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kurbstomp88

Outlaw mc themed charecters

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So I feel im going to regret this post because im drawing attention to details about my own character that have apparently flown under the radar for the last 7 years... as drawn to my attention from the nudity post .my character is outlaw mc themed and has certain symbols that may be seen as offensive but they are subtle and match the theme of both my character and the game. how can u have an all out nothing can be construed as racist in a game  sole based and designed around gang wars and vigilantes... for those that have never been apart of the life style most gangs and all mc clubs are racially biased and motivated 

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seems to me like it would be obnoxiously easy to make an mc themed character without potentially racist symbols, unless you actually want racist symbols

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7 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

seems to me like it would be obnoxiously easy to make an mc themed character without potentially racist symbols, unless you actually want racist symbols

then you clearly have never been around outlaw mc. the back of the "cut"(the leather vest with the patch) is always a pair of ss bolts among other racially motivated symbols I grew up out law mc and used to be in one until it stopped being about family and brotherhood and just was about drugs and intimidation. and frankly were is the line drawn ive seen players named kuntakinta and black panther themed characters but the only thing blatantly stated against the rules are your typical anything to do with white pride or hitler is not allowed... I mean if it really comes down to it ill just flip them backwards and now its an hindu peace symbol even tho 99% of the world doesn't know the difference     

Edited by kurbstomp88
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Untitled_zpsphbocxrg.png

this would be one of the symbols that I have been using on all my toons for 7 years a back patch but per the ruling I just saw could get me banned and im not about to lose 700 dollars over a image that frankly I feel bad for u if u are so weak that is some how affects you 

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Kinda off-topic and pointless, but. why have a motorbike themed character in a game with no motorbikes.

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7 minutes ago, Nanometic said:

Kinda off-topic and pointless, but. why have a motorbike themed character in a game with no motorbikes.

because its the lifestyle I grew up in and in a game about criminals bikers are who I side towards

 

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3 hours ago, kurbstomp88 said:

because its the lifestyle I grew up in and in a game about criminals bikers are who I side towards

 

 

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Man really out here comparing black panther to hitler. Nice.

 

also the name ”kurbstomp88” certainly doesn’t have any racial undertones? Nahh hes just interested in the history

:^^^)

Edited by Dezire
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18 minutes ago, Excalibur! said:

I side with the helicopter guys, but there are not helicopters... what a shame.

Good sir, I'll have you know my death theme is the opening theme from Airwolf!!!

oQN-hm.gif

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You don't need racist symbols to be an outlaw biker. I don't understand the problem here. I know they are common in that community, my dad is a biker, but they aren't required. Just be creative and think about all the things that are allowed instead of what isn't. Make some boob/pinup symbols if you want shock value and use strong language. There are serveral safer ways of expressing similar vibes. 

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I'm pretty sure the Iron Cross is acceptable and I've seen MC stuff without the swastika or the SS flash.

 

That said, I'm British.

 

Pic below of the vest done well.

 

E6B4742m.jpg

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7 hours ago, Dezire said:

Man really out here comparing black panther to hitler. Nice.

I don't think you're doing his arguments justice by putting everything he said under the "hitler" umbrella.

Besides, you provided no single argument as to why the comparison isn't relevant, so you'll have to expand on that with actual arguments one or stop talking, because it's weighing down the discussion into insignificance.

7 hours ago, Dezire said:

also the name ”kurbstomp88” certainly doesn’t have any racial undertones?

Playing the devil's advocate here, but there is no dirrect racialised content. Or do you suggest we ban the number "88"?

You're bringing no solution and all complains. You don't seem like a productive person.

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Just now, Onadan said:

I don't think you're doing his arguments justice by putting everything he said under the "hitler" umbrella.

Besides, you provided no single argument as to why the comparison isn't relevant, so you'll have to expand on that with actual arguments one or stop talking, because it's weighing down the discussion into insignificance.

11 hours ago, kurbstomp88 said:

and frankly were is the line drawn ive seen players named kuntakinta and black panther themed characters but the only thing blatantly stated against the rules are your typical anything to do with white pride or hitler is not allowed

hes not doing his own arguments any justice lmao, comparing 2 fictional pop culture characters with a very real hitler

 

aside from that neither kunta kinte or black panther are actually racist despite dealing with heavily racism-centric themes, nor are the any laws im aware of that prohibit the display of associated imagery 

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1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

hes not doing his own arguments any justice lmao, comparing 2 fictional pop culture characters with a very real hitler

You're not being fair either. He didn't say hitler, but "anything to do with white pride or hitler". So that would include the toothbrush mustache, the name adolf, being born in austria, etc...

Also I'm of the impression that the "black panther" he might be refering to might not be the comic hero eponymous to a recent movie.

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

 neither [...] are actually racist despite dealing with heavily racism-centric themes

I'm getting mixed signal here.

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25 minutes ago, Onadan said:

You're not being fair either. He didn't say hitler, but "anything to do with white pride or hitler". So that would include the toothbrush mustache, the name adolf, being born in austria, etc...

Also I'm of the impression that the "black panther" he might be refering to might not be the comic hero eponymous to a recent movie.

I'm getting mixed signal here.

the black panthers im referring to are most definitely not the movie they are the black run hate grp that targeted and attacked whites in the 70s essential the black kkk. and racism is racism doesn't matter the color of your skin. 

 

4 hours ago, ky4 said:

You don't need racist symbols to be an outlaw biker. I don't understand the problem here. I know they are common in that community, my dad is a biker, but they aren't required. Just be creative and think about all the things that are allowed instead of what isn't. Make some boob/pinup symbols if you want shock value and use strong language. There are serveral safer ways of expressing similar vibes. 

Being in hog or any mc with a 1 piece patch isn't a "biker" they are what bikers call yuppies. 

8 hours ago, Lign said:

 

vegasrun030.jpg 

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I grew up in a family connected to MC's so it was only fitting that i made one in APB.

Warms my old heart to see players who still enjoy the MC life style, even if it is only in a game.

The first MC i did in APB was C.R.O.W. and i still have the clan today, its rather dead, but idc. 

Crow%202018_zpsfuesuas5.jpg

 

Then my step son wanted one so i made Curbstomp for him.

splash119_zpsmxsif1ua.jpg

 

Both were very easy to create without using any offensive material.

Keep the MC scene in San Paro alive! (even if there aren't bikes in the game)

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4 minutes ago, kurbstomp88 said:

Being in hog or any mc with a 1 piece patch isn't a "biker" they are what bikers call yuppies. 

huh? I never mentioned anything about quantity I was simply saying you can substitute the racist ones to safer ones and still get the same outlaw-ish vibe on your costume.

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3 minutes ago, ky4 said:

huh? I never mentioned anything about quantity I was simply saying you can substitute the racist ones to safer ones and still get the same outlaw-ish vibe on your costume.

the fact u don't know the difference between a 1 piece patch and a 3 piece patch just further proves your dad isn't a biker ( a hint for u 1 piece patches aren't outlaw mc but just a mc much like car clubs)

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11 hours ago, kurbstomp88 said:

and frankly were is the line drawn ive seen players named kuntakinta and black panther themed characters

The line is drawn at displaying non-virtual hatred towards other races. Kind of like "88" in some contexts can be associated with Hitler (H being the 8th letter in the alphabet, the chant "Heil Hitler" consisting of two words starting with the letter H etc.). Presuming innocence of the numbers in conjunction with the term "curbstomp" is either gullibility or malevolence.

 

42 minutes ago, Onadan said:

Also I'm of the impression that the "black panther" he might be refering to might not be the comic hero eponymous to a recent movie.

42 minutes ago, Onadan said:

I'm getting mixed signal here. 

Kunta Kinte is a character supposed to depict the fate shared by a large number of slaves taken from Africa - loss of freedom, fighting for oneself, remaining by one's values despite facing opposition etc.

Black Panther - the superhero movie - deals with (and discusses) issues of identity and isolationism, both of them being directly tied to the issue of racism while not actually displaying racist values. It's one thing to talk about racism, it's another to actually express it. It's not that hard of an idea to comprehend.

 

The only case where there's something wrong with "a Black Panther character" is if it concerns the Black Panther Party and/or the New Black Panther Party, both arguably being hate groups.

 

11 hours ago, kurbstomp88 said:

this would be one of the symbols that I have been using on all my toons for 7 years a back patch but per the ruling I just saw could get me banned and im not about to lose 700 dollars over a image that frankly I feel bad for u if u are so weak that is some how affects you 

Ah yes, calling those who take offense to your stunts "weak". That'll surely work.

You entirely deserve getting banned for this kind of symbolism, especially considering this has been going on for seven years - a time when the ruling was still in place.

 

Perhaps you do not comprehend why people take issue to symbols like the double lightning bolt referencing the Schutzstaffel (SS). It's a symbol that is literally associated with Nazi Germany - a regime responsible for literally the deadliest conflict in human history, with over 60 million people dead as a result of the Second World War. It is a black mark on the history of Germany, which even that country itself would rather forget and never allow such inhumane times to happen again.

It's cute how you went for the "i'll just mirror the swastika and it's a peace symbol" approach, by the way. The Nazi Party literally started using it to try to force the association of good luck and auspiciousness with the Aryan race, which they perceived to be superior to every other race. As time went on, this created a social stigma, because the Western world after the world remembered the absolutely heinous shit the Nazis have done under that symbol.

 

18 minutes ago, kurbstomp88 said:

and racism is racism doesn't matter the color of your skin. 

Yeah. So why do you insist on using racist symbolism if you're clearly against it?

 

If the "biker culture" cannot exist without displaying symbols with racist/hateful meanings, then let it fucking die.

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13 minutes ago, kurbstomp88 said:

the fact u don't know the difference between a 1 piece patch and a 3 piece patch just further proves your dad isn't a biker ( a hint for u 1 piece patches aren't outlaw mc but just a mc much like car clubs)

Ok. I gave you a suggestion and your answer is to basically attack me. @Stillbourne just posted a wonderful character design and he did it without offensive material. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by ky4
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22 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

The line is drawn at displaying non-virtual hatred towards other races. Kind of like "88" in some contexts can be associated with Hitler (H being the 8th letter in the alphabet, the chant "Heil Hitler" consisting of two words starting with the letter H etc.). Presuming innocence of the numbers in conjunction with the term "curbstomp" is either gullibility or malevolence.

 

Kunta Kinte is a character supposed to depict the fate shared by a large number of slaves taken from Africa - loss of freedom, fighting for oneself, remaining by one's values despite facing opposition etc.

Black Panther - the superhero movie - deals with (and discusses) issues of identity and isolationism, both of them being directly tied to the issue of racism while not actually displaying racist values. It's one thing to talk about racism, it's another to actually express it. It's not that hard of an idea to comprehend.

 

The only case where there's something wrong with "a Black Panther character" is if it concerns the Black Panther Party and/or the New Black Panther Party, both arguably being hate groups.

 

Ah yes, calling those who take offense to your stunts "weak". That'll surely work.

You entirely deserve getting banned for this kind of symbolism, especially considering this has been going on for seven years - a time when the ruling was still in place.

 

Perhaps you do not comprehend why people take issue to symbols like the double lightning bolt referencing the Schutzstaffel (SS). It's a symbol that is literally associated with Nazi Germany - a regime responsible for literally the deadliest conflict in human history, with over 60 million people dead as a result of the Second World War. It is a black mark on the history of Germany, which even that country itself would rather forget and never allow such inhumane times to happen again.

It's cute how you went for the "i'll just mirror the swastika and it's a peace symbol" approach, by the way. The Nazi Party literally started using it to try to force the association of good luck and auspiciousness with the Aryan race, which they perceived to be superior to every other race. As time went on, this created a social stigma, because the Western world after the world remembered the absolutely heinous shit the Nazis have done under that symbol.

 

Yeah. So why do you insist on using racist symbolism if you're clearly against it?

 

If the "biker culture" cannot exist without displaying symbols with racist/hateful meanings, then let it fucking die.

im not against it I strongly believe people should have pride in were they come from and there culture im against double standards. u know they kind that promote BLM and Antifa as activist grps while the confederate flag was all but removed from American history for being "racist".... and not gonna lie im actually impressed with your knowledge of the Subtext of certain things and u say the line is drawn with non virtual hatred towards other races does that mean all the br players that bash America and Americans are also going to be banned.  and about the atrocities committed by hitler during war are no worse then how isis or any other Muslim extremist hate grp act today or how stallin acted in his regime or how the majority of chinas super power leaders or going even farther back the atrocities of Viking and highlanders... they promote a highlander clothing pack yet they would no murder and pillage entire villages. how can u come down on a single person or ideology while turning a blind eye to the rest of it. I can understand running around yelling racial slurs and attacking people for the color of there skin and harassing people is not ok. but to ban someone for bolts is ridiculous

 

Edited by kurbstomp88

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1 minute ago, kurbstomp88 said:

im not against it I strongly believe people should have pride in were they come from and there culture

Okay, so why does "your culture" require Nazi symbolism to be expressed?

 

2 minutes ago, kurbstomp88 said:

u know they kind that promote BLM and Antifa as activist grps while the confederate flag was all but removed from American history for being "racist" 

...that's mostly because yes, that is literally the case.

 

Black Lives Matter is a group united behind an expression of protest towards the mistreatment, abuse, hatred and violence aimed at the African-American populace of the United States.

Antifa is, as the name suggests, a form of opposition towards fascist groups ("anti-fascism"), except their methods involve direct confrontation instead of political opposition. (This does not mean that I support all of their endeavours; violence is never the solution, no matter which side of any conflict is responsible.)

The Confederate flag was used by the side of the American Civil War which advocated for their "God-given right" to take away the liberty of black people and use them as slaves.

 

Choosing to defend the erasure of the Confederate flag in public context is a stupid hill to die on. However, I entirely agree that it's a bad idea to try to completely erase it instead of, for example, including it in history books as a reminder of which symbol was used by advocates/supporters of those notions.

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11 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

The line is drawn at displaying non-virtual hatred towards other races.

And how would you go about determining non-virtual to virtual hatred?

13 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

 "88" in some contexts can be associated with Hitler [...] Presuming innocence of the numbers in conjunction with the term "curbstomp" is either gullibility or malevolence.

Feel free to try and prove your unbased claim. However, you can't just claim things as if they were truth and expect me to accept them with no real effort on your part.

14 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Black Panther - the superhero movie -

As we've established before, we're not talking about the movie. You lack reading comprehension.

 

15 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Perhaps you do not comprehend why people take issue to symbols like the double lightning bolt referencing the Schutzstaffel (SS). It's a symbol that is literally associated with Nazi Germany - a regime responsible for literally the deadliest conflict in human history, with over 60 million people dead as a result of the Second World War.

 

17 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

 literally the deadliest conflict in human history

How is that relevant? I think that most people agree that people dying is a bad thing and that war brings sorrow. Platitudes aren't arguments.

18 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

 a black mark on the history of Germany, which even that country itself would rather forget

Source? Because I seriously doubt Germany ellected you to speak on its behalf, so I'm not willing to just swallow your opinion as truth here either.

Besides, if what you said were true, it wouldn't be in history manuals and there wouldn't be any museums dedicated to the events around that period.

 

21 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Perhaps you do not comprehend why people take issue to symbols like the double lightning bolt referencing the Schutzstaffel (SS). [...]

Yeah. So why do you insist on using racist symbolism if you're clearly against it?

Then perhaps you should educate yourself on the topic of semiotics. What is important isn't the symbol per se, but the intent to which it is used to denote a certain meaning.

In this case it can be argued that it's solely been used to demarcate itself from other bikers groups percieved as less hardcore and/or posers.

25 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

You entirely deserve getting banned for this kind of symbolism, especially considering this has been going on for seven years - a time when the ruling was still in place.

Rules are to be enforced at the discretion of the authorities. You can't force them to actually enforce a rule as they have no obligation to do so. At least as far as APB:R goes, and we're only concerned with that.

Admitedly, you could try to sue them for this in the state their servers are hosted, or in other states because their service is accessible from them.

But are you really willing to go this far to prevent someone, whom means no ill, from using some symbolics with no intended hate behind them?

 

 

While you're entirely right in that the conotation of those symbols (as opposed to the denotation) are admitedly of or akin to racist ideologies, taking it so seriously in the context of a biker avatar for a virtual online game is overblowing things way out of proportions. Especially since there is no harm intended and nobody actually bothered to report him and/or enforce the rules on him for a seven years period; esentially legitimising his claims that he isn't harmful.

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