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Simple changes for APB weapon balancing

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3 hours ago, swft said:

Nice to see a document with actual values instead of just words

I am a proponent of LO's most recent decision to withhold the actual stat numbers of the currently proposed shotgun changes in an effort to discourage theory-crafting.

 

The end result of theory-crafting is oftentimes similar to what you'd see in Warframe, where people make builds for their frames/weapons that perform vastly differently in the Simulacrum than they do during actual play... when you can restrict the testing of your theorized build to the closed/sandboxed environment of a very small area with disproportionately thick mob density, the build is going to naturally more accurately hit the mark on the theorized performance, but when taken out into organic mission instances, performs extremely differently and in most cases will be comparatively underwhelming (though personal experience can attest to the reverse effect occasionally being the case.)

 

43 minutes ago, PvE said:

PMG within the document is nerfed, range and firerate wise. The carbine is an amazing weapon with an average TTK but maining it is pain due to the poor accuracy of the gun hence why it referred to as an "RNG Cannon" which isn't a term that should be used to describe a gun. Based on what is this is trying to accomplish is a sense of balance sure sub-classes will have around the same TTK but what more can be done with balance even if TTK is similar different guns have different mechanics. 

In the instance of these two guns, I can unashamedly admit that maybe what you propose for the PMG is more acceptable, but the carbine is as it stands currently able to lay the smack down in unrelenting amounts to pretty much any gun that falls within its range as any gun that has a comparable TTK is going to be much more difficult to control aside from perhaps the huntress, and in all instances of guns that reach beyond 35 meters, abusing car play makes it to where the only guns that are literally beyond its reach are the longest-ranged weapons that are typically used from rooftops and other places where cars can't just let you 'run up and gun up.'  Primarily this tends towards referencing sniper rifles, as most folks using the OBIR, Obeya Rifle, NTEC (and variants) may occasionally go for higher ground, they rarely choose a plot of high ground that is completely inaccessible to carplayers.  Snipers are the only class of weapon that seem to primarily lean on the rooftops and other high-ground environments that require several ladders and a minor "jump puzzle" to get to, being that they are intending to set up for a solid defend-camp.  Nothing against camping with the intended weapon in the right scenario, as that's intended gameplay, but the point remains that a car capable of taking a few bullets allows the carbine to, in essence, 'bully' pretty much any gun out of a spot where it's given an environmental advantage over the carbine's consistency of achievable TTK.  If you can jump out of a car on someone (given you're smart enough to jump out on the side that doesn't expose you to being shot) you're nearly guaranteed to beat out every gun with a slower ttk, most guns with a comparable ttk, and even some guns with a faster ttk depending on whether or not the opposed player is capable of keeping their cool and not falling victim to User Input Error based on the sudden panic that tends to come with being carplayed against when they are running a loadout that does not counter carplay.  Try to keep in mind that carplay lets higher rank players heavily abuse the fact that lower rank players have 0 anti-vehicle options that offer any versatility, being that their sole choice is an ALIG and literally nobody mains ALIG because it's a garbage anti-personnel weapon due to (humorously enough) having full out garbage bullet RNG when firing on people instead of cars. 

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Thoughts before going to bed; brief instead of a proper long post.

 

I disagree with most of these changes, though I believe that is likely due to how differences in where we would like to see the gunplay go.

 

Also I like that most of the vets you talked to are all in the same social circle and almost no one outside it. :^)

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2 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Thoughts before going to bed; brief instead of a proper long post.

 

I disagree with most of these changes, though I believe that is likely due to how differences in where we would like to see the gunplay go.

 

Also I like that most of the vets you talked to are all in the same social circle and almost no one outside it. :^)

I understand completely hence why i made this public and open for discussion. 

6 minutes ago, Running Eagle said:

I am a proponent of LO's most recent decision to withhold the actual stat numbers of the currently proposed shotgun changes in an effort to discourage theory-crafting.

 

The end result of theory-crafting is oftentimes similar to what you'd see in Warframe, where people make builds for their frames/weapons that perform vastly differently in the Simulacrum than they do during actual play... when you can restrict the testing of your theorized build to the closed/sandboxed environment of a very small area with disproportionately thick mob density, the build is going to naturally more accurately hit the mark on the theorized performance, but when taken out into organic mission instances, performs extremely differently and in most cases will be comparatively underwhelming (though personal experience can attest to the reverse effect occasionally being the case.)

 

In the instance of these two guns, I can unashamedly admit that maybe what you propose for the PMG is more acceptable, but the carbine is as it stands currently able to lay the smack down in unrelenting amounts to pretty much any gun that falls within its range as any gun that has a comparable TTK is going to be much more difficult to control aside from perhaps the huntress, and in all instances of guns that reach beyond 35 meters, abusing car play makes it to where the only guns that are literally beyond its reach are the longest-ranged weapons that are typically used from rooftops and other places where cars can't just let you 'run up and gun up.'  Primarily this tends towards referencing sniper rifles, as most folks using the OBIR, Obeya Rifle, NTEC (and variants) may occasionally go for higher ground, they rarely choose a plot of high ground that is completely inaccessible to carplayers.  Snipers are the only class of weapon that seem to primarily lean on the rooftops and other high-ground environments that require several ladders and a minor "jump puzzle" to get to, being that they are intending to set up for a solid defend-camp.  Nothing against camping with the intended weapon in the right scenario, as that's intended gameplay, but the point remains that a car capable of taking a few bullets allows the carbine to, in essence, 'bully' pretty much any gun out of a spot where it's given an environmental advantage over the carbine's consistency of achievable TTK.  If you can jump out of a car on someone (given you're smart enough to jump out on the side that doesn't expose you to being shot) you're nearly guaranteed to beat out every gun with a slower ttk, most guns with a comparable ttk, and even some guns with a faster ttk depending on whether or not the opposed player is capable of keeping their cool and not falling victim to User Input Error based on the sudden panic that tends to come with being carplayed against when they are running a loadout that does not counter carplay.  Try to keep in mind that carplay lets higher rank players heavily abuse the fact that lower rank players have 0 anti-vehicle options that offer any versatility, being that their sole choice is an ALIG and literally nobody mains ALIG because it's a garbage anti-personnel weapon due to (humorously enough) having full out garbage bullet RNG when firing on people instead of cars. 

I'm glad we came to an agreement on the PMG. What change would you say for the carbine leaving it as it is now (live servers) or implementing the change i have within the document and reducing the fire-rate like you mentioned before when you said "SLOWER TTK" ?

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1 hour ago, PvE said:

Offer some feedback it's all open for discussion.


Misery - Personally think the main issue I have the misery at the moment is the recoil getting bigger and more random with ever shot.

 

Strife - I kind of like the Strife where it is now, I don't see it around often either so I don't think it's really deserving of a nerf just yet, I think the clunkiness of the gun is one of the reasons it's not seen often. It's just one of those guns I feel is really satisfying to use.

It's not really competitive either too (mainly due to the refire rate), but thats OK because its fun in a way. Not every gun in the game needs to be meta or compete with meta. Some guns can just be a gimmick and the strife kind of fits that role of being a gimmicky niche gun thats fun but has big shortfalls.

 

Scout - I don't agree with the scout nerf honestly. I am on the opinion that needs to be more mobile than it's counterparts.

 

ACT/RSA - I don't think the ACT-44/RSA need to be fundamentally changed with their recent buffs. Maybe the golden act needs a tone down in some way (change of mod maybe)

 

OCSP - I dont agree that it's one of the worst secondaries. Underused sure, it's very accurate and honestly probably a "model" secondary. If anything the fbw should be less of a primary and more of a secondary like the rest of the secondary guns in the game. It is a secondary afterall, a backup weapon.

 

Everything else in there I either agree or sort of agree and I understand the reasoning behind the suggestions. A couple I don't have a real opinion on.

Edited by Shini
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I don't think a slower fire-rate would address it.  I think damage values ought to be adjusted.  That would make the gun less capable of pushing every other gun (again, aside from snipers on deep-roof dig-ins) out of its play-zone and pigeonholing them into its own.  I believe if you adjust the STK and leave the ROF alone, it is likely that less RNG (depending on whether you use RS3 or HS3, seeing as how the carbine's intent, as all 'semi-auto rifle's' intent, was to be versatile) would be acceptable.  Once upon a time the carbine was the ultra-versatile answer to CQC and mid range, the obeya rifle was the ultra-versatile answer to ARs and snipers who made the mistake of engaging from less than 75m, and the OBIR was the answer to snipers at all ranges (although OBIR still successfully fills the 'anti-kevlar' role it was designed for.)  Since OBIR is able to get off 3 bursts before HVR with CJ3 can get off 2 shots, it was an effective anti-sniper.  The risk/reward was that due to the overdamage it did, it was able to engage an HVR at mostly any range and win IF you landed all 3 bursts, but if you missed the 3rd burst you needed to IMMEDIATELY dive for cover because trying to be cocky and go for a 4th burst would most certainly get you dead as dead could be.  Quickswitching changed all that - and I'm deeply happy QSing was changed...

 

I'm drifting.  Point being, I think all the semi-autos are not in the place that they were designed for anymore, and could do with adjustment.  I believe leaving the ROF on the carbine but upping the STK could appropriately balance it having a tighter crosshair when paired with either RS3 or HS3, but it ought to probably remain somewhat loose if neither accuracy mod is used.

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I disagree and hate the most of nerf suggestion presented in the doc. Some suggestions are just way too crazy stupid.

I mean WhyTF  would u even think of nerfing STAR.

Your suggestion about Ursus shows just how bad you understand the weapon. There is no overkill damage on this gun so it needs more range to compensite that at lease somehow.

Nerfing STRIFE is just LOLable.

Also nice HVR nerfs. Like nobody is playing this crap anymore so why not just nerf this trash out of existence? Sniper rifle hits hard. Wow what a surprise. 

I simply dont understand why would u nerft RPFs magazine capacity if its ballanced. "just needed a range rework and a mag capacity rework to be less forgiving." - no it does NOT.

4 STK Nfas is absurd just like 3STK pump shotguns presented by some dev big brain.

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6 hours ago, Shini said:

 

Personally think the main issue I have the misery at the moment is the recoil getting bigger and more random with ever shot.

I kind of like the Strife where it is now, I don't see it around often either so I don't think it's really deserving of a nerf just yet, I think the clunkiness of the gun is one of the reasons it's not seen often.

I don't agree with the scout nerf honestly. I am on the opinion that needs to be more mobile than it's counterparts.

I don't think the ACT-44/RSA need to be fundamentally changed with their recent buffs. Maybe the golden act needs a tone down in some way (change of mod maybe)

OCSP, I dont agree that it's one of the worst secondaries. Underused sure, it's very accurate and honestly probably a "model" secondary. If anything the fbw should be less of a primary and more of a secondary like the rest of the secondary guns in the game. It is a secondary afterall, a backup weapon.

  • I agree the Misery needs a change for sure
  • Problem with strife is it's damage in general sure it's a lot but think of team situations you literally get hit once with basically any gun and then a strife will just 1 hit you. Also the over damage with pellets that influence range abuse, essentially you can 2 pump with strife 12m+ quite easily.
  • Scout one was thrown in their to see what people would think but it is still VERY mobile with that slight speed decrease (equivalent to the Euryale and NSSW)
  • Based on used the ACT-44/RSA it's a very well balanced gun but it just misses oblivious shot for no reason which is limited to just the bloom. Changing the modifier just allows hit to hit more consistently while keeping the TTK the exact same.
  • OCSP is a legendary which has a ton of potential but overhauling every secondary to be "less of a primary" is a lot of work but i actually really agree with you on that one, but for now i think i'm going to reduce the fire-rate since it's substantially more accurate than the FBW. 
6 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

I disagree and hate the most of nerf suggestion presented in the doc. Some suggestions are just way too crazy stupid.

I mean WhyTF  would u even think of nerfing STAR.

Your suggestion about Ursus shows just how bad you understand the weapon. There is no overkill damage on this gun so it needs more range to compensite that at lease somehow.

Nerfing STRIFE is just LOLable.

Also nice HVR nerfs. Like nobody is playing this crap anymore so why not just nerf this trash out of existence? Sniper rifle hits hard. Wow what a surprise. 

I simply dont understand why would u nerft RPFs magazine capacity if its ballanced. "just needed a range rework and a mag capacity rework to be less forgiving." - no it does NOT.

4 STK Nfas is absurd just like 3STK pump shotguns presented by some dev big brain.

I appreciate your input AxeTurboAgresor.

 

Merged.

 

6 hours ago, Running Eagle said:

I don't think a slower fire-rate would address it.  I think damage values ought to be adjusted.  That would make the gun less capable of pushing every other gun (again, aside from snipers on deep-roof dig-ins) out of its play-zone and pigeonholing them into its own.  I believe if you adjust the STK and leave the ROF alone, it is likely that less RNG (depending on whether you use RS3 or HS3, seeing as how the carbine's intent, as all 'semi-auto rifle's' intent, was to be versatile) would be acceptable.  Once upon a time the carbine was the ultra-versatile answer to CQC and mid range, the obeya rifle was the ultra-versatile answer to ARs and snipers who made the mistake of engaging from less than 75m, and the OBIR was the answer to snipers at all ranges (although OBIR still successfully fills the 'anti-kevlar' role it was designed for.)  Since OBIR is able to get off 3 bursts before HVR with CJ3 can get off 2 shots, it was an effective anti-sniper.  The risk/reward was that due to the overdamage it did, it was able to engage an HVR at mostly any range and win IF you landed all 3 bursts, but if you missed the 3rd burst you needed to IMMEDIATELY dive for cover because trying to be cocky and go for a 4th burst would most certainly get you dead as dead could be.  Quickswitching changed all that - and I'm deeply happy QSing was changed...

 

I'm drifting.  Point being, I think all the semi-autos are not in the place that they were designed for anymore, and could do with adjustment.  I believe leaving the ROF on the carbine but upping the STK could appropriately balance it having a tighter crosshair when paired with either RS3 or HS3, but it ought to probably remain somewhat loose if neither accuracy mod is used.

Incredibly well thought out i like the idea very much i believe this discussion can be a thread of it's own and don't have the ability to say if it would need another shot to kill while trading for great accuracy. For the time being i'm going to reduce the overall extent of the values i adjusted for the carbine.  

Edited by PvE
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6 hours ago, Shini said:


Misery - Personally think the main issue I have the misery at the moment is the recoil getting bigger and more random with ever shot.

 

Strife - I kind of like the Strife where it is now, I don't see it around often either so I don't think it's really deserving of a nerf just yet, I think the clunkiness of the gun is one of the reasons it's not seen often.

 

Scout - I don't agree with the scout nerf honestly. I am on the opinion that needs to be more mobile than it's counterparts.

 

ACT/RSA - I don't think the ACT-44/RSA need to be fundamentally changed with their recent buffs. Maybe the golden act needs a tone down in some way (change of mod maybe)

 

OCSP - I dont agree that it's one of the worst secondaries. Underused sure, it's very accurate and honestly probably a "model" secondary. If anything the fbw should be less of a primary and more of a secondary like the rest of the secondary guns in the game. It is a secondary afterall, a backup weapon.

 

Everything else in there I either agree or sort of agree and I understand the reasoning behind the suggestions. A couple I don't have a real opinion on.

Misery's recoil is in-line with where it should be as an AR and the recoil doesn't ramp, the crosshair bloom does -- but it doesn't bloom at all until after the 3rd bullet which means you can fire 3 rounds with literally 0 crosshair growth, let go for a split second, and fire the next two rounds with the same benefit.  It is literally a casual obeya rifle with 5m less range and comparable recoil mechanics.  (I think in the game assets it was literally called 'casualobeya' prior to its release.)

 

I actually 100% agree with you on strife.  It doesn't need a health or hard damage nerf, I don't think it needs pellet spread tightening or a range nerf (due to pellets being far too spread for it to actually do any good at 15m vs. anything but cars) and the reasonable tradeoff for its ability to delete cars AND people (and oneshot fragile, hah) is that it is ABSOLUTELY the slowest shotgun.... it has the highest skill floor of all the shotguns available, but if you are capable of utilizing footwork/WASDancing while simultaneously taking disciplined, patient aim before firing instead of falling to the JG/CSG tendency to spam max fire rate and spray pellets til the red name dies, you can pretty consistently out-gun both of the aforementioned.

 

There is not a single gun in the game aside from pistols (and even then, non-magnum-ammo pistols) that I can conceive of being capable of jumpshooting with any measure of accuracy.  The scout, anubis, and dog ear can jump shoot up to something like 20-30 meters with absolutely unnecessary accuracy.  There is no need for any gun at any point to be able to absolutely dominate at all play ranges, no matter how high the skill floor is.  Slap CJ3 on a sitting duck, practice jump shots, and you can massacre EVERYONE at EVERY range with something like 70-80% consistency, with two exceptions being someone who is point-blank on you because they were corner camping, and conversely a DMR/heavy HVR between 90-100m. That's the furthest thing from 'balanced' you could possibly get.

 

ACT and RSA got minor accuracy buffs recently.  I can tell heavily on the ACT.  It's visceral and very noticeable.  The RSA feels 100% unchanged, and with the same regularity feels as though its crosshair is 'lying' to me (meaning that the crosshair plainly shows I should not have missed the shot, but somehow have missed the shot.)   Maybe the RSA needs a range boost over the ACT in lieu of another accuracy buff, or it needs another accuracy buff.  Or a VERY MINOR ROF buff.  But compared to the ACT which has identical range, it will get out-ttk'd because the ACT will now more consistently land 4 shots at 69m than RSA will land 3 at the same range.

 

OCSP is amazeballs IMO if you use it in a fashion that's a bit outside the box.  It can reliably land shots all the way up to draw distance and while it will only be hitting for mosquito bites at that range, it's still a free Tagger for you and your teammates to use to keep an eye on a sniper, or anybody who happens to be at that range for any reason...heck, I'd use the OCSP for a free draw-distance tag AS a sniper just so I can more easily keep an eye on someone that keeps dipping between 99-101 meters on a defense objective or something.  Basically I don't know if OCSP was really intended to be a gun whose primary function was to be TTK-competitive with FBW and .45 as much as it is a solid mid-range pistol ith good accuracy, OR literally free tagger at any distance thanks to its insane accuracy but smol damage.

 

Merged.

 

6 hours ago, PvE said:

Incredibly well thought out

This is off-topic but I can't express to you how much I appreciate that comment.  I care enough about this game that if I thought it would be received positively I would go back to the old habit I had on Colby of gathering up all the bronzes and teaching them the things about weapon control and competitive gameplay that the game itself does not.  As an ex e-leaguer in the CPL circuit who at point was playing on Johnathan Wendel's team, I would like to think that I know what I'm talking about when I say that I have recognized APB's potential to be a true e-sport from the moment I first installed and played the game in 2013 which is the exact reason why I have insofar spent a grand total of something nearing $1,500 on the game (and close to $200 of that solely since my return less than a year ago to show my support for LO and in recognition of the fact that all money previously spent was not spent on them, and therefore could not count myself as a paying customer until I had invested into the current company.)

 

This game could actually live up to its $100,000,000 price point.  I believe it.  I know it for certain.  But in order to actually make it happen, there would need to be revolutionary changes not just in the weapon balance or gameplay mechanics in general, but in the mindset of the playerbase and active community.  I believe LO sees that potential, and truthfully PVE, I believe you can see that potential as well.

 

But it'll never be achieved if WE as the playerbase don't address OUR behavior first.  No matter how much they fix or change the game, it will amount to nothing if the community does not start treating the game in a way as to represent what they want it to become, and not what it has been, all the letdowns, broken promises, abusive business practices with outright unethical intention... if we can't set aside our petty squabbles and jaded cynicism from being burned by previous companies, LO won't be able to ever make us happy, let alone really fix anything....even if they actually fixed everything.

 

Way off-topic.  Sorry.  But I felt it was something that needed saying.  Again, mostly, thank you.

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Very nice work.

Im glad LO has this to look though.

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Before I go through the document changes individually, barring the weapon I'm about to talk about, I want to address the elephant in the room: The Strife.

 

The Strife exists in a very weird place. I personally think it's decent as it is but at the same time I see a lot of wasted potential that could be put into the weapon. I've seen a lot of people who want the weapon to remain virtually untouched, or they want to nerf it's two main selling points, but this to me says that the strife is in dire need of a total rework because nobody seems to be able to figure out what they want to do with it. Thankfully, the Strife is close to being an iconic weapon in shooter games and only needs a little push.

 

For those unaware, an iconic weapon in video games is a "Super Shotgun" of sorts, usually taking the form of a break action double barrel shotgun, typically arranged with side by side barrels instead of over/under configuration. This "Super Shotgun" features a few notable traits: Short range, small magazine (typically two shots at most), and a truckload of damage. Now look at the Strife. It's got a short range of 15m (which people keep wanting to nerf), a massive 950~ damage (which people keep wanting to nerf), a fairly small magazine compared to other shotguns (5 vs 8), and it's frequently cited as being useless since it's still a two-shot kill, but delivers those two shots much slower than both the CSG and JG. To me, this spells out entirely that the Strife needs to be reworked from the ground up, and we're so close to an iconic video game weapon that it's the only logical solution.

 

Reworking the Strife into being a double barrel "super shotgun" would fix most of it's problems, along with giving APB an iconic weapon that has been long overdue. Here's some stats I've come up with, using the stats provided here as a base:

 

  • Damage: 850
  • Accuracy: Unchanged from provided shotgun stats.
  • Drop off: ramp begins at 10m, ramp ends at 15m.
  • Fire interval: 0.70 (0.02 higher than provided CSG/JG stats.)
  • Reload time: 0.5 (Identical to Thumper, no partial reloads.)
  • Magazine capacity: 2. (Configured in a way that modifications don't affect it, similar to rocket launchers.)
  • Reserve ammo: 20. (-5 from shotgun stats.)

 

This rework accomplishes a few things that people keep saying they want in that the damage is lowered from 945/950 to 850, so now it's not one shotting anyone while still reliably killing even kevlar 3 users in two shots. Additionally, the range of the shotgun is now much shorter, which means that the shotgun won't be able to fling it's 850 damage very far. In essence, the Strife becomes the polar opposite of the HVR: Same damage, but instead of safely sitting away at 100m you're forced to get into the fray, pick fights, and be mobile. The Strife would now be a feast/famine weapon akin to the Colby .45 AP. You kill in two shots, you have two shots. If you miss, you lose. This allows Strife to retain its status as a niche weapon that people pick up to goof off with while still bringing it much higher on the "viability ladder" than it currently is. If you don't like the idea of having it be only two shots, then perhaps give it four shots instead and give it a model like this instead of a traditional double barrel.

 

Why do I keep arguing that the Strife should be made a double barrel? Aside from the fact that it's super close to being in that niche perfectly, it fits thematically too. Think about it, the Strife is sold in the Pack of Revelations, which is heavily themed around the apocalypse and other apocalyptic settings. You know what's a really common weapon in apocalyptic settings? The double barrel shotgun. The Metro games have one, Rage has one, the fallout games have them, a lot of indie apocalypse games have them. To quote Ahoy: "If there's one thing that guarantees the weapon's appearance, it's the apocalypse."

 

So, overall, it makes the most sense to me, especially given that people keep wanting to nerf it even though they'll also say that it's not viable in most cases.

 

Moving on.

 

NTEC/STAR changes: I disagree on making the magazines 24 rounds, why not go with 30? It's the gaming standard at this point and allows for more wiggle room when it comes to missed shots. Something I like to keep in mind is that not everyone has pinpoint, or even good, accuracy. The less rounds you give per magazine to people, the higher you raise the skill floor. Too high of a skill floor can prevent game growth, which leads to us having more problems with population than we already have. Relevant graph.

 

Ursus changes: Disagree on magazine change.

 

ATAC: Disagree entirely on the change, the ATAC is barely a problem and I barely see anyone use it outside of CQC since it behaves like an SMG.

 

Misery: Sure, it needs help.

 

COBR-A: I agree that it needs help, but as others have said I'm not 100% sure on how to help it without having it's niche idea erased. That being said I don't mind making it closer to an AR personally.

 

LCR: Agree that it could use a fire rate buff, but I worry about buffing it too much since it's largely a limited availability weapons.

 

Carbine: Sure, less RNG is good.

 

Shredder: Agree on buffing it's fire rate. I've said a few times that it feels like you could change the modifier to basically give it CJ3 for free and it still wouldn't be great.

 

CSG: Disagree on 675, maybe 700 instead?

 

NFAS: Agree.

 

Strife: See big wall of text above.

 

PMG: Sure. Though I worry about making it too similar to the OCA, or just making the OCA the go-to and the PMG irrelevant.

 

H-9 Curse: Sure. It could use a bit of a bump.

 

Whisper: I don't agree with putting it entirely in line just because it then begins to beg the question of "And the point is?", not to mention that minimum accuracy on SMG's is something to consider for trying to actually use it at 50m. I would be alright with tapping it down to 40m instead of slamming it to 30m.

 

HVR: I don't personally like nerfing the damage so much, but considering the amount of complaints it's received in general I'd rather wait and see how it works out rather than protesting the change immediately.

 

ISSR-B: Disagree on changes, it's not a popular weapon and it's already 4 STK, it being nerfed isn't going to fix it's status as a non-problem.

 

Scout: Disagree entirely. The point of the scout is to be a mobile sniper and it's already fairly balanced as is, not to mention it only does 550 damage and in most cases it only takes two seconds for someone with CJ3 to turn the 2 shot weapon into a 3 shot weapon.

 

Euryale: I don't disagree that it's a bit powerful, but I feel like I must point out that the SHAW has a lower TTK. Would have to see how it pans out.

 

ACT44/RSA: I agree with buffing the accuracy on them, they can feel a bit clunky sometimes.

 

RFP: Agree.

 

Showstopper: To be honest I barely see them, but sure I guess.

 

Snubnose: Sure.

 

OCSP: Sure.

 

PIG: Yes.

 

Perc: Sure.

 

Low-Yield: Sure.

 

Stun Grenade: Sure.

 

Volcano: I don't really know about this one. I can agree on an increased equip time but I'm not sure about the fire interval given it's two-rocket system. Perhaps a slightly longer wind up timer or something else?

 

Stun OPGL: Agree.

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Meanwhile Shotguns are still being reworked on after months of failures... wake me up please when this is all over.

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39 minutes ago, Freewind said:

Reworking the Strife into being a double barrel "super shotgun"

I find this idea quite intriguing as it makes the gun even more of a counter against kevlar users, but still requires a degree of aim. Not entirely sure how this will pan out in actual gameplay though...

 

As for the document:

  • Scout doesn't need a nerf
  • Hesitant on the LTL nerfs, since they don't see much use anyways. 
  • Skimming through the document, I get a slight feeling that some weapons were over-nerfed based on how overpowered or irritating they previously were. Just a reminder to use an objective mindset when dealing with such weapons.
  • That said, a number of the changes were rather agreeable.

 

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My first thought about a long list is don't mess with things that aren't broken, so I think a lot of these guns are 'good enough', I'll leave out things I think are fine as is, as well as things that I do not have a decided opinion on: Things listed that I completely agree with proposed: Misery, Cobr-a, ATAC (but it should be .75 ttk or under as to make sure it'd not too big of a "nerf"), Whisper, Shredder, OSCP, AMG (and probably more I didn't remember to list)

 

ARs are the weapon type I have the most experience with, and I've said that mag size is too high ever since it was a proposed by LO for the N-Tec initially, 24-28 sounds better than what we have currently, might not seem like it would change much but little things can go a long way for overall balance

 

For the NFAS I feel like a fire interval time increase is a simple enough fix, that and a longer reload time to punish EM3 more

 

I feel like that's too harsh of a PMG nerf, maybe just the 25m range nerf and not the slower ttk, maybe .18 instead? That would hardly be a difference however


HVR, I like these stats for damage much better than the current ones, but I dont really know if equip time really needs to but touched, I feel like that would make it feel clunkier for the f2p who rents the no slot 

 

The Scout having a slight movement penality would be fine, I'd like it alot if this nerf was an excuse to buff the dmg to 575-600 since CA3 users literally start healing before you can get the 2nd shot off

 

SNR is such a unique secondary, I don't think it should be touched other than either a slight ttk buff (I know it's niche is being a finisher but 1.5 is high for any close range secondary) or an accuracy buff (so you don't have to just pray to the RNG gods you land a shot beyond hugging distance)

 

I also think we can agree PIG too stronk, maybe 750, 600 stamina dmg feels low for a gun that is that risky to use

 

Yes on Volcano, if we are touching it I'd like to see the max damage or blast radius tweaked down a small amount, you have 2 friggen rockets after all

-

I'll add in one thing I'd like to see changed; SHAW and ALIG movement penalty is too harsh, especially since no Armas exclusive LMG (or sniper actually) has this much of a penalty

 

Edited by Acornie
Typos of course

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5 hours ago, Shini said:

Strife - I kind of like the Strife where it is now, I don't see it around often either so I don't think it's really deserving of a nerf just yet, I think the clunkiness of the gun is one of the reasons it's not seen often. It's just one of those guns I feel is really satisfying to use.

It's not really competitive either too (mainly due to the refire rate), but thats OK because its fun in a way. Not every gun in the game needs to be meta or compete with meta. Some guns can just be a gimmick and the strife kind of fits that role of being a gimmicky niche gun thats fun but has big shortfalls.

Totally agree with you, I don't feel like the Strife needs a nerf either.

 

If you exclude outside interference, apples to apples the Strife is almost 2x slower to kill than all the other shotguns.

Now I know that in practice it tends to one-shot quite a bit when playing with a team (it is a support weapon like the HVR afterall), but I feel it doesn't need to be touched. Maybe a slight range nerf if people really see that weapon as such a threat. But IMO, it should remain that slow, fun, high risk, hard hitting shotgun it's supposed to be (it also has really strong AV abilities).

I'm one of the few people to actually main it, and to be honest I'd be really sad if it just became a worse JG-ish shotgun.

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4 hours ago, Freewind said:
 

Before I go through the document changes individually, barring the weapon I'm about to talk about, I want to address the elephant in the room: The Strife.

 


 

The Strife exists in a very weird place. I personally think it's decent as it is but at the same time I see a lot of wasted potential that could be put into the weapon. I've seen a lot of people who want the weapon to remain virtually untouched, or they want to nerf it's two main selling points, but this to me says that the strife is in dire need of a total rework because nobody seems to be able to figure out what they want to do with it. Thankfully, the Strife is close to being an iconic weapon in shooter games and only needs a little push.

 

For those unaware, an iconic weapon in video games is a "Super Shotgun" of sorts, usually taking the form of a break action double barrel shotgun, typically arranged with side by side barrels instead of over/under configuration. This "Super Shotgun" features a few notable traits: Short range, small magazine (typically two shots at most), and a truckload of damage. Now look at the Strife. It's got a short range of 15m (which people keep wanting to nerf), a massive 950~ damage (which people keep wanting to nerf), a fairly small magazine compared to other shotguns (5 vs 8), and it's frequently cited as being useless since it's still a two-shot kill, but delivers those two shots much slower than both the CSG and JG. To me, this spells out entirely that the Strife needs to be reworked from the ground up, and we're so close to an iconic video game weapon that it's the only logical solution.

 

Reworking the Strife into being a double barrel "super shotgun" would fix most of it's problems, along with giving APB an iconic weapon that has been long overdue. Here's some stats I've come up with, using the stats provided here as a base:

 

Damage: 850

Accuracy: Unchanged from provided shotgun stats.

Drop off: ramp begins at 10m, ramp ends at 15m.

Fire interval: 0.70 (0.02 higher than provided CSG/JG stats.)

Reload time: 0.5 (Identical to Thumper, no partial reloads.)

Magazine capacity: 2. (Configured in a way that modifications don't affect it, similar to rocket launchers.)

Reserve ammo: 20. (-5 from shotgun stats.)

 

This rework accomplishes a few things that people keep saying they want in that the damage is lowered from 945/950 to 850, so now it's not one shotting anyone while still reliably killing even kevlar 3 users in two shots. Additionally, the range of the shotgun is now much shorter, which means that the shotgun won't be able to fling it's 850 damage very far. In essence, the Strife becomes the polar opposite of the HVR: Same damage, but instead of safely sitting away at 100m you're forced to get into the fray, pick fights, and be mobile. The Strife would now be a feast/famine weapon akin to the Colby .45 AP. You kill in two shots, you have two shots. If you miss, you lose. This allows Strife to retain its status as a niche weapon that people pick up to goof off with while still bringing it much higher on the "viability ladder" than it currently is. If you don't like the idea of having it be only two shots, then perhaps give it four shots instead and give it a model like this instead of a traditional double barrel.

 

Why do I keep arguing that the Strife should be made a double barrel? Aside from the fact that it's super close to being in that niche perfectly, it fits thematically too. Think about it, the Strife is sold in the Pack of Revelations, which is heavily themed around the apocalypse and other apocalyptic settings. You know what's a really common weapon in apocalyptic settings? The double barrel shotgun. The Metro games have one, Rage has one, the fallout games have them, a lot of indie apocalypse games have them. To quote Ahoy: "If there's one thing that guarantees the weapon's appearance, it's the apocalypse."

 

So, overall, it makes the most sense to me, especially given that people keep wanting to nerf it even though they'll also say that it's not viable in most cases.

 

Moving on.

 

NTEC/STAR changes: I disagree on making the magazines 24 rounds, why not go with 30? It's the gaming standard at this point and allows for more wiggle room when it comes to missed shots. Something I like to keep in mind is that not everyone has pinpoint, or even good, accuracy. The less rounds you give per magazine to people, the higher you raise the skill floor. Too high of a skill floor can prevent game growth, which leads to us having more problems with population than we already have. Relevant graph.

 

Ursus changes: Disagree on magazine change.

 

ATAC: Disagree entirely on the change, the ATAC is barely a problem and I barely see anyone use it outside of CQC since it behaves like an SMG.

 

Misery: Sure, it needs help.

 

COBR-A: I agree that it needs help, but as others have said I'm not 100% sure on how to help it without having it's niche idea erased. That being said I don't mind making it closer to an AR personally.

 

LCR: Agree that it could use a fire rate buff, but I worry about buffing it too much since it's largely a limited availability weapons.

 

Carbine: Sure, less RNG is good.

 

Shredder: Agree on buffing it's fire rate. I've said a few times that it feels like you could change the modifier to basically give it CJ3 for free and it still wouldn't be great.

 

CSG: Disagree on 675, maybe 700 instead?

 

NFAS: Agree.

 

Strife: See big wall of text above.

 

PMG: Sure. Though I worry about making it too similar to the OCA, or just making the OCA the go-to and the PMG irrelevant.

 

H-9 Curse: Sure. It could use a bit of a bump.

 

Whisper: I don't agree with putting it entirely in line just because it then begins to beg the question of "And the point is?", not to mention that minimum accuracy on SMG's is something to consider for trying to actually use it at 50m. I would be alright with tapping it down to 40m instead of slamming it to 30m.

 

HVR: I don't personally like nerfing the damage so much, but considering the amount of complaints it's received in general I'd rather wait and see how it works out rather than protesting the change immediately.

 

ISSR-B: Disagree on changes, it's not a popular weapon and it's already 4 STK, it being nerfed isn't going to fix it's status as a non-problem.

 

Scout: Disagree entirely. The point of the scout is to be a mobile sniper and it's already fairly balanced as is, not to mention it only does 550 damage and in most cases it only takes two seconds for someone with CJ3 to turn the 2 shot weapon into a 3 shot weapon.

 

Euryale: I don't disagree that it's a bit powerful, but I feel like I must point out that the SHAW has a lower TTK. Would have to see how it pans out.

 

ACT44/RSA: I agree with buffing the accuracy on them, they can feel a bit clunky sometimes.

 

RFP: Agree.

 

Showstopper: To be honest I barely see them, but sure I guess.

 

Snubnose: Sure.

 

OCSP: Sure.

 

PIG: Yes.

 

Perc: Sure.

 

Low-Yield: Sure.

 

Stun Grenade: Sure.

 

Volcano: I don't really know about this one. I can agree on an increased equip time but I'm not sure about the fire interval given it's two-rocket system. Perhaps a slightly longer wind up timer or something else?

 

Stun OPGL: Agree.

 

Oh my..... what a wonderful read lets break it down!

  • Strife - This probably the best fix I've ever seen for the strife so far it makes a lot of sense on so many levels 850 damage is a wonderful number and only 2 shots i love it!
  • Ntec/STAR - Mag rework was offered on the table due to prolonged firing at an enemy, you shouldn't be firing at a target for over 5 seconds cause your mag is huge and sustaining long range fights for infinity i honestly don't think it will effect much.
  • Ursus - This change is based on the PMG and Misery mag size being that of 20.
  • ATAC - A lot of disliked feedback with the atac removing any changes to it completely.
  • JG - 700 seems fine to change to.
  • PMG - The fire-rate is slowed not increased so it's a double stat nerf.
  • ISSR-B - The nerf is HARD DAMAGE not Health Damage (Hard damage is damage done to vehicles)
  • Scout - The community seems on edge with this change most likely going to remove the change.
  • Volcano - Basically what those stats are explaining is.... the the wind-up time for the Volcano is 1.25s and the fire interval is 1.0s i just wanted to match the wind-up time and the fire interval so its just....1.25 > first rocket > 1.25 > second rocket. This gives volcano a little bit of a dodging chance.

 

Merged.

 

1 hour ago, Acornie said:
 

My first thought about a long list is 

don't mess with things that aren't broken, so I think a lot of these guns are 'good enough', I'll leave out things I think are fine as is, as well as things that I do not have a decided opinion on: Things listed that I completely agree with proposed: Misery, Cobr-a, ATAC (but it should be .75 ttk or under as to make sure it'd not too big of a "nerf"), Whisper, Shredder, OSCP, AMG (and probably more I didn't remember to list)

 

ARs are the weapon type I have the most experience with, and I've said that mag size is too high ever since it was a proposed by LO for the N-Tec initially, 24-28 sounds better than what we have currently, might not seem like it would change much but little things can go a long way for overall balance

 

For the NFAS I feel like a fire interval time increase is a simple enough fix, that and a longer reload time to punish EM3 more

 

I feel like that's too harsh of a PMG nerf, maybe just the 25m range nerf and not the slower ttk, maybe .18 instead? That would hardly be a difference however


HVR, I like these stats for damage much better than the current ones, but I dont really know if equip time really needs to but touched, I feel like that would make it feel clunkier for the f2p who rents the no slot 

 

The Scout having a slight movement penality would be fine, I'd like it alot if this nerf was an excuse to buff the dmg to 575-600 since CA3 users literally start healing before you can get the 2nd shot off

 

SNR is such a unique secondary, I don't think it should be touched other than either a slight ttk buff (I know it's niche is being a finisher but 1.5 is high for any close range secondary) or an accuracy buff (so you don't have to just pray to the RNG gods you land a shot beyond hugging distance)

 

I also think we can agree PIG too stronk, maybe 750, 600 stamina dmg feels low for a gun that is that risky to use

 

Yes on Volcano, if we are touching it I'd like to see the max damage or blast radius tweaked down a small amount, you have 2 friggen rockets after all

-

I'll add in one thing I'd like to see changed; SHAW and ALIG movement penalty is too harsh, especially since no Armas exclusive LMG (or sniper actually) has this much of a penalty

 

  • Nfas - Can definitely extent the reload time.
  • HVR - I agree with the equip time reverting to original.
  • Scout - 100% on the health damage increase can't believe that was overlooked damage is now 580 instead of 550.
  • PIG - Considering raising the overall Stamina Damage.
  • SHAW/ALIG - That's an interesting one needs further input.
  • Volcano - Blast Radius is something i think should be addressed to.
Edited by PvE
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Ntec:

 

I like the jump shooting aspect, but it's too accurate.

 

nerf jump shooting slightly.

i'd also consider raising the ttk to .75

i'd also consider making the gun 10% more innacurate.  i feel the gun benefits too strongly from hs3.

 

keep the magazine nerf, but consider a number that works with magazine pull 3.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Star:

 

I wouldn't touch this gun.  even the ammo

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ursus: 

 

Lower the damage of the gun to 205. 

 

raise the ttk to 0.75

 

keep the range at 50M  Maybe make the minimum damage % of the gun lower.  Like 25% could work.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATAC: 

 

Increase the vertical recoil on this gun.  Currently it's just too easy to control.

It doesn't need a ttk nerf.  It's just noob proof.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Misery: 

Now this gun is whack.

 

It should be 55M with a minimum damage % of 35%

 

0.8

Lower the recoil.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COBR-A: 

 

I want this gun to be a auto matic slightly worse accuracy on-the-move carbine.

 

40m range

moderate bloom on move. think huntress

10% more accurate than a carbine while standing.

good marksman.  think similar to atac on full bloom.

 

0.75 ttk.

 

6 shots to kill

 

190 damage.

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LCR:

odd gun again. it just isn't accurate, and sometimes it feels like it misses.  so maybe it shoots outside of the crosshair more than it should.

i'd lower the ttk as well.  maybe consider making it shoot farther to compete with obeya/obir.

 

1.0 ttk.

65m range

 

5 hits to kill.  240 damage per shot.

 

make the marksman mode better.  It just sucked.

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marksman

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carbine: 

 

 

maybe consider making the bloom recovery better

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FFA “Bullshark”: WIP

 

this gun is dumb.  make it start off by shooting 3, and lower the damage.  make it a really tough 3 shot kill.

 

120 damage per shot.  9 shot ttk.  have to hit 3 then 3 then 3.  shoots 3, 4 ,5 ,6, 7, 8.  it has 40 ammo.  

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obir / FFA 3 Slot: WIP

 

Possibly lower damage to make it 150 damage a shot with slightly faster marksman movespeed.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pointman

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shredder: 

 

possibly consider increasing the range on this gun, and making it near a 1.2 ttk. 

you could consider tightening the spread.

maybe make it a 4 shot kill with 8 in the magazine.

 

300 damage per shot.  and at 30m you can possible hit for 100 - 150.  You still have to chunk them, but they'll die like any other gun.

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JG: 

was it really 775???

 

 

I'd make this a 600 blaster with a moderate spread.  at 20M you maybe hit for 200.

0.85 ttk.  I think shotguns just shoot too fast to compete against sometimes.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CSG/TAS: WIP

 

 

i really want this to shoot slugs.  Tight spread with 450 damage.  aim bad and you miss.  shoots 25M,

 

at 25M you should hit them for 250 - 350 with the potential 3 smacker if they're out in the open and you aim perfect center.  Think fast NL9.

 

0.95 TTK. decent recoil.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NFAS: 

 

0.7 TTK. competes with smgs.  4 shots to kill.  maybe lower the damage possibly. so you can't kill anyone at 15-20M with 6 shots.  I think something like 270 would be good.  you have to meat shot 4 times to kill them or close to it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strife: 

 

you know i like the changes you listed.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PMG/Bolt: 

 

get rid of the crouch bonus accraucy or give that bonus to the OCA as well.

range should be 25M i agree.

 

I don't like how the PMG feels like it's RNG all the time as well.  SO maybe the range should be higher with no crouch bonus.

35M range still with no crouch bonus could work.

 

Possible other changes.  Make it the same .7 TTK but with 6 shots instead of 5.

Sometimes the stars align, and you get that 5/5 ezpz.  Maybe going  away from 5 hits could make it less rng based.

 

180 damage.  6 hits.  .7 ttk.  35M range. no crouch bonus

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

H-9 ‘Curse’: 

 

i like the changes here.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OCA 'Whisper': 

 

No crouch bonus and no 50m RANGE.  the extra zoom is good enough.  and it has the smg silencer.  maybe a marksman bonus movement would be good.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sniper

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HVR: 

 

I'd honestly lower the damage to 745.  That way someone has to tag you with 2 bullets from most guns, or another hard  hitting weapon.

It just sucks to get hit once they get spit on.  regen time after being hit sucks too

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

N-ISSR-B: 

 

Lose the range. keep the fire interval.

Shoots 70m now.

45 hard damage is fair.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISSR-A: WIP

 

 

I think this gun sucks.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scout: 

This gun seems really fair.  I would leave it alone.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Machinegunner

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Euryale:

 

more horizontal recoil.

movementspeed.  Think NTEC LMG

.65 TTK.

Gun zooms into marksman slower so you can't just crouch slam people in CQC.  You need to have more punishment.

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunslinger

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Act44 is stupid.  Slow down the ttk.  Slow down the Recoil.

Less fire rate

Maybe a 1.6 TTK

Less horizontal recoil

 

RSA is fair.  Leave that one alone.  you aim well, you hit.  The ttk is fine too.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RFP:

 

maybe 15 round magazine.

25M dropoff

Decent sprint shooting

Same ttk.

Marksman mode should never be as good as it was.  Make is slightly more accurate thank oscar Marskman mode.  maybe like 10% more.

Same recoil per shot, not much bloom.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Showstopper:

 

4 shot kill sounds fine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Snub-Nose: 

Increased mag capacity to 8 from 6 

Increased damage to 333 from 300

 

I like these two changes.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OCSP: 

 

This gun is problematic because the bloom recovery is very low.  It would be kinda cool if this was a 7 shot pelter from 35m

 

Maybe think of increasing the bloom recovery.  It would make the gun very accurate, but if you go max fire rate, i feel it should act like a joker carbine with cj2 on it.  controllable bloom.

 

7 hits would be fair.  possibly think of increasing the fire-rate to compensate.  1.15 ttk.  150 damage per shot.  35m range.  controllable bloom recovery with a semi-accurate first shot.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PIG:

Decreased stamina damage to 600 from 950

fair change

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grenadier/Demolition

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Percussion Grenade: 

Decrease explosion radius to 450 from 550

 

also fair.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Low-Yield Grenade: Based on pre-nerf Low-Yields

 

same damage. smaller blast radius.  and you carry 2.  I like that.

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stun Grenade: 

Decrease stamina damage to 750 from 1,000

 

This will be fair because then you just get 2 shot by any other stun gun and you'll get stunned.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volcano: 

Increase equip time to 1.0 from 0.70 

Increase fire interval to 1.25 from 1.00

 

These changes seem fair.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stun OPGL: 

Decrease the radius to 750 from 1,000

Decrease stamina damage to 750 from 980

 

these changes also seem fair.

 

 

 

 

Other guns i THought OF.

 

aces rifle.  Make this gun have slightly lower bloom per shot.

aces smg. Make this gun have slightly lower bloom per shot.

The aces series are good, but if you hold them down, or burst with them too long, they just suck.  you could make the first 5 shots have a lot less recoil, so it would be more of a curve like the tommy gun.

 

 

SCOPED NTEC - more accuracy while moving.  not quite an ntec but 60% of the difference sounds good.  i feel like that punishes the gun too much sometimes.  it already is outclassed.

 

ALIG - less hard damage.  slower ttk.  same health damage. more accurate. same recoil.

I think that would be fun 🙂  I realize it's a vehicle gun.  It's  really good at that, but I want to kill with it as well. Not shaw status, but somewhere in between.  Imagine being robertino for a day.

 

 

I don't hold a lot of these opinions too strongly.  These are just some cool ideas i've thought of just now!!!

 

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14 minutes ago, RemoteDet said:

Ntec:



 

I like the jump shooting aspect, but it's too accurate.

 

nerf jump shooting slightly.

i'd also consider raising the ttk to .75

i'd also consider making the gun 10% more innacurate.  i feel the gun benefits too strongly from hs3.

 

keep the magazine nerf, but consider a number that works with magazine pull 3.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Star:

 

I wouldn't touch this gun.  even the ammo

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ursus: 

 

Lower the damage of the gun to 205. 

 

raise the ttk to 0.75

 

keep the range at 50M  Maybe make the minimum damage % of the gun lower.  Like 25% could work.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATAC: 

 

Increase the vertical recoil on this gun.  Currently it's just too easy to control.

It doesn't need a ttk nerf.  It's just noob proof.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Misery: 

Now this gun is whack.

 

It should be 55M with a minimum damage % of 35%

 

0.8

Lower the recoil.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COBR-A: 

 

I want this gun to be a auto matic slightly worse accuracy on-the-move carbine.

 

40m range

moderate bloom on move. think huntress

10% more accurate than a carbine while standing.

good marksman.  think similar to atac on full bloom.

 

0.75 ttk.

 

6 shots to kill

 

190 damage.

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LCR:

odd gun again. it just isn't accurate, and sometimes it feels like it misses.  so maybe it shoots outside of the crosshair more than it should.

i'd lower the ttk as well.  maybe consider making it shoot farther to compete with obeya/obir.

 

1.0 ttk.

65m range

 

5 hits to kill.  240 damage per shot.

 

make the marksman mode better.  It just sucked.

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marksman

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carbine: 

 

 

maybe consider making the bloom recovery better

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FFA “Bullshark”: WIP

 

this gun is dumb.  make it start off by shooting 3, and lower the damage.  make it a really tough 3 shot kill.

 

120 damage per shot.  9 shot ttk.  have to hit 3 then 3 then 3.  shoots 3, 4 ,5 ,6, 7, 8.  it has 40 ammo.  

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obir / FFA 3 Slot: WIP

 

Possibly lower damage to make it 150 damage a shot with slightly faster marksman movespeed.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pointman

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shredder: 

 

possibly consider increasing the range on this gun, and making it near a 1.2 ttk. 

you could consider tightening the spread.

maybe make it a 4 shot kill with 8 in the magazine.

 

300 damage per shot.  and at 30m you can possible hit for 100 - 150.  You still have to chunk them, but they'll die like any other gun.

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JG: 

was it really 775???

 

 

I'd make this a 600 blaster with a moderate spread.  at 20M you maybe hit for 200.

0.85 ttk.  I think shotguns just shoot too fast to compete against sometimes.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CSG/TAS: WIP

 

 

i really want this to shoot slugs.  Tight spread with 450 damage.  aim bad and you miss.  shoots 25M,

 

at 25M you should hit them for 250 - 350 with the potential 3 smacker if they're out in the open and you aim perfect center.  Think fast NL9.

 

0.95 TTK. decent recoil.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NFAS: 

 

0.7 TTK. competes with smgs.  4 shots to kill.  maybe lower the damage possibly. so you can't kill anyone at 15-20M with 6 shots.  I think something like 270 would be good.  you have to meat shot 4 times to kill them or close to it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strife: 

 

you know i like the changes you listed.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PMG/Bolt: 

 

get rid of the crouch bonus accraucy or give that bonus to the OCA as well.

range should be 25M i agree.

 

I don't like how the PMG feels like it's RNG all the time as well.  SO maybe the range should be higher with no crouch bonus.

35M range still with no crouch bonus could work.

 

Possible other changes.  Make it the same .7 TTK but with 6 shots instead of 5.

Sometimes the stars align, and you get that 5/5 ezpz.  Maybe going  away from 5 hits could make it less rng based.

 

180 damage.  6 hits.  .7 ttk.  35M range. no crouch bonus

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

H-9 ‘Curse’: 

 

i like the changes here.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OCA 'Whisper': 

 

No crouch bonus and no 50m RANGE.  the extra zoom is good enough.  and it has the smg silencer.  maybe a marksman bonus movement would be good.

 

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Sniper

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HVR: 

 

I'd honestly lower the damage to 745.  That way someone has to tag you with 2 bullets from most guns, or another hard  hitting weapon.

It just sucks to get hit once they get spit on.  regen time after being hit sucks too

 

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N-ISSR-B: 

 

Lose the range. keep the fire interval.

Shoots 70m now.

45 hard damage is fair.

 

 

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ISSR-A: WIP

 

 

I think this gun sucks.

 

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Scout: 

This gun seems really fair.  I would leave it alone.

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Machinegunner

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Euryale:

 

more horizontal recoil.

movementspeed.  Think NTEC LMG

.65 TTK.

Gun zooms into marksman slower so you can't just crouch slam people in CQC.  You need to have more punishment.

 

 

 

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Gunslinger

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Act44 is stupid.  Slow down the ttk.  Slow down the Recoil.

Less fire rate

Maybe a 1.6 TTK

Less horizontal recoil

 

RSA is fair.  Leave that one alone.  you aim well, you hit.  The ttk is fine too.

 

 

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RFP:

 

maybe 15 round magazine.

25M dropoff

Decent sprint shooting

Same ttk.

Marksman mode should never be as good as it was.  Make is slightly more accurate thank oscar Marskman mode.  maybe like 10% more.

Same recoil per shot, not much bloom.

 

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Showstopper:

 

4 shot kill sounds fine.

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Snub-Nose: 

Increased mag capacity to 8 from 6 

Increased damage to 333 from 300

 

I like these two changes.

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OCSP: 

 

This gun is problematic because the bloom recovery is very low.  It would be kinda cool if this was a 7 shot pelter from 35m

 

Maybe think of increasing the bloom recovery.  It would make the gun very accurate, but if you go max fire rate, i feel it should act like a joker carbine with cj2 on it.  controllable bloom.

 

7 hits would be fair.  possibly think of increasing the fire-rate to compensate.  1.15 ttk.  150 damage per shot.  35m range.  controllable bloom recovery with a semi-accurate first shot.

 

 

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PIG:

Decreased stamina damage to 600 from 950

fair change

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Grenadier/Demolition

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Percussion Grenade: 

Decrease explosion radius to 450 from 550

 

also fair.  

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Low-Yield Grenade: Based on pre-nerf Low-Yields

 

same damage. smaller blast radius.  and you carry 2.  I like that.

 

 

 

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Stun Grenade: 

Decrease stamina damage to 750 from 1,000

 

This will be fair because then you just get 2 shot by any other stun gun and you'll get stunned.

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Volcano: 

Increase equip time to 1.0 from 0.70 

Increase fire interval to 1.25 from 1.00

 

These changes seem fair.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stun OPGL: 

Decrease the radius to 750 from 1,000

Decrease stamina damage to 750 from 980

 

these changes also seem fair.

 

 

 

 

Other guns i THought OF.

 

aces rifle.  Make this gun have slightly lower bloom per shot.

aces smg. Make this gun have slightly lower bloom per shot.

The aces series are good, but if you hold them down, or burst with them too long, they just suck.  you could make the first 5 shots have a lot less recoil, so it would be more of a curve like the tommy gun.

 

 

SCOPED NTEC - more accuracy while moving.  not quite an ntec but 60% of the difference sounds good.  i feel like that punishes the gun too much sometimes.  it already is outclassed.

 

ALIG - less hard damage.  slower ttk.  same health damage. more accurate. same recoil.

I think that would be fun 🙂  I realize it's a vehicle gun.  It's  really good at that, but I want to kill with it as well. Not shaw status, but somewhere in between.  Imagine being robertino for a day.

 

 

I don't hold a lot of these opinions too strongly.  These are just some cool ideas i've thought of just now!!!

 

  • Ntec - Jump shooting nerf already hit live servers i miss it but it doesn't effect much at all. TTK can be raised with a slightly slower fire-rate. Mag size was based on the FAR as a baseline for 6 shot AR's.
  • Star - I disagree keeping it the mag size at 32 you can literally hip-fire while running at an enemy for a full 5 seconds makes no sense nor will it change the star at all.
  • Ursus - Health damage can be decreased to 205 but even if you lower the damage drop-off to 45m i believe it will still 5 hit at 50m without IR3. Fire interval can be increased slightly to achieve the .75 TTK.
  • ATAC - More recoil would be nice
  • Misery - Need more work and input.
  • COBR-A - Most people seem to value this gun as a carbine alternative at this point it just needs to be moved to the marksman category. Reworking this gun to fit as a carbine alternative.
  • LCR - I agree with this change in the reworks.
  • Carbine - I agree with this change in the reworks
  • FFA " Bullshark" - Needs more work and input.
  • Obir - Definitely needs a damage nerf not to sure on the marksman speed benefit.
  • Shredder - Interesting change.
  • JG - I do think the fire-rate needs to be decreased slightly 
  • CSG/TAS - Making it like the lethal version of the NL9 would be amazing
  • NFAS - Pretty close to what was aimed for basically a flamethrower.
  • PMG - Needs more work and input but i like the crouch bonus removal.
  • OCA 'Whisper' - I like it.
  • HVR - Damage is still being consulted.
  • N-ISSR-B - Seems fair. 
  • ISSR-A - XD
  • Scout - This was addressed in a previous post damage is now 580 run modifier was reverted.
  • Euryale - This an incredibly hard one to manage stat wise but i like the slower zoom.
  • Act44 - I agree needs a fire-rate decrease.
  • RSA - Agree.
  • RFP - 15 round mag is doable. 25m range is something we need more input on. Slight base accuracy can be decreased.
  • OCSP - I recommend re trying this weapon as it's nearly twice as accurate as the FBW.
  • ACES SMG/RIFLE - Adding those to the list.
  • Scoped NTEC - Considered.
  • ALIG - I agree with the accuracy part while under marksman benefits not so much the lower TTK.

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8 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Yeah, fuck giving weapons mobility/jumping in a fast paced shooter. 

 

 

Might as well screw over blue mods on it as an added.

You know that mobility and accuracy is where i'd love to see LO take the gun play but unfortunately I don't think that LO wants to go that direction. I think this document is an attempt at a middle ground in hopes other people we don't personally or directly know can offer some input and maybe even be noticed by LO.

  • Like 2

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2 hours ago, PvE said:

Oh my..... what a wonderful read lets break it down!

  • Strife - This probably the best fix I've ever seen for the strife so far it makes a lot of sense on so many levels 850 damage is a wonderful number and only 2 shots i love it!
  • ISSR-B - The nerf is HARD DAMAGE not Health Damage (Hard damage is damage done to vehicles)

You're one of the first to like my Strife rework. Fancy that.

 

Last I remember reading the ISSR-B there was a ROF change, which I didn't really appreciate. I could see tapping the hard damage down to about 50 or so, but I disagree with nerfing it's range. Especially by that much. If you did that you might as well put it in the rifle category and not the sniper rifle category, but even then it'd probably be outclassed in that category anyway. Could also just leave it as I rarely see people up in arms complaining about it.

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39 minutes ago, Freewind said:

You're one of the first to like my Strife rework. Fancy that.

 

Last I remember reading the ISSR-B there was a ROF change, which I didn't really appreciate. I could see tapping the hard damage down to about 50 or so, but I disagree with nerfing it's range. Especially by that much. If you did that you might as well put it in the rifle category and not the sniper rifle category, but even then it'd probably be outclassed in that category anyway. Could also just leave it as I rarely see people up in arms complaining about it.

Good point but you have to remember the Oblivion exists with a 90m range and slower ROF. So i probably need to add that to the list and rework it also. :^l

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You guys are forgetting perc damage. At 400 damage and the fact they explode on impact they are a known crutch that people use to compensate/get easy kills. Using a perc with an NFAS is completely broken and by the time you can react your dead. Theres also the known HVR/perc combo at close range which makes the HVR viable at close range. Throw a perc and as it hits your firing your HVR essentially making an instant kill. Percs should be 200 damage so this way they cant be abused with any powerful weapons. Perc 200 + HVR 745 means your still alive (barely) and can get to some cover or return fire as you can then kill them before they can fire the HVR again. As it stands in the current NFAS setup throwing a perc makes the gun a 2 shot kill which is OP beyond reason. The changes in the document wouldnt solve the current NFAS+perc combo as by using a perc the NFAS is once again a 3 shot kill and negates the changes proposed.

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20 hours ago, PvE said:

Offer some feedback it's all open for discussion.

My only feedback rn is leave the Bullshark alone.

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8 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

You guys are forgetting perc damage. At 400 damage and the fact they explode on impact they are a known crutch that people use to compensate/get easy kills. Using a perc with an NFAS is completely broken and by the time you can react your dead. Theres also the known HVR/perc combo at close range which makes the HVR viable at close range. Throw a perc and as it hits your firing your HVR essentially making an instant kill. Percs should be 200 damage so this way they cant be abused with any powerful weapons. Perc 200 + HVR 745 means your still alive (barely) and can get to some cover or return fire as you can then kill them before they can fire the HVR again. As it stands in the current NFAS setup throwing a perc makes the gun a 2 shot kill which is OP beyond reason. The changes in the document wouldnt solve the current NFAS+perc combo as by using a perc the NFAS is once again a 3 shot kill and negates the changes proposed.

I'm fine with perc's because they are super limited in terms of usage. As for the NFAS... just delete that fucking thing.

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7 hours ago, zeals said:

As for the NFAS... just delete that fucking thing.

 

22 hours ago, Nevv said:
  • Skimming through the document, I get a slight feeling that some weapons were over-nerfed based on how overpowered or irritating they previously were. Just a reminder to use an objective mindset when dealing with such weapons.

 

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On 1/30/2020 at 1:32 PM, Nevv said:

 

  • Skimming through the document, I get a slight feeling that some weapons were over-nerfed based on how overpowered or irritating they previously were. Just a reminder to use an objective mindset when dealing with such weapons.

 

Can't be constructive without offering what weapon in specific your talking about.

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