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Ursus Balancing

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6 hours ago, Evagelyne said:

Ursus is a worse N-TEC.

 

Don't say "well established fact" when it's purely a stupid anecdote; one that you drummed up to make your completely incorrect post seem to have some measure of merit to it.

I have to disagree. The Ursus IS a slightly worse, less versatile, N-TEC 5.

 

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39 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

I have to disagree. The Ursus IS a slightly worse, less versatile, N-TEC 5.

 

I'm a silver and I agree with this.

I can kill the ursus easier than the ntec 5

it looks like people are starting to complain again on this thread of stuff that kills them as unbalanced.

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I am a Gold. I have been since 2012. I have used my fair share of the Ursus and NTEC. If you honestly think the Ursus is harder to use than an NTEC, I'm sorry if I'm going to hurt your feelings, but you should re-evaluate your own skill level. @crusade seems to understand where I'm coming from. 

 

Merged.

 

11 hours ago, crusade said:

I'm confused. People are talking as if the Ursus and NTEC are wildly different guns. It's literally just 5 STK vs 6 STK, although Ursus also has built in Bandolier (5 spare mags vs 4 mags in NTEC) and NTEC has 2 extra bullets in the mag (Ursus has 5 potential kills, NTEC has 5.33 potential kills). Generally speaking, lower STK usually means better jiggle peak potential. So let's not act like fewer STK is somehow a downside.

 

Any changes made to the base NTEC would need to be mirrored in its variants, Ursus included. A good example would be a magazine nerf. If the NTEC goes down to 24 bullets in a mag, the Ursus would need to go down to 20.

 

The only real downside to the Ursus is that you can't get that 3rd mod slot.

Finally someone with basic critical thinking skills. 

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I understand Ursus is supposed to be balanced in relation to Ntec-5, and yes it should be, but people are already complaining for a while that it's a downgrade from Ntec-5, which I didn't agree with at all, until recently when they reverted IR3 (that revert is still in place right?) since then I feel it's a bit weaker, but from what I know there are no changes what-so-ever to Ursus or IR3 now. 

This is more of a confused opinion I guess, Ursus is changed or is it just some placebo? 

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If the ursus is needed I'll probably go back to the obeya rifle. Obeya just requires a few more taps.

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I was going to comment about why I think the Ursus needs a nerf, but then I saw the number of dislikes OP got lol...Ig we should just let people enjoy their OP legendary-locked gun

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15 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I have to disagree. The Ursus IS a slightly worse, less versatile, N-TEC 5.

 

That's exactly what I said.

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17 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I have to disagree. The Ursus IS a slightly worse, less versatile, N-TEC 5.

Could you explain to me why you believe the Ursus is worse than the NTEC? I've seen a lot of people make some very biased statements based on their own personal experience, none of which I'm really interested in. I'd like to know exactly why, and what statistic(s) are making the Ursus an inferior weapon.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Goldtiger said:

I was going to comment about why I think the Ursus needs a nerf, but then I saw the number of dislikes OP got lol...Ig we should just let people enjoy their OP legendary-locked gun

That’s how forum people think. They don’t play the game or maybe logging once per week to stay in social. But it seems they know better than those who actually play the game. There’re few high tier skill players on forums because most of them just play the game, but if you ask them in game balance related things, they will have completely different opinions on it comparing to common opinions from forum people with thousands of comments here

Edited by Lign
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1 hour ago, crusade said:

Could you explain to me why you believe the Ursus is worse than the NTEC? I've seen a lot of people make some very biased statements based on their own personal experience, none of which I'm really interested in. I'd like to know exactly why, and what statistic(s) are making the Ursus an inferior weapon.

it’s less versatile mod wise and it has less overdamage 

 

other than that the ursus is so close to the ntec in terms of performance that it’s almost negligible, it’s kind of crazy to me that one is being nerfed so hard and one isn’t being touched 

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57 minutes ago, Solamente said:

it’s less versatile mod wise and it has less overdamage 

 

other than that the ursus is so close to the ntec in terms of performance that it’s almost negligible, it’s kind of crazy to me that one is being nerfed so hard and one isn’t being touched 

I suppose you're right. HB1 adds a shot to kill on Ursus but not NTEC.

 

My assumption is that they are using the NTEC as a baseline, and will modify variants after they settle on the changes they want to make.

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2 hours ago, crusade said:

My assumption is that they are using the NTEC as a baseline, and will modify variants after they settle on the changes they want to make.

i really hope not - despite the ntec and ursus similarity i don’t think they should be “balanced” the same, and using the ntec as a baseline will be pointless if the current test changes go through 

 

side note, if they do balance ursus and ntec the same i can’t wait to see how much more shit the new glory gets lol

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Bet all the people saying the ursus is equal to or worse than the standard ntec don’t even know it got buffed back when the shotgun changes happened. 

 

It got put in line with the scoped n-tec, giving a longer drop off to its minimum damage, also felt like they sped up its bloom recovery around that time. 

 

I’ve been playing them both on and off for a while now and the ursus is just so easy, even easier than the standard ntec, grab a showstopper for cqc and you’re all set honestly.

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2 minutes ago, Nanometic said:

Bet all the people saying the ursus is equal to or worse than the standard ntec don’t even know it got buffed back when the shotgun changes happened. 

 

It got put in line with the scoped n-tec, giving a longer drop off to its minimum damage, also felt like they sped up its bloom recovery around that time. 

 

I’ve been playing them both on and off for a while now and the ursus is just so easy, even easier than the standard ntec, grab a showstopper for cqc and you’re all set honestly.

ursus actually has a longer recovery delay than ntec, although realistically the .005s difference might as well not exist

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1 minute ago, Solamente said:

ursus actually has a longer recovery delay than ntec, although realistically the .005s difference might as well not exist

On mid range it doesn't matter when you're tapping. Ursus has faster effective ttk on 50+m because of its stk

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6 minutes ago, Solamente said:

ursus actually has a longer recovery delay than ntec, although realistically the .005s difference might as well not exist

So they’re tapping at almost the same rate. But the ursus has to land 1 less shot?

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The same people that want the NTEC nerf think that anyone who disagrees with the nerf just want to "protect their favorite toy". How is that any different from you lot with the Ursus?

 

The skill gap just in Gold alone is way too varied. The only opinions that should be valid in terms of weapon balancing should be from the top tier players. Players like @rooq, @Flaws, @PvE, and @zeals.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, OPK said:

The same people that want the NTEC nerf think that anyone who disagrees with the nerf just want to "protect their favorite toy". How is that any different from you lot with the Ursus?

 

The skill gap just in Gold alone is way too varied. The only opinions that should be valid in terms of weapon balancing should be from the top tier players. Players like @rooq, @Flaws, @PvE, and @zeals.

 

 

They don't think it's op because they rarely see someone using it. The same happened to obir, in 2014-2015 none whined at obir until more and more players started using it. The same happened to ntec when g1 buffed it after overnerfing. I started a topic that with that buff ntec is going to be one of the strongest meta in the game and everyone literally disliked me in to the ground, now the same people are whining at this gun

Edited by Lign
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Posted (edited)

So what are going to be the next weapons ? SLR-762 ? SNR 850 ? People allways tend to complain insetad of trying to get better anyways.

Edited by Mikarity

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7 hours ago, crusade said:

Could you explain to me why you believe the Ursus is worse than the NTEC? 

It's slightly less versatile than the 5, primarily in cqc. The 7 is also less forgiving than the 5 due to slower RoF. The 7 does get an extra 5m before hitting minimum damage (due to lack of curve mechanic) but it has less overdamage so it doesn't actually kill faster within those 5m. It also is LESS forgiving at the initial drop-off at 50m because of the lack of curve.  The 7 also has one less mod slot, so you can't modify it as well as the 5. 

 

The one thing the Ursus has going for it is the persistent center dot. So if you aren't already using an overlay, that's a plus. 

 

All this being said, it doesn't mean that everyone will prefer the 5 to the 7. And if you are more comfortable with the Ursus, then I say stick with it. 

 

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On 10/3/2019 at 2:02 PM, crusade said:

The only real downside to the Ursus is that you can't get that 3rd mod slot.

This and also the general idea that almost all legendaries need to have 1 mod slot locked, what's the justification?

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2 hours ago, OPK said:

The same people that want the NTEC nerf think that anyone who disagrees with the nerf just want to "protect their favorite toy". How is that any different from you lot with the Ursus?

 

The skill gap just in Gold alone is way too varied. The only opinions that should be valid in terms of weapon balancing should be from the top tier players. Players like @rooq, @Flaws, @PvE, and @zeals.

 

 

A very important factor when balancing is that the game should be approachable to new players as well. Every one of us wishes to see population growth, but balancing entirely around veteran players is likely a bad idea. I have no personal stake in any gun, so I would love to see some kind of meta shift happen. It would be magnificant for breathing life into the game once more, but terribly difficult to execute correctly.

 

I am not against an N-Tec nerf, but it must be done in a way where surrounding competing weapons are also touched upon accordingly. I can spot a lot of pay to win scenarios appearing by overnerfing the N-Tec and ignoring other guns - this can be incredibly dangerous.

 

But I don't think being unbiased or being able to identify accidents in balancing necessarily has a lot of overlap with being a good player. I think a decent mixture of skill levels is important in this case.

My main concern is making an "easy" gun the meta. I like a high skill ceiling, and I would argue that the STAR has one of the lowest skill ceilings in the game.

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Nerfing any contenders of the ntec-5 should't be done before they have decided how they are going to re-balance it and have performed that duty (and possibly re-balanced it countless times).

 

We could as well be theoretically talking about STAR getting re-balanced right now, but why not focus on one thing at the time for the time being? It's not like the massive balance patches have led into huge success and fixed all the problems at once in the past...

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12 hours ago, OPK said:

The same people that want the NTEC nerf think that anyone who disagrees with the nerf just want to "protect their favorite toy". How is that any different from you lot with the Ursus?

 

The skill gap just in Gold alone is way too varied. The only opinions that should be valid in terms of weapon balancing should be from the top tier players. Players like @rooq, @Flaws, @PvE, and @zeals.

 

 

Appreciate the kind words. I believe the Ursus is the closest representation to what the NTEC should be. The current NTEC-5 is way to dominant due to the jump shooting potential and spraying accuracy in CQC.  In my opinion a simple spray accuracy nerf(whilst leaving tap firing completely untouched), a touch on range to keep it in the middle and short-long ranges(nothing too harsh), and a magazine size nerf would do the trick.

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On 10/2/2019 at 4:19 PM, Solamente said:

the ursus will easily take the top AR spot once the ntec is overnerfed seeing as it’s nearly the same gun, just with slightly less versatility - and if it’s (somehow) not the ursus it will be the far 

 

neither of which orbit should want if they’re being true to “moving the game away from p2w elements”

 

Yeah, that's true, now that you say it, i belive it would make it worse indeed...

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