Noob_Guardian

Nah, even the old so-called "pros" and even the old cheaters of the time did it all the time. It had caused hitbox issues when you accounted for the original sprintshooting "time to sprint speed" which had been .10/.15 before (now .35 i believe). Mostly all it did was make the animation glitchy, but then you go and hold shift (or do the sprint always on modification) with the way they strafed, mixed with network issues, coding issues, and the "player location assumption system" (whatever the automatic system is that makes it look like someone is at a location) it caused a lot of noticeable issues ingame. I had plenty of times where i'd be seeing blood on thin air where the enemy "had" been before a second before, or get kills by aiming "off" of the character to the left or right but would miss almost every shot when i aimed on where i "saw" the player due to it. It's why before you could crouch glitch your hitbox until it glitched making you near unkillable, and after that, the use vehicles to "trap" your character and hitbox, while free-roaming camera at superspeed. With a few other things that used to occur. Nowadays though it's more of an annoyance with glitchy animations, but the bigger problems with hitreg from it are fixed. Something old "pros" used to due with joker carbine and stuff to seem edgelordy. Rather dumb now since it does nothing other than glitchy animation. It can however help you hit you when they do it if done right. It's because they move off of you with the reticule, "v" and it moves the other direction to be on you. (It's somewhat difficult to do imo, i was never good at it)

oh crap, you're right thanks for pointing it out, xD Though by the looks of it, most weapons have the same modifiers until marksman mode... OCA: Movement Speed Crouched Speed 90 cm/s Walk Speed 139 cm/s Marksman Speed 275 cm/s Run Speed 412.50 cm/s Sprint Speed 600 cm/s NTEC: Movement Speed Crouched Speed 90 cm/s Walk Speed 139 cm/s Marksman Speed 175 cm/s Run Speed 412.50 cm/s Sprint Speed 600 cm/s Oscar: Movement Speed Crouched Speed 90 cm/s Walk Speed 139 cm/s Marksman Speed 275 cm/s Run Speed 412.50 cm/s Sprint Speed 600 cm/s Though, sprint shooting and holding shift will modify a players speed slightly, it doesn't cause much of a change. At that point it could be netcoding/player location update system/ and latency to factor in to the strange movement anyways

they increased the time to sprint after firing to like .35, which had negated most of the problem. It's still somewhat possible, but it's very limited, and it's now just better to strafe fire over sprintshoot, unless a patch broke it. Plus the latency coding and whatever happy penguin was mentioning has a part in it. It was much worse before the change due to the client trying to catch up and not being able to accurately, which made fighting against sprint shooters before a nightmare. Add onto latency issues, and you had a guy who could practically dance around you while spamming v to make the animation buggy while moving back and forth (and also to hit people by changing camera once the character moved out of the other sides view. Another thing is i'm pretty sure some weapons have faster base movement speeds when firing, when in and out of mm than others. Example: Older stats from the DB OCA VS NTEC OCA: Run Modifier1.10 Sprint Modifier1.50 Jump Modifier4 NTEC: Walk Modifier1.20 Run Modifier6 Sprint Modifier1.50 Jump Modifier2

Yeah been a few months, been busy with other stuff, was waiting for some changes and stuff to happen, and must have missed a much of stuff while forum ghosting. Why would a 10m max range on JG before damage drop occur make it too weak? That's about as far as its really ever been "effective" in the first place. Other than taking 5+ shots to kill past 10m due to spread (least how i remember it). It can still be a powerhouse within that range though. I've never dared to fire a jg at 15m, because it takes 7-8 kills at that range. Thats like a 3-4 second ttk, its easier just to pistol, or wait for the enemy to come closer. Why? You actually fire your csg shotgun at 15-25m ranges for kills? At that range you're far better off just switching to a pistol due to the spread. I can understand at 10-15 since it takes 3-5 shots, but 20m+ imo is smg ranges. Shotguns should tickle at that point. I didn't even know there was an IR3 change. I stopped a week or two after they made IR3 effect weapons based on their maximum ranges, and there was talk about changing IR3 to have no ttk increase, but i wasnt around to see it happen. Thank god for the strife revert though, that's my favorite shotgun and i was upset at the changes. Shredder - i will have to pick up my ir3 preset again when i get the chance, the IR3 nerf hit it reaaaally hard in playability.

I've been away for a about a month.. nvm its been two, between college, POE grinding for the recent league, and overwatch "trying" not to lose rank from degradation, i've had little time to play APB since a few weeks after the iteration of balance changes. I've tried to keep up with the forums though, but i guess i missed some things.

meant shredder, fixing

JG could use a 7-10m range, with a damage drop starting at 10m. Should be back to .7 ttk CSG was strong before. I wouldnt mind going to a lower per pellet damage bonus, but the range max should be at 15m not 20m imo. I don't want it back to its "glory days" of 2012/14 Shredder was originally op from the changes, but the IR3 varient got the really short end of the stick with the current changes. (unless they rebuffed its ttk to .7, the IR3 fires at almost .85 for a weapon thats "somewhat" cqc to mid. Overall worse than pmg/oca when it comes to that variant. No real dislike towards the suggestion. It could use the accuracy Strife - Loved the shotgun, one of my favorite, I disagree though, the range is really lacking since they nerfed its range a lot with the changes. Can't even run IR3 on it anymore to fix that issue. Used to love doing 2 hit kills at ~1s at 10m and 3 at 15m with the massive ttk, but due to the massive ttk increase that comes with IR and the changes, you really can't do it, let alone survive in cqc if you do put IR3 on... I'd say put the range up to 12/13m from the current. I think it's what? 6/7m? at the moment?

The only argument i have against that is every other weapon actually needs to you to be out in the open partially to kill someone over the ttk while shotguns just hit a corner partially and fire and run back in. 3x isn't hard for shotguns and is rather forgiving. 4x I can agree with but due to ease it shouldn't be a consistent 3. Consistent 2 for CSG at 8-9m, and JG for 5-7. Nfas should be fine at 0-5 and 1 extra added on every meter after 6. Strife should be back at 2 shotting at 12m consistently though. That way SMG's kick in fine at 12m+ because oca is most effective from 20-, and pmg from ~15-25m.

It's not cheating if the game creators said its okay to use after reviewing it. Shush

i mean, it honestly was aside from ntec and hvr back in the day. Easy 2 hit kill, corner pop like no tomorrow, oca's stood little to no chance in cqc. It reigned supreme for sub 10(12)m fights

I think they have done well so far. The balance changes are good and meh on how i feel it should have been done, but they did buff most of the underpowered weapons to feasibility so i'm glad about that.

If you have like 8 "assault rifles" in game and the only one that 95% of the population uses is the NTEC, it needs to be brought in line with the rest. It's rather simple when it comes to that. HVR imo has been fine since they have been doing away with qsing, but the methods to do so have been meh. Rather than just fix QS3 to have a downside they nerf the sniper instead lel. Shotguns didn't need the range nerf imo, but that kinda had to happen due to the shotgun rework and overdamage i miss the old Strife, would have been fine with the current changes. OCA is fine with its back to near .7ttk. I don't even know why they even touched it to decrease ttk. AR's got a slight nerf in general, but ntec still is meh at least it can't reach as far as easily damage wise as it takes an extra hit. You either had bullets that disappeared in thin air (which makes no sense but it was funny nonetheless) or bullets that can go to 100m but do very little damage so you tickle people. Quite frankly i'm fine with the current damage drop changes. It may not make sense to you but it allows weapons to reach out of their niche at a cost. Which is how it should be, unless you want to go back to "here's the range suck it if the enemy isn't in it" which is fine imo it likely would have fixed some of the issues with the ntec honestly

I'll put it this way, I use every underpowered weapon in the game, including putting hb3 on a star and can do just fine. But if I really really really want to win without a doubt? I use an ntec. Why? Because it's piss easy to handle with experience and gets more kills than other rifles. I put on an ntec and don't worry about if "i'll take that guy out in the open right then or if i need to wait another 1-2 seconds until i "know" he is unable to get away." Its vesatile, managable, easy to use, good ttk, capable of facestomping every rifle in range. Put 2 people of the same skill with ntec vs star, ntec is likely going to be on top. It's not hard to figure out why the are hoping to nerf its versatility slightly. When out of f2p rifles you have ntec and star and 9/10 people use ntec. ps. just because everyone can use something broken doesnt make it not broken pps. Just because people want to use off meta guns like medusa or weapons that fit into different ranges and niches than ntec like volcano and atac, doesnt make the ntec any less borked.

stk increases to 6 immediately after 10m, the FR0Gs have no overdamage whatsoever iirc RIP after a year or so of using it i didnt realize that. I guess it explains why i kept thinking i should have killed a guy in 5 hits but didnt so i thought i missed...

i've used it a lot, its really good to outfire obeyas in cqc pistol fights, and it has the same ttk as a .45 that is much faster than the fbw. It's damage drop doesn't really hit until 15-20m (i think its closer to 20) where it becomes a 6hit and same ttk as fbw with a little less accuracy, and dont bother at 20+ unless necessary because it'll fall flat. Obeya is much more forgiving and the normal meta, and the .45 is not nearly as forgiving but has more ranged usage. So it's really up to you, it has its uses, especially when using close to long range guns where you need that close range bump. It had been my favorite for the longest time, but now i feel often better off using a pdw or .45 simply due to the range.

they did that before, but it always ends up being a spawn camp fest. Until they fix some major flaws at least...

the temp fix did nothing to the broken pellet mechanics, and the ir3 temp “fix” just removed the range but left the controversial rof decrease they are keeping the pellet mechanics but scaling it down via more pellets

the new change makes it better for weapons with longer ranges than cqc ones, on cqc weapons it's pretty much just a downside. As they now give 1/2/3 "+" 5/10/15% range. So an AR with the proto A changes will get ~9.75m range increase with 45m range (i think thats how it works) while something with 30m will still get ~7.5m, but cqc weapons don't really benefit from it due to range limitations. (shredder and maybe pmg are the only ones that it boosts significatly in range, however that makes them extremely bad in cqc engagements.) An obeya however will have ~12m range increased, significantly helping it.

the change is fine for longer range weapons, however it doesnt have much place for closer range ones. There was a suggestion somewhere about a shotgun choke to influence shotguns differently than how IR3 does now, it would be interesting to see that implemented in IR3s place

except the increased damage makes more pellets so it can't really be said to be a buff, as each pellet does less damage you have to hit more pellets to 1 hit. Except they said make any suggestions and put them into suggestions on forums offtopic: and wth downvoted my OP xD guess shredder wasn't "nerfed" enough for them.

It was nice to see and spend time with the Devs and GM's in-game, so thank you for taking the time to do so! I noticed there was no thread at least in social for feedback yet so here's one. --------------------------------- Open PVP didn't work out too well, it was somewhat enjoyable but definitely nerve wracking trying to figure out if the out of mission guy next to you is going to kill you or not. Luckily this is being addressed. Gm presence was great to see, though I do agree it would be cool to see them as split between ENF and Crim so that more people get to play against the GM team during events/testing. Testing: For testing I only used a few guns during the testing time (shredder pr3 preset with ir3) and strife. So I'll mention my experience with them and opinion. 1. Shredder got a much needed decrease in effectiveness, at least that would be for the base variants, the IR3 (pr3) version which has now only a partial gain in range in comparison to before sadly got hit with the extended rof decrease giving it a roughly 1s ttk for a weapon with ~25m range. The weapon no longer effectively 3 hits as easily, which can be seen as a positive however, that often leaves it severely lacking in most situations in the closer range ranges even against ARs with its now very high ttk. The base variants without ir3, should however be much more balanced than before the changes and won't have the same issue as the pr3. But I cannot give a full review of them as I didn't use them. Next 2. Strife, I'm unsure what to make of the change I didn't notice too much of a difference, however, it wasn't exactly too strong before imo, especially since it's high ttk kept it in check. So while I'm not against the rework it's not something I feel was needed. The strife itself isn't used very often in general because most other shotguns are better choices in most, if not all situations due to its ttk, so having a high Overkill for it isn't something I'm against. Didn't get to play around too much with the ar changes, but a test beforehand showed ntec could 7/8 hit at 52m which seems to have the desired effect for AR's. So that's a plus. Further observations: IR3 Ir3 as a as a mod or even as a preset on shotguns seem to hurt them with very little to no benefit now. Before it was used as a way to improve the weapon with no downside, now that the mod has a downside, any shotguns with it often become worse for little gain due to the rof changes and at most ~4 to 6m average to gain. If you account for spread on shotguns it may not be a very good trade. This difference forces them to lose out against their peers due to ttk differences. The mod at one point being preset made sense. With the new changes I am unsure whether it can holds true for so little to gain with the current downside. On smgs IR3 has a little better effect, however, most times they aren't effective in reaching and taking out enemies at their max ranges in the first place so it isn't likely going to see much if any use on many smgs if any. Due to losing out in cqc and unable to make use of the extra range.

Absolutely, we need more beards

So, 7pm est?

I mean, i've used it for years, when it was uselses and not, so ill probably still use it anyways even when balanced. /shrug, as long as its not nerfed to the ground like i keep seeing people suggest.

I mean, unless you have seen a different consensus like "nerf it to the ground and make it no different than the nfas" which i've seen people post. The general idea i've seen when it comes to actually balancing it within its niche is that it 100% needs at least its TTK increased back to ~.85, and its overkill damage decreased (from the shotgun buff) so its less forgiving. There's other suggestions i've seen as well like "decrease range to like 10-15m" and "nerf hard damage to the ground" but those i've seen come from people who neither know its niche or hate it with a passion and want it completely useless.