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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Sayori said:

well, asylum has lots of corners, it's all about shotguns and smgs. And right now JG is god tier and hard carry weapon. Thanks LO, I guess ?

 

It's just a situational weapon... as u told the fact of corners/covers give a vantage cause u can use it better than any smg... of course a pmg his forte win a lot more in versatilty side(close range) and it's not poor thing, ntec docet.

God tier no.. it's just balanced,  too bad other shotguns (such as dow ) and smg (such as norse, troublemaker, aces) are trash.

 

Smg is probabily with sniper weapons, the weapon category with higher numbers of TRASH WEAPONS or bad optimized...

Edited by PingOVER9000

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12 hours ago, WEISSDEATH said:

It doesn't need to be nerfed, other weapons need to be buffed. Only reason you think its OP is because its the most used SMG right now because literally every other SMG is worst in comparison and offer no advantages over the PMG. It's like an animal when you take away its predators'; it flourishes because theres nothing that can compete against it save for the Manic and the Shotguns. 

 

This is what happens when you just nerf shit and not buff anything; honestly, nerfing should only be used for the most broken of things, like the Yukon's rate of fire was. Lets buff the norsemen and the curse instead of just nerfing more weapons.

This is exactly the way I see it, there is just too little competition for the PMG now that the OCA has been left without any (significant) advantages over it. Some prefer the OCA's firerate since it helps mitigate the effects of RNG and prevent "bad streaks", but looking at the cold hard numbers the PMG will simply hit more on average due to its better base accuracy. Also, for some reason the PMG can have a crouch bonus and equip Cooling Jacket at the same time, which the OCA cannot as crouching only improves accuracy on the Whisper.

 

If the OCA was actually changed according to these values instead of receiving an unexplained (and aside from APB DB, undocumented) last minute nerf, it would have helped both F2P options stay competitive. This would not benefit the likes of the Norseman and Tommygun but it is certainly better than to have the category dominated by PMGs and Manics.  Surely it's a tiny difference, but I do remember the OCA feeling best balance wise after RP's initial 0.68s buff. The 0.64s buff afterwards, on the other hand, was complete overkill and is what caused LO to nerf it again bringing it back to square one.

 

All things considered though, the OCA is still above average as far as SMGs go, it's just stuck in a strange no man's land compared to the PMG/Manic, and the likes of the Norseman/Curse/Tommygun.

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I wonder what section of the nerf board the dart will land on next week.

 

Can I throw it next time?

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2 hours ago, Sayori said:

Don't call me dear. I'm not your boyfriend, neither I'm interested. But if you are desperate to have your orifices filled just go buy one "toy" from Bad Dragon.

Isn't it funny how you don't want insults but at the same time  you literally wish me death?! Go see a doctor, something is terribly wrong with your head. But hey, that's APB community in a nutshell. This game will never take off, Engine Update is no tgoing to save APB because it's still going to be populated with people like you.

 

This thread is not about how I would fix pmg. Lots of things can be changed, bloom, recoil, accuracy loss for different modifiers. Range is "ok", maybe ttk can be increased.

 

 

  

 

well, asylum has lots of corners, it's all about shotguns and smgs. And right now JG is god tier and hard carry weapon. Thanks LO, I guess ?

He didn't even insult you.

Again, PMG doesn't need to be nerfed, other weapons need to be buff so they it has things to rival it. This whole PMG OP thing became an issue in the first place because another weapon was nerfed; The OCA and the NFAS. 

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Posted (edited)

  

3 hours ago, 404 said:

but he didnt?

Check your eyes, my dude. And even if I insult him, should  that warrant a death wish ? But it's APB, this is completely normal.

 

 

48 minutes ago, WEISSDEATH said:

He didn't even insult you.

Again, PMG doesn't need to be nerfed, other weapons need to be buff so they it has things to rival it. This whole PMG OP thing became an issue in the first place because another weapon was nerfed; The OCA and the NFAS. 

OCA had to be nerfed, it was the dominant smg and now is in a good place. But now PMG has a longer range, same ttk and basically no real penalties unlike OCA. So need to buff it again thank you very much(oca main btw).

Edited by Sayori

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its all about PMG and OCA ... PMG wins from OCA easily stil i prefer playing oca as i enjoy the gameplay more than playing a pmg. Would be fun if PMG and OCA would be on same niveau  i wouldn't nerf the pmg at all. i feel that a lot of nerfs we got were unnecesairy. its all about how u enjoy your gameplay and not about competitive managment taking. but its true PMG is used quiet a lot.

2 minutes ago, Sayori said:

  

Check your eyes, my dude. And even if I insult him, should  that warrant a death wish ? But it's APB, this is completely normal.

 

 

OCA had to be nerfed, it was the dominant smg and now is in a good place. But now PMG has a longer range, same ttk and basically no real penalties unlike OCA. So need to buff it again thank you very much(oca main btw).

i enjoy oca too but i don't know what they would need to change ... the range of pmg is insane in my opinion but the oca has sometimes a chance to do the same.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sayori said:

Check your eyes, my dude. And even if I insult him, should  that warrant a death wish ? But it's APB, this is completely normal.

“crash and burn” isn’t a death wish, it’s a pretty common expression about failure

 

idk if english isn’t your first language or if you’re choosing to interpret it as literally as possible but it’s a bit silly

 

 

Edited by 404
typo
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Mitne said:

Begin of 2019: Nerf PMG

Late 2019: Nerf OCA

Begin of 2020: Nerf PMG

Late 2020: ?

 

No. OCA users are already dead and got replaced by ACES users. Pretty sure this is gonna be next nerf moan if it will realize.

 

There needs to be massive pool done by LO over what to do with all weapons and they all need to be redone statwise.

Harbinger, All Norsemans except Hoenir, SBSR Coroner and SBSR IRS ( literally why even fucking have these in the game theyre so bad compared to everything else LOL )

The ShowStopper has effectively had its show fucking canceled after they nerfed it around the Thunder instead of just addressing the Thunder alone, the fact I can two shot you point fucking blank and not kill you is so stupid lmao. The fact I can splash you with a grenade and 3 shot you at roughly 5meters and you still arent dead is mind boggling lol

Tin Soldier is never seen in combat unless youre the rare person that isnt focused on sweating on the keyboard for EZ wins :^)


For the love of all that is holy, revert the stupid patootie damage over accuracy change to HVR cause it does fucking nothing to combat quickswitching, and actually address the issue of quickswitching lmao. Literally just make the equip time the same as the unequip time, like why does it take 4 seconds to switch from sniper to secondary vs the .9 second swap from secondary to sniper lmao.  

Quote

W3lL SinCE iTs AcCuRACy noW you H4Ve T0 AiM ThATs HoW ThEy FiXEd QuiCKSwitCHinG

  no shut the fuck up and quit kidding yourselves, its done fuck all to combat quickswitching



 

11 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

I guess this will be the next discussion of @a Pair of Socks .....

Aces to me is fine, Ive never had an issue with it other than the fact they chose to use a shitty round extended barrel instead of "Vector CRB Square Shroud / 16"

Edited by Guest
How about instead of hiding behind a dislike button you just say your opinion for once? Maybe thats why nothing ever gets done, youre too afraid to speak your mind. I dont give a rats patootie if you dont agree with me or not, an opinion is just that. :

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2 hours ago, a Pair of Socks said:

Harbinger, All Norsemans except Hoenir, SBSR Coroner and SBSR IRS ( literally why even fucking have these in the game theyre so bad compared to everything else LOL )

The ShowStopper has effectively had its show fucking canceled after they nerfed it around the Thunder instead of just addressing the Thunder alone, the fact I can two shot you point fucking blank and not kill you is so stupid lmao. The fact I can splash you with a grenade and 3 shot you at roughly 5meters and you still arent dead is mind boggling lol

Tin Soldier is never seen in combat unless youre the rare person that isnt focused on sweating on the keyboard for EZ wins :^)


For the love of all that is holy, revert the stupid patootie damage over accuracy change to HVR cause it does fucking nothing to combat quickswitching, and actually address the issue of quickswitching lmao. Literally just make the equip time the same as the unequip time, like why does it take 4 seconds to switch from sniper to secondary vs the .9 second swap from secondary to sniper lmao.  

  no shut the fuck up and quit kidding yourselves, its done fuck all to combat quickswitching



 

Aces to me is fine, Ive never had an issue with it other than the fact they chose to use a shitty round extended barrel instead of "Vector CRB Square Shroud / 16"

That’s why buff those mentioned weapons lmao.

 

so they can be decent enough. 

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Don't touch my god damn pmg 😠

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, a Pair of Socks said:

How about instead of hiding behind a dislike button you just say your opinion for once? Maybe thats why nothing ever gets done, youre too afraid to speak your mind. I dont give a rats patootie if you dont agree with me or not, an opinion is just that. :

?

Maybe I told my opinion in a joking mode and u interpreted it as an insult, my apoligize it wasnt my intention, what I tried to tell (as others), answering just with nerfs on nerfs after another nerf every time, it's not the answer for resolving the balancing matter and that's confirmed (also from you words ironically ) from the actual situation cause now,  around the 90% weapon available in armas/games arent META or competitive with the usually (neither exactly..)10 ones.

 

In my opinion PMG isnt Over powered, cause

 

-first, drop off is after 30/35m but his effective range is max around  20m, so his use/versatily is limited from this fact.

-after 15m a lot weapons in medium range/ quick switch secondary such as star, ntec, far, may compete and beat it... I killed a lot good player in 10m+ using a ap45 or fbw, and I am just decent with them.

-very close range match up comparison against other weapon specialist ex : JG/ good latency CSG especially in defence match ups>>>>> PMG,  normal match up decent JG user>> decent PMG

 

-the PMG's bullets spray relatively in a big crosshair, RNG involved a little lot more than other close range weapons and it,  his  precion, it's directly unproportional to the distance between you and the opponent... so translated.....PMG kills in teorically 5 shots, pratically in game u will spend from 7/8 to above

-For last, add to the pile the slow fire rate.

 

I write again if it wasnt clear, I respect your opinion and I understand your (right) anger for the bad balancing, but nerf it's not the answer, in my opinion need a point view that include ALL AND EVERYTHING for better compresion of the thing and arrive to a solution.

 

Then about, You talk of nerf, Then ok, but Then, what do u want exactly nerf? what do you mean for nerf?,

what do want or would to change for obtain at the end a weapon will not be or will be to send in the other trash pile?

 

I have maybe around 30+ permanent weapons (as a lot player here) got during these several years in apb, especially these last ones with LO, I am disappointed a lot of them "are just getting the dust" staying forever close in the weapon locker and I would like my "investements" worth something more than that.

 

Bye

 

 

Edited by PingOVER9000

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Posted (edited)

EDIT: Seems like APBDB is out of date, but recent enough to be accurate (March 7, 2020)

Let's get some math, see if the PMG is objectively matched to the OCA EW-626.
Numbers here assume using of Reflex Sight III & Cooling Jacket III (i.e. the norm).

Kills per mag

  • PMG : 4.2 (21x200 dmg / 1000 HP ) (Winner)
  • OCA : 3.75 (30x125 dmg / 1000 HP)

Minimum TTK

  • PMG : 0.650 sec
  • OCA : 0.650 sec

Firing Interval

  • PMG : 0.163 sec
  • OCA : 0.093 sec (Winner)

DPS

Formula : Damage / Firing Interval

  • PMG : 200/ 0.163 = 1227
  • OCA : 125/ 0.093 = 1344 (Winner)

Reload Time

  • PMG : 1.80 sec (Winner)
  • OCA : 1.90 sec

Equip Time

  • PMG : 1.00 sec
  • OCA : 0.80 sec (Winner)

Firing time yield
Formula : Magazine Capacity * Firing Interval / Reload Time

  • PMG : 21 * 0.163 / 0.180 = 19.02 (Winner)
  • OCA : 30 * 0.093 / 0.190 = 14.68

Damage over distance plot area

  • PMG : (200*35) + (60*65) + (200-60)*20/2 = 12300 (Winner)
  • OCA : (125*30) + (70*37) + (125-37)*20/2 = 7220

Sustained accuracy index
Formula : Shot Modifier Cap * (Recovery Per Shot - Modifier Per Shot)
Formula : Shot Modifier Cap * ( Min( Firing Interval - Recovery Delay, 0) * Recovery Per Second - Modifier Per Shot)

  • PMG : 1 * (0.063 * 7.2 - 0.5) = -0.046
  • OCA : 1.28 * (0.093 * 5.15 - 0.5) = -0.027 (Winner)

 

Reference:
https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_SMG_OCA_Slot3_Armas
https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_SMG_PMG_Slot3 Armas

The OCA is more forgiving if you miss a few shots, has a slightly higher DPS & has better sustained accuracy.

The PMG is better for melees (encountering multiple opponents), has time-efficient reloading & has a more versatile range.

 

Sustained accuracy is, arguably, not as important in CQC (<25m).
If both guns had slightly worse initial accuracy, or if Kevlar finally becomes viable, the OCA benefits could have a chance to shine more often.

Edited by Talla
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4 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

-snip

Ay man, I wasnt meaning that statement towards anyone specifically so I apologize if you feel attacked. Id personally like to Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts and opinion on the relative matter at hand and I hope the rest of your day/night goes well~


 

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16 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

I wonder what section of the nerf board the dart will land on next week.

 

Can I throw it next time?

It will be back at the PIG.  "Too much range and too powerful"

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Please nerf everything. Let's play just with stun grenades.
P.s. Thx to guys like this one. After their cries we've lost jumping scouts, n-hvr now sucks but NOT PSR OK. Nice try.

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Seems like people get hostile when you try and take their baby away (pmg)

 

but im agreeing with the statement where other weapons need to be buffed. 

 

But what weapons should be buffed? certainly not all of them. 

 

But why buff all the weapons in the game when you can just nerf one?

 

 

It almost seems like Little orbit needs to rebuild gun balance from the ground up.

After the engine upgrade, just privately test all the weapons and change their stats to something reasonable. even if that means having to change what a gun originally did.

 

again my personal beef with the PMG is that most people strafe with it, meaning you will need to have bot-like aim in order to track it enough to have the chance to kill it. Cause I have died to it even when im the first to shoot just because the pmg has no bloom debuff when moving/strafing.

 

and any bullet "RNG" factor seems to be non existent

 

 

And you guys, if this game is ever going to grow to be one of the greats, we are going to have to work together on this.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Sayori said:

Don't call me dear. I'm not your boyfriend, neither I'm interested. But if you are desperate to have your orifices filled just go buy one "toy" from Bad Dragon.

Oh great, going with straight up furry stereotype and insult I see. Can't wait for your next discriminatory slur because that's the best thing you can throw at me.

22 hours ago, Sayori said:

Isn't it funny how you don't want insults but at the same time  you literally wish me death?!

Next time use Google for words you don't know.

22 hours ago, Sayori said:

Go see a doctor, something is terribly wrong with your head.

Well funny you say that...

22 hours ago, Sayori said:

But hey, that's APB community in a nutshell.

Overgeneralization

22 hours ago, Sayori said:

This game will never take off, Engine Update is no tgoing to save APB because it's still going to be populated with people like you.

More with people like you - Kiddos who moan over every single gun every freaking month and how "something should be nerfed about them". But when pressed about why, you all go silent or like in this cases turn into insult offensive.

22 hours ago, Sayori said:

This thread is not about how I would fix pmg. Lots of things can be changed, bloom, recoil, accuracy loss for different modifiers. Range is "ok", maybe ttk can be increased.

You mean TTK of PMG? Or other guns? And for both no. Changing TTK is not solution to anything, more like way to ruin game even more.

And each even subtle change in gun affects it usability against other. But hey, let's fail to consider that! Let's just nerf one bothersome weapon and then cry next month over domino effect caused by it (people suddenly abandoning PMG to discover next "broken" weapon because it's easiest to use right now).

But as always, no serious arguments for nerf of PMG. Only "this can be changed".

22 hours ago, Sayori said:

well, asylum has lots of corners, it's all about shotguns and smgs. And right now JG is god tier and hard carry weapon. Thanks LO, I guess ?

Incoming moaning over JG. Again.

 

Thanks, you basically proved my point and crashed and burned when confronted (don't forget to google that term this time).

Ah, one more thing! Before offending users of certain weapons or cars, please produce any argument to why because I see nothing but slurs with nothing inserted into whole discourse.

Edited by Mitne
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Just remember that PGM turned to be a problem for YOU after nerfs of guns you previously asked for so loudly.

PMG was never a problem. I am just so fucking tired of your bullshoot

Just seeing you play like a bunch of ruaways from a mental health facility makes me want to never come back to this game ever again, becouse LO is actually listening to this silver IDIOTS cuz they cry so god damn loud.

You never have enough. If PMG is nerfed, Joker Carbine will turn you next big patootie whooping nightmare right after. Mark my words.

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Just buff Norsemans and make them 10 not 11 STK and we'll be all happy

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All the PMG needs is a range nerf and it would be fine. The gun ranges better then the TM and the TM you need to aim with, by all logic the gun you need to aim with should have the better range then a spray and prey hip fire. Up close the PMG should beat the TM however when you have a slight distance the TM should beat the PMG.

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3 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

Just remember that PGM turned to be a problem for YOU after nerfs of guns you previously asked for so loudly.

PMG was never a problem. I am just so fucking tired of your bullshoot

Just seeing you play like a bunch of ruaways from a mental health facility makes me want to never come back to this game ever again, becouse LO is actually listening to this silver IDIOTS cuz they cry so god damn loud.

You never have enough. If PMG is nerfed, Joker Carbine will turn you next big patootie whooping nightmare right after. Mark my words.

What the actual fuck are you on about mate?

You good dude?

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12 minutes ago, a Pair of Socks said:

What the actual fuck are you on about mate?

You good dude?

Its called air, mate. You should try to poke your head out of yo weed smoke filled room for a second or two.

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I have read this entire thread earlier today and I have just landed to play APB for an hour and a half.

For the past week I've been using PMG and now I played a few missions, and I had good performance with the strap.
Then I switched to OCA and played 3 missions with more or less the same enemies. I have seen no difference in my interactions with the enemies.

If I jump a guy without him knowing - I win. If I guy jumps me - I lose. If a guy is far away and has a HVR/rifle - I lose, need to switch to RFP. If my team covers me, and I cover them - I can do proper tactics and ambush folk.

There was a guy with a tommygun that would gun me down 6/10 times in fair CQB. There was a guy with some weird rifle that would gun down me in an alley from the other end of the courtyard.
I have a strong impression that if I git gud, I can make any gun work and it never comes down to one gun being objectively better than the other. 

I will gladly stick to OCA for the following week knowing that I am not putting myself at any disadvantage.

I totally agree with everything that AxeTurboAgresor said.

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