Raytracing and DLSS - UE4?

[Snubnose 639]

just a technical question for @MattScott

will APB get raytracing (unlikely I think) or DLSS (more likely) in the future (perhaps with the unreal engine 4 upgrade that's being worked on)?
and - have you even considered implementing this new tech ever since the RTX series got released?

 

some additional text that can be ignored:

about raytracing - for Battlefield V it's unfinished and still getting developed... it's a huge performance impact (even though with some other options turned down from ultra, it's running fine) and also has some little errors (like some bushes or FX not properly getting traced in the reflection of the water, but that's just a small problem).

about DLSS - well, it's pretty much a performance friendlier anti-aliasing, for the cost of a little bit of sharpness the usual anti-aliasing techniques provide. just watch this video. the difference on screen is minimal (some might not even notice, but the performance improvement is quite big)

[kidi 14]

ha ha

[nikitos5 51]

Well, if they wanted to add this, then it would be very low on their priority list. Maybe lower than hdr support

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Funny meme.

[Sayori 311]

When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?

Just buy it!

 

And can we have a raven progressive matrices test which is required to be completed before getting forum post rights?

[_chain 176]

Why though, take into account all the people complaining bout fps drops and you wanna add that now? 

But it would be great marketing for the game. Imagine it popping up in a list of games that support it.

[LilyRain 671]

Little Orbit is decent with mobile-games..

 

Chances that LO have considered adding raytracing to APB is slightly lower than those of releasing exclusive titles for Samsung's Galaxy Note 7.....

 

BOOM

[Nite 261]

You all have some really big graphical dreams for this game don't ya....

[Nessie 81]

Sure, just wait for the engine upgrade!

By 2014 it will be released with Dynamic Virtual Reality Graphic and Holografic 3D Environment Projection systems.

 

 

Game is old. It won't get upgraded graphics. The only way to do that is work on an entirely new game from grounds up, but apparently there is never a company with enough resources to invest into that. Get your soul at peace, APB is and will die the way you have it now. At max, it will get worse performance with the passing time.

[Jazeker 1082]

Raytracing is a mess in BFV ... even the 1080TI cannot handle anything above ''minimal' without dropping your fps to unacceptable numbers, and that's a 1080TI rendering 1080p.

 

As a partner and as named by the NVIDIA CEO to be a title that would support RTX at launch, BV5 was FORCED to implement it. Their implementation is like this: SOME reflecting surfaces do SOME Raytracing. Nothing else. Like, the Rotterdam map in particular has more surfaces (shops, buildings) that now support RTX, than for example any BFV forest map. Those forrest maps only have some RTX water pools. The 2080 TI chokes on Rotterdam now. It is somewhat playable in 1080p with RTX on MINIMUM. It BARELY handles forest maps in 1080p with full RTX on.

 

We are taling about a $1400 flagship card here, with 11GB of GDDR6, literally the newest graphical hardware in the world ... it is insane. It is not RTX is not ready. Besides do you think people who paid this kind of money have a monitor that's meant for 1080p gaming? No way!

 

Let's be fair also; when you set everything on ultra, the actual RTX effects are gorgeous. They really are if you can find them. And, maybe even more important, for devs this will be the future as RTX is way more flexible for reflections than anything they had available before.  But RTX will take time. What we see in BFV is a mess.

 

RTX and DLSS was hyped. That presentation show was pure marketing. The 2080 TI  being barely able to deliver the raw power needed to use it in 1080p. The 2070 is too weak to even consider for current gen RTX implementations. Deep learning might be able to give it a sufficient boost but we are talking several iterations down the development line. (The 2070 is a fast gaming card for non-rtx gaming don't get it mixed up, it's just not suitable for current gen RTX implementations.)

 

And all that, all that power, is now needed for a FEW RTX surfaces in BFV. Not the whole scene, no, a FEW surfaces. And it's not only BVF, same goes for Tomb Raider. Stay away from it until it matures, that's a sound advice for both early customers and early devs. Let those big guys and companies figure out how the heck this has to be used first. LOL Then adapt towards it. Then spend your money.

 

Really all that NVIDIA showed with that presentation, complete ******* marketing. The cards cannot handle it.  And that's apart from the RTX cards breaking down many, many, early adopters. If you got money to throw you won't really care, but even then you really should, because what was promised wan't delivered. People should take promises serious again, and repel when promises arn't kept. It's too easy for big business to play with people like this today.

 

Oh man what a rant. Boo NVIDIA !

 

I mean the 2080 TI , in 1080p ;

 

Raytracing is a mess in BFV ... even the 2080TI cannot handle anything above ''minimal' without dropping your fps to unacceptable numbers, and that's a 2080TI rendering 1080p.

 

 

ANYWAY

 

 

 

[Jazeker 1082]

lol xD next read it again before posting a rant hahahahaha .... oh well you should be able to get the message

[Snubnose 639]

13 hours ago, _chain said:

Why though, take into account all the people complaining bout fps drops and you wanna add that now? 

But it would be great marketing for the game. Imagine it popping up in a list of games that support it.

why are you implying that I wanted them to add it now?
if it's ever going to be added, it would most likely be with / after unreal engine 4, and that's still far away. (UE3 upgrade should already take care of the fps drops / performance issues. if not, this game is even more doomed than now - and that's barely possible)

also, you guys need to understand that this is a question, not a request.
(although I'd appreciate DLSS, since APB's current AA is taking it's toll on FPS.)

I was reading some stuff about RTX and DLSS, was bored and decided to make this thread out of curiosity. can't be bothered too much with APB anymore, so I guess I'm "out" of this thread. (didn't intend to discuss about RTX or DLSS in here, just wanted to ask a question and make it public instead of taking it to DM's). but everyone else, feel free to continue - I'll be waiting for matt to answer my question

[AgentWatson 85]

4 hours ago, Jazeker said:

Raytracing is a mess in BFV ... even the 1080TI cannot handle anything above ''minimal' without dropping your fps to unacceptable numbers, and that's a 1080TI rendering 1080p.

 

As a partner and as named by the NVIDIA CEO to be a title that would support RTX at launch, BV5 was FORCED to implement it. Their implementation is like this: SOME reflecting surfaces do SOME Raytracing. Nothing else. Like, the Rotterdam map in particular has more surfaces (shops, buildings) that now support RTX, than for example any BFV forest map. Those forrest maps only have some RTX water pools. The 2080 TI chokes on Rotterdam now. It is somewhat playable in 1080p with RTX on MINIMUM. It BARELY handles forest maps in 1080p with full RTX on.

 

We are taling about a $1400 flagship card here, with 11GB of GDDR6, literally the newest graphical hardware in the world ... it is insane. It is not RTX is not ready. Besides do you think people who paid this kind of money have a monitor that's meant for 1080p gaming? No way!

 

Let's be fair also; when you set everything on ultra, the actual RTX effects are gorgeous. They really are if you can find them. And, maybe even more important, for devs this will be the future as RTX is way more flexible for reflections than anything they had available before.  But RTX will take time. What we see in BFV is a mess.

 

RTX and DLSS was hyped. That presentation show was pure marketing. The 2080 TI  being barely able to deliver the raw power needed to use it in 1080p. The 2070 is too weak to even consider for current gen RTX implementations. Deep learning might be able to give it a sufficient boost but we are talking several iterations down the development line. (The 2070 is a fast gaming card for non-rtx gaming don't get it mixed up, it's just not suitable for current gen RTX implementations.)

 

And all that, all that power, is now needed for a FEW RTX surfaces in BFV. Not the whole scene, no, a FEW surfaces. And it's not only BVF, same goes for Tomb Raider. Stay away from it until it matures, that's a sound advice for both early customers and early devs. Let those big guys and companies figure out how the heck this has to be used first. LOL Then adapt towards it. Then spend your money.

 

Really all that NVIDIA showed with that presentation, complete ******* marketing. The cards cannot handle it.  And that's apart from the RTX cards breaking down many, many, early adopters. If you got money to throw you won't really care, but even then you really should, because what was promised wan't delivered. People should take promises serious again, and repel when promises arn't kept. It's too easy for big business to play with people like this today.

 

Oh man what a rant. Boo NVIDIA !

 

I mean the 2080 TI , in 1080p ;

 

Raytracing is a mess in BFV ... even the 2080TI cannot handle anything above ''minimal' without dropping your fps to unacceptable numbers, and that's a 2080TI rendering 1080p.

 

 

ANYWAY

 

 

 

Partner is not analogous with labrat it's analogous toward mutual beneficiary. Because DICE teaming up with NVIDIA here to deliver this technology is going to benefit DICE in the long run. You're only thinking about it in simple terms. It's about adding technologies specifically, DLSS or NAS, or Ray-tracing. path-tracing that add longevity to the game well into the future. 

 

BFV will still perhaps be relevant in another 2-3 years and even further out when people are still playing BFV they'll be able to utilize the new cards of that day to provide them a playable experience with ray-tracing included. The whole reason we can appreciate games like Crysis is because there was a lot of forward thinking design choices that slaughtered the hardware of that day, but we're appreciate of the ability to play Crysis. NVIDIA have changed the game when it comes to how computation of effects works on their cards, thanks to the ingenious use of tensor on the die. Tensor can be used in conjunction with CUDA but overall the tensor stack on NVIDIA's cards is open source you can design your own effects to utilize the tensor stack on a card that supports it. 

 

More importantly, we've not even gotten to UE 3.5 yet, by the time I imagine UE 4 is here NVIDIA will coming up on their next lineup of cards and I'm going to make the prediction that raytracing will become playable in 2 years from now. NVIDIA have been playing with chiplets on their PCB, using their new connection interface called NVSwitch on the PCB to connect multiple die spaces. They'll do this to increase the amount of silicon on the die dedicated for tensor stacks like ray-tracing but have a seperate die purely for tessellation. NVIDIA have published a white paper about this technology and their implementation of chiplets. 

 

If APB is going to remain relevant for another 10 years then I don't see any issue in implementing raytracing into the game. No one is forcing anyone to use it, it's a alternative feature you can toggle on or off in BFV.

 

[Fasalina 163]

Can we stop with these suggestions. If this game survives past 3.5, if we ever get it (all we have now is a vague it might be on OTW by the end of 2018 or it might not) the time it will take to get to 4.0 RTX will probably allready be obsolete. 

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

 

I want to try and at least acknowledge the OP's post.

 

Honestly, it's hard to think about raytracing or DLSS with the game in its current state.

We've got to finish UE3.5 to consolidate the code.

We have RIOT coming out next year as a big content upgrade.

We have UE4 after that...

 

My personal opinion is that players want the game to be fast, responsive, and accurate.

It seems like they will sacrifice the graphics to ugly minimal settings in order to get that.

So I doubt there is a lot of bang for the buck developing out either of these two rendering systems.

 

Having said that, I think if APB was a PVE game, or had a mode that was less competitive, then it might be worth investing in either system.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[vsb 6171]

17 minutes ago, MattScott said:

It seems like they will sacrifice the graphics to ugly minimal settings in order to get that.

might be true, but currently this is more mandatory than a voluntary sacrifice imo - theres really no other way to get the "necessary" performance for A) a shooter, and B) an older, supposedly less graphically intensive game

 

i'd hold off basing decisions on this until after performance is stabilized by the new engine, and if its not none of us will have to worry about this anyway lol

[mynd 120]

I think improving APB graphic fidelity should be a bit of a priority, especially if you want to increase chances of longevity.  Making the jump into raytracing and dlss might not be necessary anytime in the near (or far) future, but doesn't mean graphics work shouldn't be focused on and addressed.

 

It would be a big deal to me to see higher res textures through the game, to see higher quality renderings of player symbols on cars and clothes.  Increasing map detail reasonably with a better optimized engine.  Not silly things like adding old school powerlines to a modern city  

 

If you want to increase APB's life, I think this is an important part of the process though not high priority right now.

[Ketog 1031]

why would they bother implementing a meme technology that works only on cards with a high failure rate , not only this technology would be usefull only in current gen games , but it would work for only an extremely small percentage of APB's population , complete waste of time and effort at it's current state.

 

oh yeah , also remember that when you enable RTX your FPS can dip down up to 50% hehe.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Ketog

[Bigalbroski 1]

I think DLSS at some point would be great because it increases frame rate by large amounts. I don't know how much work it takes devs to actually implement DLSS but it seems that nvidia does the work by forcing AI to watch frames of the game.

[SinistraDelMassa 11]

Matt is exactly right. Once the engine upgrades begin to roll out, we'll be able to see if everyone can turn their existing settings up first, let's think about new features after that!

[Similarities 226]

16 hours ago, Nessie said:

Game is old. It won't get upgraded graphics. The only way to do that is work on an entirely new game from grounds up, but apparently there is never a company with enough resources to invest into that.

2

That's just flat out wrong, game's age doesn't have a direct impact on the ability to change graphical fidelity, nor does the age of the engine. CS:S had bloom and HDR added in 2010, along with Bethesda going from creating games that looked like garbage even for the time, to games that look a lot less garbage but still garbage...for the time, and they used the same engine the entire time. The games weren't rebuilt from scratch either, FO4 has code in it from Skyrim and looks far better than Skyrim, and FO76 has a bunch of placeholders from Skyrim and code from both FO4 and Skyrim, but still looks far better than Skyrim and FO4. Same engine, FO76 is even reusing assets from FO4, but once again, looks far better than FO4, from Skyrim to FO4 (reminder, FO4 is using a lot of code from Skyrim), they added light rays and many other improvements to graphics.

 

This is all coming from a developer that refuses to update their old Gamebryo-based engine to not rely on an FPS cap, because if your FPS is above 60, the physics freak out and you run like the flash (well, this is kind of a fib because FO76 just released a patch to fix that.)

[Lign 361]

9 hours ago, MattScott said:

Hi all,

 

I want to try and at least acknowledge the OP's post.

 

Honestly, it's hard to think about raytracing or DLSS with the game in its current state.

We've got to finish UE3.5 to consolidate the code.

We have RIOT coming out next year as a big content upgrade.

We have UE4 after that...

 

My personal opinion is that players want the game to be fast, responsive, and accurate.

It seems like they will sacrifice the graphics to ugly minimal settings in order to get that.

So I doubt there is a lot of bang for the buck developing out either of these two rendering systems.

 

Having said that, I think if APB was a PVE game, or had a mode that was less competitive, then it might be worth investing in either system.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks,

Matt

Good to know that you begin to realize how the game works