Kewlin

Yes, I want it so bad. ARMAS or Joker Store, I don't care, I want it. (To be clear, preferably a 4-slot obviously.)

You just spent two paragraphs to explain exactly what I said, thanks. I was saying that there is no issue with CA3 gameplay, so I don't see a reason to change it to 2s and 80hp/s, not that default regen shouldn't be changed, albeit, I think default regen should be changed to something more like CA2. Changing default regen to 2s and 80hp/s slows down gameplay for no apparent reason, as that's slower than current CA3, and I still think the concept of CA as a choice is good, and that you should be able to choose faster regen start and slower regen as opposed to Flak, Kev, or Fragile. Hence my suggestion of a default delay between 4 and 6 seconds. I'd say a difference common difference of 25% TTK increase is pretty fucking profound, lol. As I've said before, and will probably say again, Kevlar basically doesn't belong in APB, and as such will always work better in the game when its effects are smaller than large. Not only is this because APB should stay a relatively fast paced game, and Kev fucks that up, but because it unnecessarily fucks with guns differently. A good example of this is that your proposed version of Kev 2 makes the .45 a drastically better counter-weapon than the FBW, with the FBW getting a 15% more increased TTK than the .45. The reality of the way increased health or damage resistance works is just that it is an unreliable change and as such is, quite honestly, bad for gameplay. Even take the fact that the OCA and PMG have a 163% and 175% TTK on your Kev3 respectively, the fact that it so arbitrarily effects these two guns to such a large extent, which both should be just as valid in this circumstance, is absurd. Kev 3 is just too much of a wildcard and its effects should be kept to the same magnitude they currently are, and it's downsides should be fixed and reduced instead of increasing its upsides.

I suppose you're correct about the 0.4s delay vs 17.5hp/s thing, still, I don't think one is worse than the other, so I'd rather stay with what we currently have and doesn't have any issues. I don't find current matches based around CA3 to be inherently broken, so I don't see what about it needs fixing TBH. For future reference, in case you didn't figure it out, if 'x' is the percent damage reduction the "effective health bonus percent" is x / (1 - x). Note that with your numbers Kev3 still has effectively 49% bonus health and 49% more healing per second. Some examples of the effects of this, combined with your proposed default regen, for perspective are: Be safe from an HVR shot in 3.74s. Effectively regen 1000hp (including damage reduction as "bonus HP") in 8.375s. This is already somewhat the case, but large damage reduction (or health bonuses) on average, extremely random effects on enemy guns, which is an undesirable. Basically the TTK increase of Kev3 on most guns would range roughly from 50% to 75%, and that's a deviation of roughly 12.5% TTK increase. On top of a 62.5% TTK increase being ridiculous, such a large deviation adds a bizarre element of game knowledge required in choosing a gun that is most effective against a particular level of Kevlar based on how it arbitrarily effects the TTK of a gun. Some examples of TTK increase for Kev3 include: 0% on HVR. 50% on Scout. 50% on ACES SMG. 60% on N-TEC 5. 76% on Ursus. 50% on ALIG. 66.7% on N-ISSR-B. 75% on PMG. 60% on FBW. 50% on .45 AP. Here's a list of the TTK increases on the same guns with Kev2, to give a rough idea: 0% on HVR. 50% on Scout. 28% on ACES SMG. 20% on N-TEC 5. 51% on Ursus. 50% on ALIG. 33% on the N-ISSR-B 50% on PMG. 40% on the FBW 25% on .45 AP. Also, I still really don't get the need to reverse CA.

Yes, but if you make CA3 default then you get into essentially mixing mods, and it becomes. . . awkward. . . Also, you're suggestion for base regen to be 2s delay with 80hp/s is insane, that would have extreme and unpredictable effects on overdamage requirements because an additional 20hp/s is worth WELL more than an additional 0.4s on your healing delay TBH. Also, the reason that damage reduction is better than more health is that you then regen faster. Fall damage I can see keeping the same, but keeping nade damage would make Kevlar honestly useless because you already have harder time fighting nades because you can't dodge them as easily, plus. . . it's not an issue normally that you still have increased health versus nades. . . so. . . why would it suddenly be worse with damage reduction? (Also, you can't just convert from 30% bonus health straight to 30% damage reduction, 30% damage reduction is more equivalent to 43% extra health, you'd want more like 23% damage reduction.) If it were up to me I'd test decreasing the base recovery delay by 2-4 seconds and then reducing the positive effects of CA 1-3 to even off to effectively the same rates on CA3, making a table something like this: Health Regen Rates: Default, no mod: 250 HP/second (1000 HP/4 seconds, 100% regen rate) Clotting Agent I: 142.8 HP/second (1000 HP/7 seconds, 57% regen rate) Clotting Agent II: 100 HP/second (1000 HP/10 seconds, 40% regen rate) Clotting Agent III: 62.5 HP/second (1000 HP/16 seconds, 25% regen rate) Health Regen Delays: Default, no mod: 5 seconds Clotting Agent I: 4 seconds Clotting Agent II: 3.5 seconds Clotting Agent III: 1.6 seconds Health Regen Total Times (from roughly 0 HP): Default, no mod: 9 seconds Clotting Agent I: 11 seconds Clotting Agent II: 13.5 seconds Clotting Agent III: 17.6 seconds (Credit to Talla on the old forums for the basis of my numbers: https://forums-old.gamersfirst.com/topic/401054-game-balance-discussion-clotting-agent/ , basic premise of this idea courtesy of a discussion with Tobii.)

You know some G-King would do it.

LO, take all of my fucking money.

No matter what, don't make CA3 the default, that just fucks everything up totally. Sure. . . you could make CA2 default. . . but that kinda' messes with every mod pretty fucking bad. Instead of changing CA or default regen, we could just slightly buff Fragile's movement speed, change Kevlar's health increase to damage reduction, and make Flak Jacket slightly more effective. . . Though don't expect major changes with Kevlar, because Kevlar is basically just inherently contrary to the game.

i would really like the hazardous to have a straight mag, but that’s def more work than necessary, but it looks so nice Was more talking about the silencer (and possibly stock.) I agree that a straight mag would, yeah, be sick, but not really make sense for them to do.

I've been proposing a silenced M-1922 for ages, so I'm all-in on this idea. Like VSB said, the normal silencer might be overkill, but anything to reduce recoil, as well as a sexy silenced thompson mesh:

There's a dude who made a program to move the camera on 3.5 client rather recently, so this is just somebody using that alongside changing the map used by the login screen menu. Judging by what I know, which is probably at least 95% of what's relevant to know on this subject, this is almost certainly going to be the patch that was on OTW2 on august 25th. That should have been mentioned, and people should know that the login screen doesn't necessarily work the same way as in-game, but we don't live in a perfect world, do we. Unrelated, and I know I've asked you this before I think, but is there any chance you're going to look into reverting some of the texture changes made in the current 3.5 version of APB?

. . . and here we get to the eternal question. . . why not just use a .45 AP? (or FBW. . . or RFP. . . in fact the RFP is almost objectively better than the Thunder on paper.)

I sorta' agree, but at the same time. . . I've seen price mins and caps really fuck with economies TBH, not to mention people use the MP to exchange money. Granted, if this was applied just to mods, and not to clothing, cars, or anything else, then I don't think it wouldn't hurt. *EDIT* They could also just put a warning instead.

Lol, welcome to APB, now you know to sort things. Commas would be nice, as would defaultly sorting by low-high, but honestly this was your fault. I'm assuming you won't make that mistake again though. But uhh, no, putting things on the MP isn't illegal.

I think I agree with most of your sentiments, and your suggestions are pretty good. Seeing as one of the biggest complaints about missions though is lack of variety, why not add these all as final stages instead of doing blanket replacements? That way we'd have. . . For VIP: Classic VIP Dual VIP VIP Escort For item hold: Item Hold Vehicle Hold Item Delivery For cap points: Classic King of the Hill Rotating King of the Hill Three Cap Point Item Three Cap Point APB has like five millions missions and only a few final stages, I see no reason you couldn't change the final stages of some missions to add these in. I'd still like to see the old ones kept though personally, 'cause I think the asymmetrical gameplay can be really fun in VIP, and have had lots of Item Hold, KotH, and 3CP matches play out like they were supposed to and be really fun. As an addition, I'm kinda' sad that my favorite final stage was kinda' removed from the game. Back before Delivery was changed to holding items instead of just delivering, when you just had to deliver items, My, Gramma, how Young you Look used to be a hybrid of Item Delivery and Kills, and I feel like that should be brought back in some form. I think that Moving Target, Delivery, Bombing/Bomb Disposal, etc., could play out really well combined with Deathmatch or Take Over Deathmatch, though obviously you'd put the kill numbers higher than normal so that you'd have to pay attention to the main objective and lives / kills.

I agree with your sentiment, but I'm not sure your solution is a fantastic fix, as having mods effect different classes of weapons quickly could easily make the game feel super complicated. That said, I think this might not be a bad thing to look into after the game's switched over to UE 3.5.

Agreed.

How about we don't make the Whisper useless and say we didn't. Thanks.

First off, as I've said before, (I think,) the issue with Kev is not primarily its upside. I wouldn't mind a switch to damage resistance instead of health bonus, but it doesn't need more. Second, Explosives are already probably the best counter to Kev besides the HVR, why would you make that potentially more extreme? Not being able to dodge them well is bad enough. (Granted, I know if you can run at full speed you'll be able to dodge them a little better than on live, but OPGL and nade spam will DEFINITELY be hard to dodge still.)

While I don't really hate your core concept, your damage resistance numbers are absolutely way too high.

So the N-TEC has a faster TTK, which doesn't apply when tap or burst fired, and the STAR is decidedly better in full-auto than the N-TEC, so that's not helpful. It may have SLIGHTLY better bloom recovery when tap or burst fired, but it really is slight if you compare them side by side. Estimating the tap-fire speed of the STAR at ~256bpm and the N-TEC at 280, that'd give an effective TTK of 1.17 for the STAR and 1.07 for the N-TEC, which is a real difference, I will admit, but not a deal-breaker. I'm not considering burst firing because comparing burst and tap firing is difficult, and the STAR really is best tap fired. The accuracy is basically a moot point IMO. A stock STAR has 9cm of spread at 10m in MM, and given that we now know the hitbox of a character is 68cm wide, we can conclude that at rest a stock STAR can theoretically get a guaranteed hit out to about 75m. The stock N-TEC has 8.4cm of spread in MM, giving it theoretical guaranteed shots out to 80m, not a huge difference TBH. With HS3, the STAR and N-TEC have 4.8 and 6.3cm of spread at 10m, giving them 48 and 63cm of spread at 100m, both of which are theoretical guaranteed hits with decent aim. So is it an upside that the N-TEC has more accuracy? Yes, but it certainly isn't enough to write-off the STAR when you consider that they're both accurate far past where they're really effective, especially when you consider the STAR has better run, sprint, and jump modifiers, compounded with the fact that the STAR has better base accuracy (not to mention crouch accuracy, BTW.) So. . . yeah, can we just leave it at the N-TEC being better at range and the STAR being better closer? 'Cause I'm 99% certain that's the case, and to me that makes the STAR just as good of a gun as the N-TEC, just with a slightly different range. I'd be happy to hear another response, but I'll probably refrain from continuing considering this is very much off-topic at this point. Both CookyPuss and I both use the gun a lot and have no issue with its recoil hip-fired. From my experience it basically functions just like an OCA from the hip, but I also almost never have issues with recoil in APB.

I was about to post a joke about "needs," seeming as you don't have to write these responses, but then I remembered the last time I got a warning and my post removed about a particular touchy subject.

The STAR got its accuracy changed in 2015 with the overall balance pass, as well as in 2014, and it got its range upped in 2013. More importantly though, the N-TEC got nerfed in 2015.

In my opinion, the NTEC is used more 1. because it used to be better, so it will generally be perceived as better, 2. it's better at range than the STAR, can often fudge CQC a decent percentage of the time, so being more reliable at closer ranges is often not seen as a real advantage. Plus, that's simply not true, people do not always use things based on reality as much as perceived meta, take the N-ISSR-B as an example, which is potentially hands-down the best gun in the game, but you rarely see. And it's not solely because it's an ARMAS gun, because people definitely use ARMAS guns a lot, albeit not as much in the current meta as previous ones. The N-ISSR-B simply wasn't good on release or the first time it was buffed, so nobody uses it because they all still think it's bad. Similarly, nobody uses the Manic despite it being, quite honestly, probably the best SMG. Now I know, I know, the same exact principles don't apply the the STAR because everyone has a STAR, but still. . . how many people have really looked at it more recently with a critical eye? Virtually every vet who swears by the N-TEC has been maining it since before the STAR became good, and the first thing every new player does is ask what gun they should change to because of the perception that the starting gun must not be good. I'm curious, without looking up stats or going in game, can you tell me what makes the STAR worse than the N-TEC? What about with a little research? I honestly can't find anything that makes the N-TEC objectively better in practice except maybe the fact that it works better with more mods. But I digress, that is all just to say that things can be more complicated than they may seem, and just because someone, or even many people, say there's a problem, doesn't mean there is.

CA III and II are both balanced and fine. Fragile is a good mod. Flak Jacket is extremely good, especially when paired with medspray. Kevlar II is fine, and III isn't terrible TBH. You could potentially reduce its downside but you can't increase its upside without breaking the game. I think at its core Kevlar doesn't entirely work with APB though. How about we don't touch things that are already balanced fine. However, if you're going to touch green character mods, please buff the other mods instead of nerfing CA. People just don't realize that CA is a tradeoff because they're so used to using it all the time. I especially believe CA III is overrated, and think II is probably a better mod, but I use III because I like the playstyle it encourages, and would probably continue to use it even if they doubled the healing time over again. First off, the NTEC isn't better than the STAR, second, the STAR is the starter gun because it's the best combination of being EXTREMELY easy, and extremely versatile. The NTEC is not as easy of a gun for beginners as the STAR is. And this is why I hope more than anything honestly, at this point, that LO just doesn't listen to the community. How hard is it to get a few thousand dollars and buy CA III? Not hard. Not to mention, decreasing throw range would probably be WORSE than decreasing grenade count TBH. As I've said before, along the same lines as what Brian says, the best change they could do to Kev is making it decrease acceleration instead of speed, that way it would only affect you in combat, as I personally find that the biggest issue with Kev is how much more reliant you are on cars to get from point A to point B. While I agree with you that consumables should just be turned into yellow mods. . . in what world is mobile cover useless? And I do agree, yes, the best way to fix green mods quite possibly is, in fact, fixing consumables to become yellow mods.

How about we don't need Diamond threat.