
 

10 hours ago, Dopefish said:

[stuff]

[Puffdragon 131]

You guys can thumb me down all you like. I spam low yeilds and prance around in da flak jacket. Guess I am doing something right.

[soLucky 7]

I don't see LO making a lot of sweeping changes all at once. Should probably narrow the focus of this a bit to say fixing car game-play or the spawn system.

[Mercuie 28]

I'm really impressed with a lot of your guy's ideas. Seems like you all really do wanna help fix issues that have been plaguing this game for awhile. I only cover a few things below because you guys already have great ideas that should be looked into.  Also almost everything I suggest below is to remove heavy vehicle meta.  Heavy cars should have a place, but not be viable for every location or strategy, just like our guns. And to be honest I might have gone too far.  So take these with a "needs more testing" sort of view!

CAR SURFER 
- Remove mod and give this as a baseline feature of pickups and if ever possible vans from side doors.  Bringing viability to these classes of cars.
REMOTE DETONATOR  
- If we have to keep this mod reduce the HP of the car on a scale. Heavier cars take the bigger HP hit, while lower HP cars barely take any, making it harder to just drive up in heavys and zone people. Plus the changes Dopefish mentioned. This could also help bring viability to more ranges of cars.
RADAR TOWER 
- Remove it's always on detection and turn it into a pulse that either the player can control or a timed thing that happens every 30s or so. This could balance it in a way to have a longer range as well. 
RESUPPLY BOX (both) 
- Like Dope said, remove the ability to resupply grenades giving a real reason to equip Mobile Supply Unit in cars again.  This increases viability for smaller cars that can get into more locations and also makes players think more wisely about when to use grenades.
HIGH BURN FUEL 
- Still does explosion damage but reduces that damage and explosion range. This mod makes people cry when you spent 40 hours blowing up a group in a heavy car only for them to get out and poop on you. This would actually make you move away from your car at the explosion point, but not very far.  I'm talking small range here.  Like less than 10.  You could scale this with how car explosions work already (big cars blow up further) making it so small cars you might not have to move at all and big cars you need to move a little.


SPAWN SYSTEM 
- While some areas of the map have benefited from elective spawn, many MANY more suffer from it. Spawns are way too close for any objective that is outside. This hurts Financial in a lot of spots and makes Waterfront attacking the worst thing to ever have to do ever because no matter how many times you kill the defenders they're back and in view before you have a chance to even do the point.
- Push out spawn distances. With this game you should never be able to spawn in view of an objective. You died and you should be punished for it. Not rewarded with a new location to continue your assault.  This also speeds up missions a bit because dying on a defend will be more costly, and defending is already the much easier task.
- If not push out spawns, change the spawns into a Left/Right system (similar to before elective spawning).  Let each side get a half circle on their side to choose from. This needs to be implemented on the edge of maps regardless because right now edge of map spawning is a nightmare of enemy teams spawning one in front of the other making for a very annoying death and also extra far spawns as one team usually gets the closer ones. That last line of text was messy but I hope you got the point.

Don't hate @ me.  I just want to help make the game better!  

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 8/9/2018 at 5:45 PM, indi said:

Revert all changes to the game from 2013 onwards and go from there. Gamersfirst really, really fucked the game up over the past few years, and trying to balance around their terrible decisions is unlikely to yield positive results.

Except for the fact that weapons are the most balanced they have ever been now.

Just because they nerfed ntec, obeya, hvr, joker, rfp, osmaw, fbw, atac, jump shooting, sprint shooting, drop shots, and buffed the star, dmr, act, pdw, nfa, atac, whatevers in the balance patch, and a bunch of others, doesn't mean that the game's fucked up.

You simply wanted the game to be the same old bs meta it always was. Some modifcations can be further rebalanced - I can agree, Spawns can be balanced - yes , several vehicles could potentially be balanced- yes, but reverting everything would be a horrible setback and screw up the game worse than it is now. Edited August 11, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[XXXXXXXXXXX 9]

On 8/9/2018 at 8:16 PM, Lucidy said:

I'll make a list of things that should be how the game is.

Shotguns : Needed more time to balance, live build needs shotgun buffs to be reverted (Showtopper is w/e, all the others need more time before pushed to live build)
IR3: Revert the change no one asked for that crippled every single marksman and many preset modded guns. This was a bad way to change how things were fine beforehand.
Ntec was fine Post-2015 changes.
Carbine was fine Post-2015 changes.
Revert ATAC to the 2014 stats prior to it's buff.
Revert RFP and all its variants to it's stats prior to the buff (Back in 2016 or w/e).
HVR is still kind of annoying but more negligible now, so keep the current version, with possible tweaks in the future.
Misery is fine.
Revert OCA to before it was buffed, literally no reason it should have been buffed in the first place.
Anubis is fine.
Oblivion is fine.
COBRA is really cool and I think it has an interesting place in the meta now.
Everything else I didn't list can stay as the live build.

This is just my two cents on what I think would be the most balanced you could get with all the weapons now, agree to agree or disagree to disagree.

What do you want done about shotguns explain. Because it looks like "Make every gun i like powerful and every gun i dislike weak" Edited August 11, 2018 by 23k

[Nessie 81]

Why not temporary disable all weapons except the standard free guns and slowly balance each one from here? It's kinda stupid trying to balance a category of weapons when there are a tons of weapons. You change a thing and half the guns get OP and the other half gets a shit.

[indi 175]

10 hours ago, Nessie said:

Why not temporary disable all weapons except the standard free guns and slowly balance each one from here? It's kinda stupid trying to balance a category of weapons when there are a tons of weapons. You change a thing and half the guns get OP and the other half gets a shit.

This was my biggest issue with G1 adding numerous weapons to ARMAS, they didn't seem to care about how it was going to effect the overall meta of the game let alone the difficulties that come with trying to balance an ever growing library of weapons to choose from.

[RespectThis 121]

Really should try looking back at 2012 and try and work on stuff from there. Adding all these tweaks to mods seems a bit extreme. A lot of the additions to them just seem unneeded. While i agree car spawner is annoying the spawn system in general is awful. Really find it concerning seeing all these people coming up with ideas for mods.

[Lucidy 21]

On 8/11/2018 at 1:42 AM, 23k said:

What do you want done about shotguns explain. Because it looks like "Make every gun i like powerful and every gun i dislike weak"

Shotguns were actually fine before. Only reason they didn't work before was because of Server Performance, not the guns themselves.

Very easy fix. Upgrade APB's servers to AWS. If you don't know what AWS is, figure it out.

Edit: I actually like the ATAC, so I don't know what you're going on about 'I only want weapons I like to be good.' I wouldn't want the gun to be reverted, because I like it right? Not the case. I just know to put my feelings aside for objective balancing, because most people cannot. Edited August 12, 2018 by Lucidy