Weapon Balance OTW Tweaks - A/B Testing Values.

[Tobii]

To throw in a bit more in regards to the shotguns to make them get in line with other CQC weapons.
I threw a few ideas around with @Kewlin and we figured that lowering the "consistency" of the shotgun would prevent it from being overly strong in CQC.

I whipped this up using your graph to get a rough line and numbers, then did a bit of tweaking.
AGAIN. Take this with a grain of salt.

If you were to to combine the dropoff range of the shotgun with a more straight line, you should be able to make shotgun hit a sweet spot where it would be consistent enough while not being able to snipe people at 30 meters.
So I would maybe add 3 meters to the previous graph, making the shotgun 2-shot able up to 13 meters.
This would also make IR3 relevant on shotguns if you long for that bit of extra range, making it 20 meters instead.

The dropoff range might have to be quite aggressive though.
Seeing as you would still be able to 2-shot past the 13 meter mark since you're doing 651 damage.
At 15 meters you most likely still do 500+ damage, meaning it's still a 2-shot if enough pellets hit on that range.


Here is the dropoff changes that seem to make the most sense combined with the curve system.

The current curve makes it too forgiving even if you miss a lot or shoot people on range where half the pellets don't hit the target.

The reason I am posting here @LO_Beastie is because this is not aimed at either the A or B variant, but the overall shotgun change.

Another curve that's a little more forgiving but still less than the current

Edited August 2, 2018 by Tobii

[Kewlin]

4 minutes ago, Tobii said:

To throw in a bit more in regards to the shotguns to make them get in line with other CQC weapons.
I threw a few ideas around with @Kewlin and we figured that lowering the "consistency" of the shotgun would prevent it from being overly strong in CQC.

I whipped this up using your graph to get a rough line and numbers, then did a bit of tweaking.

If you were to to combine the dropoff range of the shotgun with a more straight line, you should be able to make shotgun hit a sweet spot where it would be consistent enough while not being able to snipe people at 30 meters.
So I would maybe add 3 meters to the previous graph, making the shotgun 2-shot able up to 13 meters.
This would also make IR3 relevant on shotguns if you long for that bit of extra range, making it 20 meters instead.

The current curve makes it too forgiving even if you miss a lot or shoot people on range where half the bullets don't hit the target.

The reason I am posting here @LO_Beastie is because this is not aimed at either the A or B variant, but the overall shotgun change.

Basically everything you said. I think one of the most important things about this is it would make the CSG not necessarily delete all other guns in CQC, whereas if you took A or B and reduced the gun's range then it would still destroy every other gun within its range.

[tennogrineer]

@Tobii@Kewlin - as mentioned in the baylan a thread and seen during frosi's stream this morning, it seems the best option to address that is by either not having the pellet update affect the csg (live line being ideal, lowering consistency like suggested) or just lowering the csg damage by 100 (or some other sweet spot, making the curve closer to current live while retaining the pellet benefit). this way it can retain its place of being more of a ranged shotgun (more likely to have to 3 shot) but not dominate very close quarters (where other weapons should shine, like the jg specifically).

[ZoriaDunne]

Is this all the balance we gonna get? or more weapons coming?

[Keshi]

5 hours ago, Lign said:

6 hours ago, Keshi said:

use a carbine for mid range
oca/pmg/shotgun closerange
obeya longrange. easy counter +1

Or I can just use ntec for all ranges and situations

nah...if you dont miss a bullet you can kill an ntec user close range while he prob touched you with max 4bullets

[FluttershyI]

The Anubis mechanic makes no sense. It should have maximum accuracy when you start shooting, gaining accuracy over time makes the weapon far from good compared to other snipers and rifles. (Also there almost no situation anybody would benefit from it as you'de already be dead due to it's slow TTK). If that gets fixed it's actually usable for missions aswell.

Edited August 2, 2018 by FluttershyI

[Similarities]

29 minutes ago, TheKeanuReeves said:

Is this all the balance we gonna get? or more weapons coming?

They'll be changing more weapons in the future, that's all the changes for this patch afaik.

[Kewlin]

3 hours ago, tennogrineer said:

@Tobii@Kewlin - as mentioned in the baylan a thread and seen during frosi's stream this morning, it seems the best option to address that is by either not having the pellet update affect the csg (live line being ideal, lowering consistency like suggested) or just lowering the csg damage by 100 (or some other sweet spot, making the curve closer to current live while retaining the pellet benefit). this way it can retain its place of being more of a ranged shotgun (more likely to have to 3 shot) but not dominate very close quarters (where other weapons should shine, like the jg specifically).

You can't lower a 651 damage shotgun's damage by 100 and have it work, lol. When you make a shotgun 2-shot it needs to 2-shot by a large margine or it quickly becomes an extremely awkward gun and would honestly be better off being 3-shot, and clearly LO doesn't want to not apply these curves to the CSG, so Tobii and I's solution is the clear answer.

[Too_many_snowflakes]

Was hoping for some improvements to the Dog Ear. Oh well.

[CookiePuss]

23 minutes ago, TrinityFSB said:

Was hoping for some improvements to the Dog Ear. Oh well.

But the Dog Ear is borderline OP as it is?

[Kewlin]

23 minutes ago, TrinityFSB said:

Was hoping for some improvements to the Dog Ear. Oh well.

The ISSR-B is already a contender for best gun in the game, lol.

[Too_many_snowflakes]

19 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

43 minutes ago, TrinityFSB said:

Was hoping for some improvements to the Dog Ear. Oh well.

But the Dog Ear is borderline OP as it is?

19 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

43 minutes ago, TrinityFSB said:

Was hoping for some improvements to the Dog Ear. Oh well.

The ISSR-B is already a contender for best gun in the game, lol.

Did it receive a buff since it's release?  I remember it being pretty finicky when it first came out. 

[Kewlin]

2 minutes ago, TrinityFSB said:

Did it receive a buff since it's release?  I remember it being pretty finicky when it first came out. 

Yes, twice, the most recent being in 2015.

[CookiePuss]

13 minutes ago, TrinityFSB said:

Did it receive a buff since it's release?  I remember it being pretty finicky when it first came out. 

Yeah like Kewlin said.
Check out the current stats here. 
https://db.apbvault.net/items/Weapon_SniperRifle_ISSR-Dogear_Slot2_Armas/

[Hexerin]

Reiterating for the umpteenth time, these HVR changes do literally nothing to correct the actual issues the weapon brings to the game.

[tennogrineer]

3 hours ago, Kewlin said:

You can't lower a 651 damage shotgun's damage by 100 and have it work, lol. When you make a shotgun 2-shot it needs to 2-shot by a large margine or it quickly becomes an extremely awkward gun and would honestly be better off being 3-shot, and clearly LO doesn't want to not apply these curves to the CSG, so Tobii and I's solution is the clear answer.

the idea is either keeping the consistency, but lowering the damage so it isn't as effective at range (there is still damage drop-off afaik).
or not apply the consistency at all, so isn't as effective at range.

both would accomplish the same thing.

[Kewlin]

44 minutes ago, tennogrineer said:

the idea is either keeping the consistency, but lowering the damage so it isn't as effective at range (there is still damage drop-off afaik).
or not apply the consistency at all, so isn't as effective at range.

both would accomplish the same thing.

Yes, but the CSG is already low damage for a 2-shot shotgun. That's why Tobii and I are suggesting basically applying a half-way between the updated B version and the live version, so it's more consistent but not OP.

[TheMessiah]

for me all this is like on chinese..no idea but i guess gg

[Hexerin]

Why is there even discussion about how to fix the current overtuning of the shotguns? The solution is extremely simple. Reduce the effective range on the traditional shotguns (JG, CSG, Strife, NFAS, True Ogre) to 5m, with the dropoff bottoming out at 15m with a 0% minimum damage percentage (in other words, they can't do damage past 15m). This allows the current changes to keep them completely consistent within their intended use case (point blank CQC and corner popping), while also fixing the current range problem. Everything is solved, with no downside.

[SandyBitch]

@LO_Beastie mind giving it a try to keep the stats for jg and csg for 1 - 2 days at the current live  servers stats? To let us see, how the shotguns perform with the great server performance? I would love to see, how the perform, when servers actually working properly

[Beastie]

15 minutes ago, SandyBitch said:

@LO_Beastie mind giving it a try to keep the stats for jg and csg for 1 - 2 days at the current live  servers stats? To let us see, how the shotguns perform with the great server performance? I would love to see, how the perform, when servers actually working properly

All of the districts currently running in OTW other than the weapon prototype ones are currently running live stats, so if you log into the OTW you can drop into any of the other districts (including a normal Baylan) and see how they perform.

 

[SandyBitch]

5 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:

All of the districts currently running in OTW other than the weapon prototype ones are currently running live stats, so if you log into the OTW you can drop into any of the other districts (including a normal Baylan) and see how they perform.

 

Ah, cool thanks, gotta test and compare them

[Tobii]

@LO_Beastie any chance I can get my hands on the pellet damage that you've used in your graphs?
I kinda just eyeballed it in the ones I made so they might be very inaccurate.

[Beastie]

2 hours ago, Tobii said:

@LO_Beastie any chance I can get my hands on the pellet damage that you've used in your graphs?
 I kinda just eyeballed it in the ones I made so they might be very inaccurate.

Sure, right now the shotguns have the following values (blue values are live, with the pellet value unchanging)



Sorry that it's a picture, just by far the fastest for me to grab, and I'm busy getting the next iteration of stats ready. This is the data for the graphs I posted earlier (the CSG is currently being shown on my graph, hence why it's grey in this image).

Pellet damage is calculated with the formula Damage*Scale^PelletsHitNum. Of minor note is damage is calculated as an integer, so floor any values that formula throws out.

[Tobii]

4 minutes ago, LO_Beastie said:

Sure, right now the shotguns have the following values (blue values are live, with the pellet value unchanging)



Sorry that it's a picture, just by far the fastest for me to grab, and I'm busy getting the next iteration of stats ready. This is the data for the graphs I posted earlier (the CSG is currently being shown on my graph, hence why it's grey in this image).

Pellet damage is calculated with the formula Damage*Scale^PelletsHitNum. Bear in mind the first pellet will be PelletsHitNum 0, so the first two hits will always do the same damage. Also of minor note is damage is calculated as an integer, so floor any values that formula throws out.

Awesome! Thanks a lot.