11/25 Patch Announcement

[McL 10]

28 minutes ago, RatedX said:

1. Shotguns

The shotgun pellet hit requirement is always in the 80%s except for the extreme outlier of the JG at an alarming 66% with a 1.5m spread.

Comparability, 
Nfas sits at 83% with the same 1.5m spread while requiring 3 shots opposed to 2.
Regular showstopper at 88% with 1.25m spread, 3 shots vs 2 aswell.

If you check shotgun stats you can see the spreads vary wildly but the accuracy requirement remains in the 80%s
Like the CSG at 80% with a 0.85m spread.

 

Sir, you cannot compare an automatic shotgun with high firerate with the JG. The only valid option for a comparison is the CSG. And as you mentioned it has a spread of 0,85m which a little bit more than the half of JG's spread. So it is just natural that JG need less pellets to hit for a kill. 

 

Let's do a weird comparison with any non-shotgun weapon. They have a spread of 0m (just a single projectile) and need 100% hit (yes I know there is only 100% or 0%) to do damage. You see where it goes? If there would be a shotgun with a spread of 3m it would probably only need 30%(just a random number below 66) of pellets to hit to do kill. 

 

I'm not saying CSG should not be buffed, just saying it does not make any sense to compare percentages of pellets need to hit for a kill due to different spread.

 

Have a nice day

 

 

Edit: What I always wanted to know:

It is obvious that the JG is better than the CSG in hug range due to the higher damage and spread has barely impact at hug range. CSG becomes better with every meter more distance. 

Did someone calculate at which distance the break even point is? So at which distance both shotguns perform identical and every meter more distance the CSG outperforms JG more?

Thanks in advance if somebody knows

Edited November 25, 2020 by McL

[Todesklinge 143]

Percs are usless before the nerf, now they are total useless!

 

You need to nerf CONCUSSION Grenade too, it is the most used Anti-Vehicle Weapon/Grenade in the game and make every anti vehicle weapon useless!

 

NHVR -> 800 Dmg x2 = 1600 dmg = Kevlar 3 have no effect because NHVR do overdamage.

You need to rebalance this!

Kevlar becomes more and more penalitys with each update.

 

Clotting Agent is allready OVERPOWERED and the new weapon balance patch makes Clotting Agent more and more important to use. Or all other mods becomes more usless.

 

STOP THIS WRONG BALANCING!

[swft 356]

Seem like decent changes to me, I'd also nerf Obeya CR762 and revert the N-Tec nerfs a part from the jump accuracy nerf.

[Nagletz 219]

37 minutes ago, Todesklinge said:

Percs are usless before the nerf, now they are total useless!

 

You need to nerf CONCUSSION Grenade too, it is the most used Anti-Vehicle Weapon/Grenade in the game and make every anti vehicle weapon useless!

 

NHVR -> 800 Dmg x2 = 1600 dmg = Kevlar 3 have no effect because NHVR do overdamage.

You need to rebalance this!

Kevlar becomes more and more penalitys with each update.

 

Clotting Agent is allready OVERPOWERED and the new weapon balance patch makes Clotting Agent more and more important to use. Or all other mods becomes more usless.

 

STOP THIS WRONG BALANCING!

Crying is wrong too.

Don't touch nades anymore pls, all of them is perfectly balanced for now, I think.

Wanna be anti-vehicle grenadier? Use conc.

Wanna deal damage to many people? Use frag.

Wanna spam nades to make ur enemy move his fat as ? Use low-yields.

Wanna be annoy... mobile? Use perc.

Wanna play for fun? Use 8-ball

That is how I see the situation with nades now. Just IMO

[RatedX 16]

1 hour ago, McL said:

Sir, you cannot compare an automatic shotgun with high firerate with the JG. The only valid option for a comparison is the CSG. And as you mentioned it has a spread of 0,85m which a little bit more than the half of JG's spread. So it is just natural that JG need less pellets to hit for a kill. 

 

Let's do a weird comparison with any non-shotgun weapon. They have a spread of 0m (just a single projectile) and need 100% hit (yes I know there is only 100% or 0%) to do damage. You see where it goes? If there would be a shotgun with a spread of 3m it would probably only need 30%(just a random number below 66) of pellets to hit to do kill. 

 

I'm not saying CSG should not be buffed, just saying it does not make any sense to compare percentages of pellets need to hit for a kill due to different spread.

 

Have a nice day

 

 

Edit: What I always wanted to know:

It is obvious that the JG is better than the CSG in hug range due to the higher damage and spread has barely impact at hug range. CSG becomes better with every meter more distance. 

Did someone calculate at which distance the break even point is? So at which distance both shotguns perform identical and every meter more distance the CSG outperforms JG more?

Thanks in advance if somebody knows

Thats exactly where the problem lies, the JG has the 4 things that make a shotgun great, when at most, it should only have 2.

It has :
extremely high forgiveness for partial misses.
Extremely high damage 
comparably good range (17 meters with IR3) (base CSG has 15m, or 22m with IR3)
lower than average TTK  (0.67)

If the JG's spread gets increased it would still allow it to be a monster in its intended range (under 10 meters) while weakening its forgiveness and effective range.
I mean, with the recent SMG range nerfs, the JGs range is starting to make OCAs and PMGs obsolete. 

Heres a comparison between the JG and CSG : https://imgur.com/a/RdsaIVt 
I'd estimate the break even point is 15 meters if we go by 2 shot kill potential.

If we do some basic math we can estimate the JG's spread to be 2.25m at 15 meters, (1.5m at 10m , 15m being +50% distance, then 1.5m spread + 50% spread = 2.25m)  that still allows the JG to effectively 2 shot reliably.

[wHisHi 206]

I hope for good armas sale during christmas so I can buy these weapons 

[McL 10]

33 minutes ago, RatedX said:

Thats exactly where the problem lies, the JG has the 4 things that make a shotgun great, when at most, it should only have 2.

It has :
extremely high forgiveness for partial misses.
Extremely high damage 
comparably good range (17 meters with IR3) (base CSG has 15m, or 22m with IR3)
lower than average TTK  (0.67)

If the JG's spread gets increased it would still allow it to be a monster in its intended range (under 10 meters) while weakening its forgiveness and effective range.
I mean, with the recent SMG range nerfs, the JGs range is starting to make OCAs and PMGs obsolete. 

Heres a comparison between the JG and CSG : https://imgur.com/a/RdsaIVt 
I'd estimate the break even point is 15 meters if we go by 2 shot kill potential.

If we do some basic math we can estimate the JG's spread to be 2.25m at 15 meters, (1.5m at 10m , 15m being +50% distance, then 1.5m spread + 50% spread = 2.25m)  that still allows the JG to effectively 2 shot reliably.

I get your point and also partly agree but let me repeat mine.

I was just saying that you cannot compare the JG and CSG by the percentage of pellets need to hit for a kill.

If the JG would have a spread of 500m(exaggerated) at 10m range the weapon would be the worst weapon available. Still it would need 66% of the pellets to hit for a kill. 

Do you see what I mean? The percentages you mentioned in your earlier posts are not a valid indicator.

 

[Todesklinge 143]

2 hours ago, Nagletz said:

Crying is wrong too.

Don't touch nades anymore pls, all of them is perfectly balanced for now, I think.

Wanna be anti-vehicle grenadier? Use conc.

Wanna deal damage to many people? Use frag.

Wanna spam nades to make ur enemy move his fat as ? Use low-yields.

Wanna be annoy... mobile? Use perc.

Wanna play for fun? Use 8-ball

That is how I see the situation with nades now. Just IMO

 

Grenades are very unbalanced!

We have the EOL Grenade Launcher series, but the regular grenades are allready much better and dont need an primary weapon slot!

 

This is a very bad solution for balancing!

 

This is the reason why no one uses grenade launchers or explosive weapons, because grenades dont cost an expensive primary weapon slot and regular grenades have much better performing (abusing grenade timer).

[Preme 35]

Who even crouched with oca and pmg

[MACKxBOLAN 434]

To start off with, I see no actual change. The Tommy is just as bad on recoil, the oca sd still shows a range bar equal to an assault rifle. 

 The Tommy should have the same or almost the same range as the .45 pistol, beings the barrel is longer.

The Buff tweek to the RSA types I see a a good thing

The oca nerf grumbles me, but any gun with a silencer on it will loose muzzle velocity and effective range, because the round's fps has been lowered to sub-sonic speeds.

 

[TheMessiah 430]

If they tweaked the current matchmaking so many times like this weapons-could've been the perfect game.Just sayn..and guess what you cant "dislike" me

Edited November 25, 2020 by TheMessiah

[SkittyM 287]

2 hours ago, MACKxBOLAN said:

the oca sd still shows a range bar equal to an assault rifle.

Your first mistake since the stat bars on weapons are manually input values and not actually based on weapon stats directly.

[Nagletz 219]

5 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

 

Grenades are very unbalanced!

We have the EOL Grenade Launcher series, but the regular grenades are allready much better and dont need an primary weapon slot!

 

This is a very bad solution for balancing!

 

This is the reason why no one uses grenade launchers or explosive weapons, because grenades dont cost an expensive primary weapon slot and regular grenades have much better performing (abusing grenade timer).

Since you mentioned EOL series... maybe it's EOL weakness than grenades op-ness? 

Nobody prefer EOL over any other explosives (and ofc grenades themselves). Dang, nobody EVER prefer it... Windup messes these guns up, otherwise they could have it's niche. 

By the way, why they ever do need their unique mods? They doesn't really affect anything, each grenade launcher is a separate unique gun. Quite pointless decision. Same with the many other legendaries, most of the mods don't do anything but list the features of the gun, "based" on some other gun. If those mods would've deleted, there would be more variety of gameplay.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Nagletz

[Noob_Guardian 418]

On 11/25/2020 at 9:53 AM, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA said:

it was fantastically balanced, the only people who considered the scout garbage because of ca3 are people who cant aim

 

the scout has been less popular because there wasnt any real reason to use it over the unnerfed heavy hvr, but its always been one of the most versatile guns in apb

 

It really wasn't, and half the people i know wanted it buffed because it was so lackluster in comparison to most other choices. Not only that but you almost never saw a scout be a top frag without them maining pistol. For good reason.

 

Has nothing to do with being unable to aim, when in under 3 seconds it instantly became a 3 shot kill at 2.50? TTK and fucked you when other guns with faster ROF's would only increase their "ttk" to kill you by "maybe" 1 shot in the same 3 seconds with a much faster TTK. It needed the buff and people called for it for YEARS. You say "oh you didn't shoot again in 3 seconds must be bad" no, they just got to cover, or missed once, but every other gun in the game including base HVR (except for the pre-buff oblivion and fr0g) is more forgiving when it came to missed shots/enemies behind a little cover for 3 seconds. It's not absurd to ask for a minor damage buff to make the gun more reliable because it was either hit or cri because CA. (Ironically i'm pretty sure the whole reason CA3 was nerfed slightly was to compensate for the scout to begin with as well because it felt horrible at times)

 

It was actually heavily used until jump shooting got nerfed, at which point why use scout? It was mediocre at best due to CA3 and being unable to jump shoot over cover for easy kills put it to the backburner for most. That's plenty enough to prove that it wasn't "fantastically balanced"

 

Merged.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 12:10 PM, RatedX said:

1. Shotguns

The shotgun pellet hit requirement is always in the 80%s except for the extreme outlier of the JG at an alarming 66% with a 1.5m spread.

Comparability, 
Nfas sits at 83% with the same 1.5m spread while requiring 3 shots opposed to 2.
Regular showstopper at 88% with 1.25m spread, 3 shots vs 2 aswell.

If you check shotgun stats you can see the spreads vary wildly but the accuracy requirement remains in the 80%s
Like the CSG at 80% with a 0.85m spread.

Only possible way i can see to balance such discrepancy is to 
A) Positive Per Ray Damage Scale (First pellets deal less damage while damage increases per pellet until it reaches max damage with 100% accuracy) essentially forces a standardized accuracy requirement.

Or 

B) Shotgun spread is based around the accuracy percentages , AKA, the less accurate you have to be the more spread it has. (Again, changing JG from 1.5m -> 2.5 , was an exaggeration to show the possibilities)
 

The problem is that JG has the same spread as NFAS, slower TTK, and more damage. I can agree adjusting the % would be ideal. That could be done in several other ways, like maintaining same damage - increasing pellots - increasing spread, or reduce damage hp damage overall.

On 11/25/2020 at 12:10 PM, RatedX said:

2. Grenades 

Im not asking for a nerf to the frag per se, Im asking for the frag to be specialized in the Anti Player role it should be.

For instance, tweaking its hard damage from 500s -> 300

Still remains the Anti player grenade it is, but lets the Anti Vehicle Concussions shine out more in the current meta.
As it stands, with frags being extremely good at anti player, and able to 2 shot/disable all vehicles in the game. PLUS the ability to carry satchel charges, it made the frag the go-to grenade for every occasion.

That's a downright nerf to the frag. Why should 2 frags not destroy or severely damage a vehicle? A conc can kill half the vehicles and disable most others in 1 grenade. Frags take 2, that's the middle ground. You shouldn't have to throw 4-5 frags just to blow up a car. Just saying. A frag takes both grenades, and 4-6 seconds, to do what 4 seconds and a single conc can. If you hate satchel charges, hate them, but we wouldn't need satchels if Car spawners weren't broken to begin with.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 12:10 PM, RatedX said:

3. Volcano

The volcano in its intended design did 1227 Vehicle damage until the questionable tweak it received  
Source : 

Keep in mind the volcano has a damage ramp up mechanic unlike the osmaw:
While the osmaw does its full damage from 0-144m
The volcano can only do that at 84-100m.

Again, the volcanos intended design was for anti vehicle capabilities hence why the need for a nerf to Anti Player and a Re-tweak to its hard damage.
Vehicle damage at 1100 would prevent 1 shoting the high tier vehicles while allowing it to be effective Anti Vehicle.

 

The whole reason they nerfed it, was to prevent it from 1 shotting when there's 2 shots in a mag. Which honestly makes sense. That change with the Volcano ALSO came with the nerf to the most used vehicles in the game. It still destroys vehicles fine, and if the "range" is the problem at 80m, advocate that the range be reduced to 40-60m instead of 80 before calling for an HP buff damage buff which would have a similar effect but put it back to 1 shot sniper at 80m+

[Darkzero3802 613]

It would be nice if enough ppl were playing to actually test this out

[FakeBungo 248]

all useless changes and shows the developers dont play the game, the issue with hvr isnt quickswitching its the fact it puts you out of combat for 20 seconds just for showing 1 pixel of your hitbox

 

Merged.

 

Quote

 

OCA / OCA-SD

 

The OCA and OCA-SD variants (Whisper not included) have received the following changes:

 

The OCA and OCA-SD variants have had their crouch modifier adjusted, going from 0.8 to 0.95. This means that they will no longer gain as much accuracy when crouched.

The effective range has been adjusted. The dropoff now starts at 17.5 meters rather than 30.

The dropoff range has also been adjusted, now dealing its minimum damage after 7.5 meters rather than 20 meters. This means these weapons will now deal their minimum damage of 37 damage per shot at 25 meters rather than 50 meters.

 

Standing in contrast to the PMG, OCA variants are now slightly less accurate when crouching. Combined with their damage drop-off being shortened, so that it now starts dropping off at 17.5 meters, this makes them more appropriate for mobile gunfights.

 

This is obviously a PAY 2 WIN change and confirms any suspicions that APB 2 will be worse than the original game.
Also it doesn't even make any sense, what on earth is effective range in contrast to dropoff range? Who knows, also it doesn't matter what matters is that this is a pay2win change which makes the whisper better in everyway by a massive margin.

[Nagletz 219]

1 hour ago, FakeBungo said:

This is obviously a PAY 2 WIN change and confirms any suspicions that APB 2 will be worse than the original game.
Also it doesn't even make any sense, what on earth is effective range in contrast to dropoff range? Who knows, also it doesn't matter what matters is that this is a pay2win change which makes the whisper better in everyway by a massive margin.

Seems illogical, yes, but does it matter? APB never been p2w just because half of Armas guns was bad, and still bad.

[McL 10]

I like that now you have to choose between CJ3 and IR3 on SMG's. Did someone already try it out?

[wHisHi 206]

32 minutes ago, McL said:

I like that now you have to choose between CJ3 and IR3 on SMG's. Did someone already try it out?

IR3 with smg?? why??

[Nagletz 219]

2 hours ago, wHisHi said:

IR3 with smg?? why??

To buff the smg back

Edited November 26, 2020 by Nagletz

[vsb 6174]

14 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

It really wasn't, and half the people i know wanted it buffed because it was so lackluster in comparison to most other choices. Not only that but you almost never saw a scout be a top frag without them maining pistol. For good reason.

 

Has nothing to do with being unable to aim, when in under 3 seconds it instantly became a 3 shot kill at 2.50? TTK and fucked you when other guns with faster ROF's would only increase their "ttk" to kill you by "maybe" 1 shot in the same 3 seconds with a much faster TTK. It needed the buff and people called for it for YEARS. You say "oh you didn't shoot again in 3 seconds must be bad" no, they just got to cover, or missed once, but every other gun in the game including base HVR (except for the pre-buff oblivion and fr0g) is more forgiving when it came to missed shots/enemies behind a little cover for 3 seconds. It's not absurd to ask for a minor damage buff to make the gun more reliable because it was either hit or cri because CA. (Ironically i'm pretty sure the whole reason CA3 was nerfed slightly was to compensate for the scout to begin with as well because it felt horrible at times)

 

It was actually heavily used until jump shooting got nerfed, at which point why use scout? It was mediocre at best due to CA3 and being unable to jump shoot over cover for easy kills put it to the backburner for most. That's plenty enough to prove that it wasn't "fantastically balanced"

 

 

half the people i know want the ntec nerfs reverted, should we balance based on that?

 

seen plenty of people top frag scout without "maining pistol", as if a weapon having good synergy with your secondary is a sign of poor balance anyway

 

people jumping off the easy meta bandwagon after the scout was balanced doesnt really prove anything - people did the same thing with the troublemaker, and even the heavy hvr after its initial nerf

 

scout didnt need a buff at all imo, a sniper designed around being aggressively versatile and landing precise shots should have drawbacks for not doing so

 

and while the effect is fairly small (only an extra second to land the second shot vs ca3) its part of a worrying trend of orbit mucking about with weapons that are just fine 

[nattsvart_katt 34]

can you stop wasting everybody's time by working on your so called "weapons balance".

 

the weapons were fine 10 years ago, the problem with this game has NEVER EVER been weapons balance.

 

for those of you who complain about this or that weapon being too powerful, do some practice.

 

[Snubnose 640]

3 hours ago, nattsvart_katt said:

can you stop wasting everybody's time by working on your so called "weapons balance".

 

the weapons were fine 10 years ago, the problem with this game has NEVER EVER been weapons balance.

 

for those of you who complain about this or that weapon being too powerful, do some practice.

 

and here's the winner of "worst take ever".

congratulations :^)

[yJung 10]

The changes are alright. 

 

But one question, do SPCT play fightclub, or like.. at all? How couldn't you nerf JG/CSG? It's literally cancer in fightclub, it's basically a OP gun for every monkey without aim. Like many others who play only fightclub IF they play APB cuz missions either suck or it's too laggy/bad fps, I cba to play and be completely overpowered by a JG even if this monkey misses a lot of shots. Not only are corners fucking ridiculous where you can't hit someone properly, but this gun overpowers every other gun in a CQC fight (which is nearly everywhere in Asylum with corners). JG (CSG too but less than JG) is the complete epitome of having a skillless gun. Even the OP PMG wasn't so fucking dominant in a CQC fight like this cancer JG is rn. Now I need to wait months again, till you decide to hopefully nerf this already. And please, don't nerf it "indirectly" like last time, where OCA would be a "counter" to JG, it's stupid.

[Talla 84]

The changes in this patch are pretty good.
 

2 hours ago, yJung said:

But one question, do SPCT play fightclub, or like.. at all? How couldn't you nerf JG/CSG? It's literally cancer in fightclub, it's basically a OP gun for every monkey without aim. [...]

If you play a map of corners like Asylum, shotguns will be OP because they are "in their environment".
The level design is more to blame than the weapon here.

Shotguns are intended to be played alternating in-and-out of cover, to maximize their high instant damage / exposure time ratio.
SMGs are intended to be played as a single, direct CQC rush.

Now, combine third-person camera, a map of corners & shotguns, and you've got yourself a nice recipe for widespread corner-camping.
"Lame but effective" corner-camping has been the cornerstone of the meta in this game for a long time now, no matter the weapon or the map.
 

You can bluff a primed grenade on every corner you meet to mitigate that, but I'd suggest you get a shotgun too.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Talla