@LittleOrbit Scroll Wheel Shooting

[Thial]

Linking a vid so people will understand what I'm talking about instead of downvoting like children: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMDZrYOuMM

 

Hello. I would like to ask what's LO's standpoint on scroll wheel shooting @MattScott @Lixil. I'm sure you encountered those suspiciously fast and consistent fbw / oscar / obeya / temptress players at least once who clearly fire in a perfect rhythm with the fastest fire rate possible without making a single mistake ever. If you haven't heard of it scroll wheel shooting is basically firing your gun by scrolling your mouse wheel which can basically bypass the weapon jamming when you are clicking LMB too fast. Some mice also come with a feature where the mouse wheel continues to spin by itself if you spin it just once. Scroll wheel shooting essentially lets you fire the guns at maximum possible fire rate without having to put any effort into learning the fire rate of a particular gun or practicing clicking fast or in a rhythm. The outcome is basically like the one when you are using a macro to shoot therefore imo scroll wheel shooting should be considered as cheating. Massive amount of people is using it even right now. Some people even streaming while using it. Imho it gives you the same unfair advantage as a macro and something should be done about it. What do you guys think ?

 

TL:DR:

One of my biggest concerns are that scroll wheel shooting lets you skip a really big part of the learning curve which is learning the guns, specific fire rates. Learning how to click fast and how to click in a perfect rhythm. Another big concern is that even after thousands of hours in APB you still won't be able to shoot as perfectly as scroll wheel shooting allows you to. People make mistakes and it's humanly impossible to have that perfect fastest fire rate all the time with every gun. While scroll wheel lets you achieve that with ease. And that gives you an advantage in battles if you are able to fire your guns as fast as possible every single time.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Thial

[CookiePuss]

I would have a hard time saying something you can set up using the in game options is cheating.

That being said, scroll wheel OSCAR is OP.

Perfect fire rate every time.

[iPlumbum]

I believe macro shooting and the likes are already bannable in the ToS.

 

Its just not enforced as much as it should be.

[Kiida]

I used to scrollwheel shoot the FBW and OSCAR way back. It's not really an advantage, often the opposite as it made aiming slightly more shaky.

[Thial]

2 minutes ago, Kiida said:

I used to scrollwheel shoot the FBW and OSCAR way back. It's not really an advantage, often the opposite as it made aiming slightly more shaky.

I'm pretty sure that if you will keep practicing the shaky aim will eventually disappear and all you will end up with will be essentially a legit macro.

[Alani]

I don't get the point of these stupid question threads.

 

Isn't there a thread based around asking stupid questions like these made by Little Orbit themselves?

 

The fact you are complaining about changing the maps of your keyboard controls is stupid enough.

[Thial]

1 minute ago, Obvious Lesbian said:

I don't get the point of these stupid question threads.

 

Isn't there a thread based around asking stupid questions like these made by Little Orbit themselves?

 

The fact you are complaining about changing the maps of your keyboard controls is stupid enough.

1. Asking questions is not stupid.
2. Yes go ahead and post a question in that heavily spammed thread and see how many people will respond to it.

3. The fact you don't see a difference between a keyboard and mouse is stupid enough.

[Alani]

Just now, Thial said:

1. Asking questions is not stupid.
2. Yes go ahead and post a question in that heavily spammed thread and see how many people will respond to it.

3. The fact you don't see a difference between a keyboard and mouse is stupid enough.

 

• I can do bullets too
• No one said asking questions are dumb. don't be butthurt.
• They actually read through the thread, and I am sure they would ignore this question.
• Remapping your control scheme is completely fine. I do not understand your reasoning as to why the difference between a keyboard and mouse is mentioned.
• duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr?????????????????

[neophobia]

It's more of a voluntary nerf honestly

 

but I guess the term cheating doesn't mean it makes you better

[Thial]

1 minute ago, Obvious Lesbian said:

 

• I can do bullets too
• No one said asking questions are dumb. don't be butthurt.
• They actually read through the thread, and I am sure they would ignore this question.
• Remapping your control scheme is completely fine. I do not understand your reasoning as to why the difference between a keyboard and mouse is mentioned.
• duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr?????????????????

not sure if trolling or you are just special.

[Dreadarm]

6 minutes ago, Obvious Lesbian said:

 

• I can do bullets too
• No one said asking questions are dumb. don't be butthurt.
• They actually read through the thread, and I am sure they would ignore this question.
• Remapping your control scheme is completely fine. I do not understand your reasoning as to why the difference between a keyboard and mouse is mentioned.
• duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr?????????????????

This last bullet point... should be a signature. love it!

[Thial]

4 minutes ago, neophobia said:

It's more of a voluntary nerf honestly

 

but I guess the term cheating doesn't mean it makes you better

The point is that scroll wheel shooting lets you bypass a big part of the learning curve which is learning the guns, learning how to click fast, learning how to click with a perfect rhythm. Essentially the same thing that macro does.

[Dreadarm]

Just now, Thial said:

The point is that scroll wheel shooting lets you bypass a big part of the learning curve which is learning the guns, learning how to click fast, learning how to click with a perfect rhythm. Essentially the same thing that macro does.

Work smarter not harder.

[MrBubbleTea]

Agree with this, there doesn't seem to be any logical reason as to putting the mouse wheel as the firing button except to use semi auto weapons like full auto.

[Thial]

5 minutes ago, Dreadarm said:

Work smarter not harder.

If we would be talking about actual work that would be true. Here unfortunately it's simply gaining advantage over others who decide to play the game in a legit way and spend weeks if not months learning the guns and the mechanics. Therefore as I wrote in my main post I'm asking for LO's standpoint on this. Either they will say that it's ok so everyone will be able to use it or they will say no and we will see some people getting smacked. The way you wrote it macro is also working smarter not harder right ? Skill . exe is also working smarter not harder. Why bother learning the game if you can just download cheats. Right ?

Edited June 13, 2018 by Thial

[Dreadarm]

1 minute ago, Thial said:

If we would be talking about actual work that would be true. Here unfortunately it's simply gaining advantage over others who decide to play the game in a legit way and spend weeks if not months learning the guns and the mechanics.

It is not an advantage if everyone can do it with in-game mechanics and or standard peripheral devices.

[IROCkiller]

If it's not 3rd party it's fine. You can rebind your keys, and the scroll wheel is an option. Therefore it's not cheating.

 

How can something be cheating if it's in the game?

[ExoticZ]

1. Is using scroll for shooting cheating? No, it is not.

2. Should it be dealt with? If it is a major problem, then yes.

3. Is it a major problem? No, because it gives pros and cons.

 

I've tried scroll wheeling before and practiced with it. It's very effective once you're able to aim with maximum fire rate.

IMO, even if they did remove the possibility to change the keybind of "Fire/Shoot" to either "Scroll up/down" then I would not really care. Although, I can see your point with that there is no "learning curve" to it. Learning the fire rate of each weapon can take time and skill.

[Thial]

2 minutes ago, ExoticZ said:

1. Is using scroll for shooting cheating? No, it is not.

2. Should it be dealt with? If it is a major problem, then yes.

3. Is it a major problem? No, because it gives pros and cons.

 

I've tried scroll wheeling before and practiced with it. It's very effective once you're able to aim with maximum fire rate.

IMO, even if they did remove the possibility to change the keybind of "Fire/Shoot" to either "Scroll up/down" then I would not really care. Although, I can see your point with that there is no "learning curve" to it. Learning the fire rate of each weapon can take time and skill.

I'm glad someone understands my concerns. We never really had a clear answer if scroll wheel shooting is ok. Macro is bannable and scroll wheel basically gives you the same outcome so LO's answer would be appreciated.

[StrelitziaDeWitt]

11 minutes ago, IROCkiller said:

If it's not 3rd party it's fine. You can rebind your keys, and the scroll wheel is an option. Therefore it's not cheating.

It may not be a third party tool but it is a third mouse button!

 

[Dreadarm]

4 minutes ago, AlexandraTromp said:

It may not be a third party tool but it is a third mouse button!

 

Love it, and in this spirit, EVERYTHING on your pc is third party, the hardware, the OS, the internet connection. Where does the list end! quite literally anything not created by G1/LO or YOU is 3rd party. so really everyone is cheating by the definition "no third party".

[neophobia]

22 minutes ago, Thial said:

The point is that scroll wheel shooting lets you bypass a big part of the learning curve which is learning the guns, learning how to click fast, learning how to click with a perfect rhythm. Essentially the same thing that macro does.

No, it does not let you bypass the learning curve.

The semis benefit from it - but you don't really need to learn them if you could just play any automatic weapon (or sniper) instead and those are 90% of the meta anyways. And those can just get worse by using the scrollwheel.

A macro doesn't just spam clicks. (Well - if it is a good one)

You don't tapfire by using the scrollwheel.

[Thial]

6 minutes ago, neophobia said:

No, it does not let you bypass the learning curve.

The semis benefit from it - but you don't really need to learn them if you could just play any automatic weapon (or sniper) instead and those are 90% of the meta anyways. And those can just get worse by using the scrollwheel.

A macro doesn't just spam clicks. (Well - if it is a good one)

You don't tapfire by using the scrollwheel.

You can just use both lmb and scroll wheel. I never said macro spams clicks. I only said the outcome is the same as macro. You get a perfect fire rate with every semi auto gun or even perfect tap firing with some. Fight a scroll wheel oscar, you will understand my concerns. Even if you are already a good player who knows the fire rates. Scroll wheel will still give you that extra advantage of having a perfect fire rate every single time which you won't be able to achieve naturally every single time no matter how good you are because sometimes it's a matter of milliseconds and scroll wheel will let you to maximize it every time.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Thial

[Dreadarm]

4 minutes ago, neophobia said:

No, it does not let you bypass the learning curve.

The semis benefit from it - but you don't really need to learn them if you could just play any automatic weapon (or sniper) instead and those are 90% of the meta anyways. And those can just get worse by using the scrollwheel.

A macro doesn't just spam clicks. (Well - if it is a good one)

You don't tapfire by using the scrollwheel.

You are right, and there is actually a client side bug that makes using spam macro's a problem. The bug is a screen freeze, and using a spam macro will ruin your ability to function in the game because every-time you left click/fire, it creates a small noticeable freeze in the client. This compounds dramatically when using spam macro's. In addition to this. Spam macros activate bloom. which makes any gun completely useless when spamming it too fast unless you have some kind of artificial aiming.

This is basically the reasoning that back in 2014 revomag said blatantly that Macro's do not by themselves give an advantage nor are they an exploit because they do not alter the game mechanics.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Dreadarm

[iPlumbum]

30 minutes ago, Dreadarm said:

Work smarter not harder.

Work Smarter

Aimbot instead of learning

???

Profit

Edited June 13, 2018 by iPlumbum