Anti-Cheat Discussion

[Motorola 107]

idk why but the "best" players are never around on patch days, i wonder why. 

[wHisHi 206]

8 hours ago, Motorola said:

idk why but the "best" players are never around on patch days, i wonder why. 

Haha good insight

[R3ACT3M 489]

Just remove anti cheat honestly, the hackusators are the soldiers of anti cheat

[Letter 25]

I got 48 hours account suspension 2 months later (!) after I was in a group with this overly efficient random player (I have played 2-3 matches monthly, at best - so I remember them all). Or maybe after I've used newly acquired Ogre to obliterate a random 5* player who attempted to shoot me while I was transporting a stolen car to the garage. Apparently LO support decided I am a cheater too, somehow (having K/D ratio like 1:4 kek)

 

Now I'm too afraid to leave social district - to avoid losing my premium guns collection to an unjustified ban. Outside of market trades the game is pretty much over. Any clarification / assurance the devs don't ban me out of the blue while testing yet another inept anti-cheat?

 

(account is from 2013 btw)

Edited October 2, 2020 by Letter

[vsb 6174]

38 minutes ago, Letter said:

I got 48 hours account suspension 2 months later (!) after I was in a group with this overly efficient random player (I have played 2-3 matches monthly, at best - so I remember them all). Or maybe after I've used newly acquired Ogre to obliterate a random 5* player who attempted to shoot me while I was transporting a stolen car to the garage. Apparently LO support decided I am a cheater too, somehow (having K/D ratio like 1:4 kek)

afaik temp bans aren't handed out for cheating but for more minor tos violations like griefing, harassment, hate speech, etc

[CookiePuss 5382]

1 hour ago, Letter said:

I got 48 hours account suspension 2 months later (!) after I was in a group with this overly efficient random player (I have played 2-3 matches monthly, at best - so I remember them all). Or maybe after I've used newly acquired Ogre to obliterate a random 5* player who attempted to shoot me while I was transporting a stolen car to the garage. Apparently LO support decided I am a cheater too, somehow (having K/D ratio like 1:4 kek)

 

Now I'm too afraid to leave social district - to avoid losing my premium guns collection to an unjustified ban. Outside of market trades the game is pretty much over. Any clarification / assurance the devs don't ban me out of the blue while testing yet another inept anti-cheat?

 

(account is from 2013 

This is an issue for support and not the forums. 

No one here knows the details of your temp ban, and no reason to take you at your word. 

Not to mention no one here can help you anyways. 

[Cuve 244]

Insane how there's people getting Muted in-game by a GM for "name shaming" people that have been blatantly cheating and have plenty of banned accounts, whilst these individuals are appearing in everyone's stream just walking towards where people spawn, snapping all over the place and are speed-hacking... It's unbelievable.
Why is nothing being done what so ever, Waterfront right now as I type this is a living hell, but I can't give names because of name shaming. All I can do is send a support ticket or use the report system in-game which feels utterly useless.
When they finally get banned they just create a new account and continue what they've been doing  Battle Eye is just a Joke.

[Darkzero3802 614]

2 hours ago, Cuve said:

Insane how there's people getting Muted in-game by a GM for "name shaming" people that have been blatantly cheating and have plenty of banned accounts, whilst these individuals are appearing in everyone's stream just walking towards where people spawn, snapping all over the place and are speed-hacking... It's unbelievable.
Why is nothing being done what so ever, Waterfront right now as I type this is a living hell, but I can't give names because of name shaming. All I can do is send a support ticket or use the report system in-game which feels utterly useless.
When they finally get banned they just create a new account and continue what they've been doing  Battle Eye is just a Joke.

The in game report system is useless. You get an auto generated reply with no actions taken as months later these ppl are still around. GMs are as much of a joke as the in game system, they are never around in the single populated district and as you said you cant bring attention to anyone cause name and shame. And to complete the trifecta BE is a joke as since its return there are more noticeable hackers in game. Wonder why Jericho now barely gets 100 players.

[Hexerin 1142]

6 hours ago, Cuve said:

Battle Eye is just a Joke.

Always has been. It's also the source of a whole slew of client performance and gameplay behavior issues (just like it was before).

[Resine 144]

I feel like, lately game is full of trash.

[Cr0 328]

I have to say I've noticed a slow growth of the number of cheaters, at least in fightclub, since BE was reintroduced. Often there are multiple on each side, sort of triggering each other to toggle harder and harder until they are just being ridiculous, on both sides. I do not understand how it's possible that veteran players say they hardly ever see a single cheater anymore. I literally don't understand why they are saying that, because the situation is so clear.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Cr0

[Hexerin 1142]

10 minutes ago, Cr0 said:

I do not understand how it's possible that veteran players say they hardly ever see a single cheater anymore. I literally don't understand why they are saying that, because the situation is so clear.

A few of the veteran players were closet cheaters at one point or another (back when the game was still popular/populated), so for those might just be some kind of sense of obligation to not blow the whistle on others or something along those lines.

 

As for the rest... they just enjoy watching the game's corpse burn. All it takes is observing their behavior here on the forums to realize that.

[Uhtdred 240]

BattleEye is so good that former cheaters won't play APB again....

[Darkzero3802 614]

7 hours ago, Resine said:

I feel like, lately game is full of trash.

Its been that way for many yrs

5 hours ago, Cr0 said:

I have to say I've noticed a slow growth of the number of cheaters, at least in fightclub, since BE was reintroduced. Often there are multiple on each side, sort of triggering each other to toggle harder and harder until they are just being ridiculous, on both sides. I do not understand how it's possible that veteran players say they hardly ever see a single cheater anymore. I literally don't understand why they are saying that, because the situation is so clear.

As Hex said, most vets were or still are closets and by the cheats being discovered that means they actually have to put effort into being gud. Most of these vets lack the skill so cheats are used as compensation. It straight up toxicity and ego stroking.

5 hours ago, Hexerin said:

A few of the veteran players were closet cheaters at one point or another (back when the game was still popular/populated), so for those might just be some kind of sense of obligation to not blow the whistle on others or something along those lines.

 

As for the rest... they just enjoy watching the game's corpse burn. All it takes is observing their behavior here on the forums to realize that.

Id have to say closets are still alive and well and as I said above they are protecting themselves so they dont have to show just how bad they really are. Alot of the ppl who say it isnt an issue are also forum and or social warriors who dont actually play the game and dont care about the game anymore.

[FakeBungo 248]

make the people who want to play the game into moderators, not the people who want to moderate people (ie people with furry avatars)

[TzickyT 212]

Yesterday i saw a cheater on Twitch Speedhack or speed Glitch on the server. 

 

becous of the name shaming im not going to tell the name of that person. but i going to conferm i have reported that person to twitch.

 

i wonder what the take is going to be for the people view this game as a wonderfull place and see that peopel like that just create an account and cheat on them... get kicked from the server or banned manualy and come back to the server 10 minuts later with a new character. 

 

clearly i am doubting the work of Battle eye on this moment. we all can see that cheaters are relevent to the population and that cheaters are running around on the servers. I just would like a confermation on maybe a seasonal topic that LO is actively working on a solution or actively banning people from the game. 

 

my doubts in battle eye just demish as well as the activity of cheaters right now.

[OdomizavK 1]

I personally have always been surprised by the behavior of some of the" fathers " of the game, go to Abington, play 2-3 rounds at 30-5, 40-5, and then sharply 10-15. It's simple, cheat (triggerbot) on and off for balance)))

[R3ACT3M 489]

On 12/2/2020 at 2:02 AM, TzickyT said:

Yesterday i saw a cheater on Twitch Speedhack or speed Glitch on the server. 

 

becous of the name shaming im not going to tell the name of that person. but i going to conferm i have reported that person to twitch.

 

i wonder what the take is going to be for the people view this game as a wonderfull place and see that peopel like that just create an account and cheat on them... get kicked from the server or banned manualy and come back to the server 10 minuts later with a new character. 

 

clearly i am doubting the work of Battle eye on this moment. we all can see that cheaters are relevent to the population and that cheaters are running around on the servers. I just would like a confermation on maybe a seasonal topic that LO is actively working on a solution or actively banning people from the game. 

 

my doubts in battle eye just demish as well as the activity of cheaters right now.

id say

 

do a 4 strikes you're out

Strike 1: maybe a 2 day suspension (this way you can get in contact with support and hopefully resolve the issue)

Strike 2: A month

Strike 3: Account ban

Strike 4: IP ban 

I guess the hope is that Strike 4, would once and for all remove the cheater on the 4th strike. Because otherwise they would have to use a VPN (i think) in order to bypass the ban which could potentially make people see it as not worth it to cheat at that point.

I personally don't see a lot of cheaters, and like to believe it's just weapon balance that makes it seem like others are cheating. Again (im not point at who im quoting XD) if you think you see a cheater, just report them. Hackusating won't fix the problem.

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

26 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

id say

 

do a 4 strikes you're out

Strike 1: maybe a 2 day suspension (this way you can get in contact with support and hopefully resolve the issue)

Strike 2: A month

Strike 3: Account ban

Strike 4: IP ban 

I guess the hope is that Strike 4, would once and for all remove the cheater on the 4th strike. Because otherwise they would have to use a VPN (i think) in order to bypass the ban which could potentially make people see it as not worth it to cheat at that point.

I personally don't see a lot of cheaters, and like to believe it's just weapon balance that makes it seem like others are cheating. Again (im not point at who im quoting XD) if you think you see a cheater, just report them. Hackusating won't fix the problem.

Problem with account bans and IP for that matter is that those measures are easy to get around. There are a ton of VPN providers with over 5000+ connections/IPs, good luck trying to ban every single IP in existence from that VPN.

But you're absolutely right on that people have a very lacking skill in determining humane ability from one that is tool assisted, personally don't think this is weapon balance stuff it's just that there are a lot of veterans from years around.

(speculation) The amount of "real cheaters" is very low and some of them always for some reason tend to stream this Live as well. My fear is that I have seen people that actually wish APB would die entirely. No more game servers online and unable to play, some of those people go really far and even seem to attack the servers like before they switched over to the new host and I assume the last server-lagging problems were from the same source. I don't understand why someone would do something that is a criminal act against a video game.

[Darkzero3802 614]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:02 AM, TzickyT said:

Yesterday i saw a cheater on Twitch Speedhack or speed Glitch on the server. 

 

becous of the name shaming im not going to tell the name of that person. but i going to conferm i have reported that person to twitch.

 

i wonder what the take is going to be for the people view this game as a wonderfull place and see that peopel like that just create an account and cheat on them... get kicked from the server or banned manualy and come back to the server 10 minuts later with a new character. 

 

clearly i am doubting the work of Battle eye on this moment. we all can see that cheaters are relevent to the population and that cheaters are running around on the servers. I just would like a confermation on maybe a seasonal topic that LO is actively working on a solution or actively banning people from the game. 

 

my doubts in battle eye just demish as well as the activity of cheaters right now.

Thats the reason why BE was removed awhile back it was easy to get around (also with a lack of support staff side). As soon as LO returned to BE ppl stopped playing en mass cause they know the floodgates reopened. Anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or part of the problem.

On 12/2/2020 at 6:18 AM, OdomizavK said:

I personally have always been surprised by the behavior of some of the" fathers " of the game, go to Abington, play 2-3 rounds at 30-5, 40-5, and then sharply 10-15. It's simple, cheat (triggerbot) on and off for balance)))

Yup its called closeting, something LO has yet to do anything to prevent and has been around since forever.

20 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

id say

 

do a 4 strikes you're out

Strike 1: maybe a 2 day suspension (this way you can get in contact with support and hopefully resolve the issue)

Strike 2: A month

Strike 3: Account ban

Strike 4: IP ban 

I guess the hope is that Strike 4, would once and for all remove the cheater on the 4th strike. Because otherwise they would have to use a VPN (i think) in order to bypass the ban which could potentially make people see it as not worth it to cheat at that point.

I personally don't see a lot of cheaters, and like to believe it's just weapon balance that makes it seem like others are cheating. Again (im not point at who im quoting XD) if you think you see a cheater, just report them. Hackusating won't fix the problem.

19 hours ago, KyoukiDotExe said:

Problem with account bans and IP for that matter is that those measures are easy to get around. There are a ton of VPN providers with over 5000+ connections/IPs, good luck trying to ban every single IP in existence from that VPN.

But you're absolutely right on that people have a very lacking skill in determining humane ability from one that is tool assisted, personally don't think this is weapon balance stuff it's just that there are a lot of veterans from years around.

(speculation) The amount of "real cheaters" is very low and some of them always for some reason tend to stream this Live as well. My fear is that I have seen people that actually wish APB would die entirely. No more game servers online and unable to play, some of those people go really far and even seem to attack the servers like before they switched over to the new host and I assume the last server-lagging problems were from the same source. I don't understand why someone would do something that is a criminal act against a video game.

Heres how you fix that, bar any VPN connections. You either have to connect without a VPN or your not allowed to log in or view the site. A simple universal fix that other countries already use.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

13 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

 

Heres how you fix that, bar any VPN connections. You either have to connect without a VPN or your not allowed to log in or view the site. A simple universal fix that other countries already use.

This last part was a funnee joke right?

[Hexerin 1142]

Account ban: Brb, creating new account.

IP ban: Brb, restarting my modem.

HWID ban: Brb, spoofing a new HWID.

 

All of which only take like 5-10 minutes, at which point the cheater is right back ingame doing things cheaters do.

 

There is, always has been, and always will be, only one solution to cheating (in any game, not just APB). Active ingame moderation by paid and trained individuals, who are also subject to oversight to prevent abuse of power. Of course, we'll never see this, because no modern game developer/publisher is willing to do it. Thus, cheating will continue to be a rampant problem.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Hexerin

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Account ban: Brb, creating new account.

IP ban: Brb, restarting my modem.

HWID ban: Brb, spoofing a new HWID.

 

All of which only take like 5-10 minutes, at which point the cheater is right back ingame doing things cheaters do.

 

There is, always has been, and always will be, only one solution to cheating (in any game, not just APB). Active ingame moderation by paid and trained individuals, who are also subject to oversight to prevent abuse of power. Of course, we'll never see this, because no modern game developer/publisher is willing to do it. Thus, cheating will continue to be a rampant problem.

  Although I like how you understand to an extend how it works, having in-game moderation won't really solve this issue. The only real way you can combat this is by having the viewpoint of suspected cheater from a 1:1 perspective of his client. Do you remember RIOT's spectate mode? You couldn't see if someone swapped camera directions which might've given them the edge to just about see that other player. You cannot tell how his spray went or what he did to combat the bloom.
Maybe if the client was able to record and send that in for a team to inspect, then maybe but that's probably mega-complex and could probably be skewed by cheaters as well by sending corrupted files or break that piece of the code.

It'll unfortunately always be a cat-and-mouse game to combat cheaters but making them have either; less profit; or less impact in the actual game would already be a huge step to discourage people from doing so if there is no real benefit to it.

4 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Heres how you fix that, bar any VPN connections. You either have to connect without a VPN or your not allowed to log in or view the site. A simple universal fix that other countries already use.

That's really not a solution. There are real players who would love to play but are blocked because of their countries preventing them to play certain services or visit certain websites they NEED VPNs to function in order to play. It's a very real thing.

[Darkzero3802 614]

On 12/4/2020 at 4:54 AM, KyoukiDotExe said:

  That's really not a solution. There are real players who would love to play but are blocked because of their countries preventing them to play certain services or visit certain websites they NEED VPNs to function in order to play. It's a very real thing.

Thats a political thing. Yes it sucks quite abit however there is bad with good and good with bad. which outweighs the other?

[vsb 6174]

4 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Thats a political thing. Yes it sucks quite abit however there is bad with good and good with bad. which outweighs the other?

preventing people who are willing to play from playing outweighs maybe (because who needs a vpn when you can just reset your router for a different ip) stopping some cheaters from rerolling

 

you dont use anticheats that false ban people even if they also ban cheaters, why would orbit choose to essentially do the same thing here?