Shotgun Balance Update

[Selali 1003]

Hello everyone,

 

After all the feedback on the latest round of shotgun testing, we are quickly narrowing in on one set of stats. As such, for the next couple weeks, we will be moving to a single test district (we will still be testing in Asylum). These changes will go live with our upcoming 2/5 patch. Since we did not post the actual stats from last week, I will be combining the stats from Test district A with the changes we made to shotguns this week. The goal of Test A was to leave the 2017 ranges intact but bring down the damage to make shotguns not feel overbearing.

 

After the feedback that we got across both A and B, we have combined them into one district using those stats as the baseline. We improved the damage for a few of the weapons that were feeling underpowered. The JG and the CSG were still feeling too similar, so we made a couple changes that should help that feeling. The CSG is now more accurate, while keeping the spread the same. The JG has gained some damage but also has lost some range to compensate. Lastly, we moved the NFAS’s Fire Interval back to where it currently is on live. The 2017 stats moved it from a 0.29 to 0.25, we just moved it back.

 

 

We are getting much closer to a more balanced set of shotgun stats so if you want to have your feedback read and considered, time is quickly running out! Get out and help us balance shotguns!

Thanks,

Selali

 

[SmilyFace 300]

Not bad, not bad at all.

Nice to hear good news, will see what are the feelings after trying them out again in the next couple weeks.

Edited April 22, 2020 by AlishaAzure

[vsb 6170]

who's ready for 2012 meta again

[Acornie 490]

If the JT reward for playing a round was actually properly delivered this time around that might help, just sayin :')

[WorldDominator 61]

Don't really get the idea of over nerfing guns needlessly, the CSG's damage doesn't make sense verses a kevlar 3 player, as a pump shotgun it should at least reward its user by allowing him to be able to 2 shot the enemy if he's accurate enough. the CSG's firerate is much worse than the JG's therefore it's firerate will still render it useless against a JG user up close in its supposed "range".

 

On the other hand the JG looks more balanced having it's pre LO damage back to 720 which is still high enough to be feared at cqc.

 

In my opinion, CSG's fire interval needs to be on par with the JG's (0.68s) and get a damage boost up to 650 which is the least max damage required to 2 shot a kevlar 3 enemy player having a total of 1300 hp (in case of landing all pellets on target), which was the case with the pre LO CSG and it simply felt great to use.

 

The difference between those 2 shotguns was always the extra damage per shot for the JG meaning it could end an enemy who's tagged more than 28% in 1 shot unlike the CSG which needed a 35% tagged enemy, also JG was always the less accuracy per damage shotgun choice making it excel at closer ranges unlike the CSG which needed a more accurate shot to be able to deal a respectable amount of damage per shot making it excel in farther ranges.

 

I'm confused at how you're seeing them similar, you can't just over nerf one of them and let the other outshine it simply because you think that they need to feel that much different according to your data. 

 

What's simply gonna happen is that CSGs would remain unused in the inventory of most of the players which has been the situation since the last weapon balancing. 

 

Edit : if you guys are incapable of managing a shotgun balance right now, i suggest to just completely revert every shotgun to its pre LO stats and push these changes to live so players can actually enjoy playing them until you guys figure out a better plan which would be completely unnecessary since all shotguns except shredder were 100% fine as they were.

Edited February 4, 2020 by WorldDominator
Typo

[Hexerin 1140]

40 minutes ago, Acornie said:

If the JT reward for playing a round was actually properly delivered this time around that might help, just sayin :')

The JT reward "increase" is from 0-10 per mission to 1-10 per mission, assuming you win the 50/50 on actually getting a mission reward for the mission in the first place.

 

It's being properly delivered, it's just nothing.

[Parthian 344]

I still think you guys need to do something about the IR3. The CSG variants without IR3 felt completely useless on the test districts compared to the IR3 variants. 

[WaltanMari 6]

This news looks like press "F" for strife.

 

Hey STRIFE users, can we unite and do something whith it?

[Nitronik 348]

I still don't get why the Strife cannot 1shot fragile users anymore

Also cba joining since we were ignored both during the RFP changes and now

[heelruby 66]

26 minutes ago, WaltanMari said:

This news looks like press "F" for strife.

 

Hey STRIFE users, can we unite and do something whith it?

Ya it's sad and it doesn't make sense imo

Strife was fine, it didn't need that nerf

[TheJellyGoo 343]

Don't forget that the Showstopper is an actual Secondary.

 

[Acornie 490]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

The JT reward "increase" is from 0-10 per mission to 1-10 per mission, assuming you win the 50/50 on actually getting a mission reward for the mission in the first place.

 

It's being properly delivered, it's just nothing.

I'm talking about the new prototype Asylum reward, at the end of the round it says you were awarded JT (no certain amount listed), and you get absolutely 0

[Ellix 415]

1 hour ago, Parthian said:

I still think you guys need to do something about the IR3. The CSG variants without IR3 felt completely useless on the test districts compared to the IR3 variants. 

They need to change the mod from IR 3 to IR2 and that should be fine

[PotatoeGirl 220]

I just wonder what is even the point of testing it 3 times especially when no one joins those districts. 

Just make a backup, put it live for a week and see how everyone reacts. 

[nikitos5 51]

Dude, you do realise no one is going to play with CSG with that shitty 0.75 fire rate?

[CookiePuss 5373]

"Farewell old friend"

      -me retiring the Strife to my locker for good

Edited February 4, 2020 by CookiePuss

[Hexerin 1140]

As Little Orbit continues to prove they have no fucking clue what the Strife is supposed to be, and have now completely killed the gun.

[xHenryman90x 129]

6 hours ago, Acornie said:

I'm talking about the new prototype Asylum reward, at the end of the round it says you were awarded JT (no certain amount listed), and you get absolutely 0

These kind of issues are becoming too common, something is constantly broken, they should start testing that everything is working before they put it out.

[CookiePuss 5373]

58 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

"Farewell old friend"

      -me retiring the Strife to my locker for good

Im realizing now that its not as obvious as I thought that this was sarcasm.
Even if I disagree with the Strife changes, I dont believe these new numbers will have any real effect on the gun in-game.
The only thing rarer than having opp with Fragile, is actually pulling off the one shot on them.

Of course it was fun, but I feel like players are reacting as if this was THE reason to use the gun, and on that I disagree.

[mojical 159]

I agree with most of the changes from the 2nd table, with two exceptions:

- The DOW's damage should perhaps be lowered slightly as it already has lower spread than the NFAS, which is enough of a tradeoff for not being automatic in my opinion, it does not need to do substantially higher damage than its automatic counterpart. 

- The JG's firerate seems too good. Even with its spread the high amount of overdamage goes a long way to render the CSG's accuracy advantages moot, so there is no point in the JG having a substantially better TTK. Something like 0.72-0.73 would make more sense.  Keep in mind that reducing its "range" as in dropoff start will accomplish next to nothing, thanks to IR3 (see below).  

 

As for IR3 it won't make a big difference on CSG if the dropoff starts at 20m as the table says, since practically all shotguns very quickly become ineffective at that distance due to pellet spread. In case of the JG it will be a factor, but since players are free to mod it as they wish unlike the CSG, I believe it will be much less of an issue. 

 

Finally, I expected prototype Asylum to replace standard Asylum rather than exist beside it, so sadly the districts have been empty most of the time. I realize taking away "standard" Asylum districts might upset a small number of players, but such drastic measures might be necessary to gather enough data.  

Edited February 4, 2020 by Mojibaked

[Therustee 9]

Tas shotgun still 2taps people's from over 15meters even a JG with IR3 can do the same thing with 3shots so where is the balance for that? 

[N66 97]

17 hours ago, Selali said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still don't understand the intention with the Strife's extremely low fire rate.. JG has about the same damage, can easily 2 shot kill, at the same range, but it can shoot almost 3 times by the time the strife shoots the second time..

 

Basically, more or less, you can expect to receive 3 hits before you are allowed to fire your second shot, overkill.. I think 1 second or 0.9 would be more fair

[BrandonBranderson 672]

The Strife really sucked when I was testing that out.  Wasn't able to get a single kill on my own with it when up against a JG or CSG.  Not saying I'm a pro with it or anything, but I can usually hold my own with it pretty well.  It's supposed to have massive damage with a slow fire rate, and should be able to 1-shot fragile users if all the pellets hit.  It's supposed to be the HVR of point blank range.

Edited February 4, 2020 by BrandonBranderson

[GhosT 1301]

You guys still didn't explain why you absolutely have to fiddle with shotguns.

They were the most balanced weapon class and instead of focusing on actual balance problems you touch them? Why?

[SacheM 17]

Ahhhhh old csg better so why jg more damage than csg why.Maybe Csg more dmg than jg but jg faster than csg.Now jg more damage more fast.