[Discussion] More Focus on Balance (that isn't about weapons)?

[VanilleKeks 737]

Spotter

 

A free wallhack with the only downside being that you can't resupply ammo, which is useless since there are ammo boxes and car suppliers. A spotted player has no indication of the fact that he is visible to all. Only gamesense can help you.

 

Blowtorch

 

This thing can outheal 90% of the hard damage in the game. Even AV guns struggle to kill a pioneer that is being repaired by a blowtorch. In fact it isn't even worth trying to do, it's easier to just kill the blowtorch user.

 

High Burn Fuel

 

This has enabled car gameplay like no other mod. It is absolutely game breaking. Even when I'm using a conc and an ALIG, there is still more than enough time to hop out of your car and take 0 damage from it blowing up.

Even worse, you can guarantee that the remains of your car become cover by turning the driver side away from the guy trying to blow it up.

 

Remote Det

I don't mind Remote Det in Missions, but have you played Baylan recently? People just drive to the spawn points and suicide bomb you. Even if you kill the dude, remote det still works after the users death, which is just fantastic. Every couple times I spawn somewhere, I have to dodge atleast 1 or 2 remote dets before I get to shoot anyone. It's not fun.

 

Teleporting into Cars

This is the most abused "Feature" in the entire game. It is manadatory that you do this or you will never be able to compete at the higher skill tiers.

 

Pioneer/Espacio

Do I even need to say anything?

 

--

What do you want to see balanced?

 

Keks

 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by VanilleKeks

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, VanilleKeks said:

What do you want to see balanced?

 

The 4x4 vegas. While it's incredibly fun to drive and yeet around in, it's super unrealistic and doesn't fit in with all the other cars.

That and it being one of the highest HP cars in the game makes car gameplay a lot stronger than it already is. It also makes missions much easier considering how fast you can fuck off, and how many spots you can easily reach by going airborne, especially spots you shouldn't even be in.

 

If it has to stay the way it is, take away a lot of its health. Makes the regular vegas have a use again.

 

While we're at it, give us the old vegas sounds back!

[MrChan 337]

24 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Remote Det

I don't mind Remote Det in Missions, but have you played Baylan recently? People just drive to the spawn points and suicide bomb you. Even if you kill the dude, remote det still works after the users death, which is just fantastic. Every couple times I spawn somewhere, I have to dodge atleast 1 or 2 remote dets before I get to shoot anyone. It's not fun.

 

Baylan spawning is terrible generally. It was never great to begin with and with 20 v 20 instead of 16 v 16 for the past couple of years, it's just completely shite. The map is not able for that many players. You routinely have two non-red spawn options in a full district and enemies usually aren't far from one of them. Maybe if that was fixed, Remote Det would be less obnoxious.

 

That being said, I wouldn't balance a mod around Fight Club play anyway. If anything was truly broken in FC but fine in general mission play it could be disabled in FC.

 

19 minutes ago, GhosT said:

The 4x4 vegas. While it's incredibly fun to drive and yeet around in, it's super unrealistic and doesn't fit in with all the other cars.

That and it being one of the highest HP cars in the game makes car gameplay a lot stronger than it already is. It also makes missions much easier considering how fast you can fuck off, and how many spots you can easily reach by going airborne, especially spots you shouldn't even be in.

4x4 is OP as fuck. Whilst it's not the fastest in a straight line, in practical terms with handling accounted for, it's the fastest car in the game and as you say it has more HP than anything that has a chance of keeping up with it. Maybe the Rapier is faster in the right hands, I haven't driven it in a million years. But unlike the Rapier, the Vegas can tank a conc nade.

 

Cars could use a balance pass more generally. I'm not aware of a compelling reason to use anything other than the Vegas 4x4 (if you want something fast) or the Pioneer or Espacio if you want something tanky that can seat 4 and has a bit of load capacity. There's no way there's enough room in the game design for each vehicle to have a niche, but surely we can do better than 2 and a half options?

Edited March 22, 2020 by MrChan

[LilyRain 674]

16 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Spotter

The most iconic stupid-mod that was added by G1 before it ♦♣♥♠ed off. A mod that should have never existed. Delete it and don't look back. Don't even try balancing it. One does not simply balance a wall hack, period.

 

Anyone who argues against this is a little ♦♣♦♥♠ with no reflexes to rely upon.

16 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Blowtorch

Nerf its repair rate by 40%. I'd consider making it a consumable rather than an infinite mod that recharges magically with solar power or body heat.

16 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

High Burn Fuel

Another prime G1 mod that should not have existed.. the only downside to this mod is the inability to equip other purple mods. Problem is that Pioneer-users have no use for explosives 3 or fast fix chassis, so nothing to miss out here. Straight out game breaking as stated.

 

Just like spotter, delete this ♣♠♦♣♥. Don't even try fixing it. It is a stupid mod no matter what perspective you look at it with.

 

16 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Remote Det

Getting caught up by remote det can be annoying, but flak jacket is the answer. It isn't game breaking atm.

 

16 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Teleporting into Cars

This is the most abused "Feature" in the entire game. It is manadatory that you do this or you will never be able to compete at the higher skill tiers.

+1, definitely patch this.

 

16 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Pioneer/Espacio

These tanks are exceptionally fast. Considering their mass, ramming power (higher than vegas even, multiplier: 3.5 vs 2.5), total health, blast radius and cargo capacity, their top-speed on top of all of this is also ridiculous at 20.9 m/s, only 2.1 m/s slower than the fastest car in the game. Nitro makes them accelerate from a halt effortlessly. Considering the cooldown of nitro being 1 minute, the initial acceleration of these tanks is never a problem.

 

Nerf those ♣♠♦♣ers.

[iRawwwN 283]

1 hour ago, VanilleKeks said:

 

Teleporting into Cars

This is the most abused "Feature" in the entire game. It is manadatory that you do this or you will never be able to compete at the higher skill tiers.

 

 

 

 

Also, the players who abuse the warping when getting out of a vehicle that is sliding against the character... which bugs them out. Some players intentionally abuse this.

[Benguin 141]

  

  

11 minutes ago, MrChan said:

 

Baylan spawning is terrible generally. It was never great to begin with and with 20 v 20 instead of 16 v 16 for the past couple of years, it's just completely shite. The map is not able for that many players. You routinely have two non-red spawn options in a full district and enemies usually aren't far from one of them. Maybe if that was fixed, Remote Det would be less obnoxious.

 

That being said, I wouldn't balance a mod around Fight Club play anyway. If anything was truly broken in FC but fine in general mission play it could be disabled in FC.

They can easily fix that by adding concrete poles at the spawn exits, at least for the top left, bottom left and right spawns in Baylan.

Imo it still remains a cheap way to kill someone. Even if you know someone is using it you always have to be aware to not be somewhere where you can easily be trapped, and even if you aren't the chances of avoiding damage are still small. Many people also run their car next to someone, start a gun fight and if they lose they press the panic button, the guy fighting him litterally has to hide or run away in the middle of the gun fight. Just dodge it lol, good thing mostly bad players only use it.

 

I don't think Remote Detonator is the issue though, it is that you can mod your car to be a one button Chernobyl blaster

 

Flak jacket is a huge downside if you play against anyone decent, so unless they change that I don't think it is a viable option.

[TheMessiah 430]

cooldown for grenades

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

I'm still amazed that G1 not only released Remote Det with no cooldown but also didn't change it at all. And that LO still hasn't either.

[Nabiki 65]

4x4 vegas doesn't have anymore hp than a regular vegas you would need to nerf both HP's.

[GhosT 1301]

Speaking remote detonator, it's almost fine the way it is. All it needs is a cooldown timer so scrubs can't spam it.

 

Now Explosives 4 however...

[MrChan 337]

1 hour ago, Nabiki said:

4x4 vegas doesn't have anymore hp than a regular vegas you would need to nerf both HP's.

Possibly could be looked at, but the RWD Vegas is less of a problem than the 4x4. It's not as fast because of its wheelspin from a standing start and worse handling, so imo it lacks the all around dominance of the fast car 'meta' that the 4x4 has.

Edited March 22, 2020 by MrChan

[Gateron 267]

Said this for years brother they are not gonna do shit since the man that abuses everything you just claimed above has a word to say about the balances and weapons that come into the game. I won't say names but the real OG people know who i am talking about.

[GhosT 1301]

2 hours ago, Nabiki said:

4x4 vegas doesn't have anymore hp than a regular vegas you would need to nerf both HP's.

 

No, doesn't make sense. Regular vegas is perfectly fine and probably even the worst high hp car in the game as it is.

 

Weight reduction could be a reason why the 4x4 is as fast as it is, which makes cars fragile, which could very well make sense HP-wise.

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

10 hours ago, VanilleKeks said:

What do you want to see balanced?

 Spotter could be really just be replaced by an actual "spotting" system in APB, which random teams could sorely use to point out where they see enemies. Spotter currently falls under all the other wall hack methods (Spamming fireworks and Radar Tower for example) which don't really add anything to APB.

 

Teleporting into cars is quite interesting. One of the one hand, if you remove it entirely then you may end up in situations where you are not able to enter a vehicle at all which could prove to be pretty frustrating. Perhaps a solution could be in situations where you would normally teleport, you have to wait for a timer to finish (equivalent to the time normally get in to a vehicle) before you get teleported.

[Jilleroo 349]

8 hours ago, GhosT said:

Speaking remote detonator, it's almost fine the way it is. All it needs is a cooldown timer so scrubs can't spam it.

 

Now Explosives 4 however...

Gross.

 

It's just an uninspired martyrdom and promotes retardation. This game has a huge skill curve. Pressing a button and launching a torpedo at 20 meters a second that insta kills isn't skill. It's just a stupid gimmick and I hate it. I haaaaate iiiiiiiit. >.>

[Haganu 104]

12 hours ago, VanilleKeks said:

High Burn Fuel

 

This has enabled car gameplay like no other mod. It is absolutely game breaking. Even when I'm using a conc and an ALIG, there is still more than enough time to hop out of your car and take 0 damage from it blowing up.

Even worse, you can guarantee that the remains of your car become cover by turning the driver side away from the guy trying to blow it up.

 

Remote Det

I don't mind Remote Det in Missions, but have you played Baylan recently? People just drive to the spawn points and suicide bomb you. Even if you kill the dude, remote det still works after the users death, which is just fantastic. Every couple times I spawn somewhere, I have to dodge atleast 1 or 2 remote dets before I get to shoot anyone. It's not fun.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to combine these 2 so players hear the split second WOOP WOOP and expect to die. 

I imagine their sheer surprise of being still alive after that leaves them vulnerable for long enough.

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, Haganu said:

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to combine these 2 so players hear the split second WOOP WOOP and expect to die. 

I imagine their sheer surprise of being still alive after that leaves them vulnerable for long enough.

yeah it’s fun to watch people run away from your car for no reason but just like actual remote det explosions you really only get to surprise someone once

 

 

 

 

since the topic is about balance beyond weapons i’d really like to see some map balancing at some point - riot clearly showed that the devs have room for a ton more props on the map (probably the only good thing to come out of that mode tbh), and most troublesome map spots could be “solved” with creative prop placement

 

the old thread by @Ellix has probably been lost to time on the old forums but it had a lot of good suggestions if anyone can dig it up

[Ellix 415]

6 hours ago, Solamente said:

the old thread by @Ellix has probably been lost to time on the old forums but it had a lot of good suggestions if anyone can dig it up

 

I plan to remake this thread once I'm done with my other project btw :3

[GhosT 1301]

12 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

Gross.

 

It's just an uninspired martyrdom and promotes retardation. This game has a huge skill curve. Pressing a button and launching a torpedo at 20 meters a second that insta kills isn't skill. It's just a stupid gimmick and I hate it. I haaaaate iiiiiiiit. >.>

 

It's not hard to get kills with remote detonator, I give you that.

 

But it's hard getting kills with remote detonator when your opponent has more than two brain cells because it's actually very easy to avoid.

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

out of everything mentioned i feel like the most broken thing is remote det having only a 10 second cooldown... this is the most abusable thing in my opinion. would be better if it could be used once every 60 seconds  like most other impactful mods.

 

as for spotter it would be nice if the player who is spotted was shown that he is spotted like how flare gun shows you spotted.

[videogamer 16]

big fat yes, to everything op said

Edited March 23, 2020 by videogamer

[Jilleroo 349]

3 hours ago, GhosT said:

But it's hard getting kills with remote detonator when your opponent has more than two brain cells because it's actually very easy to avoid.

Just like martyrdom in CoD. It hardly works, but when it does, it's just annoying and unsatisfying.

[Fenton 210]

Any change is going to have a massive ripple effect on gameplay as a whole. I'd love for a comprehensive re-work of the way things stand, but I would also council caution.

[Acornie 490]

This post is very close to one already sent to the 'suggestions' threads purgatory, almost all the 195+ mods are unbalanced, either being OP, underpowered or just badly designed, some of them needing some major changes, so maybe this would be something that would come after 3.5 

 

And yes pls balance cars,  Pioneer: Holds three heavy items, ✔ Has 4 seats, ✔ Has too much HP, ✔✔✔

[CookiePuss 5379]

If you want balance in your gameplay, you could not be playing a worse game.

APB is unbalanced at its core. Its literally baked into the game.

So if you want fair, play something else.