Why can't we have accurate weapons?

[RespectThis]

34 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Do you reaaally think that "it's been this way 9 years" means it shouldn't be changed? We get it, you hate change.

You really are dense aren't you? If you've ever truly read anything i've said you'd understand that changing how a gun functions mechanically so far into its life span is a horrible idea. Why is that? Because the gun has already been given an identity. Ntec designed to be a tap fire mid/longish range AR. Now has an extreme amount of bloom when playing the gun how it should be played? Hvr doing less damage when the crosshairs are further apart? Why? Just lower the damage and not change the core mechanics of the gun. Also in regards to the pmg its been fine. Everyone just complains about it now because all the other "op" weapons have been "justifiably" nerfed. When in reality the pmg isn't really that op. Annoying? Yes. Op? Far from it.

[Abduct / Devote]

The ONLY guns you should have mentioned was the Nano/Troublemaker. THOSE were problems. I agree powercreep is an issue in the game. But the ATAC??!??! WHAT.

[Resine]

34 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Might I suggest that you try to get better rather than relying on a weapon to carry you?

My main to get shit done weapon is ACES Rifle it has small magazine, slight recoil and annoying random shake mechanic, medicore time to kill, high STK count and you can't really sprint shot with it, on top of which it does bloom quickly so you need to control fire rate at all times and pretty much reload after each kill or mid kill if you do shot over the distance.

The only thing this gun has its initial accuracy that I found pleasing to play with. Does it seem to you like a weapon that can carry you?

 

Also, I don't mind having some bloom. I wouldn't like the idea of jumping N-tec sniping you from 50 meters away, I just ask for less of it. So when there is an opponent peaking quarter of its hitbox 15 meters away, I would still be able to land most of my shots with some CQC SMG weapon.

[heelruby]

43 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Powercreeped would have been like C-9

u know that's an oca right ?

[WorldDominator]

On 5/31/2020 at 9:15 PM, Flaws said:

And the fact that LO somehow think that the weapon balancing changes they've done so far have improved the game and not made the meta extremely stale, the game extremely boring and repulsive to even think about launching (because its literally nothing but JG, PMG, nades and car gameplay) would sound more like a joke to anyone who's actually aware of how the game is played and has decent+ skill in it

Couldn't agree more.

[BlatMan]

Weapons blooms after shooting.

 

Normal people: I'll wait for the bloom to recover so my next shot hits.

 

This thread; TOO MUCH RNG REEEEE!

[CookiePuss]

18 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

Weapons blooms after shooting.

 

Normal people: I'll wait for the bloom to recover so my next shot hits.

 

This thread; TOO MUCH RNG REEEEE!

Yaah, tapfire that ACES SMG.

[BlatMan]

It works well firing in bursts. You could also wait until you're close enough so accuracy doesn't matter, or use a weapon better suited for the range.

Edited June 1, 2020 by SquirrelFace

[RespectThis]

59 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

It works well firing in bursts. You could also wait until you're close enough so accuracy doesn't matter, or use a weapon better suited for the range.

To bad the biggest downside of the ACEs variants is the stk is extremely high.

[Noob_Guardian]

12 hours ago, heelruby said:

u know that's an oca right ?

i meant the C-2 "troublemaker", i get the numbers mixed up. my bad

 

Merged.

 

13 hours ago, Resine said:

My main to get shit done weapon is ACES Rifle it has small magazine, slight recoil and annoying random shake mechanic, medicore time to kill, high STK count and you can't really sprint shot with it, on top of which it does bloom quickly so you need to control fire rate at all times and pretty much reload after each kill or mid kill if you do shot over the distance.

The only thing this gun has its initial accuracy that I found pleasing to play with. Does it seem to you like a weapon that can carry you?

 

Also, I don't mind having some bloom. I wouldn't like the idea of jumping N-tec sniping you from 50 meters away, I just ask for less of it. So when there is an opponent peaking quarter of its hitbox 15 meters away, I would still be able to land most of my shots with some CQC SMG weapon.

The issue with that is then it becomes much more effective at range as well. Look at the one odin series smg which gains accuracy on fire. It goes from "maybe" a decent 15m kill, then just melts people at 30-40m. This isn't bad in the ODIN case, as it's got both a high ttk and high stk and doing so is balanced for it (and that one is my favorit odin smg). But with other smg's that would be much more of an issue, imagine making the accuracy of the PMG better (*throws up a little*). Making the OCA be even more accurate (After they already buffed its accuracy once with the TTK) to the suggested level, would cause a balance issue.

 

If it's that much of an issue, using an fbw or .45 would be a better option if pushing a corner, but most times, rushing a corner leaner is a death sentence to begin even using a rifle or pistol. Hence why you generally grenade corners, or go for a flank/corner where an enemy "isn't" and ambush whoever's doing the rotation there. It'd be honestly dumb if SMG's could easily and accurately kill someone who's got "5 inches" of body out of a corner while leaning.

 

Less bloom on NTEC would mean that it can kill you *faster* at 50m. Most guns are balanced by using the bloom and the recovery to inflate the ttk with the accuracy. As such reducing bloom, ALSO reduces said ttk, which is intentionally made to be an approximate length for certain distances. That could become an issue on a number of weapons, like the ntec, other weapons like the star, it may not be so much of one. But I don't believe that's a good idea.

 

13 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

The ONLY guns you should have mentioned was the Nano/Troublemaker. THOSE were problems. I agree powercreep is an issue in the game. But the ATAC??!??! WHAT.

Atac was nerfed within a month or so of it being released. I personally didn't think it was "too powerful" but it had been nerfed by a 1stk, im not sure of any other changes that happened to it.

 

 

 

[Abduct / Devote]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The issue with that is then it becomes much more effective at range as well. Look at the one odin series smg which gains accuracy on fire. It goes from "maybe" a decent 15m kill, then just melts people at 30-40m. This isn't bad in the ODIN case, as it's got both a high ttk and high stk and doing so is balanced for it (and that one is my favorit odin smg). But with other smg's that would be much more of an issue, imagine making the accuracy of the PMG better (*throws up a little*). Making the OCA be even more accurate (After they already buffed its accuracy once with the TTK) to the suggested level, would cause a balance issue.

 

If it's that much of an issue, using an fbw or .45 would be a better option if pushing a corner, but most times, rushing a corner leaner is a death sentence to begin even using a rifle or pistol. Hence why you generally grenade corners, or go for a flank/corner where an enemy "isn't" and ambush whoever's doing the rotation there. It'd be honestly dumb if SMG's could easily and accurately kill someone who's got "5 inches" of body out of a corner while leaning.

 

Less bloom on NTEC would mean that it can kill you *faster* at 50m. Most guns are balanced by using the bloom and the recovery to inflate the ttk with the accuracy. As such reducing bloom, ALSO reduces said ttk, which is intentionally made to be an approximate length for certain distances. That could become an issue on a number of weapons, like the ntec, other weapons like the star, it may not be so much of one. But I don't believe that's a good idea.

 

Atac was nerfed within a month or so of it being released. I personally didn't think it was "too powerful" but it had been nerfed by a 1stk, im not sure of any other changes that happened to it.

 

 

 

You missed why I asked that for ATAC. ATAC is it's own role in rifleman and a unique gun, it didn't powercreep anything since it was a new intro. 

[Noob_Guardian]

11 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

You missed why I asked that for ATAC. ATAC is it's own role in rifleman and a unique gun, it didn't powercreep anything since it was a new intro. 

I said weapons that were "too powerful" "versatile" or "powercreeped". I didnt just say powercreeped. Most new weapons G1 added were either A. Overpowered or B. Underpowered most weren't "balanced". I wasn't saying the ATAC necessarily was part of powercreep. Only that it had been nerfed after creation.

[vsb]

14 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Atac was nerfed within a month or so of it being released. I personally didn't think it was "too powerful" but it had been nerfed by a 1stk, im not sure of any other changes that happened to it.

the atac was not nerfed within a month of its release, in fact it received several buffs within a year afaik

[Noob_Guardian]

4 hours ago, 404 said:

the atac was not nerfed within a month of its release, in fact it received several buffs within a year afaik

They had changed the STK on the atac, i'm almost positive of that. I'm not aware of other changes they had done to the atac though, but that's likely because such changes flew under my radar.

 

Still, they buffed the atac several times? interesting...

[ReaperTheButcher]

Why there are so many threads recently that try to change the core game, guns are fine with the accuracy it forces you to watch the bloom of the weapon and manage as you see fit from whatever range it is.

Edited June 3, 2020 by ReaperTheButcher

[Uke]

On 5/31/2020 at 8:19 PM, Xnetexe said:

Almost every FPS/TPS is RNG reliant past the 1st shot. It's just more noticeable in APB because the higher TTKs.

Are we playing the same game? Most guns in APB are inaccurate even on the first shot. That's the problem.

6 hours ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

Why there are so many threads recently that try to change the core game, guns are fine with the accuracy it forces you to watch the bloom of the weapon and manage as you see fit from whatever range it is.

You're confusing bloom with base accuracy of the weapon.

 

 

What's the point for OCA, FBW or really almost any cqc/mid range gun having the (bad) accuracy that they do? There already is a damage drop off system in the game, the gun doesn't need to be inaccurate to not be a laser up to 100m. You could just tweak the actual range of the gun to keep it in it's place.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Uke

[Resine]

On 6/2/2020 at 3:13 AM, Noob_Guardian said:

i meant the C-2 "troublemaker", i get the numbers mixed up. my bad

 

Merged.

 

The issue with that is then it becomes much more effective at range as well. Look at the one odin series smg which gains accuracy on fire. It goes from "maybe" a decent 15m kill, then just melts people at 30-40m. This isn't bad in the ODIN case, as it's got both a high ttk and high stk and doing so is balanced for it (and that one is my favorit odin smg). But with other smg's that would be much more of an issue, imagine making the accuracy of the PMG better (*throws up a little*). Making the OCA be even more accurate (After they already buffed its accuracy once with the TTK) to the suggested level, would cause a balance issue.

And this is exactly why numbers are wrong in apb.

Let's use OCA example. Instead of gigantic crosshair and 30 meters drop off range you would have 15 meters and 2 times smaller crosshair. Your weapon  would be much more reliable in CQC and with strict drop off curve you would do just a thrid of initial damage over range. Which is much better for me personally than having full damage and praying for bullets to find their target.

 

[CookiePuss]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:13 PM, Noob_Guardian said:

then just melts people at 30-40m

The Valhalla guns are the worst SMGs in the game.

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by CookiePuss

[DouglasFalcon]

If bloom bothers you so much just play snipers, I've personally never had a problem with it lol

[Percocet]

because they like to nerf shit instead of just bringing crap guns up to par with guns that are viable, and then introduce some more crappier weapons that are crap so they can use those as a base to nerf some more viable weapons even more

[Noob_Guardian]

10 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

The Valhalla guns are the worst SMGs in the game.

 

Don't get me wrong, they literally are, but it's always fun to use them. The accuracy overtime one is the best one imo, and it's always fun to fire at people crossing the street and watching it get more accurate until they die lol. Even prefiring a corner then popping works with it which is hilarious. But yeah 14stk and .8ttk isn't very great for their accuracy.

 

10 hours ago, Resine said:

And this is exactly why numbers are wrong in apb.

Let's use OCA example. Instead of gigantic crosshair and 30 meters drop off range you would have 15 meters and 2 times smaller crosshair. Your weapon  would be much more reliable in CQC and with strict drop off curve you would do just a thrid of initial damage over range. Which is much better for me personally than having full damage and praying for bullets to find their target.

 

I mean, that's your opinion, which is fine, though I disagree. We really don't need smg's made more accurate to "combat corner camping". For their accuracy sub 15m they are fine as is. Making them that accurate would be worse off in many situations with cover, from corners, to crouched cover, because you just "fire at the tiny hitbox" and hitting extremely accurately at full auto. Taking out corner campers and playing cover right i get can be difficult (though i generally don't have issues with it), however cqc weapons shouldn't be reworked just to combat corners. There's a reason why you have grenades, and multiple ways into an objective, along with explosive weapons. If you're having issues try new tactics.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[ReaperTheButcher]

13 hours ago, Percocet said:

because they like to nerf shit instead of just bringing crap guns up to par with guns that are viable, and then introduce some more crappier weapons that are crap so they can use those as a base to nerf some more viable weapons even more

I agree, they should make none meta weapons more capable to stand on their own against the current meta like what they did with the COBR-A its a very viable weapon now.

 

Merged.

 

20 hours ago, Uke said:

Are we playing the same game? Most guns in APB are inaccurate even on the first shot. That's the problem.

You're confusing bloom with base accuracy of the weapon.

 

 

What's the point for OCA, FBW or really almost any cqc/mid range gun having the (bad) accuracy that they do? There already is a damage drop off system in the game, the gun doesn't need to be inaccurate to not be a laser up to 100m. You could just tweak the actual range of the gun to keep it in it's place.

I dont think you can argue with a guy that spent 7120 SOILD hours playing baylan.

[Uke]

2 hours ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

I dont think you can argue with a guy that spent 7120 SOILD hours playing baylan.

I don't think you can argue with facts. Playing APB often feels like playing an MMORPG, maybe my gun will hit, maybe not. Having random things affect wherever you hit somebody or not, is not why people play fps games.

 

Half the people in this thread doesn't even seem understand the difference between gun accuracy and bloom and yet they're trying to dictate how guns should be balanced? Ugh.

I was wondering why so many people are against having accurate weapons in game but I guess you guys don't even understand what OP meant.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Uke

[CookiePuss]

9 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Don't get me wrong, they literally are, but it's always fun to use them.

I have a friend who also feels that way.

I think I'd be too frustrated.

[ReaperTheButcher]

 

1 hour ago, Uke said:

I don't think you can argue with facts. Playing APB often feels like playing an MMORPG, maybe my gun will hit, maybe not. Having random things affect wherever you hit somebody or not, is not why people play fps games.

 

Half the people in this thread doesn't even seem understand the difference between gun accuracy and bloom and yet they're trying to dictate how guns should be balanced? Ugh.

I was wondering why so many people are against having accurate weapons in game but I guess you guys don't even understand what OP meant.

This is simple, there is base accuracy while standing, base accuracy while moving and accuracy degradation while shooting a gun which is called bloom, an FBW or anything that is not a rifle of any sort shouldnt be pinpoint accurate since this is the unique nature of the game, there are no head shots of any sort in this game that require weapons to be pinpoint everything revolves around how much body shots you can land no matter where.
This is a basic mechanic of the game mind you.

Edited June 4, 2020 by ReaperTheButcher