Proof Shredder Is Imbalanced

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, SLICKIEM said:

They just gotta tweak the actual range stat itself, or the min damage dropoff. Make it drop to min damage at 20m, but keep the pellet rework. That'd probably be a good happy medium

that wouldnt solve anything imo

the spread shotguns have is a balancing feature in itself since you need to hit all the pellets to do reliable damage, when you allow any 2 pellets from the large spread to deal nearly full damage it negates that balancing

reducing the dropoff range would do nothing to keep shotguns as a category from cheesing through bad aim, and the dropoff itself would have far less of an effect since - as above - you only need a few pellets for near max damage

[SLICKIEM 118]

5 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

cheesing through bad aim

They could always tweak the pellet amount damage curve to be less forgiving. Instead of 25% of the pellets doing 75% of the damage, make it like 50% of the pellets deal 65% of the damage. A little less forgiving, but still a little more than before the patch. The script is already there implemented, they might as well use it rather than roll back. Edited August 29, 2018 by SLICKIEM

[vsb 6171]

10 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:

They could always tweak the pellet amount damage curve to be less forgiving. Instead of 5 pellets doing 75% of the damage, make it like 50% of the pellets deal 65% of the damage. A little less forgiving, but still a little more than before the patch. The script is already there implemented, they might as well use it rather than roll back.

yes this is what i was saying 

frankly id rather they just went all the way back on the pellet changes, but it'd be nice to test different levels

[Yoss 31]

I just wanted to say that the video that was linked was the IR3 variant of the shredder

[Rikard86 32]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

"This weapon that is designed to be effective at 20m-30m killed me at 20m-30m, therefore it is overpowered and needs to be nerfed."

A fullauto, forgiving gun that is not affected by RNG spread and with barely any recoil, thus able to down opponents up to 1/3 of draw view and always hit min TTK by holding M1 is balanced, sure. I think the ATAC got nerfed for the same reason.

But yeah, the actual problem with the Shredder is not that it's too strong by itself, it's that it's too strong compared to its competitors, since they either are RNG based (ATAC, STAR, Carbine), require tapfiring (NTEC) or precise timing (OSCAR) - basically, it's the easiest and most rewarding gun in the bunch, which straight up looks bad considering it's an item not unlockable via progression.
Add the fact that most fights occur in that range and you can see where this is going.

On top of that, most environments in APB are designed so that it's easier to get closer to your opponent by moving from cover to cover or rush them with cars than to get away and outrange them, which makes the most effective to counter the Shredder rushing them up in their face with another darn shotgun, which just makes it worse, since it makes the shotgun weapon class absolutely dominate from 0 to 30m.
  Edited August 29, 2018 by Rikard86

[Goldtiger 133]

Reading through this makes me lose faith in this game. I didn't realize the fucking Shredder was an assault rifle

[dett2 64]

Shredder Mains - "Shredder is Fine"
yeah maybe it is , only in your head ^^

[WolfordNeon40 3]

>>since it makes the shotgun weapon class absolutely dominate from 0 to 30m.
so make ntec absolutely dominate from 0 to 30m, everyone agree?, if no then why APB still put sg into the weapon list?
 

Edited August 30, 2018 by WolfordNeon40

[vsb 6171]

2 minutes ago, WolfordNeon40 said:

>>since it makes the shotgun weapon class absolutely dominate from 0 to 30m.
so make ntec absolutely dominate from 0 to 30m, everyone agree?, if no then why APB still put sg into the weapon list?
 

this makes no sense

[MrBubbleTea 8]

7 hours ago, SLICKIEM said:

7 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

the shredder has always had its range capabilities, the only thing id say is wrong with it is the incredible forgiveness shotguns have due to current pellet mechanics - but that applies to the category as a whole not just the shredder

What I find funny is how people are picking the Shredder to complain about. It's like they don't worry about a JG 2-shotting them when like 3 pellets hit from each shell. Come on...

just stop pls

[Rikard86 32]

4 hours ago, WolfordNeon40 said:

>>since it makes the shotgun weapon class absolutely dominate from 0 to 30m.
so make ntec absolutely dominate from 0 to 30m, everyone agree?, if no then why APB still put sg into the weapon list?
 

NTEC used to dominate at 10-70m, the only"safer" spots being extreme close up and sniper (with the first one still being a gamble). 
The 2015 Nerf made the situation a bit better, right now it's great at mid while just being passable pasf its range.

it shouldn't get blown out of the water at the range it operates best by a shotgun of all things, tho.

[SLICKIEM 118]

9 hours ago, MrBubbleTea said:

just stop pls

Bro that was SAVAGE. How long'd it take you to come up with that SICK burn??

[Danimal 36]

I am glad I am missing this meta build. Anyone remember when the troublemaker crutch was released? How long did it take to rectify? 

See ya at 3.5.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Danimal

[Rikard86 32]

7 minutes ago, Danimal said:

I am glad I am missing this meta build. Anyone remember when the troublemaker crutch was released? How long did it take to rectify? 

See ya at 3.5.

Shotguns as a whole are already being looked at, there are some test districts on the live servers running the latest weapon balance patch and apparently they are back in line. Might give it a try whaddayaknow? Edited August 30, 2018 by Rikard86

[McRabbiton 22]

If you look close you see that there was someone with an assist on him. As he jumped out of the house (gravity) and maybe got shot you can`t really tell if the shredder did only the last 20% or the full 100%

But still all shotguns are slightly op atm

[Davess 19]

18 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Scrubs already working on the defenses to defend their latest crutch. Always a sad laugh having to read through those delusions.

how can something be a crutch when its readily available for anyone to buy and use , JT Shredder is only 700 JTs

[Kevkof 806]

4 minutes ago, GermanTobi said:

If you look close you see that there was someone with an assist on him. As he jumped out of the house (gravity) and maybe got shot you can`t really tell if the shredder did only the last 20% or the full 100%

But still all shotguns are slightly op atm

What about the second kill though? That one is just the shredder, 4 shotting that green

[McRabbiton 22]

2 minutes ago, Kevkof said:

11 minutes ago, GermanTobi said:

If you look close you see that there was someone with an assist on him. As he jumped out of the house (gravity) and maybe got shot you can`t really tell if the shredder did only the last 20% or the full 100%

But still all shotguns are slightly op atm

What about the second kill though? That one is just the shredder, 4 shotting that green

Well. Its quite op for that range but even with a ntec or star he would have had a lower TTK. 

Just give all the shotguns a range nerf and everything is fine

[Mightyena 28]

Wasn't the shredder originally designed as a shotgun that is useful out to more of a mid range than most other shotguns?

Further, should every single weapon in the game require 100% skill, all the time?

I think maybe it could use just a smidge lower fire rate, but there's a reason why games with "smart guns" get such large numbers of fans outside of the hardcore fps group: it gives those people who aren't as good at aiming a viable alternative.

I think it should be a 4 shot kill up close, with its' damage falloff starting around 25m. That's what it's designed to be. It could maybe use a small, small nerf to get rid of the massive overdamage but as it stands, it's a little less skill-based than most other weapons in the game, but it's far from overpowered -- it simply gives the masses of worse players a viable alternative against the tryhards at the top, while still having a higher ttk than most weapons anyone in the upper echelon of the game would use.

that said, I think most OTHER shotguns should only be a 2-shot up to 10m, then start falling off hard to the point they are useless at a shredder's range.

[Zolerox 564]

*Buys Shredder from jokerstore

[Rikard86 32]

15 minutes ago, Mightyena said:

Further, should every single weapon in the game require 100% skill, all the time?

• Good TTK
• Versatile
• Easy to use

A weapon, to be properly balanced, should check two elements off this checklist. Most weapons in APB do, some even check only one.

Shredder checks all three.

[Keshi 436]

1 hour ago, Zolerox said:

*Buys Shredder from jokerstore

maboy

[Danimal 36]

Nova is CS GO is one of my favorite guns.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

1 hour ago, Davess said:

20 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Scrubs already working on the defenses to defend their latest crutch. Always a sad laugh having to read through those delusions.

how can something be a crutch when its readily available for anyone to buy and use , JT Shredder is only 700 JTs

Because availability stays in no relation to sth. qualifying as a crutch?
What you just said is that there is no problem for a gun to be utterly broken as long as its freely available - I point you to my initial post that describes your objection perfectly.

 

1 hour ago, Mightyena said:

[...] but there's a reason why games with "smart guns" get such large numbers of fans outside of the hardcore fps group: it gives those people who aren't as good at aiming a viable alternative.
[...]

What the heck is a "smart gun"?
So when casuals are given tools to cheese out wins over players who are actually putting in the effort they obviously have fun.
But it's a terribly wrong approach. You can't establish your balancing around such things that's why we need (and have) proper classifications for skill groups.
There is a reason why sports have norms and skillgroups. Why should someone worse be allowed to compete with someone better - that would be stupid.

[Darkzero3802 611]

20 hours ago, Spaghettio said:

getting reliable kills with a .69 cqc weapon out to 25m isn't impressive? along with the added benefit of bullshoot damage shooting over cars/cover and barely touching their hitbox and getting kills?
should we also talk about the hard damage it does within a short time period?
2025 hard damage within 3.44 seconds with the added bonus of a tight spread making it easy as heck to blow a car up
besides that i noticed you don't even wanna acknowledge the fact that its RNG/Spread is near nonexistent when taking into account the initial pellet damage 

last i checked a jg/csg falls off significantly past 10m unless you're using IR3 which effectively makes it a .8 TTK and even then less pellets hit the target the farther it is
IR3 is practically a waste with the JG and the CSG ends up taking probably like 4-5 shots at 20m with IR3 making it a 1.6 TTK at the very least
so unless every situation revolves around the jg/csg getting within 10 meters consistently i don't see how a JG/CSG facefucks you

defending the shredder is rather pathetic regardless we are getting a well needed nerf
i understand that you guys simply wanna pick on a silver but this is stupid

Im not silver. I stopped caring about the broken threats back in 2016 and I no longer bother trying in the main dist. I just do as I please and use what I want. If i were to go back to trying id have gold tho.

20 hours ago, Siamsol said:

Damn, watching a recorded clip of that just makes it even more indefensible. Only 1/3 of the pellets hit at the range of that second kill, and it still melted that poor guy. Guess I missed when they replaced the buckshot with anti-tank rounds. No idea how LO can see this and say "oh maybe the fire rate is too high." APB is in good hands.

Fie rate is fine its the range. Pellets spread and these really arent which is why its so broken

20 hours ago, SLICKIEM said:

20 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

the shredder has always had its range capabilities, the only thing id say is wrong with it is the incredible forgiveness shotguns have due to current pellet mechanics - but that applies to the category as a whole not just the shredder

What I find funny is how people are picking the Shredder to complain about. It's like they don't worry about a JG 2-shotting them when like 3 pellets hit from each shell. Come on...

At point blank shotties should 2 shot you, thats their metta and if they cant do that they are ineffective and we all should use smgs..... oh wait we did that for yrs after the PMG buff.