Rework the OSCAR

[mynd 120]

I don't care for the design and playstyles of the Oscar and Carbine; they're my least favorite guns to play against.  There's definitely a strong negative stigma that's been perpetuated over the years due to the types of players that used to use them so heavily as well.

[claude 223]

25 minutes ago, Nanometic said:

Thats a matter of opinion, I find the Oscar easier to use than the carbine, fair point with always being able to purchase it since without spending real money you need to be 195+ to get it without JTs

 

Correct, except we're comparing carbine and oscar, two gun which are very similar and in the same role.

 

The TTK is about .1(?) of a difference? Most people wont hit minimum TTK with semi auto weapons since they're semi-automatic, you may get close but unlikely to consistently hit it bang on. Also you're trading .1~ extra second of a TTK for a third less of effort in terms of clicking and aiming, better accuracy, better range and just an overall easier experience.

 

Again ease of use is subjective, I find the oscar considerably easier to use.

Except the oscar takes a tiny bit more skill than carbine. They're both spammable, but he carbine is just easy.

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

7 hours ago, ɱɑƫƫʂϗᎧɨɨ™ said:

Just don't spam the RMB too much otherwise it will jam then you might as well just give up using it in that remark, But overall very simple gun to use once gotten the hang of.

i dont think he was looking for advice on how to use the oscar....

 

6 hours ago, MartisLTU said:

Yeah .. seems i mixed up little bit (sorry and thanks), but still it stands clear that semi weapons have way slower fire rate compare to full-auto. And in APB semi weapons ussers can shoot as fast as full auto .. it bugs me tbh.

just a footnote to all what people already said about the diference between auto and semi auto:

 

both semi autos, bumpstock on the left one.

 

also, more bumpstock

 

 

 

2 hours ago, VickyFox said:

Personally if I could wave a magic wand and change the guns inventory classifications, I'd have Assault Rifles and Rifles changed into: Automatic Rifles, Semi Auto Rifles and Marksman Rifles.

I Just cannot understand why some carbines that shoot faster than fully automatic rifles were counting towards Markman role when you don't use Marksmanship!

Sorry for that tangent, It was always a anomaly that was a little bit of a pet peeve of mine.

 

Back on topic, It does beg the question of where's the OCSAR's place is meant to be in APB when it hasn't got many flaws.

The Ntec is a good all-rounder but It's range and accuracy are reasonable, With the OCSAR it just doesn't feel quite right without a balanced level of weaknesses.

 

For a larger rifle with a longer barrel, one would of thought it would be medium to long range but yet it still a bit too comfortable in close range with hipfiring.

 

1) can i add "carabines" to the classifications? and no, i dont mean it as in "SR-15 carabine" sense, i mean it in the "rifle, but shorter than a rifle so you can use it in more short range situations" sense. i do feel like guns like the ATAC and the RAPTOR doesnt really fit next to the STAR and the NTEC and could use their own classification "between rifle and SMG", thus, carabine.

 

2) i *think* the idea of calling the oscar/SR15 a "marksman rifle" comes from the idea that, in a high mobility team where everybody is using PMG, OCA and shotguns, a player with a SR-15/OSCAR works as a high movility "marksman" (in the sense that, he has longer range and accuracy) for that team (if they aremoving toghether)

 

2 hours ago, Nanometic said:

There is no point to use a carbine when the oscar exists, change my mind.

i like SIG guns ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Shui 225]

4 hours ago, TheKeanuReeves said:

-Perfect accuracy on long range, hipfire/marksman.
-No accuracy loss while shooting fast.
-Good range to take down enemies in long distance fights.
-High mobility, you can move fast while shooting.

IMO one of the most OP weapons in the game. I literally has no negative things.

Ye, and I bet you wont kill me a single time with it while I play with Snub only.

[ZoriaDunne 327]

19 minutes ago, Halelulia said:

Ye, and I bet you wont kill me a single time with it while I play with Snub only.

Ok?

[TacticallyRed 49]

34 minutes ago, Halelulia said:

Ye, and I bet you wont kill me a single time with it while I play with Snub only.

This isnt even about you.

 

No one's said anything about you. What does this thread have anything to do with one player and you using a snub?

[porcupine_omg 115]

Another gun that silvers want to ruin

[zyde 34]

5 hours ago, TacticallyRed said:

OP in the hands of those who know how to use it, but that can be said for just about any weapon.

 

The weapon is a high skill, high reward gun.

Couldn't sum it up better than you. 

This gun should be left as it is.

[Kewlin 692]

2 hours ago, Nanometic said:

The TTK is about .1(?) of a difference? Most people wont hit minimum TTK with semi auto weapons since they're semi-automatic, you may get close but unlikely to consistently hit it bang on. Also you're trading .1~ extra second of a TTK for a third less of effort in terms of clicking and aiming, better accuracy, better range and just an overall easier experience.

 

Again ease of use is subjective, I find the oscar considerably easier to use.

 

You told people to prove that there's a reason to use the SR15 when the OSCAR exists, not to prove that you should be using the SR15. Thus, since ease of use is subjective, as you have said, and I agree with, you're essentially agreeing with me that the main reason to use the SR15 carbine over the OSCAR is, in fact, ease of use.

 

As for the "you won't hit the min TTK" thing, yes, you probably won't reach perfectly hit min-TTK very often, but a lower technical TTK on semi-auto guns makes it easier to reach a lower TTK in a practical setting.

 

As for the "third less effort in terms of clicking and aiming," you can't have it both ways and say ease of use is subjective and then go and say lower STK guns are easier. Sure, you need to land fewer shots, but you're also way more screwed if you miss a shot. As you said, it's a trade-off and neither gun is objectively easier to use.

 

 

1 hour ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

1) can i add "carabines" to the classifications? and no, i dont mean it as in "SR-15 carabine" sense, i mean it in the "rifle, but shorter than a rifle so you can use it in more short range situations" sense. i do feel like guns like the ATAC and the RAPTOR doesnt really fit next to the STAR and the NTEC and could use their own classification "between rifle and SMG", thus, carabine.

 

Are you French?

 

Also, no, at least not by the name "carbine." Let's not forget that at least half of the assault rifles in APB are carbines, E.G. the STAR, N-TEC, S1-FA, etc.. I'll agree that it's a category that in-practice exists in APB, which many SMGs and assault rifles fall into, but IDK if it's necessary or practical to officially introduce it as a category.

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

1 hour ago, Kewlin said:

Are you French?

 

Also, no, at least not by the name "carbine." Let's not forget that at least half of the assault rifles in APB are carbines, E.G. the STAR, N-TEC, S1-FA, etc.. I'll agree that it's a category that in-practice exists in APB, which many SMGs and assault rifles fall into, but IDK if it's necessary or practical to officially introduce it as a category.

aw mon chéri, im not french

 

 

i mean, considering we have this thing as an "SMG":

 

^clarely a carabine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo_Precision_Industries_K1

 

i think judging the gun by its look is out of the window already

[Kewlin 692]

2 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

~snip~

 

It's not really "clearly a carbine" if the South Korean military considers it and treats it as an SMG, so it's totally justified as being an classified as an SMG TBH. Additionally, it's a moot point since LO shouldn't put remeshes of guns in different categories than the original.

 

If you'd wanted to make a more solid argument you should have picked on the S1-NA Manic.

 

As I said, I'm not really against a new category, but I'd prefer we avoid the name "carbine," as its meaning has very little to do with what you're actually saying, several of the guns in the category would not be carbines, and many guns outside of the category would also be carbines. Guns in the category would likely include:

 

ACES Rifle (an SMG)

ATAC (an assault rifle/carbine)

M-1922 (an SMG)

Raptor 45 (an assault rifle/carbine)

VAS-C2 (an assault rifle/carbine)

 

 

Lastly though, I don't think this really makes sense ultimately. Sure, the ATAC and Raptor 45 are okay-ish from the hip, but they're not really. . . all that different from other assault rifles except that you shoot them full-auto more often. If we take the logic that the ATAC and Raptor are no longer assault rifles because they're good in CQC, then what about the COBR-A? The COBR-A is designed to often be fired from the hip (perhaps more-so than the ATAC and Raptor,) but I certainly wouldn't put it in a "carbine" class, even if it plays a little different from the other assault rifles. And does the LCR become a marksman rifle? What about the ISSR-a?

 

Ultimately, I'm going to say this doesn't make any more sense than the current system.

 

 

P.S. if you're not French, you might want to speak English and say "carbine."

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

43 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

snip

 

they could have just make the 3D model with a 9mm mag so it would fit the SMG criteria, its not like things like the  MPX are not a thing (you know, guns whose magwell are a noticiable bigger than the magazine itself).

 

probably carbine is not the best name because of the ACES and the 1922... or is it?

 

doesnt people call things like the Cx4 a "carbine"?

 

 

so probably we can fit those 2 as "carbine"... or at least the ACES.

 

btw, i would also add the manic into this... lets call it "sub-rifle" category.

 

about the cobra, i have never used it so i dont really know how it plays. same with the ISSR, i tried the dog ear but people told me all ISSR plays diferently so i dont know anymore.

 

about the LCR, i thought it already was a marksman rifle. i've allways seen it as such.

 

but yeah, i think these guns plays so diferently they deserve another category.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by TheOppositePolarBear

[vsb 6171]

16 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

but yeah, i think these guns plays so diferently they deserve another category.

as far as im aware thats the whole point - these guns are an option for people who dont like the "traditional" class guns but would still like to play that class

[Nanometic 265]

3 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

You told people to prove that there's a reason to use the SR15 when the OSCAR exists, not to prove that you should be using the SR15. Thus, since ease of use is subjective, as you have said, and I agree with, you're essentially agreeing with me that the main reason to use the SR15 carbine over the OSCAR is, in fact, ease of use.

 

As for the "you won't hit the min TTK" thing, yes, you probably won't reach perfectly hit min-TTK very often, but a lower technical TTK on semi-auto guns makes it easier to reach a lower TTK in a practical setting.

 

As for the "third less effort in terms of clicking and aiming," you can't have it both ways and say ease of use is subjective and then go and say lower STK guns are easier. Sure, you need to land fewer shots, but you're also way more screwed if you miss a shot. As you said, it's a trade-off and neither gun is objectively easier to use.

I agree.

 

Except the part about me saying lower STK guns are easier, not really what I was implying, just that for guns that have such relatively similar stats and playstyle, I fail to see a good reason to want that -.1~ to the TTK when you have to trade off so many benefits.

 

At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that the oscar is the n-tec of marksman weapons. But, How would you feel if they reduced the carbine back down to 5 stk?

Edited February 11, 2019 by Nanometic

[Kewlin 692]

4 minutes ago, Nanometic said:

At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that the oscar is the n-tec of marksman weapons. But, How would you feel if they reduced the carbine back down to 5 stk?

 

The OSCAR or CR762, both are kinda' the opposite spectrum of the Marksman category and are insane in their own way.

 

I'd like the SR15 to get a buff, IDK if bringing back its STK is the correct one, but I'd be willing to have it tried out.

[Nanometic 265]

1 minute ago, Kewlin said:

 

The OSCAR or CR762, both are kinda' the opposite spectrum of the Marksman category and are insane in their own way.

 

I'd like the SR15 to get a buff, IDK if bringing back its STK is the correct one, but I'd be willing to have it tried out.

Agreed

[Kewlin 692]

31 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

doesnt people call things like the Cx4 a "carbine"?

 

Pistol Caliber Carbines and Carbines are kinda' different things though TBH.

 

 

31 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

btw, i would also add the manic into this...

 

Oh, yeah, forgot to list the S1-NA in the list I put, though I did obviously mention it as an aside earlier in the post.

 

 

33 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

about the LCR, i thought it already was a marksman rifle. i've allways seen it as such.

 

Nope, the marksman rifle was by definition semi-auto until. . . well. . . until the SBSR happened. . .

 

 

33 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

lets call it "sub-rifle" category.

 

IDK what to call it, maybe carbine makes most sense, but intuitively it seems off to me at least. PDW doesn't really work, and I can't think of much else.

 

In my head I've always just called them hybrid ARs or b.astard guns. (Yes, I'm avoiding the chat filter because it's for a legitimate use, as in "b.astard sword.") Neither of those names really work officially though, lol.

[Fur 87]

I kind of skipped most of this thread. But OSCAR is only slightly better than Carbine cuz no RNG, otherwise theyre both amazing, and both balanced as fuck.

 

The OSCAR rewards skill, just like the .45. Both are difficult to master, and require insane aim, along with good movement.

 

I see no reason to nerf the OSCAR. It's not even meta really. Top tier play never sees it. It was almost never used in 4v4s back in the day, and still, id rather have a Carbine over an OSCAR when vsing good players.

[Thaumaturge 83]

rework your mind

 

 

look at the right side of this and take notes, if this is failing you it's a product of poor execution and/or poor play, be it positioning or aim.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Thaumaturge

[Lign 361]

16 hours ago, Frosi said:

In my opinion, the Oscar is one of the most balanced guns in the game as the gun rewards good aim with versatility, it is extremely strong in the right hands but has its fair counters such as the OCA in close range or just about any weapon that works past 55 meters. Give a below average player an Oscar and he will struggle to go positive in the majority of the mission he plays while a very good player would dominate in the same way he could with just about any other Meta gun in the game. There is a reason why the Oscar is rarely seen in top level play and that is simply because the gun can perform great but at the top end still struggles against a lot of the current Meta weapons, not to mention that it has a slower ttk than the average Meta guns that are being played in the ranges in which the Oscar is effective.

 

I personally think that people believe the Oscar is OP because the only players that really use the gun are the ones that tend to be extremely good at aiming or the game in general, those that really utilize the Oscar and the versatility it rewards for being a good player. 

I do believe if Oscar will get nerfed then there won’t any counters for current meta(ntec) in the game

[Lign 361]

7 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

The OSCAR or CR762, both are kinda' the opposite spectrum of the Marksman category and are insane in their own way.

 

I'd like the SR15 to get a buff, IDK if bringing back its STK is the correct one, but I'd be willing to have it tried out.

Carbine is the most balanced weapon in the game. It doesn’t need any changes at all. it’s strong enough in cqc and can beat Oscar easily in 20m with cj2.

Bringing back it’s old stk will make it the best meta for mid range due to fast ttk.

I know many players who prefers carbine over Oscar due to its possibility in fast spraying your enemies

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Oscar is arguably the most skill reliant gun in the game. Good players will excel with it far more than bad players when compared with something like how easy it is to pick up an OCA. 

 

I think more guns within APB she be rewarding players with that and that the oscar is perfectly fine where it is. 

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

We making "Nerf X Threads" now? Is it my turn yet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

don't worry cooky, I'll be neutral and provide justifiable reasoning :^)

[Ketog 1032]

Good gun ? yes , OP absolutely not

 

While oscar is one of the most rewarding guns in the game , it can't be used by anyone , you can't just spray and pray with oscar , if you ask an ATAC user to use the oscar he will just die over and over .

 

As i said oscar is one of the more rewwarding guns , if you miss (which is very likely to happen knowing that it's a very accurate gun that has very high mobility gemplay)  it's very unforgiving , missing a shot with oscar will get you killed , why missing one or two with a weapon like atac or oca won't .

 

TLDR : If you're a good player the weapon si good , if you are a moderely skilled player , this weapon won't do you any good.

[Anthraxed 5]

This guy is probably one of those players that opted sprint shooting to be deleted because he cant track . learn to track players better , deleting everything you dont like shouldn't be an option rofl .

Edited February 11, 2019 by Anthraxed