Noob_Guardian

I disagree, but I do feel like they are in a situation where they want it balanced, but still want it "useful", and don't know the proper approach for it. They did however ask the community for their thoughts on it, so I hope they listen and don't go with HS

I don't think he knows about the inner workings is all, but the suggestion isn't a bad one. ============================================================ You would be forced to reduce the normal health damage to even think of making a mod that makes lethal guns ltl. Most guns also cannot stun, they have also to have a special modifier which lets them stun. Hence why DMR and nano can stun, but almost every other sniper and gun can't, they don't actually have the ability to. A mod "might" be able to change that though. If you have too much life damage, then you can't stun because they die, and HP and Stamina damage are two separate modifiers. You'd ofc would also have to somehow increase and inflate a weapons stamina damage, and give it the modifier which lets it stun, to allow for stunning while simultaneously decreasing the hp damage and likely the hard damage to balance it properly.

I agree and had suggested something similar as well, but i think they want to avoid IR completely. Probably because the mod couldn't be re-balanced (let alone with any mass agreement on the change)

This actually had been suggested at one point as something they were looking into, either by the old team just before LO or by LO. I can't remember, however the discussion on it kinda ended and nothing came of it. They were looking at more ltl weapons, or making it a mod. I almost want to think @MattScott had mentioned something about it a long time ago though. He or another dev can clarify if i'm wrong I guess. As for the mod stats, in general you'd want to reduce normal damage by roughly 50-85% (2-4x the ttk which would still be about a 4 second kill, similar to other ltl weapons... i think?) and increase the stamina damage by let's say... 80-160% depending on the gun (as speculation, i dont know actual stamina damage stats). They could make several mod classes for it. "shotgun, smg, rifle, and sniper" which would make balancing for the fact much easier. If a certain class has low stamina damage, that classes stamina boost would be increased much more than other class mods. Some weapons like the DMR might need a touchup to make it ~3-4 hits to stun or simply to allow it to stun, but I can't see it being a bad change for balance. However, a rework of the LTL and stamina damage system wouldn't be too bad, it's been talked about a number of times already, but nothing has happened on the undertaking.

you agree to such changes happening in to TOS. people have suggested replacing it with a tagger type mod instead of HS to prevent ruining the hipfire. Hopefully LO listens.

I've seen percs, low yields, and more concs i'm not worried about percs though. People have been using JG for a while now. It's in a decent state but cornerpopping is what makes it strong. I'd rather face percs than spammed by low yields, maybe flack will make a comeback? lel FC used to be oca heavy? It's always had a large mix of shotguns and OCA's. People recently used a ton of shotguns due to recent buffs to shotguns, OCA is still powerful and never needed the buffed. Considering NTEC 5 is similar to the pre-nerf ntec and is fairly managable, its no surprise. People will stick to whatever can get them the best range and capabilities without having to change weapons. New glory people won't flock to. CSG was the go to before it got nerfed and you started to see a mix of JG and CSG. NFAS is broken as hell but we'll see what happens once that's fixed. Also the newest shotgun changes may be making jg and csg 3 hit ko's due to corner popping. So that'll be interesting if true but i can imagine all the people complaining because they can't 2 hit without getting hit so much.

I actually don't worry about cqc weapons while running ntec, unless i'm going to be running face first into an nfas or corner popping shotgun sub 5m that I havn't prenaded. But I also tend to play in a manner that directly benefits the weapon I use, sooooooo. (and nfas has a lower ttk, and corner popping directly prevents most damage from being done against the shotgun being done) Counter? Lol OCA doesn't really counter NTEC, no NTEC is directly hard countered by an OCA. Using an OCA does level the field against an oscar because ease and strafing capabilities along with lower ttk. Is it fairly effective against ntec at like 10-15m well duh, but the ntec does almost just as well regardless of the oca's existance. NFAS is restricted to like sub 7m to "counter" NTEC, which makes it really sub-par in most engagements against the NTEC for the other like 40-47m of the NTEC's range, and the nfas is only useful against oscar in the same "range" so its not great. SHAW makes you a literal sitting duck, and easily taken out, its useful against the oscar but I wouldn't say its very great because a good oscar can easily manage corners enough to not worry about a shaw much. S1NA is the better option, but that's also because it has a faster ttk, similar range as the oca, and good accuracy.

I didn't say obeya was useless. It's pretty good for a midrange gun, but weaker in cqc engagements than the ntec, and better at far longer ranges than ntec. It however also has a higher base ttk than the ntec, and far less ammo than the ntec as well. Overall obeya is better for mid-long range engagements than the ntec, but ntec is better in cqc-mid generally. (because that's their niches :X) Oscar is easier to out ttk. It has a higher TTK and missing punishes it more. Sure, you have to put up with it's movement speed jank, which is annoying, but it's also manageable just use a spray weapon .

i'll have to browse the store for suggestions, brb. hehe Merged. Far - strong, similar to STAR NSSW - Similar to pre-"1st nerf" ntec Rabid not bad for an lmg .45 is solid pistol s1na- strong marksman mode cqc weapon harder to use out of mm, so using it is kinda a must frog - cqc .45 with lower (10-15m) range vs ~45m but 10 rounds rather than 7., same ttk as .45 AMG - if you like a mobile shaw that you can sprint with... CR-5 if you want an ntec.

Going to need updated with the new weapon updates added to the joker store

ATAC is good for a cqc AR, I forget the watchman's mods though, but I generally steer clear of CJ on atac. Nano is a solid choice generally if you'd rather something easier than the FBW but filling a similar niche. Volcano works if you don't have explosives unlocked, though I prefer the osmaw. Reaper is alright if you like scout snipers. Ursus is good if you want an alternate ntec. Strife is a strong shotgun, but suffers against other cqc weapons. It can get extremely hard to use when other players switch to cqc weapons to counter. TDLR: If you want a decent secondary, nano is good if you aren't buying a .45 or fr0g. If you'd rather an AR I'd probably go ursus unless you prefer something that feels more easy to use then ATAC.

I'm no design master so I wouldn't know how to go about that. hehe

Probably not. Considering the game is "mostly" in a balanced state with only a handful of really underpowered weapons, and an even smaller number of overtuned weapons. Yes oscar is annoying, but it's not overpowered and it's easier to out ttk. You do realize that simply because a weapon is a starting weapon, doesn't mean that it should automatically suck and be worse than the only other f2p assault rifle in game? No amount of buffs will make the star perform as well as the ntec unless they gave it the exact same bloom recovery speed as the NTEC and made it an NTEC 2.0. That's what they were avoiding and why they buffed the star to have the same recovery as the FAR which had a better one than the STAR but not as good as the NTEC. (And yes, you can nerf a weapon several times and rework it until you feel that it's in a good state.) It's so much easier that ex-ntec players scamper towards the obeya like its gold. Obeya has the same principals as the NTEC with tapfiring. The only difference is you can fire faster with the ntec, which is why its punished more for failing to do right, but it's more cqc hence its faster ttk. Plus the obeya has more range so has to be more accurate. They fill a somewhat niche in mid range, until you get far range where the obeya clearly wins with it's htk and ttk, and it's ttk becomes similar to that of an HVR (8-9htk = ~1.5s). The TTK of the obeya helps prevent it from competing too effectively in cqc, unlike the ntec. Merged. 35m? Uh, AR's have 50m range, or did they finally drop it to 45m like it had been mentioned? Making the NTEC to be 40m after change? Or are you just making 35m up

Not everyone will go carbine tho? The only people who would go carbine are the same people who use carbine and ntec often to begin with. The extremely competitive type "i must win people" will always move on to some other weapon that they deem ez for winning. IF that's the case that's fine, however not everyone is going to go carbine. Sure lets compare the NTEC to the star shall we? Better bloom recovery, better mid-range capabilities, better ttk, and better damage. Worse but easily managable recoil, and worse bloom full auto, but noone pays attention to that anyways when you can spray from a corner sub 7m. Overall far better than the star, its only other f2p competitor, which HAS been buffed already to try to compete better against it, but still falls short due to ttk, and bloom recovery. Obeya has a higher ttk than ntec, its meant for longer ranges then ntec, and competes somwhat decently against ntec sub 50m. However, most people leveling the semi auto role, will use carbine unless they are playing waterfront and want to play those longer ranges. Obeya is rarely used in financial for a reason and obir is even more rarely used in financial. You'll see both used in waterfront, but you'll see NTEC used in all districts because it's simply better and easier to use and fits the maps easier. Not an issue there but when you look at the only other gun being deemed, litteraly unusable because of the state of the ntec, and the closest somewhat "f2p" FAR which has the same recovery, but better accuracy than the star, is still not used. We all also know that if the FAR or STAR were nearly as strong or good as the ntec, all the cash cows, would have bought it and be using it. Like they did the C9 and ATAC. The event was alright, but it was horribly managed and the top tier of rewards was near impossible if you had any semblance of a life. I can't say gold lock was good at all, not after losing half the games population in a mere 3 months from it.

Eh, i wasn't looking at the spelling. And saying that maybe not tap firing so fast would fix the issue is a legitimate fix so... /shrug It was underrated to a degree, however it still wasn't as easy to use as the other weapons in it's niche, hence why noone really used it. I mean, depending on what instances you mean about the self sabotage yes, however content wise, it has lacked as well.

sadly, no mods will do that. The gun gets better the more you fire it, and that's also what makes it awkward, because its bad at the start, when you reaaally need it to be good. It's not a bad thing that it gets better over time at all, but tap and burst firing it to make it useful, is rough. I do best when just full auto sub 15m at times.

not at all, Manic imo is much much better and more reliable than the Frenzy. I prefer the Manic over the oca unless i don't want to play MM 24/7. Frenzy is fun but awkward.

I honestly can't see it. The gun itself is far more unreliable than the nerfed NTEC version.

I can agree to this, the default sensitivity is absolutely appalling. No wonder new players have such a hard time playing off the bat, they can't hit anything. I can't tell you how many new players i've told to change sensativity and it help them because they lowered it. Star got buffed after the far came out, so that they function similarly. Which imo is great, but we all know despite both being great guns (imo), they are overshadowed by more accurate and powerful ones.

The "gimmick" isnt an issue if you properly tap fire. But if you can't it punishes you. Might I suggest learning to fire correctly? I have no intention of making the STAR be spotlighted. I simply feel that nerfing the NTEC will bring a better balance overall and allow other weapons to be used. Not everything could be used effectively, it wasn't viable, and a number of the weapons weren't capable competitively, lets be honest here. Star was a joke before it got buffed to "useful but not as good as ntec", PMG was a joke before it got buffed, JG was always a worse CSG, still usable but not nearly as good, and DMR was a meme gun (Still is but it's buff made it used more) NTEC has always been a very strong, versatile weapon that people have consistently used over most other mid-range weapons due to how powerful it is. Hence it's nerf. You can't have a gun that causes every other weapon in the weapon role, to not be used, or be considered "inferior" because of its existence. That is NOT balanced. Yes, "not everyone who uses ntec's are good with it" but most time's they're still better off than using any other assault rifle or midrange weapon. APB isn't dead because of a few weapon nerfs. It's dead because the companies didn't add content, implemented horrible game designs (gold lock), and left glitches and exploits rampant without fixing them for months to years (car ram wall glitch, medium movement exploit, broken areas you can't get into normally being exploited). Gladly they at least fixed a handful of broken areas and glitches, it's a shame that many still exist and that many needed changes, came far too late.

Nah, i enjoy using it, but it's too ineffective with that last shot, and timing bursts for 7 shots is awkward, You can't simply 2 burst or 3 burst easily with it like other AR's you gotta 3-4 burst it with different intervals. Plus the recoil can make it rough to manage even tapfiring, so it always ends up with a higher ttk than a number of other AR's at longer ranges. But can do CQC pretty decent.

The problem however, is that it would be inefficient to just "buff" all the less used weapons. It's far easier to nerf a few problem weapons, and buff the remaining weaker ones after, than it is to buff the weaker ones to compete, then have tons of people crying "OP OP OP" on all the buffed guns because they are suddenly useful against say the ntec and potentially TOO good. It might make sense to buff every rifle to the NTEC's power, but it really does NOT, when you realize that to do that, the buffed weapons will actually have to function like the ntec with similar accuracy, bloom recovery, and versatility ending up with quite litterally "a bunch of guns which are very similar to the ntec". LO are looking at making the shotguns 3 hit ko's, to get them off corners by giving more time outside of the corner to kill. Not a bad idea, but we'll have to see how it is in practice. The playerbase has been hemoragging for a long time due to weapon balance, map design, mission design, and trashy vets who can't even take it easy playing newbies along with no new updates forever. I highly doubt that a large group of people will leave simply because a badly designed weapon that reigned for 7 years finally gets a hammer to it.

You do realized that the random burst bloom is a side effect of incorrectly firing at a consistent rate right and firing too fast, outside of the bloom modifier's recovery causing it to bloom? They did bork the HVR though, sadly there is no effective 3ps3 nerf so they decided to burn the gun instead.

i think that has to do more with limitations in the ingame designer than anything. I wonder if they might be able to bypass it that issue by making it as an actual "shirt skin"(like rather than a design from the studio, make the shirt as an image and a code links it so that an image of what's supposed to be on it appears on it for that particular item) Sort of like minecraft skins. The normal clothing editor has a TON of limitations like this. The other issue is that this doesn't appear like it is "wrapped" around the chest like you would normally see done for designs... I wonder if they accidentally forgot to wrap it and just placed it on, or if due to the size, "wrapping" it would make it look all wrong and ended up with that issue.

I've used and seen it used pretty well, however its only in waterfront. Financial is too cqc, so the bullshark tends to do better.