Weapon Balance OTW Tweaks - E Testing Values

[Beastie 177]

Now we're closer to what we're happy to push to live, our next iteration only has one set of variations over the latter, labelled Weapon Prototype E. These are based on the previous C test stats with some differences, listed below. Rather than the Weapon Prototype District D District, we now have the Weapon Control Group District, which has the stats from the current live client, to allow us to test the stats we want to push live against those that actually are, and ensure they're improvements without going too overboard. The goal here is to end this test with changes that will end up with an improved weapon experience all around on live, even if we have to re-visit some of the weapons later to add a bit more oomph (it's no good having 'better' stats sit on OTW for months while we iterate, leaving the live servers less fun).

These changes are:

Rifling
Adjusting Rifling mod, reducing downside and improving upside. This is now +4, 8. 12 m range (rank 1, 2 3 respectively), and -5, -10, -15 % firerate / burst fire interval. There was a bug where the burst fire interval was only applying on ranks 1 and 2, so we've fixed that as well.

I've also added a set of weapon mods with no rating requirement that will be sent to players on OTW. This is one each of the rank 1 and 2 mods that would unlock through the roles, plus a few each of the rank 3 mods.

Weapon Balance

CSG - Test E: Added 5m to the effective and minimum range (15m effective, 25m min) from the C stats.
Anubis 'NCR' - Test E: Making some further tweaks to crosshair. Centre dot is now smaller and always white, so easier to focus on. Pulling in side elements a little.
Shredder - Test E: Increased range by 5m (25m effective, 45m min). Increase Fire Interval to 0.37 (from 0.42).
Adding Test Balance for STAR-556 'LCR' - Test E. There are only 3 variants of this weapon, all preset, and two of them have Rifling on them, which proportionally affects them quite a lot, given they're very slow firing as is. As such, this testing variant that has a slightly faster fire rate (0.27 vs 0.3) and adjusted pershotmodifier to ensure that the accuracy still performs in the same way (PershotModifier 0.525 from 6). Note: this means the PR1 and PR2 versions fire very slightly slower (but gain additional range from the upgraded positive of rifling) and the Old Glory fires slightly faster than before.


Text Fixes:
Double-Drum modification: Updated text to mention the increase in fire-rate that the ogre has (purely a text tweak for clarity, the effect has been on the ogre for years).
 

[CookiePuss 5382]

GG

[vsb 6174]

this is fine i guess

[SKay 207]

1 hour ago, LO_Beastie said:

1. Rifling
Adjusting Rifling mod, reducing downside and improving upside. This is now +4, 8. 12 m range (rank 1, 2 3 respectively), and -5, -10, -15 % firerate / burst fire interval. There was a bug where the burst fire interval was only applying on ranks 1 and 2, so we've fixed that as well.

I've also added a set of weapon mods with no rating requirement that will be sent to players on OTW. This is one each of the rank 1 and 2 mods that would unlock through the roles, plus a few each of the rank 3 mods.

2. Adding Test Balance for STAR-556 'LCR' - Test E There are only 3 variants of this weapon, all preset, and two of them have Rifling on them, which proportionally affects them quite a lot, given they're very slow firing as is. As such, this testing variant that has a slightly faster fire rate (0.27 vs 0.3) and adjusted pershotmodifier to ensure that the accuracy still performs in the same way (PershotModifier 0.525 from 6). Note: this means the PR1 and PR2 versions fire very slightly slower (but gain additional range from the upgraded positive of rifling) and the Old Glory fires slightly faster than before.

1. The range difference increase could throw some issues out there, but the RoF tradeoff does seem to offset this range increase. HVR going 102m isn't too different to going 97m at full damage, but the 5 meter increase is a decent upgrade to RoF.

2. The Old Glory is a very powerful thing. The slight RoF increase coupled with a pershotmodifier decrease could see big balance issues. It's a very potent rifle as it is, any slight buff could bring it into a questionable zone, even with it's limited circulation. I'd have a look again at the Old Glory.

But overall I'm glad there are still tweaks going on. Good work

[Queenie 8]

glad to see some numbers
 

[Knell 4]

You guys probably thought about it already, but what happens to the dismally slow STAR LCR with this rifling fix?

It's TTK is already 1.2 seconds... are you guys going to alter the gun to take into account the change?

Sorry, don't mean to nag but the realization hit me a few minutes ago.

[Spheri 66]

Ah good to see some tweaks to the crosshair of the NCR.
Will post results again when it has been properly tested.
On a side note, does the crosshair in the middle become red when a target is under it? Making the dot in the middle white is already helpful, but making it become red when someone's in your crosshair just helps visually. This also helps with friendly fire. (It becomes green when a friendly is in your crosshair)

Edited August 7, 2018 by Spherii

[AgentWatson 85]

2 hours ago, LO_Beastie said:

Rifling
Adjusting Rifling mod, reducing downside and improving upside. This is now +4, 8. 12 m range (rank 1, 2 3 respectively), and -5, -10, -15 % firerate / burst fire interval. There was a bug where the burst fire interval was only applying on ranks 1 and 2, so we've fixed that as well.

I've also added a set of weapon mods with no rating requirement that will be sent to players on OTW. This is one each of the rank 1 and 2 mods that would unlock through the roles, plus a few each of the rank 3 mods.


 

Rifling is the only thing in these notes I take issue with. I think the concessions you've made here with fire rate are far too lenient. I'm always obviously going to try it out first but I see issues with the reduction here. Personally I'd of preferred if you had just adjusted the range benefit of IR3 to the values listed with the previous value for firerate and then see how the newer adjustments would've been perceived. What I ultimately fear and see happening is people will just go with 1 or 2 of IR because these are ultimately as close to the original IR but without the crippling downside the original IR mod had. 

The other changes however you've made with regards to general weapon balance may be spot on and are in accordance with what a lot of the community has suggested. 

[Similarities 226]

IR change seems to be missing the mark still, but I'll have to test it out first to confirm my opinion, of course.

[Talla 85]

Thanks alot for posting this info.
Would be really great if the live version patch note states the final changes on each gun stat.

[Keshi 436]

time to go to OTW
EDIT:
Anubis feels..a bit better now tbh
Misery is nice

Will there be an F or is this the final test?

Edited August 7, 2018 by Keshi

[Poperon 141]

OTW feeling a lot better than Live Servers

Nice to see things to actually do / help, too bad i'm too busy this week

[Hexerin 1142]

4 hours ago, LO_Beastie said:

Adding Test Balance for STAR-556 'LCR' - Test E. There are only 3 variants of this weapon, all preset, and two of them have Rifling on them, which proportionally affects them quite a lot, given they're very slow firing as is. As such, this testing variant that has a slightly faster fire rate (0.27 vs 0.3) and adjusted pershotmodifier to ensure that the accuracy still performs in the same way (PershotModifier 0.525 from 6). Note: this means the PR1 and PR2 versions fire very slightly slower (but gain additional range from the upgraded positive of rifling) and the Old Glory fires slightly faster than before.

That's pretty cool, and it's also got me excited that my Old Glory is getting buffed. However... what do you plan to do to compensate all the other preset weapons that players own? To use myself as an example, my TAS20 Stock and Temptress are going to be kneecapped to uselessness because of the Improved Rifling change... and that's not okay. Buffs/nerfs are fine, but completely altering how something functions without compensation is not.

[vsb 6174]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

That's pretty cool, and it's also got me excited that my Old Glory is getting buffed. However... what do you plan to do to compensate all the other preset weapons that players own? To use myself as an example, my TAS20 Stock and Temptress are going to be kneecapped to uselessness because of the Improved Rifling change... and that's not okay. Buffs/nerfs are fine, but completely altering how something functions without compensation is not.

its not the first time nor is it the last

just deal with it

[SuperToaster 78]

Did CSG's range really needed to be buffed back up? It was already strong enough as it is on the test mission district god damn. It was literally what everybody was using because it was so strong lol

Anyways I'm about to test the IR changes I think you guys are heading in the right direction with those tweaks

[gogol 53]

17 minutes ago, SuperToaster said:

Did CSG's range really needed to be buffed back up? It was already strong enough as it is on the test mission district god damn. It was literally what everybody was using because it was so strong lol

Anyways I'm about to test the IR changes I think you guys are heading in the right direction with those tweaks

have fun test is super empty

ps: i like the LCR

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

All ok exept for IR downsides. You are basicaly making automatic marksman rifles out of any weapon. Take back those upsides to its original values, and do not touch rate of fire. Focus on max bloom mainly, and bloom per shot or recoil. This also gives more sence, cuz its like you get bigger punch as weapon shoots further.
This downsides would make it harder to full auto, therefore less effective in close range. Also naturaly increasing TTK instead of forcing it.

IR with rate of fire change would ruin a lot of weapons using it as we know them. Keep it for shotguns only.

Edited August 7, 2018 by AxeTurboAgresor

[Dezire 107]

Nice.

[Ebola-Chan 59]

seems great
though dont forget about jg
ive played with it on the stress test and it was really weak compared to the csg
could say it was even useless against it

the shredder change is nice im glad u added some range to it because it felt like it was needed
about csg thougj i dunno if it was needed

[Cocoonutz 11]

3 hours ago, Reyku said:

You guys probably thought about it already, but what happens to the dismally slow STAR LCR with this rifling fix?

It's TTK is already 1.2 seconds... are you guys going to alter the gun to take into account the change?

Sorry, don't mean to nag but the realization hit me a few minutes ago.

They mentioned in another post that they would have to change the LCR so the IR works properly with it

[Knell 4]

1 hour ago, Cocoonutz said:

4 hours ago, Reyku said:

You guys probably thought about it already, but what happens to the dismally slow STAR LCR with this rifling fix?

It's TTK is already 1.2 seconds... are you guys going to alter the gun to take into account the change?

Sorry, don't mean to nag but the realization hit me a few minutes ago.

They mentioned in another post that they would have to change the LCR so the IR works properly with it

Oh, silly me.

Thanks, lol

[Tobii 346]

I feel like some of these changes weren't really needed or should be changed a bit.

Rifling
 +4, 8. 12 m range -> +4, 8, 10 m range (or +3, 7, 10m)

Weapon Balance
CSG - Test E: Added 5m to the effective and minimum range (15m effective, 25m min) -> Revert this back to 10m effective, 20m min. Seeing as it will gain +12m with the IR changes. (maybe change the min damage distance to 15m instead of 10m. (e.g. 10 effective, 25m min.))
Shredder - Test E: Increased range by 5m (25m effective, 45m min). Increase Fire Interval to 0.37 (from 0.42). -> The pellet spread still makes this miss a lot on range as I stated in my previous suggestion post. The range is basically 37 meters now, only a few of the pellets will actually hit. Meaning that yes in theory it can kill up to 40'ish meters.. but will it? Most likely not. The fire interval is fine though.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Tobii
typo.

[Szambi 85]

Am I the only one that's missing 'Old Glory' on OTW?
 

[TackoGirl 130]

please little orbit do not add the -15% fire rate, this is so shitty and unnecessary, 
You'll destroy weapons again -> AR-97 Misery without rifling mod is this weapon broke and with rifling to slow.
and the ak with mods from the armas with rifling mod 3 shots faster than an ak with 3 slots where u add rifling 3 in. maybe that's just placebo idk.
why do not you just leave the weapons as they were except for the ones that were really not good.

Edited August 8, 2018 by TackoGirl

[Tobii 346]

6 minutes ago, TackoGirl said:

and the ak with mods from the armas with rifling mod 3 shots faster than an ak with 3 slots where u add rifling 3 in. maybe that's just placebo idk.

placebo.