Anti-cheat update

[VanilleKeks 737]

Sadly BE was essentially useless after only a short time in the previous attempt. Therefore I have taken matters into my own hands by only playing OPGL with Percs. This makes it so neither me or the cheaters have to actually aim in a firefight, which closes the gap.

[Darkzero3802 611]

On 5/31/2020 at 11:00 PM, MattScott said:

Hi all,

 

We're going to be making a change to the anti-cheat soon, and I want to walk the community through it instead of brushing it under the rug.

 

I'll start with why we are no longer sticking with Easy Anti-Cheat.

 

When we negotiated the deal with Kamu (Epic Games), the service was supposed to be client and server side. The critical reason for moving was their management tools and the server side piece which we didn't get with BattlEye. However, we also agreed to pay more to get that. The client side integration was fairly smooth, but the server side integration hit immediate snags. We spent months trying different configurations with the networks to get them talking properly, and when that didn't work, both sides dedicated programming support to fix the issues. When it still didn't work, we started exploring other ways to possibly fix it, but Kamu said based on our concurrency we wouldn't like get good results anyway. More recently I was finally contacted by their head of development with the news that they could no longer justify the resources to finish the server side integration. So then we attempted to work out a reduction in pricing. But we couldn't come to a compromise, so we have mutually decided to end the agreement. 

 

Clearly, we will need to keep evaluating server side solutions or build our own, because I have yet to see one that works well enough.

 

During my discussions with various providers, I also went back to BattlEye. Their solution has had some nice improvements since we left, so we're going to give that a try again.

 

Next I want to talk about the current cheating issues in APB.

 

While we do have some private cheats for EAC floating around, I will say that is still in the low single digit percentages for our entire population. However, we do have a problem right now with scripted triggerbots and aimbots. These are an entirely different category of cheat, because they are typically built with the hot key/mouse scripting systems. They are easy to spot, but they are easy to false positive. There are many legitimate uses for scripting systems, and players don't often realize they are enabled by default when they enter the game. 

 

With all of that in mind, once we switch to BattlEye we are going to start taking measures against the systems that these cheats are written in. This may be a little bumpy, and I guarantee some players will not read the forums and find themselves very frustrated. But I am taking this step to let all of you to know in advance, that you need to disable your macros and hot key / mouse scripting systems.

 

Anti-cheat will always a work in progress.

We will continue to iterate on this.

We need a level playing field for players to have fun.

 

Thanks,

Matt

Matt. APB has had a SERIOUS scripting, macro, bot problem well before LO took over the game and its never been resolved to this day. There is a hardline community of people in APB who feel using these makes them good and that ruining gameplay for others isnt a problem. Asking these people to play fair is like asking a brick wall to move, its just not going to happen.

 

Another problem is having the option to change the fire button, many people change it to the scroll wheel so tap fire guns can be fired easier and they dont need to click the mouse button over and over. This makes the gun fire faster then what many can achieve by clicking the mouse button over and over and it makes an unfair advantage for those who dont use it, and can at times be a false positive for a macro. An easy fix for this is making the fire button locked as left click. This makes a level playing field for everyone as most new players dont know about this as well as moves a false positive element and will make spotting cheaters easier for players and staff. This can be done now without needing the engine upgrade.

[CookiePuss 5378]

25 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

another problem is having the option to change the fire button, many people change it to the scroll wheel so tap fire guns can be fired easier and they dont need to click the mouse button over and over. This makes the gun fire faster then what many can achieve by clicking the mouse button over and over and it makes an unfair advantage for those who dont use it

there is zero chance you've ever tried this for yourself, and still feel that way

Im happy to let anyone who wants to bind fire to their scroll wheel do so... more ez kills for me, and I need em

[Valkyrja- 55]

2 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Matt. APB has had a SERIOUS scripting, macro, bot problem well before LO took over the game and its never been resolved to this day. There is a hardline community of people in APB who feel using these makes them good and that ruining gameplay for others isnt a problem. Asking these people to play fair is like asking a brick wall to move, its just not going to happen.

 

Another problem is having the option to change the fire button, many people change it to the scroll wheel so tap fire guns can be fired easier and they dont need to click the mouse button over and over. This makes the gun fire faster then what many can achieve by clicking the mouse button over and over and it makes an unfair advantage for those who dont use it, and can at times be a false positive for a macro. An easy fix for this is making the fire button locked as left click. This makes a level playing field for everyone as most new players dont know about this as well as moves a false positive element and will make spotting cheaters easier for players and staff. This can be done now without needing the engine upgrade.

Scroll wheel is terrrrrible when on any weapon. Also lock the fire button to left click will not solve anything. You do realize that you can take a programmable mouse(razer etc) program it to make any button like the left mouse? Like I shoot with my m5 button not left click. I like the feel of it better, but it acts as a lmb. 

 

Also if it is locked and people have certain disabilities with fingers and feel better doing mb5 instead of left click how would that work? A month long wait to support to say idk. Sorry locking the lmb isnt the answer. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Valkyrja-

[ShawLOL 50]

definitely a downgrade.

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

10 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Do the bans say "macro use" or is this just what you guys are saying?

 

As was already mentioned crosshairs are fine. I used to use playclaw, now use HudSight.

said 3rd party but thats what im using, i have no reason to lie im posting on an anonymous forum account lol not trying to get unbanned either idc. 

i was using the logitech LUA scripting to create a macro that i could easily edit. im sure thats what got me banned as other players reported the same exact thing the same week.

 

whats funny is that players using triggerbots arent banned still... its like EAC cant detect auto hot key since thats what most players are using.

 

and i know that crosshair overlays are not on their list of banable thing but i mentioned it cause that was the only other program i was using that is a 3rd party software. since then i dont use logitech software/peripherals and my mouse has no software neither does my keyboards.

Edited June 4, 2020 by safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs

[Cuve 244]

Not gonna lie... Not looking forward to this switch back to BE. Ever since APB ran EAC as their anti cheat I felt like everything was going pretty well.. Never really encountered "any" cheaters. Maybe once or twice. Shame to see it go.

[EVInezca 81]

It will be very intresting the first week how many people will shoot bad. Or wich Streamer or Player need all a break from apb xDDD.

I remember to good first week FF was released.

[CookiePuss 5378]

18 minutes ago, Eviltara said:

It will be very intresting the first week how many people will shoot bad. Or wich Streamer or Player need all a break from apb xDDD.

I remember to good first week FF was released.

oof how disappointed are you gonna be when almost nothing changes?

[Talla 84]

1 hour ago, Eviltara said:

It will be very intresting the first week how many people will shoot bad. Or wich Streamer or Player need all a break from apb xDDD.

I remember to good first week FF was released.

The first 2 months were bliss indeed.

[Fortune Runner 796]

21 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

there is zero chance you've ever tried this for yourself, and still feel that way

Im happy to let anyone who wants to bind fire to their scroll wheel do so... more ez kills for me, and I need em

I said before how I tested this on the old forums ,  just before the new forums.

 

CookiePuss is right the scroll wheel wont do anything good for you , and how it will actually make things worse for you.

We would get easy kills from anyone doing this.

[Mikiy 10]

Can't say im thrilled to hear about the move back to BE.

 

Last time i installed BE it was rather bitchy, complaining about some unsigned file that was installed.. file in question (going by my notes here as its a while ago) was likely

C:\Windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc80.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_8.0.50727.6229_none_d089f796442de10e\msvcr80.dll  sha-1 checksum:633a290738145fde18b93c8fe945b08ceffe3e3d

which is part of vc++2005, virustotal confirmed it as microsoft published but unsigned. Over installing a vc redistributable didn't work as it was newer then any redistributables i found, apb's own (in its redist folder) at that time was really old and before some security updates even. (This won't hopefully be an issue this time, as it seems apb has moved on to vc++2012 by now)

 

So i went through the trouble of mailing BE's tech support back then.. but that was completely useless as well.. they just suggested i ran some sfc check on my setup and so i did.. came back clean, and then they suggested over installing but all their links for grabbing the latest versions were 404 as support was dropped for that at that time, guess it was a template answer. Their last option was to go for a clean windows install,. which is a total unreasonable request tbh, as i don't install any junk anyway and reinstalling everything would have taken days and likely lead to the same result and just isn't worth it to satisfy one anti-cheats silly demands. Asking for further help to uninstall the file in question by identifying what software exactly it came with was flat out ignored.

 

After some time of researching into that on my own i found that the file it complained about came as part of the microsoft help viewer 2.1.21005 which came as i guessed with a older visual studio install.. luckily i didn't need that specific side-by-side installation of visual studio and components anymore at the time so uninstalling it took care of the problem. But what if that would have not been the case? Basically BE is enforcing some signed library policy there that in some cases can flag legitimate files. Guess BE isn't made for people that do more then just playing games on their PC.

 

TLDR;

BE' technical support sucks and it enforces some signed file restrictions that may even in some cases flag legit files that come from microsoft themself.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Mikiy

[Chinook 144]

On 6/2/2020 at 1:24 AM, SquirrelFace said:

Rust

---

Some dedicated players were repurchasing the game to try to get a short character.

I hate the fact that rust gives you a random sex/size char and you're stuck with it. It's a shitty design. If something is random, it should be random over and over again, not permanent like 2nd birth or something.

On 6/3/2020 at 5:54 AM, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

I was not aware that they would ban for macros

EULA / TOS

Read them.

It's all buried in there.

On 6/4/2020 at 3:11 AM, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

said 3rd party but thats what im using, i have no reason to lie im posting on an anonymous forum account lol not trying to get unbanned either idc. 

i was using the logitech LUA scripting to create a macro that i could easily edit. im sure thats what got me banned as other players reported the same exact thing the same week.

 

whats funny is that players using triggerbots arent banned still... its like EAC cant detect auto hot key since thats what most players are using.

 

and i know that crosshair overlays are not on their list of banable thing but i mentioned it cause that was the only other program i was using that is a 3rd party software. since then i dont use logitech software/peripherals and my mouse has no software neither does my keyboards.

For an anonymous individual who doesn't want to get unbanned, you're making a hell of a lot excuses.

 

---

 

What comes to the topic and OP, remains to be seen how effective and for how long the new-old (or is it old-new?) anti-cheat will be. Not holding my breath, as the game and it's ancient engine are pretty much leaking like a colander when it comes to staying afloat on top of what the few remaining cheat providers can bother to cobble together.

 

And why on earth would some debil spend actual money on private cheats or the precious time coding them for oneself at this time and age?

[Hexerin 1140]

On 6/3/2020 at 11:33 AM, Darkzero3802 said:

tl;dr - binding "fire weapon" to mouse scroll wheel allows firing SR115 (and its reskins) faster

It never ceases to amaze me that this blatantly false misinformation still continues to perpetuate.

 

Once upon a time, back in CBT/OBT (and IIRC extended a bit into release, but this was a decade ago so the specific timeframes are hazy without double-checking exact dates), this was possible as the SR115 had no fire interval (IIRC the stat wasn't quite zeroed, but close enough that it effectively made no difference). Eventually, G1/RG realized that the SR115 was obscenely overtuned (literally every stat on its data sheet was significantly higher/better back then), so they gave it a series of massive nerfs to bring it more in line.

 

One of these nerfs in particular is of note: It was given a proper fire interval. Due to this, you literally cannot just rebind "fire weapon" to the scroll wheel and gain infinite fire rate. If you attempt to fire faster than the interval (no matter your input method), the gun "jams", which prevents it from firing again for a brief moment. This jam will cost you at least one refire cycle, which at minimum increases your TTK from 0.75 to 0.9. That's a death sentence for a SR115 user, especially if you're trading shots at its upper range.

 

There's your history lesson for the day. Now stop spreading misinformation.

 

PS. The SR115 nowadays has a fire interval of 0.15. That translates to nine shots per second, or nine clicks per second. I'm a slow clicker (getting old sucks, btw), yet I can pull that semi-consistently with effort put in. Younger people, and/or those who live and breathe shooter games, would be able to consistently hit this rate without breaking a sweat.

[vsb 6171]

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

If you attempt to fire faster than the interval (no matter your input method), the gun "jams", which prevents it from firing again for a brief moment.

this is not correct at all, please don’t spread misinformation

 

there is no “jam” mechanic and trying to fire at the wrong time has no effect on when the carbine can be fired again

 

if you set up a macro (or use your finger because you’re a big owner) that clicks every .01s it will fire at max rof, regardless of the hundred times it tries to fire during the carbines fire interval

 

the only jamming mechanic is in your head - since no one’s brain can process “oh damn i clicked at .14s and not .15s, quick finger click again in .01s” in .01s, if you click too early you’ve doomed yourself to whatever your reaction time is

 

this goes for all semi automatic weapons in apb

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by 404
edit

[PoshDoll 93]

i miss fairfight. those were the times with ffbans.org and stuff.

[MrChan 337]

4 hours ago, PoshDoll said:

i miss fairfight. those were the times with ffbans.org and stuff.

It was completely shit and got exposed badly when PB was shut off and it took a fucking eon to ban even a blatant cheater using a free cheat (with a large side of malware).

 

FFbans was funny for drama sometimes, but ultimately the practice of broadcasting bans feeling so cathartic was reflective of utterly, utterly cancerous this community is.

Edited June 5, 2020 by MrChan

[Spy 152]

On 6/4/2020 at 2:11 AM, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

said 3rd party but thats what im using, i have no reason to lie im posting on an anonymous forum account lol not trying to get unbanned either idc.

All I read is that you don't have the balls to post crap like this with your main account.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, MrChan said:

It was completely shit and got exposed badly when PB was shut off and it took a fucking eon to ban even a blatant cheater using a free cheat (with a large side of malware).

FFbans was funny for drama sometimes, but ultimately the practice of broadcasting bans feeling so cathartic was reflective of utterly, utterly cancerous this community is.

I was just saying I miss the stats we had from FFbans.

 

 

[EVInezca 81]

FF was good i liked it, only that it was slow with ban was problem but i has trust in it, one day it will catch but it needed time. This have give me at legit player,  good feeling when hackers was rip me. And it was working i have see the ban list and some names was there so how i expect. 

 

But i have trust in lO that we handle it, i like the company i like the legit comunity and i love apb.

 

 

and i hate cheater...

Edited June 5, 2020 by Eviltara

[Spy 152]

On 6/1/2020 at 5:00 AM, MattScott said:

We're going to be making a change to the anti-cheat soon,

How soon? Pick one:

• Impatience guy soon: within a month
• Lazy guy soon: We'll see, no rush
• Revomag soon™: real soon but I hardly keep a promise
• Upgrade engine soon: after the engine upgrade

Seriously, it's getting out of hand. This needs a solution fast.

[Y2Venom 219]

14 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I was just saying I miss the stats we had from FFbans.

I agree 110% with you.

 

Which is weird

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, Y2Venom said:

I agree 110% with you.

 

Which is weird

I think we just became best friends.

[moxxichixx 148]

So Matt, does that mean we will have a other unban wave, to let people who got banned, a other chance?

[CookiePuss 5378]

31 minutes ago, moxxichixx said:

So Matt, does that mean we will have a other unban wave, to let people who got banned, a other chance?

As careful as LO is about bans, I doubt it.