Anti-Cheat Discussion

[JunoSuzuki 99]

6 minutes ago, xiphos said:

i'm 99% sure no one is getting banned ingame for hackusating unless they're also legitimately harassing their unfortunate targets

Probably also adding a lot of insults and harassment to the hackusations and then wonder why they also got punished.

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, JunoSuzuki said:

Probably also adding a lot of insults and harassment to the hackusations and then wonder why they also got punished.

and i bet they harass the people they hackusate too

[MiffyJupiter 8]

@MattScott Fix your fucking game. Cheaters lurking literally around every corner and they aren't even trying to hide it, they are so obviously cheating. If your anti-cheat doesn't do crap then I suggest just cancel the fucking contract/license as you're paying for literally nothing.  This is the last time I've spent a fucking dime on this game. FIX IT or just slowly see it wither and ultimately die. You bought this game and we had great hopes as a community but we've literally seen no improvement in this game's gameplay mechanics. I don't care that my language is foul but I am utterly and completely done with this nonsense. 

 

Just look at in-game characters: Removed Public accusations ~@mayii all examples of high ranking players using cheats. There are clans out there that are literally full of players sharing their cheats, just look at the clans of the characters I mentioned. This is nothing compared to the majority of the "High Ranking" players using third party tools to give them advantages in this game. 

 

I hope this is worth something to you, if not; I don't care. This game is dead to me. But it's ultimately your investment that's at risk here. No one buys something that isn't worth saving, so I hope you've got something up your sleeve.

 

 

[Thiagao145 18]

1 hour ago, MiffyJupiter said:

@MattScott Fix your fucking game. Cheaters lurking literally around every corner and they aren't even trying to hide it, they are so obviously cheating. If your anti-cheat doesn't do crap then I suggest just cancel the fucking contract/license as you're paying for literally nothing.  This is the last time I've spent a fucking dime on this game. FIX IT or just slowly see it wither and ultimately die. You bought this game and we had great hopes as a community but we've literally seen no improvement in this game's gameplay mechanics. I don't care that my language is foul but I am utterly and completely done with this nonsense. 

 

Just look at in-game characters: Removed Public accusations ~@mayii all examples of high ranking players using cheats. There are clans out there that are literally full of players sharing their cheats, just look at the clans of the characters I mentioned. This is nothing compared to the majority of the "High Ranking" players using third party tools to give them advantages in this game. 

 

I hope this is worth something to you, if not; I don't care. This game is dead to me. But it's ultimately your investment that's at risk here. No one buys something that isn't worth saving, so I hope you've got something up your sleeve.

 

 

Jesus dude, chill. 
Havent seen a cheater in a while, if you are salty about the game just give it a day or two and come back.

[MiffyJupiter 8]

It's digusting that I get a penalty for so called "name shaming". Cheaters that are so obvious just get covered by the mods here. I bet if they ban the cheaters their player base gets halved.

2 hours ago, Thiagao145 said:

Jesus dude, chill. 
Havent seen a cheater in a while, if you are salty about the game just give it a day or two and come back.

I bet you're only playing in Bronze servers then.

 

[Thiagao145 18]

29 minutes ago, MiffyJupiter said:

It's digusting that I get a penalty for so called "name shaming". Cheaters that are so obvious just get covered by the mods here. I bet if they ban the cheaters their player base gets halved.

I bet you're only playing in Bronze servers then.

 

Chill dude. If you are bad, just git gud. Your hackcusations will drop right away when you git gud xD

[MiffyJupiter 8]

1 hour ago, Thiagao145 said:

Chill dude. If you are bad, just git gud. Your hackcusations will drop right away when you git gud xD

I am a good player. There are just other constantly ruining other players' experience. You defend this so bad, you can't clearly see how bad the cheating problem in this game is.

[CookiePuss 5379]

43 minutes ago, MiffyJupiter said:

I am a good player. There are just other constantly ruining other players' experience. You defend this so bad, you can't clearly see how bad the cheating problem in this game is.

Maybe he just plays Jericho.

[MaxJedburgh 18]

NA all the way, Cookie!

 

As we are all aware, I'm a mediocre player at best (Bronze average for 5 years legit).

 

The only genuine hackusation I ever copped was due to my trusty Commander being used in a 2on1 vs a pair of Green crims. They hadn't encountered one before and I must confess they STILL gave me a run for my money and it got down to the final stage. Could have gone either way.

 

The rest have just been gas escaping: nothing to them. I'm simply not bothered by it, have no need to dethreat, and haven't got the skills or inclination to play worse than I am able to.

It's play hard or go home, where I'm from. And quite frankly I don't want to drop to Green, that would be embarrassing. So why would I? XD

 

What makes me sad is the tiny fragile egos of people who feel the need to cheat in the first place, I mean come on... we're talking about a game with a Mature Rating, so some level of Maturity would be nice...hmmm; I appear to be Ranting.

 

Anyhoo, I had slightly better experiences in game under EAC than I've had with BattlEye in regards to latency and fps in Australia on Jericho.

Then again I had MUCH better experiences in-game when I was playing Han Singapore, due to proximity I suspect. Japan, not as good.

 

My problem now is finding a match, cause I prefer WC NA Bronze districts...it my patootie in my hands if I have to play Silver or Gold maps to have the numbers.

 

[GoodDay 0]

Remove the color change of the sight and the problem will be solved by 50-60%. I imagine the crying and whimpering of the so-called "fathers" after the inability to use the trigger bot.

[BlatMan 711]

How about giving GMs the ability to remove players when they're running faster than a vegas in front of them.

 

[Shui 225]

On 4/10/2021 at 1:26 PM, MiffyJupiter said:

@MattScott Fix your fucking game. Cheaters lurking literally around every corner and they aren't even trying to hide it, they are so obviously cheating. If your anti-cheat doesn't do crap then I suggest just cancel the fucking contract/license as you're paying for literally nothing.  This is the last time I've spent a fucking dime on this game. FIX IT or just slowly see it wither and ultimately die. You bought this game and we had great hopes as a community but we've literally seen no improvement in this game's gameplay mechanics. I don't care that my language is foul but I am utterly and completely done with this nonsense. 

 

Just look at in-game characters: Removed Public accusations ~@mayii all examples of high ranking players using cheats. There are clans out there that are literally full of players sharing their cheats, just look at the clans of the characters I mentioned. This is nothing compared to the majority of the "High Ranking" players using third party tools to give them advantages in this game. 

 

I hope this is worth something to you, if not; I don't care. This game is dead to me. But it's ultimately your investment that's at risk here. No one buys something that isn't worth saving, so I hope you've got something up your sleeve.

 

 

gitgud scrub
maybe try minecraft sword fights

[JDMxDrifter 5]

God, the amount of salty silver tears in this thread are giving me severe dehydration. Y’all have to remember, this is a free to play game. Stop wasting so much of your breath crying, and go play fortnite or something. That’s where a lot of you belong seeing as how you react to players who are just better.

 

git gud scrub or leave 

[Nev 200]

4 hours ago, Euxoa said:

God, the amount of salty silver tears in this thread are giving me severe dehydration. Y’all have to remember, this is a free to play game. Stop wasting so much of your breath crying, and go play fortnite or something. That’s where a lot of you belong seeing as how you react to players who are just better.

 

git gud scrub or leave 

Why would you post this on a new account if that's how you really feel? Are you really afraid of people on the internet? Unbelievable. On the topic of cheaters there is quiet a few from Russia not gonna bother giving names since there is so much video evidence out there, and multiple ban histories with the new anti cheat but doesn't seem like Little Orbit care about banning the blatant cheaters in a timely manner when they are actively stream sniping cheating their asses off.  It's all good and well working on the engine update but there won't be an active enough population if you don't deal with the cheater issues @MattScott.

 

PS: Gotta love the former cheaters preaching on stream about the population when they are part of the problem that caused the population to dip to this point. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Nev

[ketsknots 0]

I still believe it's ranks and visual perks that come with them that makes quite a few people do anything to get up there with the best, plus it also makes others feel looked-down upon for playing casual with a lower rank / visual perk.  I liked how old fps games did it; unreal, quake and many more in the old days just had a kill-counter for the round / mission and that was it. Did people still cheat? Sure. Did people care? Hardly. The next battle /  instance / server would be fine again and it didn't impact anyone really, except from that previous round. 

 

Gameplay like that doesn't tempt people to get that nicer visual perk, every dog can have a amazing kill-count round and nothing changes. If you talk about cheaters back then, those people really wanted to cheat to annoy people for a couple rounds, not to earn a nice visual token reserved for the best of players. Like that, for most cheaters, the cheating became more boring over time instead of giving back some feeling of being special. It also made cheats not to be really valuable, or even sell well. Most people didn't get the point of cheating in those extremely popular and crowed fps games. 

 

The more games tend to reward better players with visual perks the more the average / legit players start crying / cheating. Now they try to fix that with skill-based matchmaking and anti-cheat that acts more like spyware than protection. I often asked the question if some mayor developers struck gold after starting to sell cheats for games that give you a visual perks for "being better". The same goes for levels and progress and giving "better" players a faster progress. All of this is sold to us as making a game more "competetive"  while in fact sitting alone in a room on a Windows-crap computer these new games being more "competitive" than the old ones couldn't be much further from the truth because of cheating. 

 

Thanks for reading my blogpost rant. And enjoy the games you like 

[Proga 8]

Is there a plan to fight the trigger bot? Because they are the dominant majority and this is very upsetting...
You can just make a white crosshair without changes on the enemy and this will not greatly affect the game, leave only the red cross on hit and that's it, the problem is solved)


 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Proga

[Hexerin 1140]

11 hours ago, Proga said:

You can just make a white crosshair without changes on the enemy and this will not greatly affect the game, leave only the red cross on hit and that's it, the problem is solved)

You'd think LO would have done this very, very simple change by now. I guess it's asking too much of their professionally paid staff to do something that an unpaid intern could do in less than 5 minutes.

[Nagletz 215]

17 hours ago, Proga said:

Is there a plan to fight the trigger bot? Because they are the dominant majority and this is very upsetting...
You can just make a white crosshair without changes on the enemy and this will not greatly affect the game, leave only the red cross on hit and that's it, the problem is solved)


 

As far as I know, not all triggerbots can be based on turning-red crosshair. As someone here mentioned, it can be based on notoriety display which appears instantly, in the bottom of the screen, but I could be wrong.

Cheaters always find a way to cheat, it's part of any online game. However we can make it more difficult to them. 

[vsb 6171]

the issue with changing crosshair colors to combat colorbots is that you're punishing the legit playerbase for cheaters, and (as pointed out above) there's always workarounds that the cheaters will flock to instead

[Frosi 722]

2 hours ago, xiphos said:

the issue with changing crosshair colors to combat colorbots is that you're punishing the legit playerbase for cheaters, and (as pointed out above) there's always workarounds that the cheaters will flock to instead

Pretty much this, people assume crosshair color based triggerbots are the only way to do it which just isn't correct at all. This change will do absolutely nothing except for removing a part of APB's game design which will only punish your actual legit players because the cheaters will go to the next best thing and on top of all this you are designing your game around cheaters when there is other solutions that punish cheaters themselves, not your actual players.

 

At the end of the day, if we had an actual Anti-cheat we wouldn't be having this discussion and while BE is doing its job at keeping away the Shaw-copters for the most part, subtle things like Triggerbots, macros, low fov aimbots, silent aim etc aren't being caught and it's only going to become a bigger issue the longer it stays like this. So instead of designing the game around combating cheats and mitigating exploitable game mechanics that could be used for cheats, the answer is a proper Anti-cheat that can catch these subtle ways of cheating, not changing the game itself.

[Sayori 311]

3 hours ago, Frosi said:

Pretty much this, people assume crosshair color based triggerbots are the only way to do it which just isn't correct at all. This change will do absolutely nothing except for removing a part of APB's game design which will only punish your actual legit players because the cheaters will go to the next best thing and on top of all this you are designing your game around cheaters when there is other solutions that punish cheaters themselves, not your actual players.

 

At the end of the day, if we had an actual Anti-cheat we wouldn't be having this discussion and while BE is doing its job at keeping away the Shaw-copters for the most part, subtle things like Triggerbots, macros, low fov aimbots, silent aim etc aren't being caught and it's only going to become a bigger issue the longer it stays like this. So instead of designing the game around combating cheats and mitigating exploitable game mechanics that could be used for cheats, the answer is a proper Anti-cheat that can catch these subtle ways of cheating, not changing the game itself.

They are all "color based" in APB, just different approaches how to do it. You can read memory using Windows API which is unsafe or do it in  kernel mode. But most common, easy and apparently safe way is something like AutoIt which  is no-brainer and it's the most widely spread here. Changing the crosshair system would definitely help, most of those people will not move to something else or if they do, they will get banned. (or at least better chance to get caught than autoit)

I don't see how this would punish legit players. If you are color blind just use some crosshair program until LO adds custom crosshair colors.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Sayori

[Hexerin 1140]

5 hours ago, xiphos said:

punishing the legit playerbase

3 hours ago, Frosi said:

punish your actual legit players

Oh no, they won't be able to precisely track people through completely opaque smoke clouds and at 90m+ where the other player literally isn't even rendered. The absolute horror of long known extreme niche gameplay tricks (that are also objectively bad design) being removed, whatever shall we do? Get over yourselves, that argument is a fucking joke and always has been.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Hexerin

[vsb 6171]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Oh no, they won't be able to precisely track people through completely opaque smoke clouds and at 90m+ where the other player literally isn't even rendered. The absolute horror of long known extreme niche gameplay tricks (that are also objectively bad design) being removed, whatever shall we do? Get over yourselves, that argument is a fucking joke and always has been.

i didnt realize every corner with an angle that hides the player character qualified as "extreme niche", how about shooting under and around vehicle hitboxes? how about the entire near meta gun that functions best at 90m+? how about guns where the crosshair literally blocks out the player character at a certain distance?

 

"extreme niche" as if these things aren't  encountered multiple times every play session, talk about a fucking joke lmao

 

maybe get over yourself first my dude, but thanks for putting up even more reasons a static crosshair is dumb

 

unless youre also suggesting a massive overhaul to the hitboxes in apb (and then the customization options that affect them as well) at the same time, static crosshairs are a stupid pipedream 

[Hexerin 1140]

12 hours ago, xiphos said:

i didnt realize every corner with an angle that hides the player character qualified as "extreme niche"

I'm assuming you're referencing tracking the invisible edges of the player hitbox when a player is taking cover. This shouldn't be something a player can do. If you want to take shots at someone who's behind cover, you should have to risk the waste of ammo when your shots miss. If you get hits, then they're earned due to the other player's misplay.

12 hours ago, xiphos said:

how about shooting under and around vehicle hitboxes?

Shooting under cars is something that should require skill and good aim. As for shooting over or around their sides, that's a small sacrifice for bettering the rest of the game's combat (and can be fixed later with a pass to the long known issue of vehicle hitboxes being complete garbage across the board).

12 hours ago, xiphos said:

how about the entire near meta gun that functions best at 90m+?

You mean the DMR, which was given a weapon gimmick by RG/G1? Weapon gimmicks, which should be universally removed from all guns because they also universally did nothing of value while simultaneously degrading the consistency of the game's formerly incredible gunplay? Yea, good riddance.

12 hours ago, xiphos said:

how about guns where the crosshair literally blocks out the player character at a certain distance?

Fix the broken crosshair design, which literally only affects the Anubis. Don't even try to make this seem like some widespread issue, that's pathetic of you.

 

 

Begs the question why you're so intensely defending a game function that only benefits cheaters and hypersweats, while degrading the game for the 99%...

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

I'm assuming you're referencing tracking the invisible edges of the player hitbox when a player is taking cover. This shouldn't be something a player can do. If you want to take shots at someone who's behind cover, you should have to risk the waste of ammo when your shots miss. If you get hits, then they're earned due to the other player's misplay.

 

Shooting under cars is something that should require skill and good aim. As for shooting over or around their sides, that's a small sacrifice for bettering the rest of the game's combat (and can be fixed later with a pass to the long known issue of vehicle hitboxes being complete garbage across the board).

 

You mean the DMR, which was given a weapon gimmick by RG/G1? Weapon gimmicks, which should be universally removed from all guns because they also universally did nothing of value while simultaneously degrading the consistency of the game's formerly incredible gunplay? Yea, good riddance.

 

Fix the broken crosshair design, which literally only affects the Anubis. Don't even try to make this seem like some widespread issue, that's pathetic of you.

 

[gif]

 

Begs the question why you're so intensely defending a game function that only benefits cheaters and hypersweats, while degrading the game for the 99%...

seems like poor game design (didn't you just complain about that?) to allow for a hitbox to be shot with no indication its there, that's the kind of thing that gives players who know a very large advantage over those who don't

alternatively player hitboxes could be redone from scratch so that its not possible to damage a player unless the actual character model is visible, and then of course it needs to be decided if character models have to be redone to be visible over all crouch height cover or all crouch height cover has to be redone to show all character models

 

shooting under vehicles already requires skill and good aim with the current crosshair, ironically removing the visual indicator of a red crosshair would often turn it into complete rng

 

shooting around vehicle cover is not a "small sacrifice" its something that everyone encounters at least once per mission, because carplay is just as prevalent as ever

 

i'm curious what your suggestion for balancing the dmr without its reverse dropoff, since its poor game design to just leave severely underpowered guns laying around

 

any weapon with perfect accuracy will cause the crosshair to obscure players corner peaking at long ranges and certain other angles, its not just limited to the anubis

 

calling everyone who disagrees a cheater or a tryhard lmao, that's a surefire way to make all your points look stupid

im so "intensely" defending this mechanic because it seems pretty obvious that the people suggesting it haven't even remotely thought it through, even you yourself have gone from "simple fix" to completely overhauling hitboxes, rebalancing weapons, and swapping the crosshair design - obviously all things an unpaid intern should do right?

 

i haven't even brought up the shitstorm that is hitreg, because i don't generally like to balance around outside factors like server performance, but i'm certainly not looking forward to the massive increase in complaints because players don't even have a red crosshair to judge when a shot should have landed

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by xiphos
typo