vsb

oh, that makes three actually still not good :^)

i know at least two spct who play regularly now, they aren't actually good but that's beside the point

fair enough, altho its fairly easy to extrapolate how stat changes would affect weapons there's no way to be certain until they're live in most games every weapon can kill with a headshot the same points about LoS and team coordination can be made about any hitscan weapon in apb, the game is inherently designed to enhance the effects of team coordination i can't help but question how familiar you are with the hvr if you think it lacks versatility, it's received several nerfs precisely because its too versatile and yet it remains so the opgl is already most valuable when paired with a teammate as unlike the hvr you can't really hold your big burst damage back to be used at any time, so aggressive plays are much riskier i'm unclear on how your suggested changes would re-establish the opgl's (already clearly defined) place, as they reduce its effectiveness at area denial and make it almost incapable of killing enemies on its own - the opgl already has the longest ttk of any weapon in apb iirc, and any damage nerf at all will double it from 5s to 10s additionally this new opgl would not have its own place at all, its almost guaranteed to land somewhere equivalent with the current eol weapons depending on final numbers, leaving its niche all the more muddled quantity is not enough to make up the difference as we can already see with the eol weapons, even offering players 4-8x more grenades (which are slightly better than their normal counterparts) is not enough of an offset for a poorly performing primary weapon if the opgl absolutely has to be nerfed imo there are two ways to go about it without crippling the gun option 1 is to leave it mostly untouched, only decreasing the damage radius - this forces users to be more accurate and precise without compromising the threat of a properly placed grenade, and also removes a lot of versatility because relying on excess splash damage to quickswitch will be much more difficult option 2 is to slightly reduce damage, i would say no lower than 800, and leave the current radii alone - this allows the opgl to keep its current area denial niche and almost all of its versatility, but without the possibility of a one hit kill

op is suggesting that rocket launchers are removed as primary weapons, so it would be taken away

i suppose that's a good point with the opgl-cd being locked behind the cop role can you better define what "a bit" is? 50? 100? 150? i think anything over 200 damage is more than "a bit", and anything below 750-850 will only continue to promote an aggressive playstyle a 20% hard damage nerf would bring the opgl down to 504 hard damage every 5s at minimum, for comparison here are some other weapons' hard damage output within the same 5s: alig - 2006 swarm - 1571 dmr - 648 dmr av - 1080 issr-b - 874 obeya - 572 ntec - 592 (full auto spray) star - 617 (full auto spray) atac - 528 deep impact - 1108 kickback - 1179 hammer - 731 percussion grenades - 547 low yield grenades - 376 frag grenades - 567 concussion grenades - 1108 the opgl comes in nearly rock bottom even against guns that aren't considered av, with only loyos beating it out for worst hard damage the argument could be made that the opgl is not constrained by range or LoS, but i think that's more than negated by the opgl being exponentially harder to use on moving targets (which most vehicles are) i disagree that concs should be more accessible, i think locking items behind weapon roles is a good mix of playtime progression and skill based progression you're all over the place here you want the opgl not to be a "directly offensive" weapon, but reducing damage forces users to push aggressively for every kill instead of sitting back and directing enemy movements you also bring up the hvr as the ideal example of a support weapon but there's two problems: the hvr isn't a support weapon, its arguably (pmg still broken) been the best gun in apb for years at this point, viable from 0-100m regardless of solo play or group composition - its good at being a support weapon because its good at everything the hvr is so powerful because of its massive burst damage, allowing a single shot to take any player out of the fight for several seconds whether it killed them or not these are both things that you're suggesting to nerf on the opgl, so i'm really not sure where you're going with this comparison but if the opgl grenades are less powerful than the grenades on your belt they're worthless, you would "support" your team more by running normal grenades and a more effective primary the eol series are objectively not well balanced, and so they should not be used to balance other weapons i remain unconvinced because your reasoning seems flawed

unit games purchased the rights to the apb brand, while little orbit retains developmental and creative control over apb reloaded specifically there are no engine-related plans beyond 3.5 at this point afaik, and “apb 2.1” is just is just an internal build number not literally “apb 2” iirc the emp grenade was always slated to come with the new contacts

i'll repeat that many weapons make locations borderline untakeable and that isn't an issue to be solved via weapon balance - if an objective is too open so as to be impossible to take you add more cover, you don't nerf snipers assuming you're just suggesting opgl changes, since any nerfs to the already underpowered eol weapons would be silly: a 60% soft damage nerf feels very overboard (without even taking into account flak jacket), percussion grenades have low damage because they are essentially instant-use whereas the opgl has a 5s fuse timer the opgl only does 500 stamina damage so any "undue edge" for enforcers would be fairly minimal, not to mention enforcers have their own ltl version of the opgl anyway a hard damage nerf goes against pushing explosives into a support and/or av role these stat changes seem contrary to your desire to make the opgl less offensive, as reduced damage resulting in an impossibly long ttk will force users to push more than ever and quickswitch for almost every kill - a higher radius allowing users to ping enemies for that initial damage burst more reliably only doubles down lack of damage will also hamper the opgl as an area denial support weapon - enemies are much less likely to be afraid of sustaining 400 damage, especially if they already have an environmental advantage over the other approaching members of your team the hard damage nerf probably wouldn't affect much in the end since the opgl already requires at least 10s (2 shots) to destroy most, if not all, vehicles but at that point it seems rather pointless ultimately i think your proposed opgl would end up worse than all of the eol series, which are not known for being particularly well balanced themselves - why waste a primary weapon slot for a gun that is outperformed by the grenades that every player already carries?

SPCT doesn’t ban people, and i’d wager they still get harassed ingame because there are numbnuts who don’t understand they just test stuff

probably to avoid the ingame or irl harassment that i think we both know is all too common amongst the apb community

explosives are already a niche weapon class, even more so now that they can't resupply via ammo box new players not being good with the tools they have available is one thing, but actively removing those tools from a majority of the game will only broaden the experience/contribution gap between players who already understand these weapons after owning them for years and players who have to figure it out one use per every five missions there are certain locations that many weapons make borderline untakeable, that's a map balance issue not a weapon balance issue rocket launchers excelling at single point area denial seems pretty support to me, they're already much more of a deterrent than a directly offensive weapon

seems like it would be a little too niche to the point where they aren't worth picking up aside from opp potentially delivering vehicles while your team is off chasing down an osmaw pickup, unlimited delivery vehicle respawns and limited osmaw uses mean you'll likely need to fall back to other av weapons even with a team of four it sounds nice in theory to allow new players to contribute with explosives, but in practice i feel all this mechanic will lead to is inexperienced players wasting mission time picking up single-use consumables and then proceeding to waste those pick ups anyway because they don't have the necessary skills to effectively use them explosives are already slightly underpowered so i disagree that nerfs are necessary, aside from the volcano being reworked to only fire one rocket at a time

why not simply bring the 0slot version unlocks closer to the same rank as a majority of the other f2p weapons?

im not really trying to defend either one tbh, imo the only acceptable "wallhack" mechanic is tagger and any others should be reworked to be in line with that my only issue is that these items are balanced around tags showing through walls, and with that removed they'll likely join the large pile of stuff that no one bothers to ever use again - tagger is useful more because it indicates a damaged enemy than for any actual locational information, and neither spotter nor flare gun are really intended to have a damage component

flare gun has limited ammo, limited range, enemies know they are tagged, it replaces your secondary, and using it also reveals your own location even if only temporarily spotter might require slightly more brainpower since you actually need LoS to tag people, but aside from a 45s cooldown (which imo is irrelevant when spotter is used correctly and causes enemy teams to wipe, respawn, and return) it has almost no tradeoffs

considering apb has proven how unsuccessful it is over the years, are drastic changes really the enemy?

i don’t think the shaw is terrible, or even underpowered tbh it only seems like it because g1 got greedy and released a $700 shaw 2.0

it has trouble actually marking people on radar sometimes, but if you happen to spawn within its radius you’re marked on radar until you respawn

i find its usually slightly slower, altho that's probably just because whenever i do it im also abusing cover to corner pop

no way to get rid of them without redeeming them saddle up, cowboy

yeah us veterans with ten thousand hours obviously know better but i don't this is a good "excuse" when it comes to new players just completing the initial tutorial - if they aren't still mislead by the flat out incorrect ingame stat bars, i'd wager most end up either picking a weapon they recognize from being killed a lot by or just snagging the permanent version of whatever weapon they've enjoyed renting the most

the issrb still has an 83m (90m standard minus 7m from sniper silencer) dropoff range, and if you fire it in quick bursts of 2 (which you should be doing anyway due to bloom) its perfectly capable of easy corner peaking the dmr av is a decent alternative but it lacks the mobility and lower ttk that allow the issrb to remain viable at closer ranges

perhaps we have different definitions of “steamrolling” but if a team is being ground into dust so badly, instead of hoping for a lucky bounty situation shouldn’t the optimal solution be ending the mission as soon as possible so that both parties can get more equal opp?

again, that's not how the threat system works

that's not really how the threat system works, so probably very hard

ah god we did it anyways n5/p5 was not solely based on current mission performance and the debatable "balancing" that occurs when one team is dominating isn't worth the frustration of dealing with n5/p5 while not dominating, or even while being dominated also there's absolutely no balance involved when a random uninvolved bounty interferes with your mission