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Spillra

The current gunplay is shit

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Posted (edited)

I've never struggled this much to play this game.

I'm not talking about winning mission or getting kills. But I'm trying to max another character and i just cant.

I try to find something in this game that feels fun to play but everything has been nerfed beyond the point of being playable.

 

The balance between weapons is fine, sure. But the fact that everything has been nerfed with a  the mind set "lets just add bloom" more or less.

With the TTK increasing and the accuracy decreasing has just left most weapons feeling slow and clumsy.

 

Can we at least try to move the gun play towards how it was. Maybe not QS:ing hvrs but at least bring it back towards the more arcade shooter feeling it had back then?

Edited by Spillra
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it's not fun when you have to use between 5-15 shots to kill one person, and that one person is spamming medsprays too or using kev it just makes the game even slower. i'm here for quick in and out matchs taht are fun and action packed. not some 3rd person call of duty in the city

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43 minutes ago, Spillra said:

but everything has been nerfed beyond the point of being playable.

 

The balance between weapons is fine, sure. But the fact that everything has been nerfed with a  the mind set "lets just add bloom" more or less.

With the TTK increasing and the accuracy decreasing has just left most weapons feeling slow and clumsy.

 

Can we at least try to move the gun play towards how it was. Maybe not QS:ing hvrs but at least bring it back towards the more arcade shooter feeling it had back then?

 

38 minutes ago, cowhorseman said:

it's not fun when you have to use between 5-15 shots to kill one person, and that one person is spamming medsprays too or using kev it just makes the game even slower. i'm here for quick in and out matchs taht are fun and action packed. not some 3rd person call of duty in the city

Straight facts. Too bad the game is handled by people who have some sort of phobia when it comes to dying in a PvP game, so they make things overall slower than they should be just to see the respawn map a bit later.

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yes just adding more bloom sucks it just artificially slows ttk but I think ttk is to fast anyway most guns kill in 1 second or less which means if you aren't bad at the game you'll always kill when you get the drop on a player[bad for 3rd person games makes camping 2 powerful](unless you know we have the game running at sub 30 tick and have crap servers and garbage collection which lasts longer than the avg ttk of most weapons). Fix all the crap and you'll find that the ttk is actually too fast. 

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2 hours ago, Spillra said:

Can we at least try to move the gun play towards how it was. Maybe not QS:ing hvrs but at least bring it back towards the more arcade shooter feeling it had back then?

probably not happening, orbit seems to have a harsher stance on the classic rock-paper-scissors apb balance, preferring to force weapons into their desired roles by hard capping their top end performance

 

if orbit would stop caving to community pushback every time they changed too much maybe their balance preference would work out, but until then we're stuck at the boring halfway point

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balance wise, i prefer the current state more then it was before. In good hands, even with the current bloom, top tier guns like ntec, obeya still feels op. (ps. im not saying they must be nerfed)  

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3 hours ago, LilyRain said:

 

Straight facts. Too bad the game is handled by people who have some sort of phobia when it comes to dying in a PvP game, so they make things overall slower than they should be just to see the respawn map a bit later.

you can see the respawn map faster if the last thing you see is a OSMAW rocket

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Spillra said:

I've never struggled this much to play this game.

I'm not talking about winning mission or getting kills. But I'm trying to max another character and i just cant.

I try to find something in this game that feels fun to play but everything has been nerfed beyond the point of being playable.

 

The balance between weapons is fine, sure. But the fact that everything has been nerfed with a  the mind set "lets just add bloom" more or less.

With the TTK increasing and the accuracy decreasing has just left most weapons feeling slow and clumsy.

 

Can we at least try to move the gun play towards how it was. Maybe not QS:ing hvrs but at least bring it back towards the more arcade shooter feeling it had back then?

Bring it back to 2012.

 

Also bring back the menu from then with the old music. The file is still there it's used in character creation. Or at least bring the old music into the abortus we have now as login menu.

Edited by Sniperturtle

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5 hours ago, cowhorseman said:

you can see the respawn map faster if the last thing you see is a OSMAW rocket

LOL

 

#BringBackOldOSMAW (No rev timer nor high alarm noise, just rocket)

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, cowhorseman said:

it's not fun when you have to use between 5-15 shots to kill one person, and that one person is spamming medsprays too or using kev it just makes the game even slower. i'm here for quick in and out matchs taht are fun and action packed. not some 3rd person call of duty in the city

it's also not fun when your opponent peeks you from the corner and minttk you and you have no chance to react because his weapon is so accurate that he lands every shot on you. Remember old ntec? Maybe oca 0.63 sec ttk? In reality the game was slower due to players didn't feel a freedom of a movement and people played more passively with an idea how to not get in a bad situation where you can get minttk in jumpshot with ntec or oca with its incredibly broken ttk.

Edited by gremlen
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As predicted, the game is now ruined. Thanks to the company who doesnt understand the game and listens to the majorty of suggestion which are done by silvers who wish nerf upon every weapon they are killed by. Great work apb community. Enjoy your ruined game. I hope it dies soon. 

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4 hours ago, Preme said:

As predicted, the game is now ruined. Thanks to the company who doesnt understand the game and listens to the majorty of suggestion which are done by silvers who wish nerf upon every weapon they are killed by. Great work apb community. Enjoy your ruined game. I hope it dies soon. 

yes the silvers are listened to  😆😆

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On 4/3/2022 at 8:53 AM, gremlen said:

it's also not fun when your opponent peeks you from the corner and minttk you and you have no chance to react because his weapon is so accurate that he lands every shot on you. Remember old ntec? Maybe oca 0.63 sec ttk? In reality the game was slower due to players didn't feel a freedom of a movement and people played more passively with an idea how to not get in a bad situation where you can get minttk in jumpshot with ntec or oca with its incredibly broken ttk.

i prefer that gameplay because not only can you kill and get killed fast, everyone you are playing against uses their brains to avoid dying so easily.

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Posted (edited)

Legit never had issues adapting to the changes and -not spraying-. Pretty much every gun in the game performs better via bursts and tap firing even at top end play. I will include the OCA/PMG/shaw in this as well, because I've found it's better to -stop firing and re-aim- over just spraying many times.

 

The idea that the bloom has ruined the game is a false one. People just don't want to take a moment, and aim properly, you know, via recoil AND BLOOM control. I feel the people complaining about the bloom just want another COD or CSGO spray and pray recoil control shooter where you can set up a macro for the recoil on every weapon and go. Or they want to spray the entire time like the atac/oca/pmg except with "every other weapon" and get great results.

 

My ONLY complaint about the bloom, is that sometimes it seems that shots that should be in the reticule, at times fire outside of it even with an enemy standing still. Other than that, I really have no complaints, and it could even be explained that it's because the reticule accuracy is at 10m and not further.

 

Bloom has always existed in APB, and both G1 AND LO had nerfed weapons by increasing bloom, because that was the only way to rebalance them.

 

Increasing TTK makes things worse in CQC, we saw the effects of the IR re-balance test/changes. Increasing ttk -feels bad- unless every weapon has those changes done to increase the base .7 ttk to something higher, and just increasing TTK or recoil, does little in terms of APB's accuracy when tap firing at mid range. Especially when you're trying to balance -midranged- weapons. This means you reduce the ROF arbitrarily, which feels bad, increase recoil, which has little impact, or increase bloom per shot, which is the only realistic way to balance mid-ranged weapons in APB so that they aren't lasers.

 

Gun balance in APB atm is honestly, the most balanced it's ever been. Even with the bloom changes, because the bloom changes have effectively balanced midrange combat to a -reasonable- ttk, No more -always lazer- obeya at 60m -at min ttk- as often no more ntec spray that melts everything in cqc and up to midrange. Mid range combat in APB, was never balanced at .7-.8ttk, its balanced closer to 1.3s, and snipers are balanced at 1.3-1.7.

 

The bloom is necessary to keep mid-range combat balanced. To remove it would be suicide, without first removing the capability for weapons to shoot *past* their max damage distance.

 

No, Reverting to 2012 or 2013 is not a -good idea- either. There's a lot of balance changes that were necessary through the years, especially to weapons that were -added- after 2012. The only thing I liked from back then was laughing as i ran out of "bullet range" of enemies. But the weapons being lasers up to then was not very fun nor engaging.

 

1 hour ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

i prefer that gameplay because not only can you kill and get killed fast, everyone you are playing against uses their brains to avoid dying so easily.

If you want that, remove car spawners and spawn choices instead. People would start using their brains again. The game got dumbed down with their additions, and it's not even a weapon/ttk issue. Oh i died? Cool i can spawn here now, that's way better than my last position. People don't avoid death, because half the time it's a better choice to just run in and die and respawn.

 

I think people also forget that most of the people who actually care about not dying a lot, and were the heavily "competitive" players, left APB. That gameplay isn't going to come back without heavy changes and the population coming back.

Edited by Noob_Guardian

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On 4/2/2022 at 4:14 PM, MonkaS said:

yes just adding more bloom sucks it just artificially slows ttk but I think ttk is to fast anyway most guns kill in 1 second or less which means if you aren't bad at the game you'll always kill when you get the drop on a player[bad for 3rd person games makes camping 2 powerful](unless you know we have the game running at sub 30 tick and have crap servers and garbage collection which lasts longer than the avg ttk of most weapons). Fix all the crap and you'll find that the ttk is actually too fast. 

When the servers are functional, the ttk is way too fast. Currently it's like your ghost shooting, but your ammo still gets used.

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10 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

 

The idea that the bloom has ruined the game is a false one. People just don't want to take a moment, and aim properly, you know, via recoil AND BLOOM control. I feel the people complaining about the bloom just want another COD or CSGO spray and pray recoil control shooter where you can set up a macro for the recoil on every weapon and go. Or they want to spray the entire time like the atac/oca/pmg except with "every other weapon" and get great results.

 

 // Problem with bloom, especially too much bloom, is that it artifically adds undesired randomness to fights, meaning you can never truly rely on your skill to get consistent TTK's. This is why the OSCAR is seen as so OP, as it has no bloom increase, and sure you can still get somewhat shafted by rng, if you are good enough aim-wise you can realistically get more TTK's with that gun then any other gun in the game, hence there is also no suprise to why it is also one of the best feeling, and best performing guns in the game. Bloom should be a secondary balancing measure, infact, i'd rather have all guns be laser guns like in MW2019 then this mess we have here, atleast there if you are good enough you can always rely on your aim to win.

 

Gun balance in APB atm is honestly, the most balanced it's ever been. Even with the bloom changes, because the bloom changes have effectively balanced midrange combat to a -reasonable- ttk, No more -always lazer- obeya at 60m -at min ttk- as often no more ntec spray that melts everything in cqc and up to midrange. Mid range combat in APB, was never balanced at .7-.8ttk, its balanced closer to 1.3s, and snipers are balanced at 1.3-1.7.


// There's a reason this game is so dead, the insanely stale meta is one of them. A quick TLDR to why, we "lost" guns in their respective catagory, with the OBIR nerfs everyone plays OBEYA, with the NTEC nerfs everyone plays OBEYA or just car rushing with CQC's. NTEC is still kinda strong, but why use it when you have the Ursus or Obeya at hand? 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, BlatMan said:

When the servers are functional, the ttk is way too fast. Currently it's like your ghost shooting, but your ammo still gets used.

it isn't only the servers though the garbage collection lasts longer than the the avg ttk of many guns which if you experience it during a gun battle its very likely you'll lose that gun battle. overall game has to much randomness caused by bad performance of client and server.   

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18 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Gun balance in APB atm is honestly, the most balanced it's ever been.

the meta is narrower than its ever been, aside from the introduction of a few of the blatant cash grab legendaries

 

it feels like orbit is so focused on squashing the meta (impossible) that they're neglecting the engagement factor, and as a result they're failing hard at both

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, glaciers said:

the meta is narrower than its ever been, aside from the introduction of a few of the blatant cash grab legendaries

 

it feels like orbit is so focused on squashing the meta (impossible) that they're neglecting the engagement factor, and as a result they're failing hard at both

this. 2014-2016 was around the best time honestly I saw way more variety back than almost every secondary gun was used besides the colby snr and almost every primary gun was used both shotguns, every rifle, every AR, every SMG, and every sniper rifle.

Edited by MonkaS

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7 hours ago, MonkaS said:

it isn't only the servers though the garbage collection lasts longer than the the avg ttk of many guns which if you experience it during a gun battle its very likely you'll lose that gun battle. overall game has to much randomness caused by bad performance of client and server.   

True. 200ms just for the garbage collection to finish, then another 200ms or so for the game to catch up. An easy fix would be to manually trigger it. They could do one big dump at the end of missions, but I guess longer missions would cause crashes. Could run it just after death. It would look a bit buggy, but better than having it run during combat.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, glaciers said:

the meta is narrower than its ever been, aside from the introduction of a few of the blatant cash grab legendaries

 

it feels like orbit is so focused on squashing the meta (impossible) that they're neglecting the engagement factor, and as a result they're failing hard at both

The meta has always been NTEC, HVR, and OCA/PMG, with edgy carbines/oscars sprinkled in. I don't even mention the atac because i've never even considered it a "problem" weapon except when it first came out. The other issue is that the game has -fewer players- than it used to as well. When you had 500 players on joker, there was certainly a wider variety of weapons. When you have sub 150, you're going to have a vastly lower pool of weapons.

 

It has little to do with engagement in gunplay. Most people quit not because the guns/gun clunkiness, but because they get steamrolled, find a newer/better game, cheaters (hardly an issue anymore imo), and general wierdness of a 3rd person game and "how did he know i was there, wtf why cant i ever flank etc etc" that comes with being a 3rd person game, spawns being garbage (getting spawned on/car spawns), item movement exploits (no really, you have no idea how shitty it is for players to experience the medium item exploit and never be able to -catchup- to people who either mastered it or macro it, we take it for granted but it's shit), lack of hit registration, etc.

 

I'd personally be fine with buffing weapons to be more laser-like, at the cost of increasing their TTKs, and increasing the "base" .7 ttk for all weapons higher, but then by doing so mid-range combat becomes faster, and i don't think that's a "good" thing.

 

15 hours ago, Tenginima said:

Problem with bloom, especially too much bloom, is that it artifically adds undesired randomness to fights, meaning you can never truly rely on your skill to get consistent TTK's. This is why the OSCAR is seen as so OP, as it has no bloom increase, and sure you can still get somewhat shafted by rng, if you are good enough aim-wise you can realistically get more TTK's with that gun then any other gun in the game, hence there is also no suprise to why it is also one of the best feeling, and best performing guns in the game. Bloom should be a secondary balancing measure, infact, i'd rather have all guns be laser guns like in MW2019 then this mess we have here, atleast there if you are good enough you can always rely on your aim to win.

 

 

 

Both right and wrong. Bloom adds randomness for those attempting to reach min ttk -AT THE COST OF ACCURACY- it's meant to be that way. Oscar is dumb strong because its mobility and it being an out of mm weapon that can fire up to 40m without issue (it's also why joker carbine and PMG is seen as dumb af and on par with being annoying), not so much because it has no bloom. Though it is a factor.

 

 OSCAR is on par with cqc weapons except that its ttk is higher, though people complain about it more because its mobility no bloom accuracy, if they reduced its overall accuracy it wouldn't be an issue. The easiest way to "fix" the oscar is to make it an "in marksman" weapon, rather than being so accurate out of marksman. It wouldn't need a heavy nerf to the out of mm accuracy. However, it's certainly the biggest reason people complain about it, and it gets conflated to it having no bloom.

 

NTEC has a faster burst/tap ttk than oscar, but oscar can dance around the ntec. OCA can do well against it, but oscar has a glitchy animation which makes it harder to track. Most people who face oscar complain about the glitchy and quick strafe movement it has. If it wasn't as effective at that, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. I'm not advocating to give it bloom either, but making it accurate up to 20-25mm out of mm, then "needing" in mm, seems like a fine balance for it.

 

I rely on my aim to win, and I rarely have issues with bloom. I actually lose more kills in-game to recoil, than I do bloom. But that's because i know how to control bloom and generally maintain the best accuracy to ROF for a weapon, where-as recoil is more random than bloom and needs to be factored in -per shot-. Bloom will always be -static-, set on a set amount of shots, at a set amount of time with a set amount of recovery. It's manageable, and easily factored into gunplay. Recoil, is completely random, and is not. Both provide good balance in their respective ways. My favorite weapons for fun, are the "ODIN" series, are they lazers? Yes, but they have a high cqc ttk (.79, roughly on par with the oscar which is .825, yet "oscar" is the broke one and odin series is underpowered) The reasoning is simple, accuracy/mobility differences. Mobility being large overall accuracy being the other. Bloom can be ignored for the comparison.

 

15 hours ago, Tenginima said:

There's a reason this game is so dead, the insanely stale meta is one of them. A quick TLDR to why, we "lost" guns in their respective catagory, with the OBIR nerfs everyone plays OBEYA, with the NTEC nerfs everyone plays OBEYA or just car rushing with CQC's. NTEC is still kinda strong, but why use it when you have the Ursus or Obeya at hand? 

Obir was broken so i don't really pity it it felt horrible to play against. Though they could buff it slightly, it really shouldn't be back at full strength. NTEC is fine as is, it's still one of the best f2p weapons in the game and there's really no changing that fact. (isn't that sad, that a weapon that's been nerfed arguably to the ground, is still "better" than most of the other weapons in its class? lel even when all the other weapons got buffed, should tell you plenty about its strength and why it got nerfed in the first place)

 

obeya has -almost- always been strong except for the few months where it was garbage tier, Ursus has been used heavily ever since it came out as well. There's really no arguing with that. Obeya has been reworked -a lot- to put it somewhat in a decent spot. Ursus is just dumb because its almost just like old style ntec with just a little more recoil. It was used a little less, when NTEC had 5 shots to kill (or was it added after the nerf as a cash grab? I cant remember).

 

There's no arguing with how strong a 5 htk weapon is in APB in comparison to 6htk weapons. It's why the carbine, fbw, and NTEC, had received the same treatment to nerf their damage. I'm surprised Obeya didn't get the same treatment, but that's probably because its .84ttk  and less out of mm accuracy and lack of mobility is it's balancing factor, that and they wanted it to stay in the same damage falloff range.

 

I do feel that a lot of people don't get the finer points of why so many things were -rebalanced- to the way they are now. Like, a lot of weapons were very blatantly buffed, a LOT of weapons in a vain attempt for them to be better, or at least be seen as -usable-. A LOT of weapons good and very usable now, but they are seen as -garbage- because it takes a "little more effort".

 

 

rant

 

Hell, all people claim to see are NTECS and OBEYAS, but ATAC's are supposedly OP but haven't been touched in ages? what? FAR was "broke" for a while there, but neither it nor the NTEC got altered in any way in like 1-2 years but suddenly it's "op" because people SLEPT on it, then went, oh look, a weapon with less mag, faster reload, slightly faster ttk and identical accuracy recovery stats to the star and only marginally more accurate, but its "op".

There's still weapons that can be buffed, absolutely. Like odin series, that full auto carbine, and a handful of others. But let's be honest. If a weapon like the FAR can be considered "overpowered" despite -almost- being a STAR reskin, then people clearly are sleeping on a LOT of viable weapons due to bias. Trust me, I know this because I -own- the majority of the weapons in game, and have used each extensively.

The problem with using them arises when you face premade sweats with 1 hvr, 2 ntecs and a carbine/osca/-insert meta cqc weapon- and it just feels bad to play. Because you feel like you -have- to do something to compete on their level, and even then most people will struggle and likely -lose- even when using the meta weapons against them. You face a team like that and you cringe and go to whatever boring lazy gun you can. doesn't matter what,  the entire game feels horrible when playing against them, and then the gun gets called garbage.

 

PDW is pretty good, fairly viable at sub 15m against an fbw for example. But I'd prefer not using it if an enemy has a .45, and it doesn't feel great when you're at 20m against an FBW and can't do anything with your sidearm. Sadly, that's where the issue of -gun -vs -niche- and -overlap- come into play. You can have weapons that operate great in X or Y niche, but they're overshadowed by others that can simply do -more-.

 

Another example, Tyr/Hel accuracy gain vs OCA - Feels like garbage sub 10-15m. Feels really good 15-40m if you've reved it up to shoot. (though it's fun to outshoot ntecs at that weird 20-35m spot once it's at full accuracy) But why use it when the OCA is just going to dominate you unless you have a good cqc sidearm (fr0g/.45/NFA) that can handle it? Used to feel especially bad once the OCA got "buffed" to .64s ttk)

 

Edited by Noob_Guardian

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1 hour ago, BlatMan said:

True. 200ms just for the garbage collection to finish, then another 200ms or so for the game to catch up. An easy fix would be to manually trigger it. They could do one big dump at the end of missions, but I guess longer missions would cause crashes. Could run it just after death. It would look a bit buggy, but better than having it run during combat.

or just have it trigger after a mission starts/ends memory shouldn't fill up in the time it takes for a mission to end unless the game is just that unoptimized or like you said just after death but that'd make it so players with faster pc's would respawn quicker so might want to have some kind of tie to the time it takes to clear memory

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I don't know what is so hard for you guys.

 

I just shoot when the crosshair goes red and people die.

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4 hours ago, MonkaS said:

or just have it trigger after a mission starts/ends memory shouldn't fill up in the time it takes for a mission to end unless the game is just that unoptimized or like you said just after death but that'd make it so players with faster pc's would respawn quicker so might want to have some kind of tie to the time it takes to clear memory

not even, game is 32 bit

u can try changing the gc interval a bit longer in config files but u'll crash everytime because the current interval is basically pushed to the limit of what the game can hold in memory (which is around 4GB for the whole game because 32 bit)

even tried running the game on a ramdisk thinking it'd lower the gc time (gc dumps ram back to disk, so technically from ram to ram should be pretty fast because ramdisk)... exactly the same as a sata ssd...

currently running on a pcie 4.0 nvme and it's still very much a problem

tho ur idea should work when they make the game 64 bit. technically that would mean the more ram u have, the longer the interval can be before u eventually make the game crash, but the longer it'll take for the gc to run (bigger freezes)

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