Let's talk Shotguns

[Nitronik 348]

More specifically, pump shotguns

Currently shotguns are awesomely consistent when they work.

And that's the point

Their current range drop off makes them extremely unreliable in anything that isn't spitting distance - and even then they struggle a bit.
Even playing cornerns doesn't really work well anymore since it's nigh impossible to get the full damage output, and that's where shotguns are supposed to be superior

The CSG doesn't suffer from this as much due to smooth spread and slightly better range (although the maximum potential damage of 620hp doesn't help it much) - but the JG has been hit really hard by the last range nerfs

For comparison - the NFAS kinda suffers from being a melee range weapon, but you can actually afford to rush down an opponent thanks to automatic fire and a sub .6 TTK

Ironically the Shredder went from being overpowered to nigh useless - it's pretty much worse than the CSG in most ways


What do you all think?


 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Nitronik

[Aeronaut 647]

flamethrower attachment?

 

or equip blowtorch into one of the slots.

 

csg no longer has that perfectly circle spread right? that was years ago since it's been changed?

[Nitronik 348]

3 minutes ago, Aeronaut said:

flamethrower attachment?

 

or equip blowtorch into one of the slots.

 

csg no longer has that perfectly circle spread right? that was years ago since it's been changed?

Correct, perfect circle spread has been gone for years - the size of spread was reduced in the latest patch, and it still has around 20 pellets iirc

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Nitronik

[KnifuWaifu 499]

1 minute ago, Aeronaut said:

flamethrower attachment?

Yes.

 

APB needs more Geneva Convention violations, we've already done chemical weapons, no point stopping now.

[Kewlin 692]

I'm currently working on an in-depth thread talking about the underpowered shotguns, but my basic opinion is the CSG and JG need their RoF reverted, the CSG needs more range, and the JG needs to have a more forgiving pellet damage curve.

[Nitronik 348]

1 minute ago, Kewlin said:

I'm currently working on an in-depth thread talking about the underpowered shotguns, but my basic opinion is the CSG and JG need their RoF reverted, the CSG needs more range, and the JG needs to have a more forgiving pellet damage curve.

Personally I don't think the RoF needs a full revert - they can be competitive at slightly sub .7 if they actually have some range to them

Keep in mind a revert would be .68 TTK - I think JG can work with .7 if it has decent range, and the CSG could have its range bumped a bit with a ttk of .72

I do agree with .77 being excessive however

Edited November 7, 2018 by Nitronik

[Ketog 1032]

i think shotguns needs a very slight range buff , all of them , and CSG is the one that needs it the most , DOW is the one that needs it the least .

 

i would personally do this to shotties

 

Give all of  them a +5 meters range , and make their damage dropoff curve a bit smoother

 

For CSG i would give it a 20meters range

 

and for the NFAS Ogre i would rise the base damage per pellet to 65 ( so , still lower than normal NFAS )

[Kewlin 692]

8 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

Personally I don't think the RoF needs a full revert - they can be competitive at slightly sub .7 if they actually have some range to them

Keep in mind a revert would be .68 TTK - I think JG can work with .7 if it has decent range, and the CSG could have its range bumped a bit with a ttk of .72

I do agree with .77 being excessive however

 

They weren't OP before, they won't be OP now, lol. Just revert their RoF, as the CSG and JG have nearly the same damage as they had before LO touched them now.

[Decimator714 22]

Am I the only one that thinks there was no problem with shotguns to begin with, and the change should be reverted?

[Kewlin 692]

Just now, Decimator714 said:

Am I the only one that thinks there was no problem with shotguns to begin with, and the change should be reverted?

You're not really the only one, though I think a little bit of the pellet curves could be nice.

 

But all in all, I'd be happy with a fully revert.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Kewlin

[dett2 64]

To be honest , shotguns were fine before weapon balancing by LO.

I want fully revert.

[nikitos5 51]

Yes, the range could sometimes be not enough for you. That's why I put improved rifling 3 on JG

[Kariiim 16]

they should keep them how it was at the beginning they where really good now it really need to be buffed

46 minutes ago, dett2 said:

To be honest , shotguns were fine before weapon balancing by LO.

I want fully revert.

agree^^

[CookiePuss 5379]

On 11/7/2018 at 1:18 AM, Nitronik said:

~snip~

 

#justrevertshotguns

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by CookiePuss

[neophobia 216]

On 11/7/2018 at 11:09 AM, Ketog said:

-snip-

i think the old rule against overformatting was quite good

 

shotguns were really inconsistent - otherwise fine - before LO, very OP (way too forgiving, way to viable in longer than intended ranges) after the first change... aaand I haven't played anymore after that.

 

the change w/ the pellets to make shotguns more consistent was a quite good idea imo though and should not be reverted.

 

shotguns should not be too "high" range to not make smgs etc obsolete. i guess it just needs tweaking - not reverting.

[EDDIEWRECKER 0]

Im in on the Revert of shotty's

[vsb 6171]

i hope they buff the thumper even more, we need a new yukon 

[Frosi 722]

My idea for something they could do with shotguns is to revert them to their old state before G1 nerfed them all the way back in the day, which means giving them their damage and set pallet pattern back. Now if they mess with the damage values (or just apply the current live ones) and then apply their current system that increases the damage of the earlier pallets but change it in a way that makes the CENTER pallets deal more damage then I think that shotguns could be pushed a little further in terms of consistency. 

 

When they first changed shotguns they were too forgiving and had far too much range, to fix that they changed the guns rate of fire and harshly lowered the added damage the early pallets deal which meant that right now shotguns could be considered worse than what they were before LO first messed with them. All in all, I don't think shotguns needed much of a buff/change to begin with but ended up in a very wonky state due to the changes they applied which they then had to balance. 

 

Although I would really prefer if they reverted the shotguns to their old state before LO touched them and then maybe tinker with them in a few months from now when they're feeling more confident in changing things regarding gunplay (Hopefully with the help of dedicated community members).

[Scoreson 6]

1 hour ago, Frosi said:

My idea for something they could do with shotguns is to revert them to their old state before G1 nerfed them all the way back in the day, which means giving them their damage and set pallet pattern back. Now if they mess with the damage values (or just apply the current live ones) and then apply their current system that increases the damage of the earlier pallets but change it in a way that makes the CENTER pallets deal more damage then I think that shotguns could be pushed a little further in terms of consistency. 

I really like this idea, it would actually reward players who have better aim and still keep them somewhat reliable, completely the opposite of what we have right now, where partial hits are almost as effective as full hits thus reducing the skill gap by allowing worse players to pull off some lucky kills.

Everything can easily change though, as they implemented this pellet damage mechanic to compensate for bad server performance.

On 7/6/2018 at 10:39 PM, MattScott said:

Again, Shotguns are hard to balance. Currently we feel they are powerful but very inconsistent, and some of this is because how our servers perform at higher latency.

So, they should actually fix the root problem instead of working around it, I know it's not easy, but it would certainly lower the chances of taking a bad design decision and upsetting a bunch of people.

 

Anyway, regardless of server performance, I'd still really like to test this idea to see how it would compare to the actual gameplay.

[BlatMan 711]

Shotguns need tighter spread, more range, more graceful damage dropoff, but with lower damage per shot. I want them to consistently 3 shot at 15M. If you're in the open long enough to take 3 shots you would have died from any other weapon anyway. Currently, the only shotgun worth using is the CSG with IR3 preset. The JG has too much spread and limited range, and the N-FAS has way too much spread. Maybe make the N-FAS consistently 4 shot at 15M for balance sake.

 

I also think we need another shotgun, one that's a slug type similar to the NL-9 but with health/stamina damage reverse. That's for another discussion but just throwing it out there.

Edited November 7, 2018 by MrsHappyPenguin

[Noob_Guardian 418]

12 hours ago, MrsHappyPenguin said:

Shotguns need tighter spread, more range, more graceful damage dropoff, but with lower damage per shot. I want them to consistently 3 shot at 15M. If you're in the open long enough to take 3 shots you would have died from any other weapon anyway. Currently, the only shotgun worth using is the CSG with IR3 preset. The JG has too much spread and limited range, and the N-FAS has way too much spread. Maybe make the N-FAS consistently 4 shot at 15M for balance sake.

 

I also think we need another shotgun, one that's a slug type similar to the NL-9 but with health/stamina damage reverse. That's for another discussion but just throwing it out there.

The only argument i have against that is every other weapon actually needs to you to be out in the open partially to kill someone over the ttk while shotguns just hit a corner partially and fire and run back in. 3x isn't hard for shotguns and is rather forgiving. 4x I can agree with but due to ease it shouldn't be a consistent 3. Consistent 2 for CSG at 8-9m, and JG for 5-7. Nfas should be fine at 0-5 and 1 extra added on every meter after 6.

 

Strife should be back at 2 shotting at 12m consistently though.

 

That way SMG's kick in fine at 12m+ because oca is most effective from 20-, and pmg from ~15-25m.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

Shotties needs a buff again.

And i would like to see shotties less accurate as it was b4 g1 change to fully accurate, so ppl start to use RS on it, and aim to rly land those hits.

Also I would like to keep its TTK of 0,72s if i am correct, so shotties dont outttk most weapons, and u need to use them tactically. I like TTK change LO did.

So I am not for full reverse, I d like to find some middle ground.

Edited November 8, 2018 by AxeTurboAgresor

[Kewlin 692]

19 hours ago, Ketog said:

~SNIP~

 

I pretty much totally agree TBH.