Am i the only dude that dislikes the slow ttk?

[Gateron 267]

Back in the day this game used to be fast with high ttk guns and sprint shooting. Now it's just feels super slow and it doesn't feel rewarding also you are not able to kill multiple people in a row anymore unless they are bad and this also results in unable to carry games anymore when you play against decent teams with your random teammates. #Clanmanmodeapb2018

It feels like the skill ceiling dropped down. Since all these TTK patches from G1/Little Orbit
I know i am gonna get hated for this but i will put out my opinion maybe other beta tester participants agree with my opinion
 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Topre

[Genobee 143]

I don't know. I was a big fan of the original TTK to be quite honest. Never really enjoyed the G1 style of it all. Just never meshed well with the other aspects of the games design that seemed to be left as-is back when all that was changed. Missions, level design, etc. 

It's a mess regardless, and it's quite short these days. Not really sure where the idea of a long TTK is coming from. Most guns in APB kill at about the same pace they always have?

[vsb 6174]

ttk has gone down over the years so i don’t understand where youre coming from

i do agree that the removal of sprint shooting was far more detrimental than beneficial; carbine/oscar were barely affected, while guns that likely weren’t even considered during testing were significantly affected 

[Gateron 267]

Just now, Genobee said:

I don't know. I was a big fan of the original TTK to be quite honest. Never really enjoyed the G1 style of it all. Just never meshed well with the other aspects of the games design that seemed to be left as-is back when all that was changed. Missions, level design, etc. 

It's a mess regardless, and it's quite short these days. Not really sure where the idea of a long TTK is coming from. Most guns in APB kill at about the same pace they always have?

 I remember a vague post that the community could vote for higher ttk and majority of course said instantly yes

[ForeverCrooked 29]

I prefer a ttk that rewards consistent tracking rather than flick-aim.

[LordVegeta 35]

22 minutes ago, ForeverCrooked said:

I prefer a ttk that rewards consistent tracking rather than flick-aim.

Same. Honestly, I think APB's TTK is fine. I hate games that have really fast TTKs and 1 hit KO's. How is dying to 1 bullet fun?

[BrandonBranderson 672]

2 hours ago, Topre said:

3 hours ago, Genobee said:

I don't know. I was a big fan of the original TTK to be quite honest. Never really enjoyed the G1 style of it all. Just never meshed well with the other aspects of the games design that seemed to be left as-is back when all that was changed. Missions, level design, etc. 

It's a mess regardless, and it's quite short these days. Not really sure where the idea of a long TTK is coming from. Most guns in APB kill at about the same pace they always have?

 I remember a vague post that the community could vote for higher ttk and majority of course said instantly yes

So you're saying that you don't really know for sure that the TTK is longer than it used to be?  The TTK is pretty much the same as it always has been under G1, shorter than ever if it is any different at all.  The problem with that longer TTK thread is that when G1 implemented the test districts (Yes this is the reason the test districts were created in the first place) they did a horrible job.  They had RTW districts with the stats from RTW's final version, and one with their own longer TTK stats.  The RTW districts were awful because there were just so many oversights in regards to things they changed in the past like the vehicle health values, grenade damage, jump height, etc.  Percussion grenades could 1-shot any vehicle, the jump height was about half of what it  is now and the recoil was insane.  Later they switched it to the original no-recoil which was better than RTW's tacked on recoil imo.  I didn't spend much time on G1's high TTK districts because they died pretty quick, so I don't really know how to judge those ones.  I remember not liking them though.  Can't quite recall what was different though.  I think it involved even more RNG but I could be wrong.

[vsb 6174]

34 minutes ago, BrandonBranderson said:

I didn't spend much time on G1's high TTK districts because they died pretty quick, so I don't really know how to judge those ones.  I remember not liking them though.  Can't quite recall what was different though.  I think it involved even more RNG but I could be wrong.

pretty sure they just decreased the rof on guns and called it day

[StrelitziaDeWitt 56]

Sounds like someone needs to play Quake champions instagib.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

What. TTK has only gotten faster. RTW was very slow TTK. Then G1 made it faster and over the years it has only gotten faster.

[Dopefish 248]

4 hours ago, BrandonBranderson said:

I remember not liking them though.  Can't quite recall what was different though.  I think it involved even more RNG but I could be wrong.

Like you mentioned, the test were done poorly, and I believe it was deliberately see. Qwentle always preferred faster TTK, and were proud of his implementation for when G1 took over, so if a TTK change would've gone through, it would've invalidated his work and forced him to rebalance every weapon in the game. The districts died out quickly because they were pretty much unplayable due to the perc one-shotting cars, and even though the weapons were slowed down, their accuracy were never improved which only made the RNG more apparent.

I believe it would've been better with a smaller TTK increase, such as 0.7s -> 0.9s, but instead we've only had lower TTK creep over the years, just reinforcing the issues with the rest of the game never being balanced around it. Animations such as entering vehicles, climbing ladders, opening door were created with a certain TTK in mind, and the same goes for the level design where you don't have time to reach any cover if you start getting shot at.

The low TTK were implemented to make it possible for lesser skilled players to get kills aswell, but I think the change actually worked against them instead, as they only die faster now. Third person view with low TTK makes for a very frustrating experience as people can simply stand around a corner with perfect information, and pretty much get a free kill without much effort. It makes the game stale, repetitive and very uninteresting.

The biggest difference was that it made coordinated gameplay much less important, as one guy can now cover an entrance by himself, while before he would've been overrun if more than one player attacked from that direction, making it a trade-off to spread out the defense to cover more areas, or having more people cover one entrance, leaving other areas open. This is what made defense having such a big advantage over attackers.

I really wish they'd reconsider this, but I don't even know if this community would be open for a change anymore, as they have had the same game without changes such a long time now.

[Nitronik 348]

8 hours ago, ForeverCrooked said:

I prefer a ttk that rewards consistent tracking rather than flick-aim.

Given how many shots weapons take to kill (for the most part) this still applies

I think it's far too late to revert the TTK to RTW times, so at this rate you should look at adjusting the rest of the game to support the lower TTK, which is something G1 never really did - things like animation timing changes (as @Dopefish mentioned), map changes (add cover to help traverse longer stretches, remove ladders and replace with staircases so you're not stuck and guaranteed to die, avoid super long funnels by adding more ways in and out) etc...

[Keshi 436]

13 hours ago, ForeverCrooked said:

I prefer a ttk that rewards consistent tracking rather than flick-aim.

only thing wrong with this is the hitreg we had lately

[GhosT 1301]

Back in the day TTK was a lot slower than what we have now, so you can be happy.
Some of the guns in the game already have the potential to kill incredibly fast, which I'm not a fan of.

As someone else above said, you should get a kill by your ability to track someone and to compensate things like recoil or bloom, instead of killing someone by flick spraying into them.

[BrandonBranderson 672]

7 hours ago, Dopefish said:

-Snip-

I had a feeling the test districts were sabotaged by Qwentle, and this just strengthens my theory.  Thanks for explaining it in more detail.  I wonder if he's one of the devs LO has been trying to pick up again?  God I hope not.  Since the game is in new hands and he isn't around to sabotage this again I'd like it if LO would consider trying it again, but actually do it right this time.  I've definitely gotten used to the gunplay after having played for this long (not saying I'm good at all though, I still suck) but I think it could only benefit the game to give it a try.
  Edited October 3, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[Genobee 143]

On 10/3/2018 at 10:19 AM, BrandonBranderson said:

I had a feeling the test districts were sabotaged by Qwentle, and this just strengthens my theory.  Thanks for explaining it in more detail.  I wonder if he's one of the devs LO has been trying to pick up again?  God I hope not.  Since the game is in new hands and he isn't around to sabotage this again I'd like it if LO would consider trying it again, but actually do it right this time.  I've definitely gotten used to the gunplay after having played for this long (not saying I'm good at all though, I still suck) but I think it could only benefit the game to give it a try.
 

I wouldn't go so far as to say sabotaged. What probably happened is someone up top in G1 had very little interest in pursuing those types of changes. So what we got was something to quiet us angry bastards down a bit. Just to show us that their way was the better bet. Not to truly test the waters on whether or not there were other ways to approach the games effective TTK. I believe that is why the bugs remained in that test until the end. 

In my person opinion I would still strongly prefer them to investigate bumping up the effective TTK slightly. We all know the games design doesn't exactly facilitate an ultra low TTK (damn did Dopefish put that nicely). Not sure why they are so intent on fighting mechanics deeply ingrained into the game. Rather than working with those aspects to further improve the main gameplay loop. Hell, I'm willing to be money there'd be more room for the niche weapons out there if they did that. Gives more wiggle room to do something with them. Rather than how it is now where a lot of guns could simply poof from existence and no one would really notice. 

[Sophiie 50]

Bring back RTW TTK. It was amazing, and I never liked how APB was turned into a twitchy TPS.

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

This sh*t again? Havent we been through this already? The result was total disaster. DISASTER. Yes, G1 has added districts with RTWs TTK in the past, and it was boring as hell and nobody played it at the end.
Current average TTK 0.7-0.8s is perfect compromise between reflex skills, and tracking skills, not speaking of TTK in practice that is ofter 2-3s long.

I would like to see LOs version of gunplay tho. Just like G1 took RTWs weapons and reworked it into this that I consider being perfect, I would like to see LOs rework of gunplay as a whole.

[Nitronik 348]

On 10/3/2018 at 4:19 PM, BrandonBranderson said:

I had a feeling the test districts were sabotaged by Qwentle, and this just strengthens my theory.  Thanks for explaining it in more detail.  I wonder if he's one of the devs LO has been trying to pick up again?  God I hope not.  Since the game is in new hands and he isn't around to sabotage this again I'd like it if LO would consider trying it again, but actually do it right this time.  I've definitely gotten used to the gunplay after having played for this long (not saying I'm good at all though, I still suck) but I think it could only benefit the game to give it a try.
 

See, this was the problem with the botched to shit implementation of the RTW test

The very last RTW patch (which might not even have made it to live before the shutdown) actually added a lot of G1 features, namely the 100m max range standardized for all guns, recoil (your crosshair was no longer perfectly static) and a bunch of many more balance changes

had we tested that , the situation would've been a slight bit different IMO. Instead we got a botch job with percs 1shotting cars

[BlatMan 717]

With the IR change, I feel like that was a low key attempt at introducing lower TTK.

[Nitronik 348]

1 hour ago, MrsHappyPenguin said:

With the IR change, I feel like that was a low key attempt at introducing lower TTK.

most of the guns that make use of IR now have minTTK that matches that of their new range class - the NTEC with IR3 has the minTTK of a CR762 for example, while the OBIR gets sniper rifle tier TTK

[Ketog 1032]

i thought you were talking about the RTW TTK , i think this was horrible yes





but the cuttent TTK's ?  , they're viterally gone lower and lower since , why do you think the game gets slower ?

are you saying the game was better when people had unfair adventage due to exploits ?

[Mozie 54]

ok, the people who are still playing this game are the ones that enjoyed the slower ttk. caseclosed.

[Haganu 105]

I feel like the current TTK is alright, though a slight increase in TTK couldn't hurt. What's breaking most is the damage dropoff and weapon max range patch G1 introduced, where every weapon (except stabba tg8, stabba pig and osmaw) can hit up to 100m from shooting.

[EMilika 41]

RTW was crap it's like i was playing Dendy or Sega mega drive.

Edited October 5, 2018 by EMilika
Well.. as being kid at that time it was fun but when i got 144mhz monitor and new AAA games.