Noob_Guardian

Shotguns were overpowered years ago as well, point? Remember when every match had a csg or jg? "but thats not oooopppp" and then it got nerfed and shotguns stopped being used because they weren't cqc pwners in mission districts anymore. TTK for mine is always going to be .84, i fixed the post after I rechecked, i mentioned why in other post responding. Dropoff is 20m because THAT is its intended NICHE, its not meant to compete against the csg and jg on equal footing in cqc like you ASSUME (really would make is absolutely useless having to cqc marksman mode a weapon against other shotguns), its meant for a range past their range, aka 15-30m. You even buy the thing before this whole "shotgun buff"? I was killing people with mine at 25m LONG before this buff happened, the only difference is now its a reliable gun, and people HATE that fact because now people are using a gun that they never had to face before let alone compete against. The problem is they released the modable varients.

Mine is the IR3 preset with a .83/4 ttk the normal one is lower. I've never seen the CJ shredder, infact, in the last 2 weeks i have seen exactly 0 cj 3 shredders. Z-E-R-O, in fact the majority of shotguns i've seen are csgs and jgs, NOT shredders. The Range is ofc ~22/23m for 3 shot 4+ onward for the cj3 variant. CJ3 actually INCREASES spread btw, not decreases, ever actually test that on any shotgun? it's right there in the fine print on the mod I was thinking .99 there because i forgot I already applied IR3 for the .84 lol my bad on that fixed in post. Now, do I think thats broke with Cj? I can see the issue, but the only way to fix would be to nerf the ttk even more and thus nerfing the already balanced preset variant. Because nerfing anything else would make it worthless to use, especially against the current CSG/JG/OCA/PMG. The only thing that makes it stand out and keep it somewhat in a balanced state is that it dominates in it's 20-30m niche where very few other weapons actually compete. SMGS worsen past 15m especially at 20m, and AR's are decent there, but BXXN is right, the ATAC is really good at 20m-30m and has a .7ttk, actually faster with cj but that's its only real competitor other than ntec and carbine. That's not an "shredder is op" fault, that's simply because it is in its own niche. Easy to use doesn't mean broken, star is easy but its not broken, hvr is easy but isn't broken, atac is easy but not broken, far is easy but not broken.

if it makes him feel better i had someone get fragged and then 4 hit with shredder at ~30m while standing in the open vs me with cover then cry OP.

My shredder has a ttk of ~.84s up to 23/25m. That's pretty balanced for a cqc weapon in the 30m range when you consider every other weapon in its niche, i've also never faced a shredder that i've not been able to beat in cqc without a hitch. Shredder is meant to have a niche up to 25/30mm, its niche isn't "cqc" with the jg/csg, its niche is further than that due to its high ttk. Strife doesn't follow this but it does massive damage instead. Also, their "accuracy and spread" consistency are also what severely hurts them in cqc in comparison to jg and csg which have a bigger spread causing more pellots to hit if innacurate. at 5m slightly miss with a shredder you've missed most if not all your shot, csg/jg still hits. Shredder has always had a 30m range, the difference is that it was always outttk'd by ntecs and other guns because you could fire 3 hits at 15m and kill someone, do it again and take 5 for no reason other than hitreg or 3 at 25 one moment and then 8 the next. The shotguns were NEVER balanced around fragile. Shredder fairly consistently hits its ttk in 20-30m at 3-5/6 hits, yes, but that's also a .84-1.68 to .99-1.88 ttk. I had someone today say my shredder was op after getting hit with a frag and being 4 hit at ~30m with a shredder, no joke he stood in the open at ~30m after being hit with a grenade and got hit for ~1.3 seconds and then cried OP. Though I will say - In before they nerf the Kickback JMB Shotgun pistol for having a 3 hit 18m range.

After the last range nerf on the shredder, it's still within its range and not increased (i think that change went into effect, i use the IR3 variant with like a ~.84 ttk or something crazy and it doesn't feel much different other than needing 1-2 bullets more in the 20-30m range at times, i dont try to fire past 30m much since it takes a lot of shots) while true about smg's, SMGS arent normally used past 20m nor should they be (other than PMG), where the shredder's range shines because the only other competitors are AR's and carbines. Even OCA and PMG start to lose out to rifles at 20-30m. PMG has always been the longer range SMG as well and the OCA won't do well due past 20m due to accuracy reticule size at that range and it never really has. So PMG is its only 20-30m competitor other than other ARMAS weapons like the S1-NA. I rarely see PMGS now, only JG/csg/ntec I have a LOT of enemies charge me by running in the open then cry op, or have 2 stand across the street, after I hit them with a nade, and fire at me in the open while I have cover and say its "op" for killing them with 4 hits each because "shotguns shouldn't hit 20-30m" (like what?!?) That's the gun's NICHE. While it's firerate isnt making me spray, it's still long enough in cqc and even at 20m to kill me if i'm not conservative with how I play, and especially how I position myself. The biggest problem i've noticed is that while i'm using this A LOT of people will rush in with no cover or run across a road with no cover 20-30m away, and then complain when they died, despite any other weapon in the niche doing the EXACT same thing, if not better. While I agree that ttk means nothing if you can't hit, it is NOT my responsibility to ensure that an enemy can hit me easily at all times, and I pull similar stats to what I would while maining NTEC, OCA, or HVR.

Ironic a lot of people play shredder but i havnt had a problem against them. I also own one though, and find it funny to use my shredder with a .84+(.84*.17) ttk and have people cry op. Like dude, my ttk is almost 1 second at 25m and you're complaining? I assume this is because it isn't the stronger (or the most annoying depending on the points of view) of the bunch. For me it's because i've had a shredder forever and i barely used it because it lost to EVERYTHING, even at 15m you couldn't 3 hit at times even with the .84 ttk which also got it killed all the time from ntec/oca/pmg/other shotguns. Now my ttk is ~.92-.96 and i'm having people cry about my shredder 3 hitting at 25m which was possible but somewhat rare before but now easily done with proper centermass tracking. Like i'm out ttkd now by every cqc-midrange weapon in the game even the ODIN series, and i'm still getting people crying op because they havn't learned to counter it. It's not OP based on it's ttk at all, its op because people run in the open and expect to not get shot down.

or maybe it's not broken? I feel like the current shredder nerf hype is simply because people don't know how to handle the gun nor counter it.

Carbine is fine as is imo, most people don't "strafe" it like an atac, they hold sprint and do janky hitbox/character movement (as it always has been). Before it didn't matter so much because sprintshooting was a broken af thing that allowed people to get hard to hit. Increasing its effectiveness would be a straight up buff with no downsides to a weapon that doesn't "need" a change and would likely put it back into, "broke" category depending on how strong the changes are. Currently is already is a high effort high reward weapon, and it does fine against smg's past their 0-15m dominance rance. It isn't meant to be a mid ranged weapon, and hence no buff, Carbine is meant to by a hybrid rifle for between mid and cqc. It's got a range of 40m plays best at 15-30m, and needs no buff to match that of AR's "45m" because that's not meant to be there. AR's got a nerf because of impeding on mid-long range rifles. No weapon out of marksman can very effectively hit at 45m, there's no need to put carbine into that so it can. Most people moved from carbine because all the "edgelords" left or switched to n-tec (which is getting reworked). When I use Oscar, and i always use cj on it, since it still decreases the max RoF regardless, it still fires faster with cj.

Mojang Money is worse.... 10 minutes to turn in 2 vehicles.... 10 minutes each stage that is.... Also i hate getting called into no opp missions so i do /abandon mission at times, othertimes i need to avoid a dethreat or something so I leave. So it's a no for me.

You are right that the damage drop did mess up a lot, however it's also nice to have imo. Though I do miss just standing outside of range laughing while the enemy tries hitting me and can't. I think i'll put up a suggestion to make bullets disappear after max damage falloff range "at least" sometime. Won't do much, but would be fine imo.

the problem is that you dont feel dead until almost 85% damage, not 65

I agree, red mods currently have decent downsides. However due to the similar TTK increases from both, it may be worth using HB again on some weapons.

It's mostly for SMGS and Snipers, it's not really meant for Rifles and the like. Ironic

Doesn't matter, he could be using fractional based math, and since its divisible by 10 it doesnt matter. a 6 hit kill would be worth a try at least on OTW even if it doesn't go live. The weapon consistently loses out due to the extra shot

most CQB are around 0,6-0.7 secs TTK (there are some excepctions). And if all ARs would have 0,75 TTK, It wouldnt make much difference. Sacrificing 0,05 secs of TTK for gaining +20m range is completely out of questions. no one was suggesting to add that much range to anything.

Yeah i do, however they also made shotguns and smg's TTK's slightly faster than .70 as well. Unless you mean that NTEC, FAR, Frenzy, etc should have a .75ttk same as star

I have always said that the STAR should have a .7ttk rather than a .75.

They increased the STAR's bloom recovery a while ago, i believe it should have almost the same recovery and stats as that as the FAR except it has a slower TTK by .05s now. I am sure you've used the far before so you know what i'm talking about? The point of increasing the N-TECS range while nerfing its ttk was to further allow for ranged play while staying balanced by decreasing its cqc effectiveness and allow STAR to move into that position better. I did think about how it would affect the Obeya as well, which is why i only said 55m with a .75/.77 ttk. Far has a ttk of .7 at 50, Obeya 60m at .84, so 55m would be ~.77. If the damage drop is correct on the db, I can calculate that at 59m it would take 7 hits for the ntec to kill without missing at 60m with a 55m range, which would mean not a .75 ttk at 60m, but a slightly higher one causing a .87ttk at 59m, Obeya can 5 hit up to 69m for .84. Improved rifling 3 Is it 18%? Now? would give the NTEC a range of ~66m to 5 hit however it would still have a .88-.9ttk to reach out that far miss once and its going to go 1s+, still giving slightly more range and a better ttk to the Obeya. If you put IR3 on the obeya it reaches to ~76m at ~1s. Higher than the ntec's but if the ntec misses once, its going to the obeya at that range. While I can agree that this change to the NTEC would push it into Obeya territory, I do not believe that it would outclass the obeya more than it already can with a .7 ttk for 54m (max) of the obeya's 69m (max) range. Though I'd be happy even without the range decrease.

My suggestion would still allow STAR to compete against ARMAS. While I agree it is often underrated, it is still worse TTK wise than similar armas weaponry. Most AR's from Armas has ~.7 ttk S1-FA, Far for example, then you look at other armas weapons like the S1-NA, ATAC, that used to be OP SMG (forget its name even though I own it lel) etc, all have .7 ttks. Stars accuracy regain is similar to that of the FAR so putting it on similar terms as the FAR wouldn't be making it worse. (If you look at stats the only major difference between Star and FAR, is the TTK difference). I agree that it is good that a f2p weapon can handle well against Armas, however the reason everyone flocks to NTEC is because it's simply better in most situations past ~0-20m+ where a large amount of combat occurs. Hence my overall suggestion.

Star: TTK .75s

N-TEC, HVR, OBEYa, and Obir team comps are rather boring to face especially when the objective is IN THE OPEN. Oh look spawn and fire instantly on point, how "fun" I stay away from waterfront as much as I can due to district optimization and crappier gameplay. If I wanted an hvr fest i'd go to baylann, though a few "groups" have been starting up on financial lately and its toxic af

to prevent district stalking i'd say I /who so I can find friends and figure out what opp to expect... It's rather dumb to remove it, I mean Jericho ONLY has 1 silver district, it isn't going to be hard for any "streamsniper" or w/e to pop in and find their target.

To be fair, you can now see enemy car spawns on map, or its been like that for a while now unless they changed it, though you do have a point. I've had several players who while the server was lagging out from a DDOS could pretty much TTK you while you shot a whole mag and instadied a second later after hearing only a handful of shots and not a spray. Entire mission was DDOS lagout and the one guy ended up with like 18 kills and 6 deaths while everyone else was negative, would spray fire and try killing one guy for like 5-10+ seconds during the lag but the guy can somehow kill you at almost ttk. (Always amazes me, not) thats like... half of jerichos silver district xD

Personally i'd increase ntec's ttk to .75 or .77 and its range to 55m, and decrease the stars to .7 as it is more cqc and the ntec is always played as a far mid range (50-60m) anyways. That way it can reach further, has a higher ttk than star would, but a lower TTK of the obeya with a .84ttk which has 60m range. I feel it would be far more balanced that way.

always supported this still will