Anti-cheat update

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

 

We're going to be making a change to the anti-cheat soon, and I want to walk the community through it instead of brushing it under the rug.

 

I'll start with why we are no longer sticking with Easy Anti-Cheat.

 

When we negotiated the deal with Kamu (Epic Games), the service was supposed to be client and server side. The critical reason for moving was their management tools and the server side piece which we didn't get with BattlEye. However, we also agreed to pay more to get that. The client side integration was fairly smooth, but the server side integration hit immediate snags. We spent months trying different configurations with the networks to get them talking properly, and when that didn't work, both sides dedicated programming support to fix the issues. When it still didn't work, we started exploring other ways to possibly fix it, but Kamu said based on our concurrency we wouldn't like get good results anyway. More recently I was finally contacted by their head of development with the news that they could no longer justify the resources to finish the server side integration. So then we attempted to work out a reduction in pricing. But we couldn't come to a compromise, so we have mutually decided to end the agreement. 

 

Clearly, we will need to keep evaluating server side solutions or build our own, because I have yet to see one that works well enough.

 

During my discussions with various providers, I also went back to BattlEye. Their solution has had some nice improvements since we left, so we're going to give that a try again.

 

Next I want to talk about the current cheating issues in APB.

 

While we do have some private cheats for EAC floating around, I will say that is still in the low single digit percentages for our entire population. However, we do have a problem right now with scripted triggerbots and aimbots. These are an entirely different category of cheat, because they are typically built with the hot key/mouse scripting systems. They are easy to spot, but they are easy to false positive. There are many legitimate uses for scripting systems, and players don't often realize they are enabled by default when they enter the game. 

 

With all of that in mind, once we switch to BattlEye we are going to start taking measures against the systems that these cheats are written in. This may be a little bumpy, and I guarantee some players will not read the forums and find themselves very frustrated. But I am taking this step to let all of you to know in advance, that you need to disable your macros and hot key / mouse scripting systems.

 

Anti-cheat will always a work in progress.

We will continue to iterate on this.

We need a level playing field for players to have fun.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[LilyRain 674]

Dear MattScott,

 

I am glad to see efforts towards making the game fair for everyone continue. Very informative, hopeful and honest update. I hope that APB will become macro-free soon.

 

I'd like to see numbers/figures between EAC & BattlEye that show added latency from checking clients/users if available as this may affect game-play, thanks in advance.

[MattScott 15242]

4 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

I'd like to see numbers/figures between EAC & BattlEye that show added latency from checking clients/users if available as this may affect game-play, thanks in advance.

I don't have exact stats, but I don't remember quite so much latency back when we were using BattlEye. I assume this is because EAC is still sending all the data needed for the server side system even though they cant use it.

[MonkaS 215]

oof you just set yourself back a lot since battleye is objectively worse compared to EAC

[Nanometic 265]

3 minutes ago, MonkaS said:

oof you just set yourself back a lot since battleye is objectively worse compared to EAC

Have to wait and see how these 'improvements' handle APB.

 

It sounds promising, i'm looking forward to see how it performs.

[SmilyFace 300]

Fu*k yeah Matt, like that.

Punch those cheaters in the face, kick them Out.

No macros, no triggerbots, no aimbots, learn to play the game, you piece of watermelon.

 

BE come here babe, uh yes.

[Snubnose 640]

move right there

keep switching through anticheats like underwear... cheat coders are fuming

[Dezire 107]

This seems like a good step in the right direction. I am however wondering how detecting mouse-specific program macros will work. As far as i know most major mouse brands these days have a program which usually contains a macro feature. Will it be detecting inputs or will we have to make sure that such programs (e.g. Logitech G HUB) are closed before we open the game to not get falsely flagged

[BrandonBranderson 672]

Cool, triggerbots seem to be one of the few remaining cheats that still seem to be present.  Hard to notice unless they slip up and shoot you while they're AFK.  Can't even remember the last time I've seen a speed hacker.  Looking forward to seeing how things have changed with BE since last time we used it.

[Senodus 49]

Well I hope the improvements to BE are substantial cuz last time we had it it was absolute garbage and right now with EAC there are barely any cheaters at all. Hope that doesn't chabge/becomes better, not worse. 

[swft 356]

Yikes... Good luck.

[Kittaa 18]

Does that mean using a mouse with multiple buttons, button 5 for example as a hot-key for grenades, would cause a ban?

 

I have a Logitech mouse, so would the Logitech Software be a red flag?

Edited June 1, 2020 by Kittaa

[BeastInTheBeauty 51]

But..
There's no cheaters in Apb..

[Aeronaut 647]

even as you mention that some players won't read the forums, the biggest takeaway that should somehow get more visiblity is:

But I am taking this step to let all of you to know in advance, that you need to disable your macros and hot key / mouse scripting systems.

 

might want to have an in-game pop up like the EULA/TOS message that happens everytime to patch the game that officially warns every player that logins in to disable macros/scripts/etc. should also have a more indepth message that states "yes, even logitech's G hub software is not recommended at this time" or whatever the parameters are.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Don't worry guys. We can try VAC next. Then maybe after that we can go back to Punkbuster. Then after that Vanguard.

[IronicTerror 28]

I really hope BattlEye has improved since last you tried it, we've never seen as few cheaters as after EAC was implemented tbh.

[vsb 6171]

as much as i like the commitment to transparency and keeping the game “cheat free” this ping pong between anticheats is a little weird to me, especially when the current option seems to be working decently

 

it also seems odd to change the anticheat when we’re kind of maybe weeks/months from the engine upgrade, wouldn’t the background improvements that i assume are part of that process help with server side anticheat integration?

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by 404
typo

[Pufty 113]

I noticed some comments saying EAC better than BE, but Matt in the same original posts has pointed out what and why they're going back to BE... In terms of pushing against macro use, it's quite a nice and stern move. Setting some ground rules in an anarchy game sounds silly, but hey... I would even start playing if that was introduced right this instant.

[Arcane 33]

Do you have any ETA for this?

[swft 356]

1 hour ago, Pufty said:

I noticed some comments saying EAC better than BE, but Matt in the same original posts has pointed out what and why they're going back to BE... In terms of pushing against macro use, it's quite a nice and stern move. Setting some ground rules in an anarchy game sounds silly, but hey... I would even start playing if that was introduced right this instant.

 

EAC can also detect and disallow macro software (namely, legit mouse software). Since I think you're missing the point, allow me to explain: LO ditched EAC because they couldn't afford the server-side anticheat costs since the playerbase is too small for it to be worthwhile. Going back to BE is the obvious move, but still a big downgrade, well, at least they finally decided to disallow macro software with this change. Saying that going back to BE is a good move because of macro and triggerbot detection is disingenuous.

 

Anyways, if BE is working about the same as it was before, we're in for a pretty bad ride if the server-side component isn't well implemented yet again. Oh, and, not to mention, running AHK x64 in admin mode used to bypass its detection, which is laughable at best.

[N66 97]

Does the current EAC use any degree of server side measures? if not, EAC client side only is not a choice? I'm saying this since I find a lot less cheaters since EAC was used and it'd be a shame to lose that.

 

On the other hand, I understand that it might be controversial to suddenly disallow all macros, but to be honest, I can't think of a macro someone needs in APB that has a legitimate use, so in my opinion it's a huge advantage if we get rid of all the macros

[vsb 6171]

6 minutes ago, N66 said:

On the other hand, I understand that it might be controversial to suddenly disallow all macros, but to be honest, I can't think of a macro someone needs in APB that has a legitimate use, so in my opinion it's a huge advantage if we get rid of all the macros

i guess it depends on how strict they are on macros/software - someone earlier mentioned rebinding keys, and if that’s something that won’t be allowed i can’t say i’ll be playing much apb

[Flaws 1033]

Whatever it takes to clean out the little remaining trash that manages to circumvent EAC and closet cheat, I'm on board.

[Mitne 724]

I knew something was off when playing certain players...

In my personal opinion - Both EAC and BattlEye are problematic solutions (in my opinion) which don't really tackle problem APB have.

As long as cheaters are simply able to integrate cheats into game, that long we will have problems.

 

And then this pathetic lowlives will still find solution to cheat system, there is always loose code.

[Esurient 17]

With BE + Old servers I was seeing around 1~8ms, these days its around 25~30ms with spikes.

 

Let's see if EAC is just a mess on the platform.