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Cheating

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2 minutes ago, Similarities said:

EDIT: Please make it easier to merge posts btw, it's incredibly unfriendly toward users currently.

Why not just multiquote or edit the first post?

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Dear LO, just joining the newt Christmas event (wish does seem like fun, thanks) there are now people in a hurry after the downtime and playing unfair. Instantly getting shot and snowballed instantly from half-way across the district with GG EZ's to follow.

 

I wasn't the only one (f)facepalming. Made a screenshot of the chat at the time and posted it in the event topic:

6982-apb-holiday-events-2018-updated

 

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On 12/19/2018 at 5:41 AM, MattScott said:

You've asked a great, very honest question.

I'm sure it's natural for a player to see something happening in-game and wonder "Why aren't they doing something about this?"

 

I don't want this next bit to sound defensive. I'll be the first one to admit that Little Orbit is just not very good at this yet.

You've had applicants for the volunteer GM positions, applicants who are part of an organisation who deals with cheaters on a daily basis. These applicants GM on multiple games, hired by multiple known game publishers and developers. Those applicants where promised a 'yes hired/no thanks' email. Those applicants are still waiting. Those applicants are known for monitoring on a daily basis. These applicants work for free and sometimes ingame items (depends on the contract).

 

In short, you're missing out Matt. These applicants could have started GM'ing for you a long time ago.

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Good luck. I'm sure things can be better but yeah this isn't a downhill thing.

 

🖖

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A few people have been (toggle) cheating in the Christmas event districts for days now, when a GM joins they stop, when the GM leaves they shout about the GM leaving and they go on again. Reporting them doesn't seem to have done anything perceivable by players. The best option is just to ignore them. It is just a complete joke.

 

ggez

-

have it one video btw

nobody cares btw

battleye btw

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1 hour ago, Jazeker said:

A few people have been (toggle) cheating in the Christmas event districts for days now, when a GM joins they stop, when the GM leaves they shout about the GM leaving and they go on again. 

active gm = sovled ??? 🤔🤔🤔🤔

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Solution: GMs should announce their schedule on the districts so the cheaters and the non-cheaters know where to go and what to avoid. 😂

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From a purely technical point of view I would expect FairFight to be the best suited anti-cheat for APB (or most games, for that matter), simply because it's server-sided and as far as I am aware the servers already check for a bunch of things (e.g. accuracy and weapon damage).

I would also expect a server-side, statistics based anti-cheat to be much more difficult to be circumvent compared to client-side anti-cheats.

And concerning privacy and data-security I'd much prefer a game not to pollute my system with software that rummages through my files and inspects processes at will.

 

Anyway, I can see why FairFight did not work as expected in APB, given that several missions essentially provide players with wallhacks and certain bugs also made player names visible through some objects. However I'd consider changing these missions for the sake of improving gameplay (I don't think wallhack-deathmatch is a lot of fun), as well as giving FairFight the ability to better monitor players.

 

And of course MrEpicGoat showed that APB is mechanically very exploitable, which hopefully gets fixed with the engine upgrade. Even that out of the way, client-side anti-cheats are probably still bypassed with a bit of effort.

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On 12/18/2018 at 8:41 PM, MattScott said:

In April, Little Orbit had never run an MMO or online multiplayer game.

This month, if I were self evaluating Little Orbit, I'd say we are now mediocre at operating the game.

I do feel like we've learned a hell of a lot, and we're getting better at it.

In that short time from May until now , Little Orbit has been more open and done more for APB while trying harder than anyone before you.

That is precisely why I have hope and faith in whatever happens under Little Orbits care.

Thank you and Merry Christmas.

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The big problem with NOT having any server side anti cheat going for statistics in terms of  for instance accuracy (some things are simply impossible no matter what) is that once the client side anti cheat is bypassed there is no system detecting the impossible actions they do. To at that point instead rely on player reports to manually ban such players can be impossible if that player is avoiding to look like a cheater, especially seeing how extremely large the skill gap is in APB. With something detecting impossible actions server side, it means that just because someone is through the client side anti cheat security, they are not safe at all, as opposed to if there is no server side stats checking and these people can toggle fairly hard and blend in with the actually very skilled players.

Edited by SilverCrow
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@SilverCrow,

Good to see you back...

 

I miss (the now defunk) unofficial apb blog.

Always a good read.

 

EDIT:

Do "toggler's" & "closets" still exist ?

 

Haha... yes, and some are most obvious.

 

Oh well.

Edited by Westford
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4 hours ago, Westford said:

@SilverCrow,

Good to see you back...

 

I miss (the now defunk) unofficial apb blog.

Always a good read.

 

EDIT:

Do "toggler's" & "closets" still exist ?

 

Haha... yes, and some are most obvious.

 

Oh well.

@Westford

I don't, actually, but thank you anyway 🙂  

 

 

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So you will not automatically ban cheaters permanently, and won't ever manually ban cheaters permanently either since you only mention two possibilities, extending or removing an exisiting ban.

 

Are there any circumstances in which you will permanently ban those caught cheating?

 

On 12/18/2018 at 7:28 AM, MattScott said:

7) How do we handle cheaters when we detect them?

Based on APB's history, I didn't feel we could permanently auto-ban cheaters based on any of the systems mentioned above.

We do temp ban for a window long enough that my staff can review the data and then decide whether to extend the ban or remove it.

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1 hour ago, Rade said:

So you will not automatically ban cheaters permanently, and won't ever manually ban cheaters permanently either since you only mention two possibilities, extending or removing an exisiting ban.

 

Are there any circumstances in which you will permanently ban those caught cheating?

 

 

On 6/24/2018 at 9:41 PM, MattScott said:

 

[text]

 

We are banning for hacking and cheating.

 

[text]

 

  • We have three different systems that can ban a player. These are *mostly* escalating temp bans that get longer and longer the more you get flagged.

 

Here is the important part that makes sure we achieve all three goals I outlined above:

 

My CS staff gets real time reports on the temp bans. We use that initial period to review each case and determine if we want to make it a permanent ban. 

 

[text]

 

Thanks,
Matt

 

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@BXNNXD What takes precedence, the quote dated 6 months ago or the recent one? In any event this indicates there has been a change in policy or perhaps Matt needs to clarify his position regarding permanent banning.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Rade said:

@BXNNXD What takes precedence, the quote dated 6 months ago or the recent one? In any event this indicates there has been a change in policy or perhaps Matt needs to clarify his position regarding permanent banning.

The thing is, you can extend a ban to be permanent (or the equivalent of that).

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1 hour ago, Rade said:

@BXNNXD What takes precedence, the quote dated 6 months ago or the recent one? In any event this indicates there has been a change in policy or perhaps Matt needs to clarify his position regarding permanent banning.

 

 

the quote outlines the exact same system mattscott talks about in this thread, there is no change in policy whatsoever 

 

auto bans aren’t permanent, but temp bans are - if anything this is a better system because it seems to indicate that all bans are reviewed at least twice 

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No disrespect Kevkof and BXNNXD but I'm after solid answers from Matt himself.  6 months ago it was indicated bans "may" be permanent, and now it seems the notion of a permanent ban is non existent.

 

I want clarification on the ban policy. Will permanent bans be issued, and under what circumstances. 1st time temp, 2nd time temp, 3rd time perm. How long are the ban periods.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Rade said:

No disrespect Kevkof and BXNNXD but I'm after solid answers from Matt himself.  6 months ago it was indicated bans "may" be permanent, and now it seems the notion of a permanent ban is non existent.

 

I want clarification on the ban policy. Will permanent bans be issued, and under what circumstances. 1st time temp, 2nd time temp, 3rd time perm. How long are the ban periods.

 

 

there has been no indication of permanent bans not existing, just that they will not be automatically issued without a manual review 

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1 hour ago, Rade said:

No disrespect Kevkof and BXNNXD but I'm after solid answers from Matt himself.  6 months ago it was indicated bans "may" be permanent, and now it seems the notion of a permanent ban is non existent.

 

I want clarification on the ban policy. Will permanent bans be issued, and under what circumstances. 1st time temp, 2nd time temp, 3rd time perm. How long are the ban periods.

 

 

The only time we were given stats, Matt stated that at that time 100% of temp bans were, after review, made permanent.

After the fiasco that was the Fairfight era, Im glad Matt isn't solely relying on machines to finalize bans. 

 

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Part of cheating is also jump dashing with the objectives and jump opening doors. Each one goes against a gameplay mechanic and for yrs has been accepted and encouraged by the community. These 2 things should be patched up to prevent further bug abusing.

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