[PC] PATCH NOTES 1.20.0 (1161) DISCUSSION

[Ketog 973]

2 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

@Ketog I never had the chance to play riot since no one on Jericho was in there when I had time to play so I want to. but thats just how I am

 

a lot of people refused to help with testing but before that would gripe about wanting to do  testing for APB.

SKay and Solamente both have valid points about testing but in this case we are talking about APB and how people play in their comfort zone a lot.

blind data or not , people need to go in and test regardless and many seemed to gripe on Jericho about wanting missions instead of putting in effort to test.

riot was an okay idea but at the worst time possible to be implemented, that's all im gonna say.

 

 

Weapons do need to be tested, and yes, it does require more than a little bit of involvement, and im all into doing so if that's needed.

 

Ill check myself a bit on how those weapons feel like and give some feedback after.

[Fortune Runner 791]

19 minutes ago, Ketog said:

riot was an okay idea but at the worst time possible to be implemented, that's all im gonna say.

 

 

Weapons do need to be tested, and yes, it does require more than a little bit of involvement, and im all into doing so if that's needed.

 

Ill check myself a bit on how those weapons feel like and give some feedback after.

agreed and agreed

 

I have an idea. probably not a good  idea but its an idea

 

have Little Orbit make a new Hawaiian shirt as a reward for who tests each day.

figure out how to  make them stay to test and not pop in is the problem with that.

maybe a custom npc to complete each day.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Fortune Runner

[CookiePuss 5142]

RIP Obir. 

I didn't really like you anyways. 

[kERHUS 28]

Damn. It's a bad idea i think. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by kERHUS

[LilyRain 542]

2 hours ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

That wouldn't fix it being a better frag grenade (at least for anti-personal) than the regular frag grenades

Low-Yields are also weaker against vehicles, but yes. Tweaking it further than just limiting the count to 2 is miles better indeed

[Guest]

Changes to the Low-Yield? 

Wow, you guys working hard back there, good luck!

Edited September 5, 2019 by Guest

[Sayori 293]

Absolutely atrocious and uncalled OBIR/FFA changes. 

Go nerf NTEC5 or something that is abused daily. Or maybe Euryale

 

And I like test b longer fuse timer. Damage is ok.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Sayori

[crusade 86]

7 hours ago, SKay said:

And that's exactly the reason why you should test the changes when the servers come back online.

 

Armchair stat scrutiny helps absolutely noone.

Armchair scrutiny? If we knew damage values, I wouldn't have to waste time testing if I can kill someone with two grenades or not. Even then, how in the world would I know if the max damage value is 450 or 495?

 

How am I supposed to figure out the max damage radius? It's necessary to know these measurements to make comparisons. It's necessary to make comparisons because we are talking about BALANCE.

 

Can't believe people are defending this sh*t.

[iRawwwN 196]

OBIR/FFA nerf is a good idea. The CQC effectiveness of it was too strong, 50dmg instantly then 3 shots with the FBW isn't that difficult. 

 

Low-yields needed to be changed 100%, I'm not sure if the fuse timer needed to be messed with but maybe it might work out.

[thelinux 51]

On the one hand I'm glad to see you realised that yolos need tweaking, but I'm surprised that out of all the other broken things, you've chosen the OBIR.

 

To be fair, I've always found 495 damage to be a little over the top for one flawless burst. However, in my view removing the ability to quickswitch after a burst is unnecessary since it will cause the weapon to be effectively useless in cqc (which alternatives in that class are not).  

[SkittyM 270]

Random video showing the OBIR switch delay.  Technical issues kinda botched it.

 

 

[Tenginima 74]

Incredibly busted changes, yet again, both the community and currently LO does not understand the balance of APB and why a lot of it Should not be tempered with.

 

The 1 good thing from this is ofc the idea of the Low yield change, i've always said this to people around me, Low yields are fine on all aspects EXCEPT blast radious, they are suppose to be Low Yield afterall, the damage should not be touched due to the fact that honestly, it would just gimp the nades when you consider CA3. Blast radious is the only change needed, so test A is far superior compared too test B.

 

Now now now, the OBIR changes, right, where to start? Firstly, I find it so funny, that a gun that is barely used compared to other meta guns, NTEC, JG, OCA, etc, is being nerfed. First of all the OBIR already had a nerf way back when with it's firerate nerf, (which in itself was a crap nerf, but that's a discussion for another time since APB was a different game back then). Which coupled with the OBEYA nerf put them both on par with eachother and other longrange weaponry. 

 

Now firstly, the change to secondary switching is a baffling nerf, as it not only makes the game more clunky and unresponsive, and with lag, WILL increase the current 0.5 to more time while playing due to latency. Firerate nerfs, and nerfs overall to mobility (in most cases) aren't proper well made nerfs, as they make the game more clunky, and god knows how clunky APB already can be at times, if you really want to nerf the OBIR, something very trivial like jump accuracy is a lot more relevant, everything else is just bizarr.

 

Why is this you might ask? if you shot someone with 1 burst and then switch to your secondary, you cut your TTK in half basically. Well, that's the argument at least, usually coupled with "well the same applies to the scout so". The problem with this line of thinking is that, while yes, on paper you're clearly cheesing something that the gun balance didn't think of, making a long range rifle into a viable CQC weapon, you are missing vital, critical points about other things AROUND the gun. 

APB, like many games, aren't just black and white, just because A gun has X Y Z that is on paper "OP" doesn't make so in practise. So let's take an example, we're assuming that both players are equally good here, and that RNG is relatively low, for each gun's intended role. So if player A) uses an OCA and let's say FBW, and player B) uses an OBIR and FBW. if both of these players, are playing in CQC, Realistically speaking, if the OCA player knows his opponents gun, and knows what it is capable of, he will either expect a jumpshot out of cover switching to his FBW, or a corner pop FBW combo, wwhich would be the 2 most likely combos. 

 

Alright, so how realistically speaking, how will the OBIR win this victory over a CQC monster? Well he really only got corner popping as and option and as mentioned jumpshoting, Jumpshoting at this range (5 - 10M) with HS3 will be harder, not impossible, but harder, that coupled with him having to land 3 perfect shots from his FBW in a row, is very, very unlikely to win, unless the OCA user chokes real bad, or is just overall bad. Corner popping then? Well that can be mitigated by simply tossing 1 uncooked nade at his cover, wait a little till the timer closes in to 0 and push. 

 

The biggest chance of victory for the here for the OBIR user is to cornerpop, which in itself is still a disadvantage at such a close range against an OCA, the OCA user will have to do something really bad or stupid in order to lose a fight like that. As a matter of fact at that range, it would be more beneficial for the OBIR user to use a more long range supporting secondary instead, like 45. FBW, Thunder and stock showstopper.

 

What about 15 - 20m? Well here the OBIR has a much bigger chance at winning, but again, it comes into how to play around a corner rather then the OBIR itself (Just like every gun in the game). Which is also a factor most people forget about, Corners. Corners is one of the biggest defensive advantages a person can have, ANY gun will be far superior behind corner, Long, short or medium range, it is all the same. However, if the guy is out in the open? at 15 - 20m - no chance of winning, ESPECIALLY if the OCA user switches to a secondary. And what about the corner at 15 - 20m? Cooking nades and throwing cooked nades, combining them both is the best combo, while running between bursts effectively.

 

The times the OBIR wins over CQC weapons is when the OBIR gets the drop on them first, which due to its burst nature, will OFC make it a very competitive weapon in such instances, but the same can be said about the JG, OSCAR, Carbine, hell, even the damn CAP 40 is good when that is considered. Just like all guns, the OBIR is a lot better at a "first strike" scenario due to its burst nature, which can give the illusion of being "OP" due to the secondary switch. Funny thing is, if you really die a lot to that combo, ESPECIALLY if you use CQC guns, sorry to say it bud, but you're just really trash.

 

APB was designed as a game where teamwork is a large part on solving "gun problems" but even when playing a lot of solo, taking care of CQC OBIR's is a lot easier then let's say CQC OSCAR's, Carbine users, OCA's etc etc.

 

Point is, sure, you can cheese the OBIR's TTK with a secondary, truth is, the time it takes from the burst, to the switch, to being forced to land 3 perfect shots to reach maximum efficiency is super hard (compared to just using a gun optimized for CQC).

 

Point is? Sure, OBIR can be used very effectivly CQC, but CQC weapons and even mid range ones will outplay it, just like everything, it's up to the player, there's a reason you don't see silvers just owning everyone with a modded or stock OBIR, and even the really good players with it, will STILL not win against an equally good player using a CQC gun, so no, OBIR's CQC ability is far from op.

 

And while we're at it, what's the deal with the NFAS eh? Complaining about the OBIR's CQC capabilites, yet, the NFAS still stands as one of the best CQC weapons in the game currently, for all the wrong reasons mind you. You can't apply rayscaling to an automatic shotgun, or shotguns at all for that matter, it makes IR3 to powerful on them. So yeah, nerf the OBIR's secondary switch, compare to how many times you die by that compared to a 15m JG 2 shot

[glaciers 5724]

so after some quick testing here are my thoughts

 

obir - while i understand the reasoning behind this change i still hate it

regardless of how "short" it is a bolt timer will always feel super clunky especially with the added mobility decrease from the long sprint delay, as someone who frequently uses the obir its incredibly noticeable (in a bad way)

i didnt have time to do anything super indepth but it feels like too strong of a nerf, idk if the intention was to merely limit the obir's cqc ability or to completely neuter it but imo we got the latter option

if we're fixed on the obir needing a fix here are my alternate suggestions:

• if bolt timer has to stay - remove the sprint delay entirely
• if the bolt timer is canned - lower the obir's total burst damage from anywhere from 450-400 and increase its range (to make up for the loss of some overdamage), this would still technically allow for quickswitching with the .45 but limit the effectiveness of the fbw

 

low yields

• test A

this is the optimal solution imo - with grenades that have under 500 damage and a radius around 4m (from quick testing) low yields are now less of a raw damage threat and less of an area denial threat, but without compromising their original purpose as a faster lighter option

• test B

garbage - 1 second less fuse time is too small to offset low yields from frags, especially with the lower damage

the damage seems overnerfed (even lower than test A?) but perhaps thats because the additional fuse time means ca3 users (re: almost everyone) can tank all 3 grenades without dying

i understand the push towards area denial but it just won't work without the threat of serious damage to back it up

[SkittyM 270]

45 minutes ago, Solamente said:

low yields

• test A

this is the optimal solution imo - with grenades that have under 500 damage and a radius around 4m (from quick testing) low yields are now less of a raw damage threat and less of an area denial threat, but without compromising their original purpose as a faster lighter option

 

Test A is exactly 500 since it's still a 2 shot.  My issue with them is that they're basically bricks/8balls with a bit of radius tacked on.

[glaciers 5724]

28 minutes ago, SkittyM said:

Test A is exactly 500 since it's still a 2 shot.  My issue with them is that they're basically bricks/8balls with a bit of radius tacked on.

exactly 500 is a little weird imo, perhaps orbit intended to give flak jacket a slightly expanded niche but really it’s just another (on a long list) reason to use ca3 over every other green mod

 

id recommend lowering damage to 495 on test A making two low yields equivalent to getting hit by one conc

[TurboBRCrim 29]

What about the rewards in JT for testing weapons? NA testing districts are dead now...

[BlatMan 426]

23 hours ago, Solamente said:

since the obir is now effectively receiving a cqc nerf, are there any plans to change its sprint delay to give it slightly more mobility?

Sprint delay being linked to rate of fire needs to be reverted. It severely hurts the mobility of weapons that have really long tkk, like the ACT44 for example. It also makes movement feel clunky and unresponsive.

 

The OBIR should be left alone. It's been nerfed multiple times already when it was unnecessary. All this nerf will do is move some players to other weapons that don't have the switch delay, which will then cause those weapons to get the same nerf, and then we're left with clunky movement all around.

 

As for the RFP-9, it should remain as is, or at the very minimal, reduce it's range to 30M but it keep all other stats the same. Buff some of the less used side arms like the base ACT44, NFA9, SAS PDW, and Mounte series.

 

The ACT44 needs about 10% better base accuracy to make it more reliable at range. NFA9 needs less horizontal recoil, not sure on percentage. SAS PDW needs 50% less bloom per shot so it can be tap fired at close range with the improved rifling variant. The Mounte needs about 10% better base accuracy and less recoil.

Edited September 5, 2019 by SquirrelFace

[SkittyM 270]

55 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

The ACT44 needs about 10% better base accuracy to make it more reliable at range. NFA9 needs less horizontal recoil, not sure on percentage. SAS PDW needs 50% less bloom per shot so it can be tap fired at close range with the improved rifling variant. The Mounte needs about 10% better base accuracy and less recoil.

N-FA 9 is actually rather fine as it is.  Just works as that "get in someones face and BRRRRTTT" gun.  As for the Mountie, i honestly had an idea where it can be tap fired with .45 accuracy reasonably but blooms out rather hard when full auto.  Likely a damage buff too since 1 kill per mag is a bit annoying for what it is.

[crusade 86]

10 hours ago, Tenginima said:

Incredibly busted changes, yet again, both the community and currently LO does not understand the balance of APB and why a lot of it Should not be tempered with.

I agree that most people in this community don't have the slightest clue about balance. Can't fault LO for it though, because they just kinda picked up the game. They can't really just leave stuff untouched, either. There are some things that legitimately need changing, and I'm glad they are finally looking at Low-Yields.

 

I've had some time to think about it, and I'm actually quite certain that adding the switch delay on the OBIR is pointless. Tenginima, you went a more theoretical route, I'm going to take the mathematical one.

 

So, the OBIR takes 0.1s to fire it's full burst (Fire interval of 0.05s, bullet #1 at 0.0s, #2 at 0.05s, #3 at 0.1s). FBW equip time is 0.4s, with a firerate of 0.2s.

Burst + FBW Equip + 3 shots (Only count firerate twice, first shot is fired immediately after equipped).

0.1 + 0.4 + (0.2 * 2) = 0.9 seconds. And that is completely machine perfect execution. I think adding 0.1s of human error is reasonable, which puts the TTK to 1.0s, which is exactly the same as the FBW's TTK. This is something the SPCT members would've figured out if they realized the importance of numbers.

 

So, with that math out of the way, we can conclude that OBIR burst into FBW is practically useless if you are fighting an enemy out in the open with no cover. This means that the quickswitch tactic is only really viable if you have cover to utilize before swinging wide with your FBW, which would then only need 3 shots to kill your target. Adding an extra 0.5 seconds before you can make this transition is silly, considering an Obeya CR762 could effectively do the same thing, except at 0.21 seconds to get the two shots out that amount to an OBIR burst (0.11s slower).

 

If you're good at this game, even if you're fighting someone who is also good, you're bound to get some cheeky kills on them with this. I would say landing a grenade + OBIR burst is significantly more likely to win you a fight against a Pointman weapon over quickswitching. Generally speaking though, the Pointman is going to win most of those engagements, and that's because the OBIR user is winning if he and his team are not allowing those engagements to happen in the first place.

[Pedroxin 100]

iirc, there was a mention of some joker tickets being rewarded to testers? That might actually motivate ppl to join test districts since there are more useful things u can buy with jt now

Edited September 5, 2019 by Pedroxin

[Cr0 320]

"RFP:

...

Min Damage Range: 25m -> 15m"

 

Umm... I don't think that's right....

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by SilverCrow

[Uke 96]

On 9/4/2019 at 4:01 AM, swft said:

Still think you should only be able to carry 2 low yields.

That would just make them worse frags.

[Cr0 320]

On 9/4/2019 at 4:01 AM, swft said:

Still think you should only be able to carry 2 low yields.

I think so too.

Simplest, most effective solution. From 3 to 2. Done.

 

And then change it so you get to keep 2 with flak jacket, making yolos the upside of nades with flak.

[foolish ninja 59]

why not just buff the other grenade types?

it would be better for newcomers and would also add more variations for veterans.

[Kevkof 806]

1 hour ago, SilverCrow said:

"RFP:

...

Min Damage Range: 25m -> 15m"

 

Umm... I don't think that's right....

 

I could be wrong, but this should be the distance over which it goes from maximum damage to minimum damage (a.k.a. the drop-off) it would make sense like that