Would you buff Kevlar?

[Ellix 416]

Right now your best choice is just to grab Clotting Agent and be good.

But what if we gave Kevlar users a chance and buff the mod a bit so it will be used more.

 

If so in which way would you change this modification?

Personally I think Kevlar users should be a tiny bit faster.

The health buff that the mod provides doesn't guarantee that you will dodge the second/third shot that was supposed to be absorbed and instead you are just like a sitting duck.

 

Please discuss....

[Spillra 135]

Kevlar dont need a buff, its already aids

[Todesklinge 143]

I have allready created a suggestion.

There are some weapons they can ignore Kevlar.

 

Kevlar need to have about +40 - 60% HP to have a chance against Clotting Agent.

 

Clotting Agent need a massive nerf. Is is just to overpowered in every situation. But the Devs do NOTHING.

 

This is the best way to ruin the game balance.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Todesklinge

[wHisHi 206]

1 minute ago, Todesklinge said:

I have allready created a suggestion.

There are some weapons they can ignore Kevlar.

 

Kevlar need to have about +40 - 60% HP to have a chance against Clotting Agent.

 

Clotting Agent need a massive nerf. Is is just to overpowered in every situation. But the Devs do NOTHING.

 

This is the best way to ruin the game balance.

Its not overpowered. 1. Take a cover and you are fine. 2. Its way to easy to nade kevlar guy, he is just too slow to run. 3. You run slow, that can be crutial in situations there you need to get out asap.

To OP: yes ofcourse but I cant think of good buff for it.

[Todesklinge 143]

Kevlas decreasing movement speed is a two way downside.

You can easy killed by car.

 

Clotting Agent is the only mod that have no downside, thats why CA is the most used mod.

[Nagletz 219]

Just speed penalty, and nothing more.

[Resine 144]

Yes, no use uses it but cause no one likes speed penalty in so fast peaced game. Remove speed penalty, switch it to recovery time speed penalty that is even more aggressive than it is on CA

[PingOVER9000 189]

Clotting agent 3 is too good and reduce the effectivness of several weapons... it  need da slighty nerf adding 1 second... the regeneration may increase delay from 1.6 to 2.6 for a first test?

 

it's YEARS since someone is making this suggestion in forum and we may have a lot of weapons balanced with this change, Fr0G, Scout (for me it wasnt necessary the last change and actual one I retain it is a slighty nerf... REVERT IT?), NSSW etc..

 

Anyway, after the healing spray adjustment, kevlar (2) become a good combo with it, work well in 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3, not a lot in 6vs 6, it's just a situational mod and work quite well in CQC, maybe in case clotting agent 3 is still predominant after a nerf, I would like to test or see something like that below maybe?

 

- Kevlar 2

 

EFFECTS

DescriptionMultiplierAddType

+20% player health1.2000.00028

-20% sprint 

-10% run speed                 REMOVE or pass it to 5% speed ????

 

- Kevlar 3

 

+30% player  health1.3000.00028

-20% sprint 

-20% run speed  CHANGE to -10%/ 5%  ???

 

Anyway, Before to increase anything about health or make other change  , I prefer to being a little cautios because as I told before consumables has a interesting synergy with kevlar.

 

 

[KnifuWaifu 499]

I hate yes/no.

 

I think I said it ages ago - but I wouldn't buff Kevlar directly, I'd just keep going on the tiers, bring out some Kev IV, Kev V, Kev XX. 

 

Give me that 1000% HP and 0% movement.

 

 

But really I wouldn't mind seeing the game if they kept going up the tiers on mods.

[vsb 6174]

2 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

Clotting Agent is the only mod that have no downside

clotting agent has a downside

 

for kevlar:

-change the flat hp increase to a percentage based incoming damage reduction

-remove the run speed penalty

-decrease the sprint speed penalty to 10% / 15% / 20% for kevlar 1 / 2 / 3 respectively

[Frosi 722]

With the way things are currently absolutely not. If you like it or not the game has been balanced around Clotting Agent for many years, even prior to LO taking over, if Kevlar were to become Meta the way things are right now it would throw all this balance out of the window and make the game even slower. APB's movement is fantastic, any downside to movement speed will put you at a disadvantage in many scenarios. Kevlar also has recieved a somewhat direct buff with the buff to Med Spray, having instant regen that twice as fast syngerizes really well and it is on a low cooldown on top of that.

 

I think in an ideal world Clotting agent and base regen should be looked at in a way that doesn't change how the regen speeds etc work currently. What I mean with this is to take the route of making CA2 (Currently the fastest regen in the game) the BASE regen, this is to primarily help out new players. On top of that Clotting Agent 3 simply turns into "Clotting Agent", this would mean that a lot of math would have to be done to keep CA3's regen speeds the same as it is now due to the base regen being the equivalent to CA2 now. This work however would free up a lot of potential buffs to underused green mods to not necessarily make them become meta but put them in a more healthy spot compared to Clotting Agent. 

 

APB is a fast paced game and the base regen is incredibly slow and I think this is where the primary issues with Kevlar / Fragile / Flak Jacket lies, however, lets say CA2 regen speed was the baseline, this would obviously be too much, however, this way they could apply multiple changes to Kevlar for example without having to almost remove the downside of Kevlar which is the movement speed. Here's an example of what I mean.

 

Currently Kevlar 3 gives you the following stats:

 

+30% Player Health (1300)

-20% Sprint Speed

-20% Run Speed

 

With CA2 being the baseline you not only help the new player experience but also open yourself up to giving Kevlar a slight buff by adjusting its regen time to be somewhere around CA1 right now. (Theoretical nerf because CA2 is baseline but having the fastest regen in the game on top of 30% health would be broken.)

 

So a buffed Kevlar could look like this:

 

+30% Player Health (1300)

-12% Sprint Speed

-12% Run Speed

~Regen Values: Clotting Agent 2 > Clotting Agent 1 

 

This is technically already possible but my approach would tackle a few issues all at once, namely balance issues with Green mods, New Player Experience and Item Bloat. 

 

There's a lot in this approach that would have to be thought through such as the math behind the whole thing and what to do with other mods but balancing the underused green mods is not an easy task and one would have to be extremely careful with what exactly is done because on paper mods like Kevlar being strong or possibly too strong could quickly end up as a terrible feeling for actual gameplay mainly because of weapon balance but also gameplay flow, muscle memory and game sense being thrown out of the window, however, if executed well the way all levels of Clotting Agent behave the exact same way and other green mods could have a slightly increased regen.

[claude 223]

6 hours ago, Ellix said:

Right now your best choice is just to grab Clotting Agent and be good.

But what if we gave Kevlar users a chance and buff the mod a bit so it will be used more.

 

If so in which way would you change this modification?

Personally I think Kevlar users should be a tiny bit faster.

The health buff that the mod provides doesn't guarantee that you will dodge the second/third shot that was supposed to be absorbed and instead you are just like a sitting duck.

 

Please discuss....

or just change clotting to make the other mods appealing.

 

idk why we love making balancing suggestions around clotting, and the last thing I'd want to do is change kevlar just so that it can be on-par or competitive with clotting. lowering the movement speed penalty from where it is right now will just make it too good, and if you choose to buff kev 3s damage reduction, you're just gonna fuck with a ton of weapons TTKs. also, dont feel like playing on offense against people defending objectives (where they dont really have to move at all) who have a mod equipped that pretty much guarantees my death as long as they dont suck.

5 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

Kevlar need to have about +40 - 60% HP to have a chance against Clotting Agent.

 

Fantastic Idea!

Edited October 2, 2020 by claude

[GhosT 1301]

5 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

I have allready created a suggestion.

There are some weapons they can ignore Kevlar.

 

Kevlar need to have about +40 - 60% HP to have a chance against Clotting Agent.

 

Clotting Agent need a massive nerf. Is is just to overpowered in every situation. But the Devs do NOTHING.

 

This is the best way to ruin the game balance.

 

I agree, your suggestions are the best way to ruin the game balance.

[PingOVER9000 189]

2 hours ago, Frosi said:

With the way things are currently absolutely not. If you like it or not the game has been balanced around Clotting Agent for many years, even prior to LO taking over, if Kevlar were to become Meta the way things are right now it would throw all this balance out of the window and make the game even slower. APB's movement is fantastic, any downside to movement speed will put you at a disadvantage in many scenarios. Kevlar also has recieved a somewhat direct buff with the buff to Med Spray, having instant regen that twice as fast syngerizes really well and it is on a low cooldown on top of that.

 

I think in an ideal world Clotting agent and base regen should be looked at in a way that doesn't change how the regen speeds etc work currently. What I mean with this is to take the route of making CA2 (Currently the fastest regen in the game) the BASE regen, this is to primarily help out new players. On top of that Clotting Agent 3 simply turns into "Clotting Agent", this would mean that a lot of math would have to be done to keep CA3's regen speeds the same as it is now due to the base regen being the equivalent to CA2 now. This work however would free up a lot of potential buffs to underused green mods to not necessarily make them become meta but put them in a more healthy spot compared to Clotting Agent. 

 

APB is a fast paced game and the base regen is incredibly slow and I think this is where the primary issues with Kevlar / Fragile / Flak Jacket lies, however, lets say CA2 regen speed was the baseline, this would obviously be too much, however, this way they could apply multiple changes to Kevlar for example without having to almost remove the downside of Kevlar which is the movement speed. Here's an example of what I mean.

 

Currently Kevlar 3 gives you the following stats:

 

+30% Player Health (1300)

-20% Sprint Speed

-20% Run Speed

 

With CA2 being the baseline you not only help the new player experience but also open yourself up to giving Kevlar a slight buff by adjusting its regen time to be somewhere around CA1 right now. (Theoretical nerf because CA2 is baseline but having the fastest regen in the game on top of 30% health would be broken.)

 

So a buffed Kevlar could look like this:

 

+30% Player Health (1300)

-12% Sprint Speed

-12% Run Speed

~Regen Values: Clotting Agent 2 > Clotting Agent 1 

 

This is technically already possible but my approach would tackle a few issues all at once, namely balance issues with Green mods, New Player Experience and Item Bloat. 

 

There's a lot in this approach that would have to be thought through such as the math behind the whole thing and what to do with other mods but balancing the underused green mods is not an easy task and one would have to be extremely careful with what exactly is done because on paper mods like Kevlar being strong or possibly too strong could quickly end up as a terrible feeling for actual gameplay mainly because of weapon balance but also gameplay flow, muscle memory and game sense being thrown out of the window, however, if executed well the way all levels of Clotting Agent behave the exact same way and other green mods could have a slightly increased regen.

 

I like it... I have a good feeling about this.. 

I have some question Rosi:

 

-In your opinion,  the actual delay of starting regeneration of CA3 is 1.6 seconds, for mechanics and weapon balancing  as I wrote above, may it worth to  switch in 2.6 seconds? In your opinion may we resolve just adding one second some weapon balance issue?

 

- About Fragile what are your thought Rosi, do you have some plan?

Sincerly I am not so dissapointed for how it is , but I would like to see it with JUST little buff to normal run speed  (also at the cost of a little less health), I dont  know I have always feel it missing something little with this mod.

 

 

[Frosi 722]

19 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

-In your opinion,  the actual delay of starting regeneration of CA3 is 1.6 seconds, for mechanics and weapon balancing  as I wrote above, may it worth to  switch in 2.6 seconds? In your opinion may we resolve just adding one second some weapon balance issue?

Adding an additional second in a game like APB where guns kill in under a second on average could slow down gameplay some more, on paper I don't think adding an extra second would be a huge change but at the same time I don't think it would be a good thing for the game either. 

 

To an extend the reality is that Clotting Agent has always been the go to and as such was the game balanced around it so you wouldn't want to change something people are accustomed to just so other things that they might not enjoy as much are more viable. 

 

24 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

- About Fragile what are your thought Rosi, do you have some plan?

I think Fragile could stay the same as it does right now but retaining the Clotting Agent 2 regen speed that would be baseline. Because most guns will require 1 less shot to kill on a Fragile player, having that faster regen doesn't sound like something that would be too strong.

[illgot 379]

7 hours ago, Boxo said:

Kevlar dont need a buff, its already aids

I'm not sure I understand this.

Anyone wearing Kevlar is basically a free kill.

 

Kevlar should be slower to start running then speed up to normal run speed after 2-3 seconds.  The permanently slow part kills the mod.

Edited October 2, 2020 by illgot

[Frosi 722]

14 minutes ago, illgot said:

Anyone wearing Kevlar is basically a free kill.

Not necessarily no, I think this idea of Kevlar players being free kills stems more from the fact that Kevlar is a "noob trap" right now more than anything else, if you've ever seen an actual good if not top player play around Kevlar it is quite disgusting. There are many things in APB that can fill out the weak spots that come with Kevlar and especially on defense or if played around a car Kevlar becomes absurdly strong but again, there's very few players that can actually show you how strong it is because generally seen CA is the better option for MOST scenarios.

[Senodus 49]

4 hours ago, Frosi said:

With the way things are currently absolutely not. If you like it or not the game has been balanced around Clotting Agent for many years, even prior to LO taking over, if Kevlar were to become Meta the way things are right now it would throw all this balance out of the window and make the game even slower. APB's movement is fantastic, any downside to movement speed will put you at a disadvantage in many scenarios. Kevlar also has recieved a somewhat direct buff with the buff to Med Spray, having instant regen that twice as fast syngerizes really well and it is on a low cooldown on top of that.

 

I think in an ideal world Clotting agent and base regen should be looked at in a way that doesn't change how the regen speeds etc work currently. What I mean with this is to take the route of making CA2 (Currently the fastest regen in the game) the BASE regen, this is to primarily help out new players. On top of that Clotting Agent 3 simply turns into "Clotting Agent", this would mean that a lot of math would have to be done to keep CA3's regen speeds the same as it is now due to the base regen being the equivalent to CA2 now. This work however would free up a lot of potential buffs to underused green mods to not necessarily make them become meta but put them in a more healthy spot compared to Clotting Agent. 

 

APB is a fast paced game and the base regen is incredibly slow and I think this is where the primary issues with Kevlar / Fragile / Flak Jacket lies, however, lets say CA2 regen speed was the baseline, this would obviously be too much, however, this way they could apply multiple changes to Kevlar for example without having to almost remove the downside of Kevlar which is the movement speed. Here's an example of what I mean.

 

Currently Kevlar 3 gives you the following stats:

 

+30% Player Health (1300)

-20% Sprint Speed

-20% Run Speed

 

With CA2 being the baseline you not only help the new player experience but also open yourself up to giving Kevlar a slight buff by adjusting its regen time to be somewhere around CA1 right now. (Theoretical nerf because CA2 is baseline but having the fastest regen in the game on top of 30% health would be broken.)

 

So a buffed Kevlar could look like this:

 

+30% Player Health (1300)

-12% Sprint Speed

-12% Run Speed

~Regen Values: Clotting Agent 2 > Clotting Agent 1 

 

This is technically already possible but my approach would tackle a few issues all at once, namely balance issues with Green mods, New Player Experience and Item Bloat. 

 

There's a lot in this approach that would have to be thought through such as the math behind the whole thing and what to do with other mods but balancing the underused green mods is not an easy task and one would have to be extremely careful with what exactly is done because on paper mods like Kevlar being strong or possibly too strong could quickly end up as a terrible feeling for actual gameplay mainly because of weapon balance but also gameplay flow, muscle memory and game sense being thrown out of the window, however, if executed well the way all levels of Clotting Agent behave the exact same way and other green mods could have a slightly increased regen.

Damn I actually love this idea. The current base regen is horribly slow so this would make the new player experience much better. 

[PingOVER9000 189]

1 hour ago, Frosi said:

Adding an additional second in a game like APB where guns kill in under a second on average could slow down gameplay some more, on paper I don't think adding an extra second would be a huge change but at the same time I don't think it would be a good thing for the game either. 

 

To an extend the reality is that Clotting Agent has always been the go to and as such was the game balanced around it so you wouldn't want to change something people are accustomed to just so other things that they might not enjoy as much are more viable. 

If I am not wrong CA3 work like:

 

- 1.6 delay

- then grossly 8/10 seconds for reaching 1000 health

 

Trying to explain me better.... The idea I was thinking it maybe increase the delay before starting the regeration of 1 second (or also 0.5/0.6 may be better, 2.1 or 2.2 seconds sound fair ) and this 1 second added may be removed at the time of regeneration for speeding it and maybe also adjust the regeneration time making it more plain?

 

Then for what I remind,the regenation time is not so square ( I mean it's not always 8/10 seconds), If I am right it still like in the video below, anyway that 1.6 s is very short  and the regeneration of CA3 is speeder when u receive low/ mid damage in the health than heavy damage, giving problems to some weapon under the Weapon's Curves, medium/ slow firespeed and without a so high overdamage such as Frog, RSA (one of main matters  because this weapon will not shine....), old scout (that still in my weak opinion doesnt need any change..) , NSSW in a certain way etc

 

About the Video Below:

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Frosi said:

Adding an additional second in a game like APB where guns kill in under a second

 

.....

I guess we both know it's ""kinda  possible, but rare"" for several variabilities you may kill or get killed by someone in 1 second or less is not excatly so often, and I guess we are of the same opinion that's not for what this mod was created... then if you think it may be bad for the game either,  but at this point... why getting so much effort for re-balance the mods (and weapons ) if the idea is from the beginning is having CA3 always better than other mods and at the center of the game for other changes with weapons, mechanics etc?

 

In paper a TTK of 1s and less is possible, but pratically we are from the 2 seconds to above, so that the reason I would like you give a thought about it, startint the delay at least from 2.00 second or above.

 

Then from what I understood the main game shall be going around a "permanent CA2" not a CA3... or I misunderstood something around?

2 hours ago, Frosi said:

I think Fragile could stay the same as it does right now but retaining the Clotting Agent 2 regen speed that would be baseline. Because most guns will require 1 less shot to kill on a Fragile player, having that faster regen doesn't sound like something that would be too strong.

 

Nice, I like it...

Then I guess in case is too strong, it may reversed at a regeneration of CA1... anyway nice thought Frosi, I really appreciate this idea, keep it on.

[HNY- 23]

Oh jesus christ... Don't tell me this aids is already not OP enough to ruin a 1v1 against Kev3 + OCA + Perc...

Seriously. Try improving your shooting skills instead of suggesting to be turned into a very mobile giant.

[PoshDoll 93]

it needs a rework not a buff. needs to be designed in some other way. useless as it is, op when buffed. 

 

my suggestion would be remove taken damage but reduce outgoing damage as well.

[R3ACT3M 489]

imagine if this game had a bullet pen system so kev would protect against lower caliber bullets

[Zolerox 564]

As someone who actually uses kevlar alot (instead of just using theories) it actually does need work,

 

2 more shots to kill is nothing to someone with a 45. pmg or literally any gun that has more than 10 bullets (oca pmg obeya etc)

 

Even the JG/CSG can 2 shot someone with kevlar 3 at point blank range (rifleing 3 means 7 meters fyi) 30% hp isn't that much when you compare clotting 3's hp/sec regen to kevlar 3's 30/ more hp which alot of high damage weapons ignore anyway not to mention it makes it ALOT easier to stun you.

 

I'd buff the hp slightly and lower the speed penalty, speed isn't the way to balance it when most of the time "corner camping" is the way to kill someone in apb kevlar 3 just ensures you'll win most of the surprise fights, Spawning 200 meters away with kevlar 3 isn't fun.

 

Clotting 3's "delay" is fine but the amount of hp you heal per second you start healing instantly is obsurd (scout users know the feeling the extra 50 damage should have made that less common but still)

Clotting 2's balanced just right but 3 is meta for a reason Fighting someone who has yet to start healing while you started the second they reloaded means you win most of your fights.

 

tl;dr kevlar 3 user, Yes it needs a buff/rework that "30% op health" is alot harder to use than non users realise still getting min ttk by oca's at 15 meters.

 

 

[R3ACT3M 489]

it would be cool if kev was more like a juggernaut, way more health way less movement. Make kev 4 like walking speed but you can just soak up bullets.

[Fortune Runner 796]

I personally do not believe a buff is a good idea

 

I do have a  suggestion of how if LO makes a temp mod for testing that expires and is removed later that  tweaks to mods can be done with a dummy mod that will be set to expire expire and be removed from a server update

This way IF and i stress IF LO wants to test tweaks on mods  then this may make things easier.