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Maybe it's time to remove red crosshair

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3 hours ago, Parthian said:

Yeah, I love it when an SPCT is moderating a twitch chat of a dude while the guy is blatantly triggerbotting on stream. (Guy is still not banned). Definitely shows you how totally not corrupted this company is!

brain dead

a volunteer community advocate from the game is MODERATING a chat of a guy who might be hacking on a disconnected website is somehow the game directors corruption? huh?

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Posted (edited)

I'll explain why they should not, yet.

They have to do something for colorblind people first in that case (like me, being among the 8% of colorblind males) because sometimes the red crosshair is the only way to tell if it's an enemy or friendly (imagine having to place the crosshair on someone to determine that. It's a handicap in APB for sure!). I edit my shaders to eliminate certain world colors, lighting conditions etc to eliminate conditions that for red/green colorblind people (the most common type) makes the green and red nametags very hard to tell apart sometimes (like against a bright sky, red/green background etc). That's why I fear not being able to edit the world colors in 3.5 when that stuff is locked. I can't imagine a new engine was required to integrate the ability to change world/nametag colors and I've heard it mentioned once since LO took over but so did old G1 in 2013 and nothing happened that time.

 

What makes me a bit concerned is that LO mentioned colorblind mode being looked into in the live Q&A, but only mentioned being able to change crosshair colors. You need to be able to tell friendly and enemy apart directly with the nametags. They also didn't mention being able to change world colors.

Edited by SilverCrow
typo
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38 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

I'll explain why they should not, yet.

They have to do something for colorblind people first in that case (like me, being among the 8% of colorblind males) because sometimes the red crosshair is the only way to tell if it's an enemy or friendly (imagine having to place the crosshair on someone to determine that. It's a handicap in APB for sure!). I edit my shaders to eliminate certain world colors, lighting conditions etc to eliminate conditions that for red/green colorblind people (the most common type) makes the green and red nametags very hard to tell apart sometimes (like against a bright sky, red/green background etc). That's why I fear not being able to edit the world colors in 3.5 when that stuff is locked. I can't imagine a new engine was required to integrate the ability to change world/nametag colors and I've heard it mentioned once since LO took over but so did old G1 in 2013 and nothing happened that time.

 

What makes me a bit concerned is that LO mentioned colorblind mode being looked into in the live Q&A, but only mentioned being able to change crosshair colors. You need to be able to tell friendly and enemy apart directly with the nametags. They also didn't mention being able to change world colors.

im confused, arent the nametags the same color as the crosshair?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Glaciers said:

the aim (haha) is to make colorbots less easy to use, something that could be done by simply disabling ahk and autoit

Yeah I know. My point was that it probably won't make that much of a difference because someone who wants to commit to cheating, probably won't use autohotkey of all things. It might stop a few idiots but I highly doubt it will stop most actual triggerbot users, since they don't use colorbots (Or shouldn't if they have some braincells).

Edited by VanilleKeks

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Iam a bit on the edge at this issue. 

APB is special in this case.. It would defenitely solve the triggerbot problem, but in the other hand:

-small characters will get an advantage while croaching behind the boxes or any cover.

-sniping (searching for a hitbox to hit) will get much more difficult, and again - small characters will be in advantage, becouse hitbox wont be seen.

Red crosshair inditacted whether your crosshair is on the hitbox or not.

And I dont think its a good idea of removing red crosshair at this state of game even tho I d like it.

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I left click when my crosshair turns red. I also left click when I get that 🚫 icon on my screen because 50% of the time it means I will land the shot.

 

Guess that makes me a triggerbot user.

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13 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

I left click when my crosshair turns red. I also left click when I get that 🚫 icon on my screen because 50% of the time it means I will land the shot.

 

Guess that makes me a triggerbot user.

I won't argue with logic.

 

Question:

How does a macro invoke a MouseLeftClick down command ?

 

Anyways, you have provided some valuable feedback.

Thank you.

 

 

 

I am wrestling with two issues at the moment.

 

  1.  There appears to be two topics discussed in this thread.
    It gets confusing.
     
  2. Does/Can EAC detect either Autoit or AHK macros ?   (yes, even in memory)
    If yes, that would be a better solution than disabling red crosshairs.


 

Someone already mentioned that changing gameplay dynamics to combat cheaters is not usually the best option.

I tend to agree.

 

Have Triggerbots made a re-insurgence into our "extremely" small community ?

Unfortunately yes.

 

Oh well, looking forward to 2015...

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

AHK can detect when the crosshair turns red and it automatically fires.  Since most of the weapons in this game are hitscan, it's makes it easy to land shots with a simple triggerbot you can write in AHK.

 

I personally would rather see the red crosshair taken out and a few persistent options added in (persistent crosshairs always on your screen).

 

The crosshair turning red won't actually stop cheaters though, it will just stop simple scripts written in programs like AHK from working.

Edited by illgot

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1 minute ago, illgot said:

AHK can detect when the crosshair turns red and it automatically fires.  Since most of the weapons in this game are hitscan, it's makes it easy to land shots with a simple triggerbot you can write in AHK.

BE and eac both autoclose the game if you open any AHK script

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11 hours ago, SilverCrow said:

I'll explain why they should not, yet.

They have to do something for colorblind people first in that case (like me, being among the 8% of colorblind males) because sometimes the red crosshair is the only way to tell if it's an enemy or friendly

Um, what? Name plates are red.... I was pretty sure someone will come with this "reason" why it shouldn't be removed.

My bs sensors are tingling. 

(here's a random picture  from one of the shini's videos)

 

4XreVwA.png

 

 

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Terrible idea as @AxeTurboAgresor has elaborated

It's an essential part of APB's gameplay and balance. Dunno how anyone can even argue about it.

 

Also it won't remove triggerbots per se.

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12 hours ago, Glaciers said:

im confused, arent the nametags the same color as the crosshair?

Nametag  H=31 S=7 L=1

 

Crosshair H=31 S=7 L=2

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Or maybe it's not that time, after all. I obviously have no clue how those things work, but even for a layperson as I am, the idea of removing one of the game's core mechanics instead of finding an alternative way to deal with the issue sounds like utter nonsense. What the next step would be, adding dynamic hitboxes?

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Posted (edited)

just make it delayed. give it like 100ms to turn red and poof, color triggerbot advantage gone.

while normal players can still use it to determine whether or not whoever they are looking at is an enemy or not - which is an issue with the heavy customization apb has. cs and the likes have unambiguous playermodels, we dont. nametags dont always show up (getting blocked by objects, e.g. when shooting under cars)

Edited by neophobia
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Bambola said:

Or maybe it's not that time, after all. I obviously have no clue how those things work, but even for a layperson as I am, the idea of removing one of the game's core mechanics instead of finding an alternative way to deal with the issue sounds like utter nonsense. What the next step would be, adding dynamic hitboxes?

the only issue I see with removing the colour change in the cursor is knowing when you are over the target model and not the rendered model.  Because players can change their rendered model size, you need a queue to tell you when you can actually shoot.

 

Smaller models may not actually be seen behind cover but you can still shoot them because their taller target model is still the standard size.  Larger models maybe not be shot even though you have the target cursor over them because their smaller target model is still the standard size.

Edited by illgot
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It surely would be weird to play without the red crosshair at first but in the end I don't think we even need it for anything.
Can't agree on removing the red name though. How else would you be able to distinguish your enemies from people who are out of the mission ?

Would be cool though if there was some alternative way of indicating that the player is an enemy without giving the scripts anything to latch onto.

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14 hours ago, Glaciers said:

im confused, arent the nametags the same color as the crosshair?

The crosshair very much less in color nuance than the nametags.

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1 hour ago, illgot said:

~snip~

Thanks for the explanation.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sayori said:

Um, what? Name plates are red.... I was pretty sure someone will come with this "reason" why it shouldn't be removed.

My bs sensors are tingling. 

(here's a random picture  from one of the shini's videos)

 

4XreVwA.png

 

 

 

I can't believe you're going to make me defend my statement as a colorblind person simply telling you my problem.

 

I didn't say it shouldn't be removed. Did I? I said: not yet (until they do something for colorblind people).

Don't you think I know the nametags are red?

Problem is the red and green nametags can look very similar to a colorblind person because they are affected by the background (world) colors and lighting, for instance against a red or green background, or against a very bright sky, like I said in my post. The crosshair colors are affected much less by those things, so the red and green crosshair are easy to tell apart, at least for my type of colorblindness. With red/green color blindness the red and green cones in the eye are too close together so there's trouble seperating the two colors. My twin brother has the exact same issue with APB and 8% of all males are colorblind.

Why do you think all games that has colorblind settings have different colors than red and green on the nametags and crosshair?

I can't believe you just accused me of talking bs actually.

 

 

 

 

Edited by SilverCrow
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1 minute ago, SilverCrow said:

 

I can't believe you're going to make me defend my statement as a colorblind person simply telling you my problem.

 

I didn't say it shouldn't be removed. Did I? I said: not yet (until they do something for colorblind people).

Don't you think I know the nametags are red?

Problem is the red and green nametags can look very similar to a colorblind person. because they are affected by the background (world) colors and lighting, for instance against a red or green background, or against a very bright sky, like I said in my post. The crosshair colors are affected much less by those things, so the red and green crosshair are easy to tell apart, at least for my type of colorblindness. With red/green color blindness the red and green cones in the eye are too close together so there's trouble seperating the two colors. My twin brother has the exact same issue with APB and 8% of all males are colorblind.

Why do you think all games that has colorblind settings have different colors than red and green on the nametags and crosshair?

I can't believe you just accused me of talking bs actually.

 

 

 

 

Wait, so you can tell the difference between a red and green crosshair but not a red and green name of the same hues and levels of transparencies, even though the crosshair is much much smaller?

 

In any case, color blind options should be a part of 3.5 as Matt has mentioned. So hopefully you won't have this problem for too much longer. 

 

 

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if you remove the crosshair it makes things worse.

 

First, it grants advantages for characters with lesser visuals (small females, as nude as possible), because they will have HUGE advantages behind cover due to the one trying to shoot them, not being able to know anymore if a shot can hit or not, compared to a big male that clearly shows body parts. So removing the red crosshair causes more imbalance between legit players. until everyone plays the same nude female small character.

 

Further everyone with cheats that show hitboxes gets an even bigger advantage because they have their omnipresent indicator while now the legit players do not have the ret dot as indicator anymore.

 

And so I doubt this truly solves more problems than it causes, and in the end some or even many of those who use triggerbots will just swap to other "enhancements".

 

17 hours ago, VanilleKeks said:

Considering that a lot of other shooters don't have it, I don't think it will have a large downside. I doubt it will make much of an impact though because I'm pretty sure that the decent cheats have triggerbots which don't rely on the color change.

 

because other shooters make hitboxes model dependent, which is for fairness reasons different in APB.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Wait, so you can tell the difference between a red and green crosshair but not a red and green name of the same hues and levels of transparencies, even though the crosshair is much much smaller?

 

In any case, color blind options should be a part of 3.5 as Matt has mentioned. So hopefully you won't have this problem for too much longer. 

 

 

 

Look at a red nametag against a very bright sky. Compare it to against a dark background. There is clear difference. Against the dark background the red is a more clear red (to me at least), against the bright sky it's a much brighter color, to my colorblind eyes that nuance is harder to tell apart from green.

Now do the same for the red crosshair: not as much difference. Crosshair doesn't differ as much in nuance.

 

EDIT: part of my shader config makes the sky much less bright by dampening the white spectrum.

Edited by SilverCrow

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29 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

 

Look at a red nametag against a very bright sky. Compare it to against a dark background. There is clear difference. Against the dark background the red is a more clear red (to me at least), against the bright sky it's a much brighter color, to my colorblind eyes that nuance is harder to tell apart from green.

Now do the same for the red crosshair: not as much difference. Crosshair doesn't differ as much in nuance.

 

EDIT: part of my shader config makes the sky much less bright by dampening the white spectrum.

Interesting.

Color blind mode cant come soon enough.

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