Triggerbotting - Solution? Get rid of crosshair changing colours.

[vsb 6171]

5 minutes ago, Snubnose said:

I'm I'm still going to argue about the crouched hitbox now.
Even if it is intended like this, doesn't mean it's good. (remember, G1 buffed the OCA when people were crying about the PMG being OP, so decision making with RP was always a gamble, most time for the worst.) I still remember the post with the pictures of the hitboxes and how they changed it ages ago... IMO people should stay covered if they're crouched. it's also really confusing for new players... they crouch behind cover but get F'd anyway. I just don't like it being crouched behind cover but still getting hit. I know the hitbox increases vertically when moving while crouched since that change, but isn't that what you should be able to do behind cover? relocate a bit, to try and get to (somewhat) safety / recover? (no pun intended). there's other ways to counter someone behind cover, we don't need extended hitboxes for that. run around the cover, or charge right at him... he should be tagged anyway at that point... or throw a nade, get a teammate to do something (if you're teamed obviously, no teamplay with randoms LUL).

all I'm saying is: I don't want huge hitboxes, I want to use cover properly without worrying about my invisible huge aura getting blasted.

i think it was more to promote the faster paced gameplay; cover is useful but its not something you can "abuse", so to speak

popping into cover will be useful but attempting to remain in cover will ultimately put you at a disadvantage

obviously theres mixed results, but for a direct comparison, i feel gameplay would be very irritating if all crouch height cover acted like the mobile cover consumable

  Edited September 12, 2018 by BXNNXD
typo

[Kewlin 692]

12 minutes ago, Snubnose said:

~snip~

No.

Also, stop being off topic.

[Snubnose 640]

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

i think it was more to promote the faster paced gameplay; cover is useful but its not something you can "abuse", so to speak

popping into cover will be useful but attempting to remain in cover will ultimately put you at a disadvantage

obviously theres mixed results, but for a direct comparison, i feel gameplay would be very irritating if all crouch height cover acted like the mobile cover consumable

 

I get it. but I feel like taking the pace out of a fight is something you should be able to do, that's what cover is there for. (it's just for a short bit anyway, they just have to approach you differently to finish you off, instead of just keep shooting from the exact same position for another 0.5 seconds, because that's how it is with low cover right now... you make your hitbox quite small bot 90% of the time it's just delaying your death by half a second, while with full cover you'd have a chance - if they don't nade you - to recover HP and slightly relocate)

mobile cover is just instant cover out of nowhere when you're exposed like hell. I think they should do something about that because it really is a problem getting cover right infront of you without worrying about how you expose yourself. maybe give it a 1-2 second windup.

[PitterPatter 139]

4 hours ago, Signarly said:

While I agree and also dont really care memory readers are probably a lot easier for battleye to catch.

Idk if I agree with relying on a red cross hair to confirm you're looking at something. If the only reason you're shooting at something is because your cross hair turns red are you aiming or fishing? They changed names popping up and crosshair turning red through smoke in R6Siege for that reason. While I get that smoke grenades in Siege arent necessarily the same as smoke particles from explosions in game using it as cover should be an option, but while red crosshairs are in the game it doesnt exist. 

While you could argue that getting rid of a feature just because it's used to cheat is silly the red crosshair being used to find an enemy through something where you cant physically see them is just as silly. 

To downvoters: I'd love to hear your rebuttal as to why being able to see names/red crosshair through smoke/solid objects is considered a great game mechanic instead of just downvoting.

@Lixil Idk why you guys enabled the downvote button. Makes no sense in a forum meant for discussion.  Edited September 12, 2018 by Signarly

[Kewlin 692]

3 minutes ago, Signarly said:

To downvoters: I'd love to hear your rebuttal as to why being able to see names/red crosshair through smoke/solid objects is considered a great game mechanic instead of just downvoting.

@Lixil Idk why you guys enabled the downvote button. Makes no sense in a forum meant for discussion. 

I don't think anyone thinks getting a red crosshair through smoke or solid objects is good, but that doesn't mean the system should be removed entirely.

And the downvote's not a bad idea, it reduces the number of posts that are just, "no, you're dumb."

[PitterPatter 139]

Just now, Kewlin said:

I don't think anyone thinks getting a red crosshair through smoke or solid objects is good, but that doesn't mean the system should be removed entirely.

And the downvote's not a bad idea, it reduces the number of posts that are just, "no, you're dumb."

Well his comment has 9 people agreeing with him about being able to use the red crosshair as the main way of shooting under cars/through smoke being an important mechanic. Whether he meant it as a good or bad thing I dont know. Then again it's a streamer posting so they get biased likes out the wazoo.

Could also be "me no like change!" which is a bunch of people just holding on for dear life not trying to fix the holes on the sinking ship and just claiming the ship will be fine.

Atleast reworked would be nice,  but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to do anything about it with the current engine they're on. I'm not sure what engine Siege is on, but they got that changed in a pretty timely manner and there was pretty much only positivity about the change. I mean there are even spots on the map where you can shoot through garages that appear solid because your crosshair turns red and let's you know you can shoot someone through it.

[Kewlin 692]

17 minutes ago, Signarly said:

Well his comment has 9 people agreeing with him about being able to use the red crosshair as the main way of shooting under cars/through smoke being an important mechanic. Whether he meant it as a good or bad thing I dont know. Then again it's a streamer posting so they get biased likes out the wazoo.

Could also be "me no like change!" which is a bunch of people just holding on for dear life not trying to fix the holes on the sinking ship and just claiming the ship will be fine.

Atleast reworked would be nice,  but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to do anything about it with the current engine they're on. I'm not sure what engine Siege is on, but they got that changed in a pretty timely manner and there was pretty much only positivity about the change. I mean there are even spots on the map where you can shoot through garages that appear solid because your crosshair turns red and let's you know you can shoot someone through it.

Under cars isn't through a solid object or anything and should work IMO, through smoke is a little silly though.

. . . wooden fences and the like are a whole different story, but I think anything you can shoot through without piercing should really should just be re-worked to not be visually solid.

[Dopefish 248]

1 hour ago, Signarly said:

I'd love to hear your rebuttal as to why being able to see names/red crosshair through smoke/solid objects is considered a great game mechanic instead of just downvoting.

I'm not against a change like that, but I'm against the idea of changing it because of triggerbots. I'd also be against removing the crosshair turning red when aiming towards someone near cover, as it would promote creating smaller characters to hide your presence.
 

14 hours ago, YakuzaStyle said:

It's funny that you guys don't want to remove the red crosshair for cheaters, yet people agree with having the Random Number Generator/RNG recoil (also known as "win by luck") for cheaters.

Random spread doesn't stop people from aimbotting, and if anything, only makes it less obvious that they do. APB always had the spread, so it was never a decision made to prevent cheating. I wouldn't mind changing the game to use recoil patterns more similar to games such as CS, which would be an additional way to improve gun feel and give more characteristics to each weapon.

The one change they did though was to remove the server side hitmarkers, to prevent people from calculating the random seed and making aimbots that accounted for it. People weren't happy with that change as far as I remember, and as usual G1 never listened to any kind of feedback.

[Kanashimi 39]

3 hours ago, Kewlin said:

In a game where you character can be basically half the height of their hitbox, you can't not have the crosshair change color, lol.

Honestly, if triggerbots are the best cheat people, then I don't really care that much; they're not really that bad. I'd rather have a feature that makes the game more fun for me than worry about a few triggerbotters.

So with configured triggerbots that fire with a delay between shots coupled with a hotkey, aren't a problem? Also it's not just a "few". So, many people trying to keep triggerbots viable... SO many coming out of the woodwork. If that person is using a duck, life is going to suck for you, or if they're using a jg, min ttk 2 pump champ. Edited September 12, 2018 by StinkyTaco

[Lucidy 21]

2 hours ago, Signarly said:

Well his comment has 9 people agreeing with him about being able to use the red crosshair as the main way of shooting under cars/through smoke being an important mechanic. Whether he meant it as a good or bad thing I dont know. Then again it's a streamer posting so they get biased likes out the wazoo.

Could also be "me no like change!" which is a bunch of people just holding on for dear life not trying to fix the holes on the sinking ship and just claiming the ship will be fine.

Atleast reworked would be nice,  but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to do anything about it with the current engine they're on. I'm not sure what engine Siege is on, but they got that changed in a pretty timely manner and there was pretty much only positivity about the change. I mean there are even spots on the map where you can shoot through garages that appear solid because your crosshair turns red and let's you know you can shoot someone through it.

3 hours ago, Signarly said:

To downvoters: I'd love to hear your rebuttal as to why being able to see names/red crosshair through smoke/solid objects is considered a great game mechanic instead of just downvoting.

@Lixil Idk why you guys enabled the downvote button. Makes no sense in a forum meant for discussion. 

I'm more curious as to why you would even compare APB to R6 when they are nothing alike and run on vastly different engines, have various different mechanics that sound like you're trying to use as a sound argument? Edited September 12, 2018 by Lucidy

[PitterPatter 139]

26 minutes ago, Lucidy said:

I'm more curious as to why you would even compare APB to R6 when they are nothing alike and run on vastly different engines, have various different mechanics that sound like you're trying to use as a sound argument?

Yeah you're right they aren't the same i'm comparing a successful game to an unsuccessful game! Jesus, being able to see an enemy through smoke in R6 is just as unfair as being able to see an enemy through smoke on APB. I'm not talking about aspects of the game that have nothing to do with each other so the argument is fine. Do you really think all of APBs mechanics are just made up and aren't pulled from other games?

[Lucidy 21]

14 minutes ago, Signarly said:

58 minutes ago, Lucidy said:

I'm more curious as to why you would even compare APB to R6 when they are nothing alike and run on vastly different engines, have various different mechanics that sound like you're trying to use as a sound argument?

Yeah you're right they aren't the same i'm comparing a successful game to an unsuccessful game! Jesus, being able to see an enemy through smoke in R6 is just as unfair as being able to see an enemy through smoke on APB. I'm not talking about aspects of the game that have nothing to do with each other so the argument is fine. Do you really think all of APBs mechanics are just made up and aren't pulled from other games?

Yet again the usage of the mechanics are vastly different though.
R6 you intentionally use smokes to an attacker's advantage, hence why there are defenders gadgets that can combat smokes.
When in apb do you exactly intentionally use smoke to your benefit? Maybe once out of like the 50 instances it actually happens and then you realize there's 0 point to do it, so therefore it happens less and less. Not to mention there are no smoke grenades in apb, it's literally just there from explosions. Your argument would make more sense if there were intentional use of smoke in apb, like an actual smoke grenade, but there is no such thing.

[Darkzero3802 611]

22 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

i’d be willing to try it at least, altho i’m not sure i like changing game mechanics around cheaters 

Agreed I dont like changing either based off of hackers. What really should be done is LO staff having the power to remove ppl with hacks. If theres enough proof these ppl should be removed and placed on a bubble where pending review they are either banned or allowed back into the game. This would keep hackers from ruining the game as much and anyone caught in error is not banned. LO staff should also look at said streams and if its found they have hacks on its proof enough for a ban. Theres other ways to get hackers and LO should utilize these ways to further fair play.

[Shui 225]

And another thread from a scrub about scrubs ...
Gitgud

Edited September 12, 2018 by Halelulia
english

[BrandonBranderson 672]

14 hours ago, mynd said:

15 hours ago, TrinityFSB said:

Negotiating with terrorist is heresy, yes...  But doing away with the reticle changing color would allow players to use many forms of concealment to their advantage. (Car tires, low walls, bushes, etc...) 

This would actually be a plus in my book.  One of the biggest issues with a lot of areas in APB is the lack of cover.  Honestly, shouldn't be able to shoot under cars regardless imo; it's better from a gameplay perspective VS what's real.

What the fuck?  I don't think players should be able to shoot through wheels, but under the actual body of the car where there's a big a$$ gap in most cases and their feet are totally visible?  That just seems like it would be extremely frustrating and odd to not be able to hit them from under the car.
  Edited September 12, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[Rikard86 32]

No need to remove the red crosshair, just make sure it's a different shade of red each time, something barely noticeable by the human eye but just different enough that if somebody tries to set up their triggerbot by color range it either ends up picking up everything and they end up firing all the time or it ends up being so precise they fire 1/4 of the time.

Switch the color ranges each patch for maximum enraging profit.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Rikard86

[Parthian 344]

this ain't it chief

[Revoluzzer 274]

11 hours ago, Dopefish said:

Random spread doesn't stop people from aimbotting, and if anything, only makes it less obvious that they do. APB always had the spread, so it was never a decision made to prevent cheating.

APB's spread system exists because recoil (i.e. screen shake) originally didn't. Making aimbotting slightly less effective was just a neat bonus on the side.

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

Triggerbot aside. I wouldnt mind to play without crosshair changing colors while aiming at the enemy. May still turn green if aiming at friendly target.

[Too_many_snowflakes 80]

8 hours ago, BrandonBranderson said:

What the fuck?  I don't think players should be able to shoot through wheels, but under the actual body of the car where there's a big a$$ gap in most cases and their feet are totally visible?  That just seems like it would be extremely frustrating and odd to not be able to hit them from under the car.
 

There have been multiple real-life scenarios where the FBI has shot perps in the feet and ankles by shooting underneath said perp's car.  This has been a thing for awhile... 

[Zolerox 564]

On 9/12/2018 at 1:35 AM, BXNNXD said:

i’d be willing to try it at least, altho i’m not sure i like changing game mechanics around cheaters 

You're right. We should be balancing around cheaters.

[vsb 6171]

Just now, Zolerox said:

You're right. We should be balancing around cheaters.

no?

[MaxHeadR 23]

I'm all for getting rid of the color, to stop or deter, non-injected triggerbots.

[LilyV3 323]

On 9/12/2018 at 5:50 AM, Kewlin said:

In a game where you character can be basically half the height of their hitbox, you can't not have the crosshair change color, lol.

Honestly, if triggerbots are the best cheat people, then I don't really care that much; they're not really that bad. I'd rather have a feature that makes the game more fun for me than worry about a few triggerbotters.

this would give cheaters with aimbots or hitbox highlights, just even more of an advantage over the regular player. We shouldn't plan game features around cheaters. but the anticheat should be imporved to detect triggerbots.

[Tobii 346]

You would have to remove the player info pop-up as well then. If you were to remove the crosshair color change.
Still not a good option seeing as model size and hitbox would be a problem then.

This part

Edited September 13, 2018 by Tobii
Added image