LO if you have not tried to fix the cheater epidemic, why do you believe the new engine will bring back players?

[Gentix 1]

iTs sO haRd tO chEaT in tHis 10 yeaR olD gamE eVeN thO eRrYthaNg is puBlic, tHere nO sOft becauSe oF bAtlLeYe teKnolodGy (beSt anti cheAteR) ))

 

Ur jUst bAd hahA!!

[Musul Man 60]

OP does have a point. There is a cheater epidemic since ever. It now shows itself more than ever before because the cheaters never left the game while the rest of the players did, specially after Battleye was installed, many players weren't happy with this and left. Also, many cheaters did come back again cheating because of the massive unban, which was a double edged sword. I doubt that there were that many false banned players vs. banned cheaters, so I think that from all those that came back to play because they were unbanned were mostly the hackers, which is a loss. 

So now with less players but more cheaters, the epidemic problem is really an epidemic, while back in the day of lets say 2011 the same amount of cheaters was not that noticeable since there were a lot of real players in between, and people got even matches also thanks to matchmaking.

And thats another problem people confuse here a lot. Matchmaking is a problem today because there are no players to match! And also another confusion people make here is that there is no freaking huge skill gap. The only skill gap is learning to use your weapon, aim good, like any other game, but mostly know the map, so you can predict the enemy movement which often looks like wallhack. But high rank closet cheaters in this game have full access to the game's old engine and have created extremelly customizable private cheats, that I have often been offered to use by some clans (clans that as of today have never been banned), that allow you to cheat and look like if you are just superpro at the game by doing a combination of smooth aimbot with camera acceleration and aimbot bloom.

Many of them even go around with the cheat on hold/deactivated and when they are up against a match they cannot win they suddenly activate the cheat and start owning everyone, suddenly all shots land, the guy's prediction of your movements becomes extremelly accurate and their awareness of sorroundings as well as their reaction time suddenly is instantaneous.

 

Closet cheaters in this game have become such a norm that they became the community, and created a toxic ambience. They themselves were the high rank gold players, often streamed, and created the hate towards any player that was less than gold, and also created the automatic disregard of anything said from anyone that was less than gold which were of course all players except themselves. Also whenever someone said "hacks" in any post they would just start trolling and flaming, making fun of the guy. This went on for years and it stuck, now everyone does this. The most active members of the community in the social media (forum, reddit, steam, streamers) were and still probably are to some extent, the same closet cheaters that get the dopamine rush by winning in the game and watching those killcount numbers grow.

 

And this is one big problem, because the most important members of the community, to Little Orbit, are the players that put money in the game. But if these guys that spend 500$ a month on the game also spend 50$ extra to pay for a private cheat subscription that makes them pro at it, they do it.  And the playerbase is so tiny (200ish players in jericho for example) that actually banning them would hurt the income and kill the game. And if the numbers of the statistics that were posted on these forums some time ago are right, we'd have to ban a lot of players since according to it there is 50% of enforcers hacking, and 40% of criminals. And actually last time I played I did not find these numbers exaggerated, sadly, because I was constantly seeing in every match at least one cheater in the best case scenario, although normally it was more than one and almost always on the enforcer side, also many cheater clans back in business, and many names I've known through the years to be absolute cheaters and/or that were banned for it. And also seeing the guys that offered me to cheat still playing made my blood boil, so I left the game and check the forums once every so often to see how it is evolving.

 

So basically, LO can't ban them or the game will die. But if they don't ban them the game will die, even with the engine upgrade. Thats what I think. I believe this game can't be saved, but time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

 

One thing is for sure is that this guy got it right, even if he is kind of trolling:

3 hours ago, Gentix said:

iTs sO haRd tO chEaT in tHis 10 yeaR olD gamE eVeN thO eRrYthaNg is puBlic, tHere nO sOft becauSe oF bAtlLeYe teKnolodGy (beSt anti cheAteR) ))

 

Ur jUst bAd hahA!!

Edited July 12, 2020 by Musul Man

[cowhorseman 441]

I've only seen atleast 1 legit cheater. it was an enfo of name i can not say or spell, but any time i would spawn in he would stun me right off the bat before my screem could load, and if i got luck and try to fight him he would littery fly up into the air and kill me in .3 seconds. in other words take some time and watch people you can tell when there cheating and when there not. i know some times it seems like there walling or what not but you really have to take the time use to guns and understand them and the areas. like some players may not be cheating in fin or wf they know the map becuase they been around for 5-6 years and these maps have had zero change to them in that time, and the guns have had very few changes to make them handle differnt and people will learn to adjust to keep using that gun. or you can claim hacks pout tk and not play the mission and make everyone hate you. its up to you dude

[CookiePuss 5376]

1 hour ago, Musul Man said:

And this is one big problem, because the most important members of the community, to Little Orbit, are the players that put money in the game. But if these guys that spend 500$ a month on the game also spend 50$ extra to pay for a private cheat subscription that makes them pro at it, they do it.  And the playerbase is so tiny (200ish players in jericho for example) that actually banning them would hurt the income and kill the game. And if the numbers of the statistics that were posted on these forums some time ago are right, we'd have to ban a lot of players since according to it there is 50% of enforcers hacking, and 40% of criminals. And actually last time I played I did not find these numbers exaggerated, sadly, because I was constantly seeing in every match at least one cheater in the best case scenario, although normally it was more than one and almost always on the enforcer side, also many cheater clans back in business, and many names I've known through the years to be absolute cheaters and/or that were banned for it. And also seeing the guys that offered me to cheat still playing made my blood boil, so I left the game and check the forums once every so often to see how it is evolving.

 

So basically, LO can't ban them or the game will die.

I don't know who told you this nonsense, but that's all it is.

Edited July 12, 2020 by CookiePuss

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, Musul Man said:

And if the numbers of the statistics that were posted on these forums some time ago are right, we'd have to ban a lot of players since according to it there is 50% of enforcers hacking, and 40% of criminals.

these are some ridiculous numbers your throwing around without anything to back them up

 

the only thing close to these percentages i can think of is the ffbans.org statistics, which only show what percentage of banned cheaters play each faction

[BlatMan 708]

Hmm, now I'm curious which faction has more hack missions.

[CookiePuss 5376]

It was cool to have had this data back in the day.

[HighSociety 148]

3 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

It was cool to have had this data back in the day.

Wait there was a citadel server before they merged obeya and patriot to citadel? 

 

 

[vsb 6171]

2 hours ago, HighSociety said:

Wait there was a citadel server before they merged obeya and patriot to citadel? 

no

 

where are you getting that from?

[Uru! 50]

so everyone has already had their go with this post but i felt this needed to be addressed

On 7/10/2020 at 10:09 PM, Omega101 said:

Making the game look better will never bring people back into a cheat riddled game ask combat arms, they tried to do the same thing you are. That game died because they tried everything except getting rid of the cheaters.

pretending as though hackers in combat arms were its only problem is incredibly disingenuous, especially when you're talking about a pay to win nexon game (and i will say that most of its p2w aspects were addressed EVENTUALLY, but it was long after its playerbase had dwindled). it also did not age very well mechanically or aesthetically, was incredibly grindy and insanely poorly balanced to boot. the only fun to be had in that game was fireteam, and even that was a janky product of its time.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 7/12/2020 at 7:38 AM, 404 said:

borus whines about jump carrying items being an exploit but i bet he jump kicks doors all the time lol

Pretty sure early G1 GM's stated jump kicking doors was okay. Jump kicking a door is far less gamebreaking than moving medium items at sprint speed. It shouldn't even be a relation it's so different.

 

G1 had never stated as such for the medium item exploit. In fact, i can't recall them saying anything about heavy items either before fixing heavy item movement.

On 7/12/2020 at 12:12 AM, Flaws said:

That is a mechanical exploit which many other popular games have to some extent and you cannot get banned for it, especially if the devs are unwilling to fix it.

 

If anything, moving at sprint speed with medium items should be a part of the game. Who in their right mind would carry around a briefcase the way they do in APB when they are being shot at? Anyone would just hug it for example and make a run for it. 

Last I checked "exploits" ARE bannable, they're called exploits for a reason. G1 had been lazy in regards to anything gameplay breaking wise, and they were extremely half assed on a lot of things, from fixing broken locations, to balancing missions. Hell, they even broke overtime instead of fixing it.

 

What should happen is carrying lets you whip out a pistol, but still move at that speed, unless you activate some dumb new consumable to sprint with the item with.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[BlatMan 708]

Guess I should be banned for touching Jericho wheels.

 

[magik 184]

On 7/12/2020 at 4:41 PM, 404 said:

these are some ridiculous numbers your throwing around without anything to back them up

 

the only thing close to these percentages i can think of is the ffbans.org statistics, which only show what percentage of banned cheaters play each faction

And if I remember correctly the FFbans.org stats show a significant number of re-rolled accounts, which we wouldn't know the true number of.

[R3ACT3M 489]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:14 PM, Musul Man said:

So basically, LO can't ban them or the game will die. But if they don't ban them the game will die, even with the engine upgrade. Thats what I think. I believe this game can't be saved, but time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

 

Can agree and disagree, Im sure LO have the funds to keep the game afloat for a while even if said cheaters were banned. And think of the game this way, Someone cheats > New player gets mad > quits game > player base doesn't grow > less income 

LO Does best to ban cheaters > Player gets mad because matchmaking is currently bad > quits game > player base doesn't grow > less income

LO Does best to ban cheaters + Reworks how matchmaking is handled > Player is given a fair chance to play the game > Enjoys the game and decides to play more > purchases premium > See grind go way down > Player has more fun and decides to put some G1C into their character to make them look good > Realize they would like to have a perma gun in their arsenal and purchase it with G1C or JT > More Income

Cheaters are like a tumor they should be cut out or stopped as soon patootie possible to prevent more damage.

But another problem from this game doesn't stem from cheaters alone, it's that this game and it's weapons are pretty different in behavior compared to other shooters and when a new player plays with that default star (without knowing it's true potential) it is easy for them to say the person is cheating because they simply do not know why they failed.

(p.s. I hate runners in this game ((People who take the objective and run away with it)) can we a get a system implemented where if a player tries to run away with the obj the game forces it to be dropped when a certain distance away from the base? Like a zone system once it enters this zone it cannot exit causing it to be forced dropped.)

2 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

LO Does best to ban cheaters + Reworks how matchmaking is handled > Player is given a fair chance to play the game > Enjoys the game and decides to play more > purchases premium > See grind go way down > Player has more fun and decides to put some G1C into their character to make them look good > Realize they would like to have a perma gun in their arsenal and purchase it with G1C or JT > More Income

p.p.s this was my experience XD

[zMax 7]

On 7/11/2020 at 11:59 AM, rooq said:

Yeah I agree with that.

The first few days of BattlEye was awful with cheaters in almost every mission, as well as the toxicity being at an all time high.

Who would have thought that the people crying about non-existent cheaters on the daily install cheats once they can get their hands on them. Surprise surprise.

 

I guess Little Orbit deployed changes to BattlEye at some point, because I have yet to see a single cheater since then.

Right now I honestly don't see a difference between EAC and BE. You could have swapped them out and I wouldn't have noticed.

 

^ This.

The community is small enough that people should be aware of this by now.

It's extremely obvious to see when a new player is using cheats, especially now that spotter has been nerfed.

Wow, so if I commit to creating a private third-party program, is that okay? If the EAC is identical to the BE, why does it hear the exchange? BattlEye are only problems in most games implemented. Can you see the Jericho server because it is empty? the answer to that question is "BattlEye", Simple, BattlEye is punishing legitimate players, real cheaters using private third party programs that make the party, if you like this BattlEye, excuse me, but I will call you from dumb.

[HighSociety 148]

6 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

(p.s. I hate runners in this game ((People who take the objective and run away with it)) can we a get a system implemented where if a player tries to run away with the obj the game forces it to be dropped when a certain distance away from the base? Like a zone system once it enters this zone it cannot exit causing it to be forced dropped.)

I hate it too and thankfully many ppl just let it there... BUT its a game mechanic on purpose, otherwise it would be a capture point or graffiti.

So take out ur Osmaw or Alig and take what the game offers to u.

[R3ACT3M 489]

9 hours ago, HighSociety said:

I hate it too and thankfully many ppl just let it there... BUT its a game mechanic on purpose, otherwise it would be a capture point or graffiti.

So take out ur Osmaw or Alig and take what the game offers to u.

Not really if some sort of zone system was made to prevent runners it would be a lot less frustrating. If an alternative could be made what if outside the zone the further away you go the slower your car becomes? Or how about the timer stops or even slows down (wouldn't be the best solution).

I think some new end game stuff needs to be developed

 

what if...matchmaking puts two games together right? so like 4 vs 4 in one match and another 4 vs 4 on another and when both games reach the final obj it becomes an 8 vs 8. Could be cool 

[CookiePuss 5376]

36 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

Not really if some sort of zone system was made to prevent runners it would be a lot less frustrating. If an alternative could be made what if outside the zone the further away you go the slower your car becomes? Or how about the timer stops or even slows down

You could also try adjusting your loadout and playstyle, chase and or cut off the runners, and get that win. 

[R3ACT3M 489]

6 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

You could also try adjusting your loadout and playstyle, chase and or cut off the runners, and get that win. 

sometimes though they do it late into the match, they pulled the objective off our point when we had 11 points and they had 12 so they ran with it (in waterfront) and they took it all the way to the other side of the map... there was nothing that could be done with the obj being 400m away and only 20 seconds to deliver it.

Edited July 16, 2020 by R3ACT3M

[CookiePuss 5376]

8 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

sometimes though they do it late into the match, they pulled the objective off our point when we had 11 points and they had 12 so they ran with it (in waterfront) and they took it all the way to the other side of the map... there was nothing that could be done with the obj being 400m away and only 20 seconds to deliver it.

It is frustrating when a match is effectively over before time runs out.

I'm sure we've all been there.

[R3ACT3M 489]

14 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

It is frustrating when a match is effectively over before time runs out.

I'm sure we've all been there.

I love having 1 minute to deliver a heavy objective and both team's dropoffs are 1km apart

[Sophiie 50]

they are trying their best, have you not been following their posts?

 

imma take a page from the early 00's and say this: READ THE STICKIES.

 

also i'll reiterate what i said on the unofficial discord:

 

Quote

you gotta remember that not only are they a small team, but they also have no obligation to tell you when they take action. they also can't tell you when they take action against whom, only that they will investigate and if they find any wrongdoing they will take appropriate action

GMs are glorified hall monitors, as far as I know. they're basically the SPCM, but with a slight bit more of power. (actually, SPCM used to have their power before a specific set of individuals abused the program)

which actually lead to the SPCM being dismantled except for 1 other person, who fucked off after some time

only paid employees can terminate accounts temporarily or forever afaik

they also have access to a large swath of internal tools used to make their decision

just because you don't see it [bans] happening doesn't mean they aren't happening.

also, i noticed a lot less people online in the last month as soon as battleye was introduced, and around the same time it was turned to automatic perma bans, there was also a lot less people ingame

beyond that, there's like 2-3 reddit posts about 'i was banned unfairly because i called someone gay, and [other words i can't put in discord without getting monkatos'd] until they reported me'

paid cheats all have their detection status as 'questionable'

there's reports on <snipped> and other sites about triggerbotters 'getting away with macros for years' and suddenly got hammered

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Sophiie

[mattskoii 67]

On 7/11/2020 at 1:09 PM, Omega101 said:

bottling

idk if that has actual meaning 

[N66 97]

People have already mentioned this already, but the upgrade is not only for player direct simple experience, it allows integrating all sorts of systems a lot easier, including anti cheat, possibilities for better player match making, dynamic population merging, relying on better systems for their tools for content creation, probably even higher limitations on some things

 

With that said, the problem you experience is not due to cheaters only, they are a small minority in this game, the cheater epidemics are gone and now there are just a few here and there, what you see is extremely old players, extremely skilled, playing with a lot less experienced players, things they do may seem like blatant cheating when it is most often not.

 

This can be fixed with better matchmaking in my opinion, the problem is not even that, the system may be very good, but the population to choose from is extremely small, if they manage to make the dynamic migration of population among servers, the matchmaking will be at least a tenfold better, as the system will have a pool of all available players for missions, and merge them together in a single server to play, so their skill levels will be a lot closer, combine that with (IF) larger community, and the pool will be even more diverse and filled with newer players.

 

LO seem to be playing their cards right on the technical challenges, the challenge that remains to be seen is if they have a solid plan of bringing new players and keeping them with new content, but most likely, they wouldn't invest so much in the technical if they don't have a plan for player base too, that's where the return of investment is, afterall.

[111M1kA111 2]

On 11.07.2020 at 08:22, Flaws said:

Предупреждение ничего не сделает против обмана. Каждый игрок, который использует любой вид взлома или мошенничества, знает, что он будет строго наказан, если его поймают, и он готов пойти на такой риск и понести последствия. В отношении любых высказываний на почве ненависти и преследований должно быть очевидно, что это недопустимо и также будет сурово наказано. Это то, для чего предназначены Условия обслуживания (ToS) и Лицензионное соглашение с конечным пользователем (EULA). Конечно, некоторые игроки могут быть незнакомы с общими правилами в большинстве онлайн-видеоигр или они могут «забыть» в самый разгар, но это не лишает законной силы правила и не делает вас невосприимчивым к ним. 

 

Со времени перехода на Battleye, безусловно, наблюдается множество читеров, что неоспоримо. Battleye - просто плохой античитер по сравнению с EAC, но на самом деле он не так плох, как вы описали, по крайней мере, пока.

Во-первых, вам нужны доказательства, подтверждающие ваши претензии игроков на «ограждение» или «ботов». Любой игрок может сказать что угодно, и он делает это, в большинстве случаев очень необразованные игроки с более низким уровнем квалификации, которые просто страдают от плохого подбора игроков в игре, сопоставляются с высококвалифицированными игроками, которые моют им пол. Это одна из самых популярных достопримечательностей APB.

 

Возможность прыгать с несущими средними предметами - это не чит, не хакер или какой-либо другой тип бота. Это «эксплойт» игровой механики, который вы легко можете сделать, просто используя мышь и клавиатуру, вам не нужно никакого программного обеспечения, читов, хаков, макросов или ботов для достижения, и поэтому он не запрещен. Кроме того, они не могут «переносить предмет быстрее, чем вы можете преследовать их», потому что эксплойт позволяет вам перемещать предмет только со скоростью спринта, по которой вы уже двигаетесь, пока вы бегаете спринтом (и гонитесь за ними). Вы больше не можете делать это с тяжелыми предметами, вы могли бы сделать это много лет назад, но лучшее, что вы можете сделать сейчас, это поднять и уронить его, чтобы пропустить немного места, но вы больше не можете эффективно делать это в воздухе ,

 

Интересно, что ты имеешь в виду под "отслеживать тебя через здания". Во-первых, если кто-то взламывает стены и смотрит на вас сквозь стену, вы, вероятно, не узнаете об этом, если не увидите их положение и не сможете сказать, что они движутся к вам, предварительно наговаривая вас или предварительно увольняя вас. не имея каких-либо твердых знаний о вашей позиции неоднократно (следите за пользователями Spotter, модом Tagger и пользователями Firework Launcher). Кто-то может быть взломом стен, и вы никогда не узнаете, есть ли у них опыт в этой области. И если вы просто имеете в виду, что игроки стреляют в вас сквозь стены, где они не могут нанести вам урон, это никак не поможет им, поэтому я не уверен, о чем вы здесь.

 

Я не понимаю, что означают "bobfire bot" и "fasthandswap bot". Вы не можете изменять какие-либо характеристики / значения оружия, поскольку они находятся на стороне сервера, даже если вы установили какой-либо тип читов или макросов, поэтому вы не можете заставить их стрелять быстрее, чем при нажатии на него. Конечно, такой щелчок потребует высоких механических навыков, эти игроки, как правило, просто опытнее с этим оружием. Нельзя сказать, что нет игроков, которые запускают роботов и макросов сказали оружие, но их не так много, как вы утверждаете. Вы можете сделать оружие, такое как карабинный огонь Joker SR15, очень быстро, когда привыкнете к выбору времени между выстрелами, чтобы максимизировать скорость стрельбы, особенно с Cooling Jacket на нем. Это касается любого полуавтоматического оружия и даже взрывного оружия, такого как OBIR или OSCAR.

 

Несмотря на это, вы упомянули, что вернулись для участия в бета-тестировании, но не упомянули, сколько времени длился ваш перерыв в работе APB. Возможно, вы просто ржавеете после долгого времени отсутствия в игре, и вам необходимо заново изучить некоторые аспекты?

я видел убийство за 1 секунду с помощью NTEC ... ( сможешь удивить меня? )