Kewlin's Big Shotgun Thread

[Kewlin 692]

Just now, AxeTurboAgresor said:

This is the last thing I will reply to u, cuz u r acting hilarious. U keep ignoring things u said urself and trying to talk ur way around. Pushing the sh*t to the edge just to prove ur point. Guess what, u fell off that edge bruh, and now u act all awkward.

 

JG/CSGs current TTK is ok for me, but its reliability sucks patootie. Git gut  

 

What?

 

 

Just now, Lord Cashpoint said:

 

The amount of thought that went into the original post is pretty impressive. I'm not really going to comment on your suggestions just yet but I will ask if you think SMGs need better balancing if we are to ever fix shotguns? The OCA is still at its stupid low ttk which it was given to help combat shotguns.

 

Thanks, it was a fun, albeit somewhat tiresome and stressful post to make.

 

Yes, I believe the OCA should be brought to a half-way point between what it is now and what it was before it was buffed, or perhaps entirely reverted if that's still too good, and the Manic need a nerf as well. I'm not really sure I quite agree with you that the OCA was given its buff to combat shotguns, seeming as in my memory the PMG was the king of close quarters at that time and shotguns were not really meta IMO. Other than that, I honestly think SMGs are in a pretty good place beside maybe the Norseman, but I don't own a norseman so I can't really say for sure. (I'm not counting the C2 and all those guns that fit between SMGs and ARs, that becomes more complicated, and I honestly consider them almost their own class.)

 

Sidenote: I really need to learn to use excel better if I'm ever going to do anything like this again. Lol.

[Lign 361]

I disagree about buffing jg. In apb it’s so easy to aim and track your opponent, jg doesn’t even require to track the enemy. Nowadays to be able killing jg you have to kill before a 2nd shot or pray for your opponent missing the shot. It’s hard to do with oca, even if it has faster ttk, it’s nearly impossible to minttk with it due to rng. Ask yourself, how often you minttk by oca or make twoshot by jg. And don’t forget how much jg benefits from corners. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Lign

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

21 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

What?

Exactly my thought on you.

 

Your belief that that JG/SCG needs better TTK only flows from you being bad with shotguns and missiong the point of shotguns.

The only reason I dislike Strifes TTK is bcs it cant compete vs other shotguns. Otherwise it would be pretty fine weapon.

Even if JG/CSG had TTK of 1s, they would be a great weapons, but 1s is too extreme. Thats why we need to find this sweet middle spot, and I say this spot defenitely does not lays under its current TTK.

[Nitronik 348]

TBH I don't really think shotguns need a full revert or massive overhauls. The pellet scaling mechanic is a GODSEND. The foundation for them to be a balanced weapon are in place, they just fudged some stats along the way. I partially agree with some suggestions in the OP


IMO priority number one wold be buffing the drop-off range on JG and CSG, and lowering the CSG's TTK to 0.75 instead of the current .77

IR3 is almost necessary for shotguns to be halfway decent and that's a problem
 

It's funny - LO made the tools to help make shotguns consistent, but then gave them stats that makes them rather inconsistent as soon as any distance is in play

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Nitronik

[GhosT 1301]

Someone that knows his stuff.

 

I like it.

[Kewlin 692]

12 hours ago, Lign said:

I disagree about buffing jg. In apb it’s so easy to aim and track your opponent, jg doesn’t even require to track the enemy. Nowadays to be able killing jg you have to kill before a 2nd shot or pray for your opponent missing the shot. It’s hard to do with oca, even if it has faster ttk, it’s nearly impossible to minttk with it due to rng. Ask yourself, how often you minttk by oca or make twoshot by jg. And don’t forget how much jg benefits from corners. 

 

I mean, the JG basically got straight up nerfed, at the very least it needs to be reverted. It's the only gun in the game that without mods has less effective range than the PIG, and it's a primary. Plus, quite honestly, the JG isn't guaranteed to get a 2-shot even within its 7.5m effective range, so I can't say I agree with you that the gun's fine as-is, not to mention calling it "nearly impossible" to min-TTK with the OCA is ridiculous: you just have to be close enough and decent at tracking. Lastly, the JG barely benefits from corners because actually corner camping requires you to have some amount of range, or else your opponent can just rush the corner.

 

I'd be fine with a revert, or I'd be fine with a range buff, but the gun can't get nothing because it's tied for worst gun in the game right now IMO. As I've said, I only want a TTK buff or revert to the JG if it's not OP with my proposed range buff.

 

 

I appreciate the concern, but I'm not that afraid of the JG becoming horribly overpowered when it currently is so bad.

 

 

12 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

Exactly my thought on you.

 

Your belief that that JG/SCG needs better TTK only flows from you being bad with shotguns and missiong the point of shotguns.

The only reason I dislike Strifes TTK is bcs it cant compete vs other shotguns. Otherwise it would be pretty fine weapon.

Even if JG/CSG had TTK of 1s, they would be a great weapons, but 1s is too extreme. Thats why we need to find this sweet middle spot, and I say this spot defenitely does not lays under its current TTK.

 

Honestly Axe, I didn't even expect my low quality bait to work; I literally just put it there as a joke. You need to stop my friend: take a chill pill, because this isn't going anywhere. Hold yourself to your own word.

 

P.S. I never said the JG and CSG need a better TTK, and I've said that like a million times to you by now.

 

 

10 hours ago, Nitronik said:

TBH I don't really think shotguns need a full revert or massive overhauls. The pellet scaling mechanic is a GODSEND. The foundation for them to be a balanced weapon are in place, they just fudged some stats along the way. I partially agree with some suggestions in the OP


IMO priority number one wold be buffing the drop-off range on JG and CSG, and lowering the CSG's TTK to 0.75 instead of the current .77

IR3 is almost necessary for shotguns to be halfway decent and that's a problem
 

It's funny - LO made the tools to help make shotguns consistent, but then gave them stats that makes them rather inconsistent as soon as any distance is in play

 

I'm confused, I feel like you just paraphrased my post and then said you disagree with me? If you read my post, nothing suggested was really a massive overhaul, (though there's a lot, because I suggested changes to all but one shotgun,) and I only want a revert if LO doesn't want to put in the effort to fix the CSG, JG, and NFAS at this moment while they're working on the EU.

 

I like the pellet scaling, they just didn't put in quite the right numbers, and my entire post is about trying to just slightly tweak the damage of shotguns while upping the range on the ones that got their range destroyed. Like you said, requiring IR3 has horrible side effects on both the CSG and JG.

 

 

7 hours ago, GhosT said:

Someone that knows his stuff.

 

I like it.

 

It's still a little spooky having you agree with me Ghost.

[BlatMan 711]

I don't get why game devs think shotguns should have 45 degrees of pellet spread. Your suggestions are way better than the current stats, but I rather have shotguns have much tighter spread but with less damage. Also, 30M should be the minimum damage range for all lethal weapons.

 

 

[Acornie 490]

Hmmm, I dunno, I still feel like the Nfas is an annoying weapon, I mean I cant use one for 3 minutes without someone insulting me in multiple ways in /d. Also, going against; kev 3 + car warrior + Nfas = a very unfun fight

[Kewlin 692]

On 11/25/2018 at 5:54 PM, MrsHappyPenguin said:

I don't get why game devs think shotguns should have 45 degrees of pellet spread. Your suggestions are way better than the current stats, but I rather have shotguns have much tighter spread but with less damage. Also, 30M should be the minimum damage range for all lethal weapons.

 

While I agree with the sentiment, I think at this point it'd be better to add a shotgun that did that then to change the other shotguns to having tight spread. I'm totally hyped though whenever I play a game where shotguns have any range at all.

 

 

On 11/25/2018 at 6:07 PM, Archon said:

Hmmm, I dunno, I still feel like the Nfas is an annoying weapon, I mean I cant use one for 3 minutes without someone insulting me in multiple ways in /d. Also, going against; kev 3 + car warrior + Nfas = a very unfun fight

 

Honestly, I've always felt a little proud of anyone who uses the NFAS despite everyone hating it for being a noob gun, with the exception maybe of you-know-who.

 

Maybe that's just nostalgia from back in the day when I played NFAS on my computer that ran APB at like 2 FPS and decals totally fucked my entire screen though.

 

 

Do you actually find the NFAS annoying in its current state though? I personally find it rather difficult to use.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Kewlin

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, Archon said:

Hmmm, I dunno, I still feel like the Nfas is an annoying weapon, I mean I cant use one for 3 minutes without someone insulting me in multiple ways in /d. Also, going against; kev 3 + car warrior + Nfas = a very unfun fight

40 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

 

Do you actually find the NFAS annoying in its current state though? I personally find it rather difficult to use.

the nfas is just in a bad spot imo, the super close range dominance on its own isnt enough to make the weapon worth sacrificing a primary spot for

 

on top of that both the thumper and the ogre do nearly the same thing but better (in different ways), further invalidating the nfas

[Kewlin 692]

10 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

the nfas is just in a bad spot imo, the super close range dominance on its own isnt enough to make the weapon worth sacrificing a primary spot for

 

on top of that both the thumper and the ogre do nearly the same thing but better (in different ways), further invalidating the nfas

 

IDK if I'd really even say the NFAS has CQC dominance right now TBH. IDK why, exactly, but it just feels especially awful.

[Ketog 1031]

Honestly , there's one thing that almost everyone can agree on , shotguns were fine before LO touched them , and plus no one asked for them to be buffed

 

But LO introduced the pellet scaling mechanic with everyone liked a lot too ! the problem is they took the opportunity to change other values after adding this mechanic

 

 

In the end , putting back the shotgun values to where they were before before lo's changes but applying the pellet scaling mechanic on them would be good and enough to make shotguns how they need to be

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ketog

[Kewlin 692]

1 hour ago, Ketog said:

Honestly , there's one thing that almost everyone can agree on , shotguns were fine before LO touched them , and plus no one asked for them to be buffed

 

But lo introduced the pellet scaling mechanic with everyone liked a lot too ! the problem is LO took the opporrtunity to change other values after adding this mechanic

 

 

In the end putting back the shotgun values to where they were before before lo's change, but applying the pellet scaling mechanic on them would be good and enough to make shotguns how they need to be

 

 

Agreed.

[Fortune Runner 796]

as long as there's no sniper shotguns

[BlatMan 711]

46 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

as long as there's no sniper shotguns

APB's max range is so low nothing can be called a sniper. This and the overly open districts makes it tough to properly balance and separate weapons. In other games you don't even need a scope at 100M.

 

I'd be fine with Reloaded's shotgun stats with the current pellet scaling. It would make shotguns feel the most consistent, while still providing enough rng at range to keep the OCA and PMG more reliable.

Edited November 26, 2018 by MrsHappyPenguin

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

I am going to ask one last time. Where is the TLDR @Kewlin

 

[Lign 361]

12 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

I mean, the JG basically got straight up nerfed, at the very least it needs to be reverted. It's the only gun in the game that without mods has less effective range than the PIG, and it's a primary. Plus, quite honestly, the JG isn't guaranteed to get a 2-shot even within its 7.5m effective range, so I can't say I agree with you that the gun's fine as-is, not to mention calling it "nearly impossible" to min-TTK with the OCA is ridiculous: you just have to be close enough and decent at tracking. Lastly, the JG barely benefits from corners because actually corner camping requires you to have some amount of range, or else your opponent can just rush the corner.

 

I'd be fine with a revert, or I'd be fine with a range buff, but the gun can't get nothing because it's tied for worst gun in the game right now IMO. As I've said, I only want a TTK buff or revert to the JG if it's not OP with my proposed range buff.

 

 

I appreciate the concern, but I'm not that afraid of the JG becoming horribly overpowered when it currently is so bad.

 

 

 

Honestly Axe, I didn't even expect my low quality bait to work; I literally just put it there as a joke. You need to stop my friend: take a chill pill, because this isn't going anywhere. Hold yourself to your own word.

 

P.S. I never said the JG and CSG need a better TTK, and I've said that like a million times to you by now.

 

 

 

I'm confused, I feel like you just paraphrased my post and then said you disagree with me? If you read my post, nothing suggested was really a massive overhaul, (though there's a lot, because I suggested changes to all but one shotgun,) and I only want a revert if LO doesn't want to put in the effort to fix the CSG, JG, and NFAS at this moment while they're working on the EU.

 

I like the pellet scaling, they just didn't put in quite the right numbers, and my entire post is about trying to just slightly tweak the damage of shotguns while upping the range on the ones that got their range destroyed. Like you said, requiring IR3 has horrible side effects on both the CSG and JG.

 

 

 

It's still a little spooky having you agree with me Ghost.

Why in about 90% of me fighting jg I get two shotted then? Comparing two types of fights,oca vs oca and oca vs jg. Fight against jg is shorter than fight against oca. At average when I face against decent player with oca, we have longer fight than when I face jg. That means in practice oca has a longer ttk than jg. 

 

About corners. It seems you don’t know that in 3rd person shooter guns that can provide a lot damage per one shot and per one corner pick are stronger than weapons that needs to have enemy at your aim constantly. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Lign

[LuddeBoii 54]

@Kewlin

great post! I hope @MattScott and the LO team can use this as a guideline when they take a second try to balance the shotguns 

[Kempington 295]

Lots of interesting thoughts here. I want to respond, but don't have the time. I'll respond when I get home.

[Ch1ck 45]

Good post, but will it really ever get into the viewpoint of Little Orbit? I don't want to sound wrong, but I highly doubt they'll take this even into the consideration.

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

5 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

I am going to ask one last time. Where is the TLDR @Kewlin

 

Dw, I'll do it for you...

 

 

...When I read it

[BrandonBranderson 672]

16 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

IDK if I'd really even say the NFAS has CQC dominance right now TBH. IDK why, exactly, but it just feels especially awful.

The reason I don't like the NFAS is because it sounds like someone dropping the lid of a plastic trash bin.  Makes it feel really weak whether it's doing a lot of damage or not.  Ogre picks up the slack here with the most terrifying sound in the game though.

 

All in all I really like these ideas.

Edited November 26, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[Nitronik 348]

NFAS sounds pretty awesome imo. PAAM PAAM PAAM PAAM and the whole room's coated in lead. I love how the firing sound just pops your ears

[Kewlin 692]

10 hours ago, Lign said:

Why in about 90% of me fighting jg I get two shotted then? Comparing two types of fights,oca vs oca and oca vs jg. Fight against jg is shorter than fight against oca. At average when I face against decent player with oca, we have longer fight than when I face jg. That means in practice oca has a longer ttk than jg. 

 

About corners. It seems you don’t know that in 3rd person shooter guns that can provide a lot damage per one shot and per one corner pick are stronger than weapons that needs to have enemy at your aim constantly. 

 

All I can say is that, from my experience, the JG does not reliably 2-shot, and I'm referring to myself and opposition (INB4 someone tries to pull a "git gud Silver." I'm Gold, so at least my opposition should sometimes have good aim.) Whenever I face a JG I just laugh and fuck them over, but when I'm facing an OCA I sigh at the fact that I need to face one of the easiest and best guns in the game.

 

That's all I can say really.

 

 

12 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

I am going to ask one last time. Where is the TLDR @Kewlin

 

 

tldr Gib sum shottys mor rang, redo dmg

[Lign 361]

1 hour ago, Kewlin said:

 

All I can say is that, from my experience, the JG does not reliably 2-shot, and I'm referring to myself and opposition (INB4 someone tries to pull a "git gud Silver." I'm Gold, so at least my opposition should sometimes have good aim.) Whenever I face a JG I just laugh and fuck them over, but when I'm facing an OCA I sigh at the fact that I need to face one of the easiest and best guns in the game.

 

That's all I can say really.

 

 

 

tldr Gib sum shottys mor rang, redo dmg

Lets be real, gold is nothing at the current statement of the game, new players can get it by losing missions. if you faced such a bad player who can’t play with the gun that doesn’t even require to track enemy, that doesn’t mean that the gun is bad. Try to play in asylum on citadel for 2 hours in peak time, you’re going to see how wrong you’re