Community poll: Is crouchspamming a problem? Should it be fixed?

[CommandantSteele]

I'm curious as to the community opinion on the subject, as I am personally quite annoyed with the mechanic.

 

If you aren't sure, here is my personal definition of crouchspamming: Crouching and standing up rapidly behind some sort of cover, typically while using a sniper rifle, to attempt to abuse hitbox lag or to render yourself nearly impossible to hit otherwise.

 

This is a bit of a headache mechanic. As it stands crouchspamming might be seen as a "skill" like jumpshotting. Though this "skill" is technically the abuse of a bug or an unintended mechanic and often provides users of this mechanic with an unfair advantage over those who do not use/abuse it. Adding onto the annoyances of this "tactic" is that APB has no cooldown on crouching nor is your bloom affected by crouching, so a precision weapon like sniper rifles and rifles will find themselves extremely powerful using this mechanic. In addition, there is virtually no indication that the person using this "tactic" is about to stand up or crouch, so unless you are extremely skilled in instant pattern recognition and can sync your shots to the person crouching up and down (Which, while possible, is probably not easy) you will find the person in question essentially impossible to hit even if you were both using the same type of weapon.

 

So, what should we do? I'd personally propose making crouching/uncrouching cause your aim to bloom for a moment so that, while possible to pop out and shoot, you need to commit to standing for a moment to actually shoot with full accuracy. I wouldn't have it be very long, just for a second or two. That's more than enough for anyone engaged in a serious sniper duel to be able to retaliate.

 

I'd also be interested in hearing community solutions to this problem, or "problem" depending on your opinion.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Freewind
Stray comma.

[Poperon]

I thought you were talking about another kind of crouchspamming: Tea Bag.

 

Tea Baggery is totally cool, you know...

Edited May 31, 2018 by Poperon

[MoeEveryWeek]

I do not think of it is a problem as people would do this in real life like in paintball, not in a tea bagging sense but obviously to peak over a wall to get a view of the field, but a suggestion would be that obviously you cannot crouch continuously that it would tire the character out rendering them unable to sprint for a few seconds as they catch their breath. Just like getting shot by an LTL weapon to the point of nearly being stunned, the player would not be able to sprint for a short period of time.

 

And it is not an unfair advantage as this is simply a skill anyone can do it is just whether they perform it well or not. Like when a projectile comes flying at you, an immediate response would be to jump out of the way or shrink/curl up small enough to make the projectile miss. In this game, in this everyone know about it, it's just whether they use it or not.

Edited May 31, 2018 by MoeEveryWeek

[vsb]

16 minutes ago, Freewind said:

 

So, what should we do? I'd personally propose making crouching/uncrouching cause your aim to bloom for a moment so that, while possible to pop out and shoot, you need to commit to standing for a moment to actually shoot with full accuracy. I wouldn't have it be very long, just for a second or two. That's more than enough for anyone engaged in a serious sniper duel to be able to retaliate.

 

honestly im not opposed to this, id make weapons have the same effects when uncrouching that they do when corner popping just for consistency's sake

 

but if this never happens i probably wouldnt be heartbroken

[Voerman]

16 minutes ago, Freewind said:

I'd personally propose making crouching/uncrouching cause your aim to bloom

That would utterly destroy any and all gunplay the game has.

[Zascha]

Seriously? Is that really where we are, now?

 

"NERF CROUCHING!"

 

"CROUCHING IS OP! NEEDS A COOL DOWN!"

 

Literally take a step back, and just read what you're on about.

 

... Man...

Edited May 31, 2018 by Zascha

[CommandantSteele]

4 hours ago, Voerman said:

That would utterly destroy any and all gunplay the game has.

 

I can see where the concern lies, but I'm not talking anything serious. It'd be a special kind of bloom that's separate from the recoil bloom mechanics. All that would happen is that if you immediately shot it wouldn't be accurate. You'd only have to wait a second/half second to get full accuracy back. You could even make it apply exclusively to snipers, though that would be a bit unfair.

 

4 hours ago, Zascha said:

Seriously? Is that really where we are, now?

 

"NERF CROUCHING!"

 

"CROUCHING IS OP! NEEDS A COOL DOWN!"

 

Literally take a step back, and just read what you're on about.

 

This isn't a crouching problem. It's a lag problem.

 

... Man...

I am aware that it seems absurd to someone who doesn't seem to have encountered this behavior. However, much like the threads popping up about nerfing the HVR: The more you see it, the more annoying it is.

[MoeEveryWeek]

1 minute ago, Freewind said:

 

It'd be a special kind of bloom that's separate from the recoil bloom mechanics.

So you want a flower to suddenly appear on our screen everytime we uncrouch?

[LUST]

I honestly never thought this was even a issue even after facing it for almost 7+ years at this point?

The level of annoyance is no different than running into a camper around a corner. At the end of the day, you learn to avoid those situations and rework your strategy (take a different approach to beat it).

[Zascha]

3 minutes ago, Freewind said:

I am aware that it seems absurd to someone who doesn't seem to have encountered this behavior. However, much like the threads popping up about nerfing the HVR: The more you see it, the more annoying it is.

So, because it's annoying to you--you want to install a special Crouch Endurance timer into the game?

 

Man, look. That is like shooting a nuclear missile to deal with a bank robbery.

 

Crouching doesn't "need to be looked at" or "nerfed" or whatever this crazy nonsense is.

 

This is a lag problem and an exploit used to create the problem. Fix the exploit--don't hide it behind some over-designed mechanic as ridiculous as "Crouch Endurance" or some special Recoil for Crouching.

[Voerman]

11 minutes ago, Freewind said:

 

I can see where the concern lies, but I'm not talking anything serious. It'd be a special kind of bloom that's separate from the recoil bloom mechanics. All that would happen is that if you immediately shot it wouldn't be accurate. You'd only have to wait a second/half second to get full accuracy back. You could even make it apply exclusively to snipers, though that would be a bit unfair.

I don't think you understand how extensive a small change like that would be. It would make the weaker guns weaker, since you now have less mobility with them to dip and dodge and hope for the best while barely scratching the better guns since guns like the N-Tec don't even care if you're jumping around a corner with decent accuracy in CQC. You fix the hitbox/hit reg issue rather than add some weird mechanic that'd change the fundamentals of the gunplay.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Voerman

[CommandantSteele]

7 minutes ago, Zascha said:

So, because it's annoying to you--you want to install a special Crouch Endurance timer into the game?

 

Man, look. That is like shooting a nuclear missile to deal with a bank robbery.

 

Crouching doesn't "need to be looked at" or "nerfed" or whatever this crazy nonsense is.

 

This is a lag problem and an exploit used to create the problem. Fix the exploit--don't hide it behind some over-designed mechanic as ridiculous as "Crouch Endurance" or some special Recoil for Crouching.

I suppose. There is also the potential that I could blame this problem on not having larger teams in missions. Most often when I have encountered this situation is when it's a 1v1 scenario even with the possiblity of other teammates being on hand but on on scene. The last encounter I had with this was on Waterfront around the cafe where I believe Michael Simeone hangs around? It was a 3 zone capture and the two were camped up in the cafe with an OBIR and a FFA and made use of this tactic. Not sure if it was R&D3 or bullshark. I had a teammate, but they left and the mission was already lost so I got to sit around and wait to actually lose because I didn't want to pull people into an already lost situation. I do suppose that this does enhance the annoyance factor of such a mechanic.

 

4 minutes ago, Voerman said:

I don't think you understand how extensive a small change like that would be. It would make the weaker guns weaker, since you now have less mobility with them to dip and dodge and hope for the best while barely scratching the better guns since guns like the N-Tec don't even care if you're jumping around a corner with nigh lazer accuracy. You fix the hitbox/hit reg issue rather than add some weird mechanic that'd change the fundamentals of the gunplay.

You're probably right. It is difficult to see the overall large impact on simple things without them being tested. Perhaps this mechanic being annoying is a symptom of an overall larger problem with APB?

Edited May 31, 2018 by Freewind

[MoeEveryWeek]

How about we just don't give the characters legs and just put them into pots?
 

Edited May 31, 2018 by MoeEveryWeek

[Voerman]

1 minute ago, MoeEveryWeek said:

How about we just don't give the characters legs and just put them into pots?
 

All Pots Bulletin

[TheOppositePolarBear]

26 minutes ago, Zascha said:

So, because it's annoying to you--you want to install a special Crouch Endurance timer into the game?

 

Man, look. That is like shooting a nuclear missile to deal with a bank robbery.

 

Crouching doesn't "need to be looked at" or "nerfed" or whatever this crazy nonsense is.

 

This is a lag problem and an exploit used to create the problem. Fix the exploit--don't hide it behind some over-designed mechanic as ridiculous as "Crouch Endurance" or some special Recoil for Crouching.

 

you're answering to the OP

 

the OP was not the one suggesting the crouch endurance timer

 

OP was the one suggesting to bloom akin to peeking a corner when standing up (wich, for the record, i like the idea).

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------o---------------------------------------------------------------------

now, for everyone: i think OP wants to solve this thing: a NHVR aiming sight, standing up, shooting and crouching back again in less than half a second, taking away 85HP without allowing you to retaliate at all.

 

i like OP's idea, i dont really think it would affect that much any other gun (assault rifles and semi-auto rifles will feel sightly diferent, but those are all about bloom recovery anyways. SMGs,shotguns and carabines operates always at full movement bloom unless there is someone out there aiming down sights and semi-autoing a OCA... probably a bronze. i guess the only 2 weapons that would really be nerf'd by the change are the NHVR and (comically) the alig.

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by TheOppositePolarBear

[CommandantSteele]

5 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

 

now, for everyone: i think OP wants to solve this thing: a NHVR aiming sight, standing up, shooting and crouching back again in less than half a second, taking away 85HP without allowing you to retaliate at all.

 

The HVR seems to be the most common abuser of this tactic, yes. Primarily for this reason.

[Similarities]

I believe that crouch spamming on its own is fine, but for N-HVR users, every animation should take slightly longer, but believe it or not, I'm not a game designer, so I'm not going to pretend I know how it'll change the rest of the game as a result.

[Puffdragon]

4 minutes ago, Similarities said:

I believe that crouch spamming on its own is fine, but for N-HVR users, every animation should take slightly longer, but believe it or not, I'm not a game designer, so I'm not going to pretend I know how it'll change the rest of the game as a result.

I'm not a plumber, but I know poop tastes bad.

[vsb]

Just now, Puffdragon said:

I'm not a plumber, but I know poop tastes bad.

plumbers are not experts on poop, someone has mislead you

[CommandantSteele]

7 minutes ago, Similarities said:

I believe that crouch spamming on its own is fine, but for N-HVR users, every animation should take slightly longer, but believe it or not, I'm not a game designer, so I'm not going to pretend I know how it'll change the rest of the game as a result.

I don't know if this is meant to be "You're not a game dev shut up" but I have actually taken a class on game design (Believe it or not.)

 

Not a very deep one and certainly not on APB specifically, but I do at least have a little experience on the subject.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Freewind

[TR0Nx]

all this hate on snipers...i dont get why..noone seems to mind rocket noobs an OPGl spamers..comeon stop going on about weapons being OP an so ..just cuz new people have taken over dont keep trying to change things just cuz u dont like it..learn to do it yourself or become a sniper..

[Similarities]

1 minute ago, Freewind said:

I don't know if this is meant to be "You're not a game dev shut up" but I have actually taken a class on game design (Believe it or not.)

 

Not a very deep one and certainly not on APB specifically, but I do at least have a little experience on the subject.

Wasn't directed at you, I'm just saying I don't know how my suggestions will change the entire game, if animations take longer on the HVR it might change the meta drastically or completely kill the HVR.

[Voerman]

1 minute ago, TR0Nx said:

all this hate on snipers...i dont get why..noone seems to mind rocket noobs an OPGl spamers..comeon stop going on about weapons being OP an so ..just cuz new people have taken over dont keep trying to change things just cuz u dont like it..learn to do it yourself or become a sniper..

Difference is, you can hear the rockets and dodge them preemptively, OPGL requires a fair bit of understanding how to use grenade bounce to use well in a higher skill scenario. HVR is the fact that you plant your patootie on a corner and pop out for a millisecond and you've hit someone for 850 damage and now you can sneeze at them and they'll die. Not to mention it has incredibly accuracy in close quarters from the hip, you can QS with it and so on. Snipers as a whole aren't the issue, the N-HVR is. It's oppressive and the only real counter to a HVR is another HVR and that's not how game design works.

[CommandantSteele]

5 minutes ago, TR0Nx said:

all this hate on snipers...i dont get why..noone seems to mind rocket noobs an OPGl spamers..comeon stop going on about weapons being OP an so ..just cuz new people have taken over dont keep trying to change things just cuz u dont like it..learn to do it yourself or become a sniper..

With the OPGL and rockets there's at least plenty of warning that something bad is coming your way. With snipers, you could just be jogging along and out of the blue most of your health is gone.

 

I also enjoy sniping and have a 3 slot variant of the HVR 762 from the loyalty rewards stuff.

 

The primary reason why people seem to hate the HVR seems to be the same reason why people hate LTL: It doesn't just kill you outright, that would be pretty forgiving because you can respawn only a few seconds later. Instead it makes you sit and wait and do nothing while your health comes back or you eventually despawn and are put on the respawn screen to continue waiting. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Freewind

[Fortune Runner]

someone spammed crouching on me recently....still died from bullets to the face so i don't see what the problem is.

 

is it their crouching? your aim and timing?