Upcoming Weapon Balance changes

[Kewlin 692]

7 hours ago, Kempington said:

~snip~

 

Could not have said it better myself, though I would also add a longer equip time to the HVR.

 

 

7 hours ago, Kempington said:

However, could you clarify the H9-Curse change? It doesn't have any horizontal recoil. It has practically no recoil at all. Is this an error?

 

I thought this too until I actually went into the game to test it, but the H9-Curse actually does have a notable amount of horizontal recoil to be honest.

 

Does that mean the gun should get buffed? By no means, the gun is already tied for best SMG.

[Unclean 45]

1 hour ago, Faunblut said:

And... where the F is the needed N-Tec nerf? Would need less damage or accuracy.

honestly, I prefer to see the N-Tec, OCA, PMG, and NSSW to be the standard at which to bring the other weapons up to..

 

 

Nerfing everything into the ground would hurt this game dramatically. Giving more options on the way you play can only help

[Kewlin 692]

9 minutes ago, Unclean said:

honestly, I prefer to see the N-Tec, OCA, PMG, and NSSW to be the standard at which to bring the other weapons up to..

 

 

Nerfing everything into the ground would hurt this game dramatically. Giving more options on the way you play can only help

 

Agreed, I always consider the N-TEC kinda' the standard of balance.

[vsb 6170]

1 hour ago, Kewlin said:

the gun is already tied for best SMG.

hm

[CookiePuss 5373]

1 hour ago, Kewlin said:

the gun is already tied for best SMG.

 

4 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

hm

hmm

[RespectThis 121]

19 hours ago, ViIlain said:

Can the 'Scoped' N-Tec variants get a buff? They have bad ads accuracy when moving for seemingly no reason compared to the regular N-Tec. Is there a reason for this, because I don't think it has any other benefit over the regular N-Tec either, just this handicap.

The scoped Ntec actually has a 5m higher minimal effective range 75m compared to the base ntec which is 70m (neither of these including Improved Rifling). So you're sacrificing the ads mobility for less damage drop off at extreme ranges.

[Akito 29]

On 7/6/2018 at 1:44 PM, Sadira said:

say goodbye you dirty quickswitchers

 

when there's a will, there's a way lmao

[CookiePuss 5373]

2 minutes ago, Akito said:

 

when there's a will, there's a way lmao

yeah, people will still quickswitch... the "how" will all depend on the new numbers

[professionalgamer 32]

1 hour ago, Akito said:

 

when there's a will, there's a way lmao

hardscope hvr for max damage, throw perc anywhere = insta kill

[Xandra94 14]

nice 

[XXXXXXXXXXX 9]

15 hours ago, Kempington said:

Here's my main concern.

 

You're introducing a lot of intricate mechanics to these weapons, that an average player in the game will have no knowledge about, because it isn't explained in-game at all. It's all well and good us knowing about these changes, in a brief sense, but what about the average joe who plays this game, but doesn't necessarily reads the forums. How will he know how the weapon behaves? Sure, you could argue that he could work it out as he goes along, but what if he gets frustrated by it and refuses to use the gun because it doesn't work like he expects? Just a thought. I'd say make sure these changes are documented appropriately in-game, not just in the intro-screen patch notes.

 

Let's talk about the elephant in the room, the HVR.

 

From a balancing perspective, I have to paraphrase what the previous weapon balance guy once told me. This was during a discussion we had to make the HVR-762 not have the ability to equip purple mods on. Essentially, changing the way one weapon behaves in a category with a limitation that the others don't have will confuse players when using the weapon, since they'll have certain expectations on how the weapon will perform.

 

This suggested change isn't much different from banning purple weapon mods on the HVR. Since no other sniper is going to have this accuracy-damage penalty, the HVR will feel clunky and weird. Veterans won't really care, but newer players who expect the weapon to be dishing out tons of damage, won't understand why it's so inconsistent, if they choose to fire just a moment before minimum accuracy is achieved.

 

However, conversely, this change might not do anything at all to the HVR. I would ask kindly that we know more about how this damage penalty will perform and what sort of damage will be lost when the gun isn't fully accurate. I admit, I'll be making an initial reaction to these values, but I will also make an additional post after testing, so you can see the before and after thoughts on this change. I don't want to condemn it now and say it's a bad idea, but it might be nice to see what our thoughts are from the way its described.

 

My honest fix for the HVR is to make it behave more like a turret. It's a big, heavy sniper that can remove players from a gunfight for up to 15 seconds at a time. It's an area-of-denial weapon. In a sense, it can be compared more to the SHAW, than the Scout or other snipers. With this reasoning, make it take longer to setup and acquire accuracy,

 

Let me jot this into notes:

 

• Take longer to acquire minimum accuracy when first equipped. Increase the delay from 1 second to 1.5 seconds?
• Increase the maximum bloom of the weapon. Since you can control its snap-in rate and accuracy recovery rate, this shouldn't be a limitation anymore.
• Larger accuracy penalty if the player moves at all, even in marksmanship mode. Focus the emphasis on being completely still when taking the shot. It's not a mobile weapon.
• Add a 1 second delay to the HVR regaining accuracy from any source. This includes, running, moving in marksmanship mode, jumping, etc.
• Maybe add a small accuracy penalty to the HVR when players change stance from standing to crouch?
• Remove the crosshair when hipfiring the weapon.

 

Sounds harsh? It should be. The gun is the second most powerful hit-scan weapon in the game and can change the tide of a gunfight in a single shot. I feel the above changes would force players to play a little more carefully when using the weapon and would potentially allow players better options on closing the distance against these players. As it currently stands, it's risky to close the distance on an HVR, due to how mobile it is and how easy it is to snap-fire shots in with it. If you slow this process down and make it more defensive (like the SHAW), I feel this may encourage other long range options, without making the HVR completely useless.

 

 

Now then, the shotgun changes.

 

I don't know if this is necessarily a good idea. I understand that players may feel the weapons are inconsistent at times, but I don't think that's a fault of the design. I think that's more the hit-registry on the server that's screwing them. With this in mind, is this change meant to be balanced around the server's inconsistent hit registry with shotguns? I want to hear why you felt this change was necessary.

 

Again, this issue revolves around not have enough information to go on. IF we could get an idea on how much extra damage we'll get from "grazing shots" (how much extra damage the initial first pellets will deal), that might be beneficial. As it stands, this will either make shotguns the kind of CQC again with very little options against them, or make no change to them whatsoever.

 

I feel that the pump shotguns require the player to be skilled and keeping their target in the centre of their cross-hairs, but will still allow for some yield, due to the spread. I don't necessarily disagree with the change, but I'm more concerned about the repercussions that this may bring to some of the other shotguns.

 

Let's take the NFAS "True Ogre" for example.

 

The true ogre, in some cases, feels like it breaks the hit registry in the near vicinity. This causes opposing forces to potentially miss more shots than expected, while the nfas spams them down. If this "grazing shot" comes into effect, this might inadvertently buff the true ogre to silly levels, where trying to kill this guy will require out-ranging them.

 

Let's not forget the CSG.

 

The CSG and the JG I feel are pretty well versed against each other. The JG has a higher potential to 2-shot up close and is slightly more forgiving in that category, whereas the CSG has the ability to comfortably poke players slightly further out. This change might make the CSG's "poking" ability that much more potent, meaning SMGs might get short changed here when trying to oppose these players.

 

I agree that shotguns are difficult to balance, but I feel that they're in a pretty good spot presently and this change isn't necessary. However, I'm still interested to see how much of a difference it makes.

 

 

 

I will not make an intial thoughts post about the specific changes you're making to the list of weapons below. I'll reserve that for after I've tested them.

 

However, could you clarify the H9-Curse change? It doesn't have any horizontal recoil. It has practically no recoil at all. Is this an error?

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by 23k

[Todesklinge 143]

Do you can keep more than 2 Hits of the HVR 762 with Kevlar 3?

 

 

The two hit Bug is not good

 

[Unclean 45]

15 minutes ago, Todesklinge said:

Do you can keep more than 2 Hits of the HVR 762 with Kevlar 3?

 

 

The two hit Bug is not good

 

what bug?

 

Kevlar 3 makes it to where you have 1300 health

 

2 shots from an HVR does 1700 damage.. So you die

[Kino 1]

Interesting. The HVR change sounds... interesting. Though, I'm kind of disappointed with the lack of any Yukon nerf. Lately I've been killed less by quickswitching, but more by them relying on deleting me with a Yukon.

 

[Unclean 45]

4 minutes ago, Kino said:

Interesting. The HVR change sounds... interesting. Though, I'm kind of disappointed with the lack of any Yukon nerf. Lately I've been killed less by quickswitching, but more by them relying on deleting me with a Yukon.

 

loot boxes make money ;)

[ForgottenSniper 4]

8 hours ago, Kewlin said:

Does that mean the gun should get buffed? By no means, the gun is already tied for best SMG.

lets keep the rating of gun viability to the golds, please.

 

 

Manic, OCA, Whisper, PMG, PMG-SD, OCA-SD, Cap40 

so the curse is kinda tied for last with the tommy and aces

[Kewlin 692]

2 minutes ago, ForgottenSniper said:

lets keep the rating of gun viability to the golds, please.

 

 

Manic, OCA, Whisper, PMG, PMG-SD, OCA-SD, Cap40 

so the curse is kinda tied for last with the tommy and aces

 

Oh boy, he said I'm not Gold, how original and accurate.

 

The Curse is just as good as the OCA, sorry.

[Similarities 226]

8 minutes ago, ForgottenSniper said:

PMG-SD

 

 

We don't talk about the PMG-SD. Ever.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Similarities

[Excalibur! 207]

I can bet my patootie that people that complains about quick switching never tried it.

When you finally try it yourself and see how hard you will get rekt then maybe youll stop crying over smart things.

[kukki 27]

21 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

...Ever since the "advanced weapon characteristics" were introduced more weapons fell victim to mechanics which a player will normally not expect. This makes gunplay as a whole less fun, because knowledge from other games doesn't translate well into APB and vice versa.

...

APB's original gunplay was great because it was simple. ...

19 hours ago, Kempington said:

...

You're introducing a lot of intricate mechanics to these weapons, that an average player in the game will have no knowledge about, because it isn't explained in-game at all. ...

Let's talk about the elephant in the room, the HVR.

...

• Take longer to acquire minimum accuracy when first equipped. Increase the delay from 1 second to 1.5 seconds?
• Increase the maximum bloom of the weapon. Since you can control its snap-in rate and accuracy recovery rate, this shouldn't be a limitation anymore.
• Larger accuracy penalty if the player moves at all, even in marksmanship mode. Focus the emphasis on being completely still when taking the shot. It's not a mobile weapon.
• Add a 1 second delay to the HVR regaining accuracy from any source. This includes, running, moving in marksmanship mode, jumping, etc.
• Maybe add a small accuracy penalty to the HVR when players change stance from standing to crouch?
• Remove the crosshair when hipfiring the weapon.

 

Sounds harsh? It should be. The gun is the second most powerful hit-scan weapon in the game and can change the tide of a gunfight in a single shot....

 

These are very good points from veterans who know how the game works better than anyone. That's how you improve the game, not by letting consumers feel like they're participating, but by listening to constructive ideas sprouting out of knowledge achieved with experience.

 

[CookiePuss 5373]

19 minutes ago, kukki said:

These are very good points from veterans who know how the game works better than anyone. That's how you improve the game, not by letting consumers feel like they're participating, but by listening to constructive ideas sprouting out of knowledge achieved with experience.

 

How dare you not add Todesklinge to your quotes.

 

SMDH

[kukki 27]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

How dare you not add Todesklinge to your quotes.

 

SMDH

There're 10 pages of replies, after reading one good one, I must reply. Quoting two people, that's a lot of work. 3? People have jobs.

[Todesklinge 143]

5 hours ago, Unclean said:

what bug?

 

Kevlar 3 makes it to where you have 1300 health

 

2 shots from an HVR does 1700 damage.. So you die

 

For what need the HVR 1700 Damage?

 

1250 Damage is enough.

 

 

[vsb 6170]

2 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

 

For what need the HVR 1700 Damage?

 

1250 Damage is enough.

 

 

because no one would use the hvr if it only did 625 damage

[CookiePuss 5373]

7 hours ago, ForgottenSniper said:

lets keep the rating of gun viability to the golds, please.

 

 

Manic, OCA, Whisper, PMG, PMG-SD, OCA-SD, Cap40 

so the curse is kinda tied for last with the tommy and aces

Jokes and insults aside, Kewlin knows a metric fuck-ton about APB. 

 

Maybe ask him why he thinks what he does... you may learn something.